KBN's Guide to Combat Spec (or: how to sentinel tank)

[jeremyofmany]

You still get all of the hits from MS, the animation takes 3sec but the final hit comes around 2.8sec. You can see from the parse I included there are 6 hits of MS...granted the offhand can miss at times, but all 6 are recorded.

That does make sense. I know also from experience that I can use the next ability about 200ms before MS is finished channeling and it does not say "Interrupted".

I'll have to review my logs in more detail.

[Sweeete]

Hey KBN what do u think about dulfy's rotation and opener?(for marauder in carnage) Edited February 9, 2014 by Sweeete

[GrandLordMenace]

Not sure about sentinels but as far as guardians, dulfy's DPS guides are just... horrifying...

[AngusFTW]

Well.. clicking as a combat sentinel/canage marauder (like in the dulfy rotation vid) which when played right has close to 50apm really isn't recommended... unless you can click like chuck norris.. Edited February 9, 2014 by AngusFTW

[ML_DoubleTap]

Hey KBN what do u think about dulfy's rotation and opener?(for marauder in carnage)

 

It's basically the same.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Not sure about sentinels but as far as guardians, dulfy's DPS guides are just... horrifying...

 

Horrifying seems a bit exaggerated. Guardian is one of the few DPS roles I don't know fairly well, so I can't speak to that specifically. For those that I know, while I may disagree with small points here and there, the guides are pretty solid overall. Certainly better than Noxxic which a lot of folks use and would absolutely help a vast majority of the people I see in PuGs and GF.

[Mr_Fuzzle]

It's basically the same.

 

Almost. The opener recommended in the Dulfy guide recommends using Zen before Zealous Strike (that's a no-no), and using TST before Precision Slash along with using Assault during the first Precision Slash window. Basically the site recommends wasting Zen Charges outside the PS window for the opener. As anyone who's played this spec extensively knows (or anyone with some form of logic for that matter) that's simply going to be a DPS loss. The ideal opener is the one listed in this guide.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Almost. The opener recommended in the Dulfy guide recommends using Zen before Zealous Strike (that's a no-no), and using TST before Precision Slash along with using Assault during the first Precision Slash window. Basically the site recommends wasting Zen Charges outside the PS window for the opener. As anyone who's played this spec extensively knows (or anyone with some form of logic for that matter) that's simply going to be a DPS loss. The ideal opener is the one listed in this guide.

 

You mean this one that's mentioned in KBN's guide?

The first phase of the opener should look EXACTLY like the following:

 

Leap > (Inspiration + Valorous Call + Zen) Zealous Strike > Precision Slash + Blade Rush > (Relic + Adrenal) Master Strike > Twin Saber Throw

 

You know, the one that says to use Zen before Zealous Strike? Did you even read KBN's guide? He even specifically speaks to your point in this thread.

 

Also, you obviously didn't read the Dulfy guide. TST is activated outside the window, but it's hit is within the window. Similarly, Dispatch is used before PS, but it's hit is affected by the Precision buff. Surely, anyone that plays this spec extensively knows that Dispatch and TST can be activated before PS but have it land inside the window

[Mr_Fuzzle]

You mean this one that's mentioned in KBN's guide?

 

 

You know, the one that says to use Zen before Zealous Strike? Did you even read KBN's guide? He even specifically speaks to your point in this thread.

 

Also, you obviously didn't read the Dulfy guide. TST is activated outside the window, but it's hit is within the window. Similarly, Dispatch is used before PS, but it's hit is affected by the Precision buff. Surely, anyone that plays this spec extensively knows that Dispatch and TST can be activated before PS but have it land inside the window

 

Yes I have read the guide. Just letting you know, that opener involves using Zen during the GCD of Zealous Strike, so you don't consume a Zen charge with Zealous. Using a mild amount of brain power, one can figure out that Zen charges should be used on harder hitting abilities at the beginning since they are all off cooldown right off the start. Wasting one on Zealous just makes absolutely no sense. Using TST before Precision could be a matter of preference, but using Dispatch or TST before Precision Slash is unreliable at best (discussed elsewhere in this thread) and is not recommended by KBN for use during raid conditions. This is even more unreliable during Zen as you have even less time to activate Precision Slash before TST lands.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Yes I have read the guide. Just letting you know, that opener involves using Zen during the GCD of Zealous Strike, so you don't consume a Zen charge with Zealous. Using a mild amount of brain power, one can figure out that Zen charges should be used on harder hitting abilities at the beginning since they are all off cooldown right off the start. Wasting one on Zealous just makes absolutely no sense. Using TST before Precision could be a matter of preference, but using Dispatch or TST before Precision Slash is unreliable at best (discussed elsewhere in this thread) and is not recommended by KBN for use during raid conditions. This is even more unreliable during Zen as you have even less time to activate Precision Slash before TST lands.

 

Regarding Zen charges,

 

There's no need. Combat starts the instant you leap, and accelerating Zealous Strike isn't a wasted charge since it gets you to your burst faster. It also gives you the opportunity to beat the Ataru strike without missing the last attack in the first window, which is really nice.

 

There really isn't a way to "waste" Zen charges. I don't even hesitate to Strike under Zen later on.

 

He was replying to this,

Isn't one charge of Zen "wasted" if put before Zealous Strike? I usually pop it inbetween Precision Slash and Blade Rush. Or am I missing something?

 

So, again, you can disagree, but citing KBN when he actually suggested the exact same thing would be incorrect.

 

As far as Dispatch and TST it's perfectly reliable on the dummy and in a fight with low movement. I generally only use the trick when MS is up and Zen isn't so I can get Dispatch, Master Strike and Blade Storm all under a non-Zen window.

[TradeLA]

As far as Dispatch and TST it's perfectly reliable on the dummy and in a fight with low movement. I generally only use the trick when MS is up and Zen isn't so I can get Dispatch, Master Strike and Blade Storm all under a non-Zen window.

The dulfy guide may be flawed but is absolutely right about Dispatch right before Zen. The timing is not so difficult that you can't hit it virtually every time and the results are worth it. TST is more dubious. As the Dulfy writer mentions, the timing has to be closer, and you risk having to let gore sit unactivated for a fraction of a second before TST activates. Even if you nail it, it is not the big dps boost that Dispatch is, and on this one, I agree with KNB, especially in raid conditions, it's more likely than not an overall dps loss and a distraction from more important things.

[Jedi_Max]

KBN, whats about 1 points in Merciless Zeal instead of Fleetfooted in our skill tree? It will be 6-36-4:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bcoZGGMRRroMMIRZs.3

The best parse in Combat was made with this spec and stats that you talking about (69 crit rating, 99,76 Accuracy Rating) .

1 point in Merciless Zeal cause Cauterize a chance to heal you and that makes an extra proc of Dread Forged Focused Retribution relic, as it procs separately from healing and damage. In fact, it procs twice from healing and damage when Cauterize crits and heal you and increases your DPS a bit.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Jedi_Max
More exact build and stats (I wrote a little bit wrong first time)

[JKnightJ]

KBN, whats about 2 points in Merciless Zeal instead of Fleetfooted in our skill tree? It will be 7-36-3:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bcbZGGMRRroMMIRZc.3

The best parse in Combat was made with this spec and stats that you talking about (138 crit rating, 99,76 Accuracy Rating) .

2 points in Merciless Zeal cause Cauterize a chance to heal you and that makes an extra proc of Dread Forged Focused Retribution relic, as it procs separately from healing and damage. In fact, it procs twice from healing and damage when Cauterize crits and heal you and increases your DPS a bit.

 

I've done about 15 dummy parses with this build since reading this entry. I noticed that my average parses are now 3.5K+. Some luck with the crit rng resulted in parses > 3.6K.

Edited February 25, 2014 by JKnightJ

[KeyboardNinja]

KBN, whats about 2 points in Merciless Zeal instead of Fleetfooted in our skill tree? It will be 7-36-3:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bcbZGGMRRroMMIRZc.3

The best parse in Combat was made with this spec and stats that you talking about (138 crit rating, 99,76 Accuracy Rating) .

2 points in Merciless Zeal cause Cauterize a chance to heal you and that makes an extra proc of Dread Forged Focused Retribution relic, as it procs separately from healing and damage. In fact, it procs twice from healing and damage when Cauterize crits and heal you and increases your DPS a bit.

 

In general, it is a DPS gain, but not a really substantial one. You're going to get about three or four additional relic procs in a 5 minute run at the dummy. That's certainly better than no additional procs, but it isn't the huge jump that the self-heal is for gunslingers/snipers.

 

I've parsed with the power proc on the 1 mil dummy and gotten nearly a 3.7. I've parsed without it and gotten…nearly a 3.7. It's all in that Dispatch crit percentage. :-(

[Phuchs]

For those off you who look at this as greek because you are a marauder, heres it translated at KBNs appreciation. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=724509

[Omniscientearl]

Ooh, when did this get stickied? Edited March 26, 2014 by Omniscientearl
Spelling on a fake word.

[ML_DoubleTap]

While they're working out RNG from so many specs, maybe it's time for Combat's RNG to go...

 

14 Ataru procs and 33 seconds between Opportune Attacks: http://www.torparse.com/a/629462/time/1395881357/1395881391/0/Log

 

Didn't it used to be a guaranteed chance back in 1.x days...can't remember for sure? I'd think something like a 100% chance on Blade Rush with an ICD of 9sec would work well.

[JasonNH]

Wasn't sure if there was a better place for this question, but figured I'd ask it here.

 

While gearing up my combat sentinel and swapping in power/surge mods at every chance, I've noticed that my accuracy has now dropped down to under 100% (99.5%, I believe). Do you think at this point it would be worth swapping any might augments for accuracy ones to get it to 100% again, or is it not worth the tradeoff? I suspect it may be a preference of median vs. maximal potential DPS, similar to crit. What's a reasonable number to expect for total miss percentage when doing a dummy parse? Thanks.

[BlazeRaigo]

Hey KBN! What can you say about gearing in combat spec? A little bit How much critical melee rating in your gear now and how much you planning for 81 gear? Edited April 2, 2014 by BlazeRaigo

[IInox]

just specc'ed into combat and afeter reading this guide (it's awesome, gj man) I was thinking, why you don't put TST as default on second window instead the BR? it deal more dmg and hasn't a cost. (I see you use it just if we don't have BS's proc) maybe cause it doesn't build centering?

 

Thanks

[g_mK]

just specc'ed into combat and afeter reading this guide (it's awesome, gj man) I was thinking, why you don't put TST as default on second window instead the BR? it deal more dmg and hasn't a cost. (I see you use it just if we don't have BS's proc) maybe cause it doesn't build centering?

 

Thanks

 

Using TST does work in the second window since it does more damage than BR, however you have to be careful if you still don't have the OA proc yet.

 

your window would look like this PS>BS>BR>BR>focus builder>PS>Dispatch>TST>BS

 

Wasn't sure if there was a better place for this question, but figured I'd ask it here.

 

While gearing up my combat sentinel and swapping in power/surge mods at every chance, I've noticed that my accuracy has now dropped down to under 100% (99.5%, I believe). Do you think at this point it would be worth swapping any might augments for accuracy ones to get it to 100% again, or is it not worth the tradeoff? I suspect it may be a preference of median vs. maximal potential DPS, similar to crit. What's a reasonable number to expect for total miss percentage when doing a dummy parse? Thanks.

 

Last time I talked to KBN current BIS would be 2 X 78 initiative enhancements and 1 Accuracy augment.

[IInox]

Using TST does work in the second window since it does more damage than BR, however you have to be careful if you still don't have the OA proc yet.

 

your window would look like this PS>BS>BR>BR>focus builder>PS>Dispatch>TST>BS

 

 

 

Last time I talked to KBN current BIS would be 2 X 78 initiative enhancements and 1 Accuracy augment.

 

yes on the second window but on the guide kbn didn't say to use TsT by default but BR instead. that is my doubt.

[KeyboardNinja]

yes on the second window but on the guide kbn didn't say to use TsT by default but BR instead. that is my doubt.

 

I need to clarify that section. TST is a better filler in the second GCD of the second window, but as Don said, you need to already have Opportune Attack proc'd. Also, on a raid boss, I find myself moving TST around a fair bit because it gives me more mobility as well as the added AoE.

[Memo-]

Just a quick question on what people think I should do with my gear. AMR.

 

As you can see, I have 3 pieces with Accuracy, which puts me at 101.5 melee accuracy. Would you recommend dropping one piece for Surge, and swapping one Might Augment for an Accuracy one? To rephrase, do you think losing 1% extra accuracy on offhand hits and 32 Strength is worth it for 94 more Surge (from 658 to 752.) Or would someone even suggest taking Alacrity instead of Surge?

 

Also, recommendations on Crit are appreciated, I'm at 193 currently, but I have BiS enhancements on alts that could be swapped in to drop it / get it higher.

 

(I parse at around 3550 on the dummy currently, had one Nefra NiM with 3600.)

[g_mK]

You will want to replace a might augment with an accuracy augment and swap an initiative enhancement for adept. You can play around with crit, I believe the sweet spot is around 130-150. Also the accuracy for OF is not that important since most of your dps comes from the MH.

3550 dps is in line for full 78 gear.