Gear check For Group Finder, becoming a necessity.

[ninjonxb]

I run FPs and HMs all the time. And I do worry about my gear. I look at the gear requirement for an HM that says 148. I then check my gear. hmmm I got everything at 156 except one piece that is 140. Am I still ok to go? I sure as hell dont want to wipe a group. Also no gear rating is showing on implants, relics, or earpiece. Mine are all purple and level 53 but does that mean I am good to go or not?

 

I have since fixed the 140 piece to 156. But still what about the pieces that dont have a rating?

 

It is recomended to have an average of 148. So add up all of the numbers for your gear and divide. SO with one 140 and all 156 you should be fine.

 

As far as the implants, relics, and earpiece. I would be suprised if a number was not in the files somewhere and it was just not shown. However if they were to implement a system like this, they could add numbers.

[chuixupu]

If people are all in 146 or even black hole level gear that's perfectly fine....however, I HAVE seen people turn up in level 55 *Operations* wearing level 49 blues/greens and no relics. We actually took the the guy through the whole instance because we felt like being kind and helping him out,(he was one pug in a guild group), but we weren't really happy about it. He wasn't a total noob or anything, he just didn't want to bother to get a little gear with coms and flashpoints before making a group carry him. Edited August 16, 2013 by chuixupu

[DarthTHC]

Health is an indication of their relative gear level. I inspect anybody with less than 25k. If you show up with only 19k there will be words. (Polite ones! I swear )

 

If your gear only gives 19k health you're just not going to be able to keep up with the healing or DPS required of a HM55 flashpoint. You might be able to carry a DPS if everybody else is overgeared, but I certainly wouldn't want to try carrying a healer that bad off. If it was a friend I'd make them a set of blue grade 28 mods.

 

End-game is not Casual. While you don't have to be hardcore you really do need to start paying attention. A gear check won't fix stupid, but it'll help ensure that people have the tools to succeed.

 

In my extensive experience running level 55 hard mode flash points as tank and healer, I call BS on this.

 

The very best DPS I ever saw in a flashpoint had under 20k health.

 

You can obtain gear that will let you complete a hard mode flash point - actually contributing to the team while doing so - that doesn't buff your health to high levels. Yes, a tank probably wants really high health. The rest of the roles should focus much more on stats that actually improve their performance, and health ain't it.

 

I do agree with the request for a check in the LFG tool. That check should be that your current spec matches the role you selected and that your gear is of appropriate level and has the appropriate attributes for your class and the role you selected.

[Dragonexadon]

doing so - that doesn't buff your health to high levels. Yes, a tank probably wants really high health.

As a Tank I focus on mitigation over health.

[chuixupu]

Threads like this are what have been keeping me out of the 55 HMs TBH. I'm just back from a year away, dinged 55, have all my gear at 66, but as a tank I have not ran any of the instances. How welcoming would you all be to hear your tank say "I have not done the instances yet, please brief me on the mechanics pre pull" even if I'm sitting on 30k hp?

 

I actually see a tank say this every week, and have never seen a tank get kicked. I'm happier to see someone admit they're new and ask for help than someone act like they know what they're doing when they clearly don't.

 

Worst tank I have seen came in with 24k health. Fortunately that wasn't one of the ones I was a healer for.

[DarthTHC]

As a Tank I focus on mitigation over health.

 

I do that on my Shadow tank too, but health remains important for tanks (and unimportant for other roles in HM flashpoints). There are some fights a tank has to have health to cover.

[DarthTHC]

No, just quested and WZ. TBH it didn't take very long to hit 55 in fully min-maxed Rakata/BH gear. Also never seemed to pick up the FPs while sub 55. Was guildless at the time.

 

When I first came back someone suggested I run the HMs first as a DPS to get the mechanics. Perhaps I am taking this too seriously but after seeing some of the abuse heaped on tanks in WoW...mind, this community isn't the same which is one reason I am back here, but still.

 

Feh, being too sensitive. Will run some tonight and report back.

 

If you're a good tank and just don't know the fights, anyone would be foolish to kick you. Nothing is so hard it can't be taught in about 5 lines of text.

 

If you're not a good tank (i.e. you don't know how to gear, spec, and tank), well, that's an entirely different problem.

[tyranusdarec]

Correction to my previous post. All my gear is 156 as I said. However my implants, earpiece, and relics was wrong. 2 relics and 1 implant are level 50 and 1 implant and the earpiece is level 54. All purple though...

 

Guess I need to go work on them now. Jeez I hate chasing the carrot.

[chuixupu]

Correction to my previous post. All my gear is 156 as I said. However my implants, earpiece, and relics was wrong. 2 relics and 1 implant are level 50 and 1 implant and the earpiece is level 54. All purple though...

 

Guess I need to go work on them now. Jeez I hate chasing the carrot.

 

If you don't like getting gear, most mmos are probably not for you.

I mean, you get gear for harder content. If you don't ever plan on doing hard mode operations or anything, you really don't need to look for better gear.

[PlasmaJohn]

The very best DPS I ever saw in a flashpoint had under 20k health.

I'm less worried about an undergeared DPS than an undergeared healer. If we have to skip the bonus boss, so be it.

 

One of the better tanks I ran with only had low-mid 20's. Why did I agree to continue? Because he was in Black Market & Dread Guard with lvl 50 augs. In other words, a returning player that had a clue. He was also backed up by an overgeared healer.

 

Low health tells me to inspect. If their itemization is competent then I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt assuming the rest of the team can support them. Otherwise, tyvm and g/l.

[discbox]

I've seen level 55 tanks with green level 46 gear in hard mode.

[ImpactHound]

 

The very best DPS I ever saw in a flashpoint had under 20k health.

 

 

Out of curiosity, what did he do that stood out as the best DPS you ever saw? Since we can't see each other's actual damage output.

[hadoken]

Out of curiosity, what did he do that stood out as the best DPS you ever saw? Since we can't see each other's actual damage output.

 

Probably avoid standing in the fire and switch targets quickly. You can also eyeball dps performance by how fast they kill adds.

[Bilirubin]

I actually see a tank say this every week, and have never seen a tank get kicked. I'm happier to see someone admit they're new and ask for help than someone act like they know what they're doing when they clearly don't.

That is good to know that I am not the only one then. I'll see if any guildies are interested in an instance then hit random queue and see what we get.

[DarthTHC]

Out of curiosity, what did he do that stood out as the best DPS you ever saw? Since we can't see each other's actual damage output.

 

He did everything right. He stayed out of the "fire". He attacked mobs in the right order. He peeled mobs off the healer if any ever got that far. He never started a fight, instead waiting until the tank did. He stood and waited patiently while one of the group had to AFK for a couple minutes.

 

On top of all that excellence, everything he jumped onto died quicker than I've ever seen it die.

[Salmonleap]

I hate this in Story Mode, especially the first time I was running Flashpoints. I can understand it in Hard Modes, but it gets ridiculous with some players. They're trying to skip as much as they possibly can, and it ends up taking way longer for all the players to hit the fiddly little jumps in the right spots than it would to just punch through the mobs. And when one player runs off on their "perfect path" without making sure everyone knows it, the party just gets strung out and the chances of at least one player dying and the rest waiting goes way up.

 

Exactly this.^

 

Why is it so hard for people to understand that for a PUG it is almost always quicker to simply clear the instance rather than trying to bypass mobs. Sure a guild-run my know all the jumps and sneaks, but a PUG? Gimme a break.

[Lunafox]

People are all ready prejudiced against people who have slightly lower level gear. They want all uber people to better their own chance at success. So, tell me again, what is the point of raiding..its to better yourself, but if you insist on only uber geared people joining, then how is the weaker player supposed to improve?

 

Gear snobbery. I hates it.

[ninjonxb]

People are all ready prejudiced against people who have slightly lower level gear. They want all uber people to better their own chance at success. So, tell me again, what is the point of raiding..its to better yourself, but if you insist on only uber geared people joining, then how is the weaker player supposed to improve?

 

Gear snobbery. I hates it.

 

Most people who are pugging want the MINIMUM gear that Bioware themeslves says is required. If you look at how gear progression for this game works (ths website under elder gear guide and dulfy both have good guides).

 

Here is a hint though. Whatever you are trying to get geared for. You don't do that thing to get the gear. You do something else before it!

[SteelPiranha]

Wouldn't this gear check cause new issues though? For example, now players will be needing on any/all gear that will help increase their ilvl.

 

Heavy armor users will have the most selection as they can need any piece that drops and equip it to skirt around the ilvl requirement, regardless of stats.

 

Medium can need on medium and light armor.

Light gets stuck with just light armor.

 

This would lead to people having high enough ilvl to que, but their itemization is completely messed up. Now you're probably in a worse position than when you started.

Edited August 16, 2013 by SteelPiranha

[JimG]

There is a vote kick system just for this issue.

 

And an "ignore" option. If someone is woefully under-geared, then we can throw them on the "ignore" list so Group Finder won't match us up with them again.

 

Also, some people have an over-inflated idea of what sort of gear is necessary....for example, people who post in general chat for a level 55 HM flashpoint group and require everyone to be in all 69 gear. Some people think having appropriate gear means being over-geared.

[Ratajack]

Yeah not everybody has *Hours* of spare time to queue multiple times in GF as a dps.

 

Tends to be even more annoying if the FP failed because people

 

1)can't read requirements. ( don't know what requirements mean, and went "whatever" and queued anyway )

 

2)fail to read. ( didn't bother reading the requirements )

 

3)are deliberately not reading hoping that teams carry ppl throughout flashpoints. ( basically leeching. )

 

Unfortunately. one geared 66 guy with 2 odd 72 barrels ( me ) can't carry a whole majorly undergeared PUG through a 55 HM, no matter what cooldowns i pop, no matter how hard I try. so yes, my flashpoint fails, and back to the GF queue for another hour .

 

Same thing for asking to be kicked. Why should I go? you're ( the PUG ) the ones attempting to access content without the gear required ( not reccommended, REQUIRED ) for said content.

 

 

Those that want faceroll speed runs can form their own groups. If you are using the LFG tool, you know up front that you might be grouped with someone who is not optimally geared, or even possibly under geared. Those are the chances you take using LFG.

 

Even if they put a "gear score" requirement in place, you would still have the elitists who want faceroll speed runs demanding that the the player who meets the game's gear score requirement but not the elitists be kicked. Gear checks solve nothing.

 

Your attitude that the other three members of the the group were wrong and you were the only one in the right and that your time is worth more than that of the other members of the group would seem to put you in the elitist group, IMO. Instead of making use of the mechanics in place that allow you to remove yourself from that situation, you are here asking BW to change the mechanics of the game to suit you.

[Ratajack]

Yeah, like walking in a club with a dress-code to dress elegantly. 4 people walk in, one matching the dress-code, the other ones wearing tracksuits. Yeah, of course the bouncers should let in the 3 tracksuits, and the well-dressed one needs to tell the tracksuits that he's going back home cuz he's the only one dressed properly for the club.

 

Wut?

 

More like walking into a club with no dress code or only a recommended dress code, although most of the patrons prefer to lean less toward casual dress and more toward elegant dress style. The one dressed elegantly can choose to remain in the club with the 3 tracksuits, or he can choose to find another club with patrons more to his style.

[Ratajack]

It's not elitist. It's pragmatic.

 

BWEA designed those instances with those gear levels in mind. Can a well-geared group of 3 CARRY an under-geared schlub through? Probably? Should they HAVE to? No.

 

Plus it's simple enough to get the gear by running dailies or "less-than-hard-modes". Not having the right gear (and spec for the role you choose!) is expecting others to carry your sorry behind and therefore lame and pathetic and inexcusable and the game should prevent it.

 

I find it ironic that someone who has repeatedly posted that "players should be able to log in and only do what they find 'fun' " and not have to worry about "working" by doing dailies for credits expects others to do those same dailies to earn the credits to buy the gear or the gear itself.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Ratajack

[norlof]

Wouldn't this gear check cause new issues though? For example, now players will be needing on any/all gear that will help increase their ilvl.

 

Heavy armor users will have the most selection as they can need any piece that drops and equip it to skirt around the ilvl requirement, regardless of stats.

 

Medium can need on medium and light armor.

Light gets stuck with just light armor.

 

This would lead to people having high enough ilvl to que, but their itemization is completely messed up. Now you're probably in a worse position than when you started.

 

This is true, and it happened with WoW as well and people complained out the butt about that too. You had DPS wearing tank gear, Healers wearing DPS gear, DPS wearing healer gear...and you know why? They wanted to up their gear level so they can run the high level stuff. Then people started crying about it when it was exactly what they wanted in the first place!

 

I haven't seen a system in place in any game that works perfectly with the gear requirements. If you know one, please tell me. Point is, its never going to work until someone completely reinvents how people play MMOs.

 

If you want them to put a gear check in, that's fine, but be prepared to cry when someone messes that up too.

Edited August 16, 2013 by norlof

[LordArtemis]

Yeah I don't so much. As a "casual" I still managed somehow to clear NiM KP, HM LI etc. back when it was current content.

 

Or has the definition for "casual" changed from numbers of hours spent in game?

 

Hardcore players play for achievement and reward...direct reward, like gear and the like. They try to max out their stats and become the best at what they do. They are the pro players.

 

Casual players are driven by other pursuits....gear means next to nothing to a casual player, other than appearance and QoL, ease with leveling. Casuals like alternate content, story, take their time leveling and do not take anything too seriously.

 

That is how each group is defined IMO. You can play all day and twice on sunday and still be a casual, depending on what drives you...enjoyment or reward. You can also play rarely but be a hardcore...again, it is what you pursue.

 

Are you a reward and recognition player or an experience and appearance player? That is how they distinguish themselves IMO.

 

So...you can determine what group you fall in based on that criteria if you wish.