Atramar Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 If 3 dps cant kill one operative, who isnt cross heald and guarded, then srsly l2p bro xD Stop spamming your basic attack and use other skills xD dunno why quoted me, that is what I ment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szczypaczek Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 dunno why quoted me, that is what I ment. My bad i thought i quoted that other guy, who was crying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankqull Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) If 3 dps cant kill one operative, who isnt cross heald and guarded, then srsly l2p bro xD Stop spamming your basic attack and use other skills xD use skills at all^^ even spamming base attack would let them kill him. Edited June 28, 2013 by Tankqull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverickmatt Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) I'm not that good at math but thats 3 people trying to kill one operative. And here I thought this was Star Wars, where the Jedi and Sith were the demigod-like characters. Turns out I was wrong. All that matters in Star Wars is James the Imperial Agent/Medic/Operative. He wins and loses battles. Edited June 28, 2013 by maverickmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I bet a lot of the complaints about healers would disappear if warzone designs were improved. Healers are most effective when everyone is within range and no LoS issues. Voidstar is a healer's paradise. Not coincidently that is where most of the stalemates occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 People like to ***** about Operative heals and exfiltrate Bring a Merc to a regular/ranked warzone. Electronet will completely dominate an Op healer allowing the team to focus fire the Operative healer, negating his cloaking abilities which is one of his greatest defensive CDs as a healer. Oh, and root before exfiltrate. Pretty simple. An Op healer's numbers are so high for the same reason a good Lethality Op/Sniper/Madness Sorc/Pyro can top dps charts. Their DoTs are fluff, and the same goes for the healing, it's all fluff healing with a single dominating cast that can easily be interrupted. The Operative really shines once the target gets below 30% and you NEED a TA to active the "spammable" heal. No, it's not on demand, you need a proper rotation to pull it off. Ffs stop b***hing and making up excuses for your poor performance people. However, Merc heals could use a buff /thread I wouldn't call the poison 'fluff'. It's serious stuff now because on ToFN there is always 1+ lobbing around poison, and that will hurt you badly in the long run. The class I fear the most is a leth op now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 'You know a class is OP when people make threads saying it's not' mercs/mandos must be so OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 If 3 dps cant kill one operative, who isnt cross heald and guarded, then srsly l2p bro xD Stop spamming your basic attack and use other skills xD Like a certain Dinchy... But Yoko, you know that ops are OP, but healing is severely overtuned as-is. The trauma debuff (PvP) should be increased to 50% for less stalemates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 the real issue people have is when you have tnak guarding/taunting/peeling for them and another healer cross healing. in that case, yes it takes 3 dps to focus fire, which is fair, since its 3 players on the other side to stack all the guard/taunt/peel/heals. You're still failing to see the big picture. Yes, it takes 3 DPS to focus fire and deal with an Operative/Scoundrel healer who has guard/taunt/peel. Now, throw in a second healer. How about a 3rd? Point being, your team only has 8 players. By your own admission above, it would take at least 6 DPS to effectively remove 2 players from the field under focus fire and coordination. A 3rd healer would take 9 players, which is obviously impossible. This is balanced in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 You're still failing to see the big picture. Yes, it takes 3 DPS to focus fire and deal with an Operative/Scoundrel healer who has guard/taunt/peel. Now, throw in a second healer. How about a 3rd? Point being, your team only has 8 players. By your own admission above, it would take at least 6 DPS to effectively remove 2 players from the field under focus fire and coordination. A 3rd healer would take 9 players, which is obviously impossible. This is balanced in your opinion? he mentioned 2 healers and 1 tank scenario, so yes, 3 dps vs 2 healers and a tank is balanced. 3 dps = 3 interrupts = one healer shut down and other healer has to heal focused healer and a tank who is guarding provided healer. now let's assume that 3 dps are able to switch targets quickly. throw a mezz on second healer and first target will die in 6 seconds. if not, throw another mez/stun. or quickly swap targets and peel healer who is not guarded. considering 67% of people fail to attack marked healers, that is probably to complicated for most dps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sari_ttb Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 he mentioned 2 healers and 1 tank scenario, so yes, 3 dps vs 2 healers and a tank is balanced. 3 dps = 3 interrupts = one healer shut down and other healer has to heal focused healer and a tank who is guarding provided healer. now let's assume that 3 dps are able to switch targets quickly. throw a mezz on second healer and first target will die in 6 seconds. if not, throw another mez/stun. or quickly swap targets and peel healer who is not guarded. considering 67% of people fail to attack marked healers, that is probably to complicated for most dps... U are forgetting 1 major factor with 'just switch targets quick and kill'. Operatives have good CC as well for escapes. Like flashbang, debilitate. Taken into the fact that u cant interrupt their heals (the dot and the surgical probe) and its hard. However i dont think operatives should be nerfed, there should just be more 'anti-heal' abilities. LIke the one that marauder has. And not a measly 20% but mayb a lot for a few seconds so healers cant heal themselves for a few seconds and in that time u haev a chance to finish em off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 U are forgetting 1 major factor with 'just switch targets quick and kill'. Operatives have good CC as well for escapes. Like flashbang, debilitate. Taken into the fact that u cant interrupt their heals (the dot and the surgical probe) and its hard. However i dont think operatives should be nerfed, there should just be more 'anti-heal' abilities. LIke the one that marauder has. And not a measly 20% but mayb a lot for a few seconds so healers cant heal themselves for a few seconds and in that time u haev a chance to finish em off. kolto cloud, 6k total heal over 9 sec 15 sec cd. surgical probe requires TA, so big heal atleast once (or shiv, or proc from kolto cloud) and is only never ending story under 30% which means if you actually got him to 30% one hard stun should finish it, it heals roughly 2k per gcd (3k on crit - maul hits 6,5k on crit and discharge about 6k). FB is 10m range mezz on 45 sec cd, debilitate is one target. another hot is kolto probe, which does (on 2 stacks) 4k healing for 18 seconds. note, my numbers might be a bit wrong since I can't turn game atm. - I write from memory of green numbers. what I would change, would be that trauma is reducing healing recieved AND done. (could last longer too I guess) It would reward traumatizing (lol) healer and target of focus fire (like ball carrier), and both healers on cross healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanchito Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Nothing wrong with that indeed. But 1 single scophealer surviving 2-3 DPS while still being able to heal his team mates in a zerg, that's another story. Of course, you will tell us that DPS are all bads and if they were good then the scophealer would fall. And you will present us a manual with solutions as how to fight a scophealer. But I'm tired of people trying to counter incoming nerfs by fooling themselves that their class is played by the high skilled, while all other classes are played by the bads. The bads then would need to study a manual and play synchronized like premades on TS to stop one single scophealer and this is supposed to be balanced. The most straightforward answer to the game's current situation in PvP is that scophealers are way too strong as a specc and not that they're played by super skillors, while everybody else is a tard who needs to l2p. a few posts further up i actually agreed with scoundrels need a nerf, and said i hope they don't overdo it as they are known to do...i just answered the dude who complained that it takes 3 dps to take down a guarded and cross healed scoundrel....so i suppose your rant was directed at the wrong person? Also i think 2 dps can kill a scoundrel if they are not stupid with their ccs and interrupts. edit: frequently i get trained by some dps, pop everything including medpack and adrenal to get my hp back up, and they leave for another target, now that all my cds are down. 2 mins later once i have all my cds back, they try again... Edited June 28, 2013 by sanchito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanchito Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) ups wrong sorry Edited June 28, 2013 by sanchito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Also i think 2 dps can kill a scoundrel if they are not stupid with their ccs and interrupts. exactly. 1 good dps can shut down the scoundrel from cross healing, and one more can easily kill him. In the case of the guarded/taunted/cross healed scoundrel and running out of bodies to throw at them in a 8 man team, well, thats called a stalemate, and thats called balance. If your 8 man team setup cant produce 4 DPS (or 5 depending on comp) that can focus and use cc effectively to separate and stunlock healers from guards/taunts, then yeah its going to be a stalemate. This game is all about bad DPS players screwing up the metrics IMO. Without good dps all strategy and balance discussion go out the window and healers and tanks seem overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 So which class are you all going to complain about next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 So which class are you all going to complain about next? mercenaries. TCM/Grav doing damage and armour debuff on same time? NERF!<!^64> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidsyrup Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Gonna throw my 2 cents in here although I probably won't come back to this thread. I only have a lvl 27 Scoundrel Sawbones, so I don't have my Emergency Medpac yet, however when playing against them, I find it harder to kill a Sorc healer than Operative. On my Guardian Tank, with almost any healer, I don't try to kill them, I just annoy the living crap out of them. Interrupt, Hilt Bash, Interrupt, Force Shove them away from their team and out of Guard range, Jump Interrupt, CD on Interrupt is finished, Interrupt. When playing as my Sniper, it is SO easy to penetrate Scoundrels. Hit em a few times, blast them with (....names not coming to me) the armor penetration shot that also reduces healing received, interrupt next heal, shoot a little more, Flashbomb. It won't kill them but it will give them a run for their Energy and stop healing teammates. I also shoot them with a Poison Dart so they can't stealth out. Tldr: I have no problems with em, I have problems with people complaining about it even though they don't even TRY to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulzii Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 a few posts further up i actually agreed with scoundrels need a nerf, and said i hope they don't overdo it as they are known to do...i just answered the dude who complained that it takes 3 dps to take down a guarded and cross healed scoundrel....so i suppose your rant was directed at the wrong person? Also i think 2 dps can kill a scoundrel if they are not stupid with their ccs and interrupts. edit: frequently i get trained by some dps, pop everything including medpack and adrenal to get my hp back up, and they leave for another target, now that all my cds are down. 2 mins later once i have all my cds back, they try again... thats the problem though. When I'm in a premade, or at least in an out-of-game voice communication with someone, its easy to take down anyone, as you can speak to each other, and use cc's/interupts in an orderly fashion. Now in a pug, people do not have that advantage, so cc's/interupts are overlapped/wasted, etc. So 2v1 against an OP is not so easy. It has nothing to too with l2p, but having communication. And you cannot expect the entire pvp population to have a premade backing them up. This is the reason OPs are seemingly impossible to kill in normal WZs, as there are less premades in regulars. The folks on here that state they can 2v1 OPs easily are the the ones that neglect to state that the are either in a premade or have voice comm with their partner to do so. They want everyone to thing that their 'elite' for doing so, when they are really doing is just taking advantage of the out-of-game communication alot of people do not have access to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanchito Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) thats the problem though. When I'm in a premade, or at least in an out-of-game voice communication with someone, its easy to take down anyone, as you can speak to each other, and use cc's/interupts in an orderly fashion. Now in a pug, people do not have that advantage, so cc's/interupts are overlapped/wasted, etc. So 2v1 against an OP is not so easy. It has nothing to too with l2p, but having communication. And you cannot expect the entire pvp population to have a premade backing them up. This is the reason OPs are seemingly impossible to kill in normal WZs, as there are less premades in regulars. The folks on here that state they can 2v1 OPs easily are the the ones that neglect to state that the are either in a premade or have voice comm with their partner to do so. They want everyone to thing that their 'elite' for doing so, when they are really doing is just taking advantage of the out-of-game communication alot of people do not have access to. I generally agree with what you say. However, if you are not on voice, just don't give them any resolve as long as they are above 40 - 50% HP is a pretty decent plan. It's not like most premades have a better one Edited June 28, 2013 by sanchito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSpiceSwag Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 everyone in this thread got trolled big time. buttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt......... 5/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limenutpen Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 yes we need a buff. I need some defence skills so I can take all eight players alone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axka Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 I think alot of people here are missing my point. Scouprative healers are OP because people are being stupid. Instead of nerfing them, people should stop being stupid and step up their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I think alot of people here are missing my point. Scouprative healers are OP because people are being stupid. Instead of nerfing them, people should stop being stupid and step up their game. Sorry, you cant fix stupid. You can fix dumb actions or ignorance, but not stupid. Were stuck with these hamsters, and all things in life must come down to the lowest common denominator, so its all but a given that things will be dumbed down rather than expecting stupid people to suddenly become smart enough to properly play and not complain about class balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelodicSixNine Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I think alot of people here are missing my point. Scouprative healers are OP because people are being stupid. Instead of nerfing them, people should stop being stupid and step up their game. Same happened with mercs. Enjoy your nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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