Do something about the operative healers NOW

[kweassa]

Op/Scoundrel healers are fine. No need to fix what's not broken.

 

If there is anything, just for the sake of argument, they're a bit easy to manage with instant-cast heals, and that much more difficult to counter. Perhaps change one of the instant-cast heals to casting type, or tone it down slightly.

 

Have plenty of experience fighting against teams with 2, 3, even 4 healers, cross healing, guarded, taunts, peels etc.. and for the last two years, and in every case where we couldn't overcome enemy heals, it was always our team that had some major problems, due to which, we would meet difficulty in keeping enemy healers under check.

 

As long as the team is functioning, has classes/roles as needed, and has players with at least average knowledge about PvP, Op/Scoundrels are just another one of enemies that can be taken down. Ofcourse, admittedly, things are not always rosy pink when playing with PuGs -- but then, the same applies to the enemies as well. Sometimes they don't have healers, sometimes their healers are inexperienced or plain stupid, etc..

Edited June 28, 2013 by kweassa

[Arkerus]

I would actually take the healer tanks in wow that made that game so unbearable over the operative healers we have now. At least the healers in wow had to choose to heal themselves or a teammate. Ops just hot and dance. Drop the big heals on their teammates but don't even worry about self heals. Think they might run out of resources? Nope. That's not an issue either. Edited June 28, 2013 by Arkerus

[RougeBeaver]

Op/Scoundrel Heals need to be nerfed 50 %. Also, the game needs to auto target Healers with a big red X upon entering a warzone. This will save dps from having to hold up on their smash long enough to identify an healer and mark them. They should also be fitted with bells for those with impaired vision. The warzone Ops leader should have a feature that when activated immediately switches all dps's targets to the healer. Dps will not be allowed to attack anything else as long as this feature is activated.

 

Healers should not be able to move in a warzone without first activating a back up alarm. The back up alarm will sound and big red X target marker will blink for 10 seconds before any movement is permitted, so dps will not be caught unawares of impending movement by the healer.

 

Same team players who are to receive healing, must first submit form SC-1069 in triplicate found under UI controls, for each heal before any healing can be dispensed. Healers are cautioned on using their aoe heals in this regard, as their cast ability will be suspended for 25 seconds if a player receives a heal without having first filled out the required form.

 

Players are reminded that peeling for an healer will cause them to become immobile but attackable for 30 seconds.

 

Lastly, should the above measures fail to result in the death of a healer, the game will automatically strike the healer dead every 2 minutes. This is to done to simulate the accumulated attacks of competent dps should an opposing team be devoid of same, and insure an even flow of warzone deaths.

 

Silly troll!

 

Almost all the QQ in this thread could probably be absolved if people actually learn to play. Check out the operative class yourself sometime and learn its limitations.

 

I'll give you a hint, a single burst-dpser will rarely be able to take down an operative solo. Well...except for marauder, they can do fine if they're not incompetent.

 

If there's multiple healers learn to split and apply mass dps pressure to them all at once. If you can't do that, tough luck. It's not the "OP" operatives' fault you're bad!

 

People are so single-minded it's adorably hilarious. Perhaps your goal should not be to HURR DUR KILL SMASH, but to distract the operative long enough for everyone else to murder their teammates. Even with MY average skill level, a single dps can rarely focus me down no matter what healer I play. Merc, Sorc, Operative, you name it.

 

Learn to play. Stop blaming the operatives. Learn to identify bad luck w/ the randomized team roster. Leave Exfiltrate the f**k alone. How would you like it if there was mass QQ to nerf Force Speed/Charge/Intercede, all of which tend to be even more reliable than Exfiltrate.

 

Instead of endlessly whining for bioware to "fix classes" learn to improve yourself first. (I'm fighting a hopeless battle here, aren't I?)

[kweassa]

I would actually take the healer tanks in wow that made that game so unbearable over the operative healers we have now. At least the healers in wow had to choose to heal themselves or a teammate. Ops just hot and dance. Drop the big heals on their teammates but don't even worry about self heals. Think they might run out of resources? Nope. That's not an issue either.

 

No way;;; In all honesty, the friggin Priests or Druid builds were about the most ridiculous thing I've seen in the history of MMOGs. I've seen them withstand a barrage from 4~5 enemies, even with the heal debuff poison on, and still function well enough to keep the banner-carrier alive.

 

In comparison, just give me one or two skilled mara/sents to support me and the Op/Scoundrel is dead; if being cross healed, add in a smart Jugg/Guardian or Vanguard/PT tank to keep harassing the cross heals.

[MelodicSixNine]

Bring a carnage marauder/combat sentiel with you to the warzone. Healing debuff + root + magical burst will make operatives/scoundrels want to end themselves. Don't forget to tell your double lightstick friend not to kick bait scans and save force choke for the end of the fight.

 

Their healing is ok.

[Brunner_Venda]

The nerf on burst is what is causing this problem not the healers.

 

They definitely destroyed pyro mercs and powertechs. Those classes had some of the highest single target damage.

 

Now that's gone, and everyone is crying about OP healing.

 

The DPS and healing classes both need to be adjusted.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Brunner_Venda

[ronniehenlau]

They definitely destroyed pyro mercs and powertechs. Those classes had some of the highest single target damage.

 

While this is true, carnage marauders and deception assassins can still rip up operative / scoundrel healers.

 

Smashers can't, beeing a 1-trick pony. I think this is the biggest issue atm really, and the biggest cause for QQ; smashers used to be able to charge - crush - smash, now scoundrels can scamper 6m away and neutralise their damage, making them less godmode v scoundrel healers.

Snipers can't, due to their turret-ness. This is their tradeoff for beeing the best ranged dps - los is easy on them.

Mercenaries can at times if they have electronet up, since I can't los, and tracer+unload+hsm+electronet hurts like a mofo.

Operative dps can't because, well, lol operative dps.

Sorcerers, well, they are sort of in the same place as snipers really, except a bit lower dps / burst traded off for offheals/bubble/godmodebubble defence.

[Ashal]

Biofail will fix operatives when they fix smash. Which is someday never.

[Stncold]

Scamper/Exfiltrate annoys me, but I don't want to see it completely removed.

 

Their complete disregard of energy management annoys me, but fine ok.

 

Their defensive cooldowns annoy me, but they're for the most part fine.

 

What absolutely infuriates me is the cover in place crap. I hate not being able to punish them for bad positioning because I can't leap to them, I hate not being able to intercept a pass to them because of a magical invisible barrier.

 

It honestly makes me want to go back to WoW sometimes. Healers are ridiculous there, and harder to kill than they are in TOR, but at least you aren't prevented from gap closing on them just because they are simply standing in one place.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Stncold

[MidichIorian]

Smash was a colllective problem, too many played them. An operative/scoundrel healer can be a gamebreaker without assistance.

 

Jumped on my lowbie scoundrel, which I've never healed on before, and got 600K in a quick VS as a level 23. The average DD does less than 150K damage. Does not compute.

 

A few games later and I'm ending up against three of them, nothing died. on their side. They happened to have some qualified DD'es on their side so it was as one-sided is it gets. Is that the experience BW wants to give new players? As a shareholder I'd be furious.

[Lortemand]

Max 1 operative healer per match. Simple and no big programming needed. 1 day reprogramming.

[RenzoLOL]

If there's multiple healers learn to split and apply mass dps pressure to them all at once. If you can't do that, tough luck. It's not the "OP" operatives' fault you're bad!

 

I can't believe it took 8 pages for the someone to mention this. It's not my fault you 5 dps chase me around in a circle while 2 other healers heal me.

[akabane_k]

Max 1 operative healer per match. Simple and no big programming needed. 1 day reprogramming.

 

respec says hi

[Ajuntalee]

Opeative healer is powerfull, but not more than other 2 healers.

 

All three are virtually unkillable for 95% by a single DPS outside of a few few stunclock rotations, only a few sins, operatives and juggernaughts can pull when luck helps.

 

The game is still okay though,

 

But to ensure WZs rythm keeps its pace I would apply a blanket nerf of 5% to healing in PVP ( and PVe it would help to add some more challenge in those operations/flashpoints)

 

Or better transform the damage reduction buff applied by expertise, into a health point buff of the same amount, that would only gimp TTK when you are healed.

 

Operative are good at keeping someone afloat at 30%, mercs have healing buffs, sorcerrers have burst heal.

 

I don't see any reason to complain about one more than the others.

[Vaerah]

I can't believe it took 8 pages for the someone to mention this. It's not my fault you 5 dps chase me around in a circle while 2 other healers heal me.

 

This works vs healers in Partisan. Once they are properly setup and augmented, you can either put 5 people on one and have the other 2 healers perma-keep the focused guy up or you can spread pressure and have the 3 healers easily deal with the now greatly diluted damage.

 

Why DPS go vs DPS in this game (and others, since the trend of "super healers" spread to many MMOs)? Simple: because DPS actually DIE and fast.

 

All the DPS hope somebody else are CC-ing the healers and focus a squishie (like me) knowing they die in 5 seconds when their healer can't heal.

 

This anomaly is also why so many go AoE specs and other FOTM while single target classes / specs are ignored: it's the easy way to rake medals, fluff kills and general pressure, without requiring any positional + micromanagement skill.

[Lortemand]

respec says hi

 

You're right. 2 working hours more and no PVP respeccing.

But maybe too much.

[Zunayson]

You're right. 2 working hours more and no PVP respeccing.

But maybe too much.

 

a day and 2 hours?

 

3 hours?

 

Hahahaha noooooooo

 

I read once that each employee of MIcrosoft (I know this is BW but still) writes 3 lines of code per day. Or was it 30? Pretty sure it was 3.

[Arkerus]

No way;;; In all honesty, the friggin Priests or Druid builds were about the most ridiculous thing I've seen in the history of MMOGs. I've seen them withstand a barrage from 4~5 enemies, even with the heal debuff poison on, and still function well enough to keep the banner-carrier alive.

 

In comparison, just give me one or two skilled mara/sents to support me and the Op/Scoundrel is dead; if being cross healed, add in a smart Jugg/Guardian or Vanguard/PT tank to keep harassing the cross heals.

 

You know, that's pretty much true and it ridiculous on both side. I see the same thing with operative healers now. 3 and 4 people beating on one while he hots and heals, stuns, runs away, heals, heals. Its just as bad as watching a Druid tank 4 people. It might take 3 here and 4 in WoW, but for me, that's the same mistake.

 

I agree. It was bad in wow and now this game is making the same mistake. Its amazes me the healers that think they are allowed to tank 4 people because that is "balance". They claim if they heal they shouldnt die. How stupid is that logic? If people are by all means, invincible, in pvp then PvP doesn't work. There needs to be checks and balances and right now Oerative healers are not in check.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Arkerus

[Atramar]

a day and 2 hours?

 

3 hours?

 

Hahahaha noooooooo

 

I read once that each employee of MIcrosoft (I know this is BW but still) writes 3 lines of code per day. Or was it 30? Pretty sure it was 3.

 

I know many people know programing only from movies like Iron man or Die hard, but it isn't.

 

most job is documenting, debuging, and thinking of how it will impact to the rest of a code + error handling. only in movies they press random keys and produce hacking software with it.

 

it's better to have good 3 lines then worthelss 30 lines which will fail on first encounter of unpredicted variable.

[Occu_lus]

You know, that's pretty much true and it ridiculous on both side. I see the same thing with operative healers now. 3 and 4 people beating on one while he hots and heals, stuns, runs away, heals, heals. Its just as bad as watching a Druid tank 4 people. It might take 3 here and 4 in WoW, but for me, that's the same mistake.

 

I agree. It was bad in wow and now this game is making the same mistake. Its amazes me the healers that think they are allowed to tank 4 people because that is "balance". They claim if they heal they shouldnt die. How stupid is that logic? If people are by all means, invincible, in pvp then PvP doesn't work. There needs to be checks and balances and right now Oerative healers are not in check.

 

Well, that is a bit of an exaggeration. I am not quite sure what rating you played on, but on higher ratings druids can easily die in a stun against melee cleaves (without mage symbiosis) (and peels from teammates, but that's a different issue).

Operatives do not tank 4 people either, unless they are *********** braindead and using some kind of unresponsive PvE Rotation. Pretty much every defensive CD can be countered if the opponent reacts to them instead of opening the forums straight away crying how the operative got away.

[Hamatula]

so sad... threads like this will never die in mmos.

 

game is pretty well balanced imo.... not perfect but not bad.

[Eyesmindassassin]

So many bads. I 1v1'd an exceptional Op healer today in Huttball on my Marksmanship Sniper. it was pretty much a standstill. I had him dead to rights quite a few times and he used a timely Evasion, Cloaking Screen or Flash Bang to survive. Anytime I was about to die I could easily get away and heal up as well using Covered Escape or Flash Bang. He was not able to concentrate on anyone else but himself with me on him and we pretty much just focused on each other the entire WZ with him using clever pillar tactics to get heals off and us both using Flash Bang and Debilitate at key moments to turn the fight (Leg Shot as well). They are like any other class. I sometimes feel too powerful on mine and other times when faced with people who know what they are doing, feel too underpowered (people who spam snares of course). I usually spam snare and root Ops on any class I play to really diminish their survivability and mobility.

 

I feel the same way on any class, though, is what I'm getting at. There are times on my Warriors or melees (Sin, etc) where I get focused down and or peeled as soon as I Charge in or open from Stealth. Melee in general is very unfun to play most of the time. There are times where you don't get focused, but not a lot. Sometimes I play my Sniper and there's a bunch of stealth (mostly Sins) that open on me every time I spawn and make my life hell. Seems like even if you play perfectly you can't really beat them either. I had one dead with a Leg Shot jump back spamming Takedown and then got Shocked for the rest of my HP after playing amazing.

 

But what I was saying is sometimes I feel OP'd on my Sorc, sometimes on my Jugg, etc. It doesn't really matter. The next match I could feel underpowered. Just depends on the other players, my team, the compositions of each, the skill of each, the spec of each, etc. Plethora of variables. To be fair, I do feel that healing overall as a whole is a bit powerful right now. There does seem to be a lot more healers in every war zone (not just Op's). I remember when 2.0 first came out, Sorc healers were ridiculous due to them, a healing class, receiving the equivalent of a Mage's Ice Block. I guess Op healers are just the FotM thing to QQ about these days. Tanks are very good right now, too. Voidstar in general is a bit of a terrible WZ considering a team can spec all tank/heals on defense and then go full DPS on offense.

[TheDarkGhost]

Ok, just a little background I play both a sorcerer and an operative for heals in WZ's.

 

Its pretty much impossible to kill any decent healer 1v1 and any good healer it will take 1v2-3 to bring him down. Its completely different if I have a guard though. With a guard, it is pretty much impossible for a healer to die unless its 2v3-8 (assuming both tank and healer are decent). Less if opposite team is really good at using stuns/mezz to screw with the healer long enough to focus the tank, but to me this is to be expected.

 

The issue here has nothing to do with the "operative" class though, a sorcerer will normally out heal an operative in most wz's and has about the same amount of life expentancy even without cloak due to there super bubble.

The problem here is when a secondary healer is added, at this point is where those standstill games occur, where no one can kill anyone. Cross-healing should be addressed and healer should probably get a debuff when healing another healer.

 

Other then addressing cross healing, I feel the game is pretty balanced when it comes to healing and alot of this frustration is due ot bad DPS. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a situation where no one would die simply because all the DPS were flailing around aimlessly while I'm litterally standing still as an operative looking at the oppoisite factions healer sitting there healing just like I am. I can also tell you that any coordinated team of assasins/conceal operatives can dps down a healer/tank in any situation guard or not. So really.. common guys.

[Sayu]

I think you need to compare operative with, as an example, the merc healer, ... enough said really.

[NoTomorrow]

So many bads. I 1v1'd an exceptional Op healer today in Huttball on my Marksmanship Sniper. it was pretty much a standstill. I had him dead to rights quite a few times and he used a timely Evasion, Cloaking Screen or Flash Bang to survive. Anytime I was about to die I could easily get away and heal up as well using Covered Escape or Flash Bang. He was not able to concentrate on anyone else but himself with me on him and we pretty much just focused on each other the entire WZ with him using clever pillar tactics to get heals off and us both using Flash Bang and Debilitate at key moments to turn the fight (Leg Shot as well). They are like any other class. I sometimes feel too powerful on mine and other times when faced with people who know what they are doing, feel too underpowered (people who spam snares of course). I usually spam snare and root Ops on any class I play to really diminish their survivability and mobility.

 

 

Sniper being a major annoyance to an EXCEPTIONAL operative healer? Who are you trying to fool on this forum? If the op healer has trouble with snipers, he is by definition a terrible terrible operative. RDPS is complete crap against op healers, only sorcs got a few force dots that they cannot cleanse. And legshot? bwahaha, are you saying he doesn't use cleanse to get rid of the root?