The Cartel Market - a good or bad thing?

[TravelersWay]

Well, in my view it is fantastic with a few flaws.

 

First, no way to buy coins in the game. That's silly IMO.

 

Second, the overall cost of the armor is far too high (about 20 percent too high), and there should be no mods sold in armor on the market IMO...instead it would have been better to sell the mod packs separate and have all armor at level 1.

 

Third, the setup is not as intuitive as it should be. The categories would be served to be better organized IMO.

 

Overall I think it's a boon for the game. Though it is a disappointment that so much has gone to market (they have not thrown that many bones to subs lately) I am still very happy with it and the direction the game is going in.

 

Funny... you are stating that trolls are not welcome, yet you are opening your post with a statement, that I would call trolling

 

 

And you also finish your post with a very biased statement, which clearly states, that you are not really asking for an answer to your topics question, but rather want people to agree with you.... which I will not.

 

I personally do not buy any cartel coins. All purchases I make on the cartel market, I pay for with my monthly stipend. If that is not sufficient to buy what I would like, then I wait.

So while not being a customer of the CM, who really brings money to the system, I still like it for the overall effect it has on the game.

If SWTOR had not switched to a hybrid system, we would have a lot less players than we currently have. I doubt that anyone challenges this statement.

More players are in general a good thing to have for a MMO.

Some kind of cash shop is the normal thing to have when going full or partially f2p.

The cartel shop does not offer any kind of gameplay advantage, which would make it pay to win...

 

So in total: Yes, to me the cartel shop is a good thing.

 

I would have to say that these two posts make excellent points. Obviously the OP is biased against the cash shop and wants others to agree with him - that is SOP in most any gaming forum when someone posts a topic such as this.

 

I would also add that Cash Shops are the wave of the future. Not only are they the primary source of income in F2P/Hybrid business models (you know, so the game you enjoy playing can afford to keep the servers on), but we are also seeing the trend of sub based games that implement cash shops as well - WoW and ESO being the two most notable ones. Just like DLC when it was first introduced, it will be hated and continually bashed, but there is no denying that the industry market supports it, demands it, and thusly it will come to be accepted as DLC has.

 

Personally, I disliked (to put it mildly) the notions of digitally downloading games and "Games as a Service". Being old school, I am of the firm belief that I should be able to buy a physical copy of a game I want and be able to count on playing it whenever I want for many, many years to come. However, that is no longer practical in today's day and age of the tech industry. I have come to accept the fact that digital downloads are better for the industry, and Games as a Service also have their place (though consumer protection laws really need to be updated to ensure protection covers such a notion).

 

In the end, whether you like or hate the cash shop in this, or any, game is irrelevant. It is a proven business model, it makes money for the company which allows them to continue to fund said game, and it allows another option for players to be able to customize their gaming experience. Without cash shops, this and many other games would no longer exist. Cash Shops are here to stay, so one had either better get used to them or find a new hobby. Simple as that.

 

There has to be a balance between a cash market and the in-game earned/crafted market.

Absolutely, and that balance is to make the cash shop and crafters a completely optional element. I should not have to go to either to be able to progress and complete a game. Fortunately, that holds true for SWTOR now, so the balance is met.

 

Because World of Warcraft keeps making a come back, despite everyone constantly saying they're "over WoW".

 

But their Blood Elf Paladin just keeps hitting level cap.....

Very poignant point there, and one that tells a whole story of success and failure for every game to follow WoW's explosion. But of course that discussion is way beyond the scope for this thread. Suffice it to say, however, that the investment of time in and MMO is more important than money for the majority of players, and thus why, despite all the gnashing of teeth, someone will still continue to return to WoW than become the noob in any new game, no matter how appealing.

Edited January 3, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Grayseven]

/snip

 

Absolutely, and that balance is to make the cash shop and crafters a completely optional element. I should not have to go to either to be able to progress and complete a game. Fortunately, that holds true for SWTOR now, so the balance is met.

 

 

 

That isn't the balance I'm looking for. The artwork for all of them needs to have an equal level of quality and right now the CM artwork is far and beyond better than the crafted/earned artwork.

 

Yes, everything in this game is optional, but the major source of attractive art assets should not be the cash market.

[TravelersWay]

That isn't the balance I'm looking for. The artwork for all of them needs to have an equal level of quality and right now the CM artwork is far and beyond better than the crafted/earned artwork.

 

Yes, everything in this game is optional, but the major source of attractive art assets should not be the cash market.

 

Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder. Outside of some of the iconic armor sets (like the Sandpeople one, which should be CM accessible only), there is nothing in the CM that I find any more attractive than what is in the game already. Truth be told, I would like to see many more of the in-game available armor skins put into the CM as adaptable armor so I can customize my character without having to do a scavenger hunt in game - that is only good for a couple of levels anyway.

 

There is absolutely nothing in the CM that I would put on my characters over what they already have in the game at this point - hence why my monthly stipend has continued to add up over time. You, of course, are free to disagree because "looks" are a purely personal preference, but don't try to place objective balance upon something that is purely subjective.

[Nydus]

I want nothing more then to be proven wrong, but you have Wild Star and TESO releasing soon, then midway through 2014 you have games like EQN, Star Citizen and the new WoW expansion, this is just on the PC. Then you have the console MMO's releasing like Destiny and the Tom Clancy one I forget the name. Unless EAware pull something out of their hats, I agree with previous statements, this may well be the last trading year for SWTOR, as I can not see them competing with those games. And I know I'm not alone with that statement.

 

No you aren't alone because I've read similar posts since the community turned on TOR in the spring of 2012.

 

Here is how it goes: SWTOR is fun, but not what expected, so just wait until "X" game comes out or the Panda expansion and then it is ALL OVER SO ENJOY IT NOW!!!!

 

*Crickets* Then "X" game tanks, and WoW subscribers take a dive after the Panda Expansion.

 

I'm not saying I know the future of this game but stop being so defeatist. All I know is that the game population is healthier today than it was a year ago. I have not idea if it is profitable but with about half a million subscribers and healthy revenue from the Cartel Market (which they've said is a major source of income now) they should have money (as in, millions of dollars a month!) to continue to develop new content and refine existing content.

 

And as for Star Citizen? I will personally be playing that but pay attention to General Chat sometime; SWTOR is filled with whiney people who complain when they have to pay 10k of credits when they wipe on an OP or Flashpoint. You think the average player will be able to handle permadeath?

 

They'll run screaming and complaining from Star Citizen and that is half the reason I want to play it. Except here is the thing, it is such a different game I'll probably keep my subscription to TOR.

 

- Arcada

[Mowermanx]

You, of course, are free to disagree

How kind.

 

"looks" are a purely personal preference, but don't try to place objective balance upon something that is purely subjective.

Really? go to the fleet on any server at any time and have a good look around what everyone is wearing, then get back to us about that.

[DarthTHC]

Really? go to the fleet on any server at any time and have a good look around what everyone is wearing, then get back to us about that.

 

I see a pretty good mix of stuff. Perhaps that's because I play on an RP server.

 

What exactly are you trying to say though? That there are many clones?

[Cordarn]

What annoys me about the cartel market is that when you buy something off the cartel market you have to pay AGAIN to make it available to all characters. Who thought up that design?

[OddballEasyEight]

 

Really? go to the fleet on any server at any time and have a good look around what everyone is wearing, then get back to us about that.

 

They are usually wearing outfits that are adaptable from lvl 1 so that they can look good from the start of the game.

The ones I see that change outfits alot are usually wearing whatever happens to be new at the moment. Usually that is items from the cartel market since that is updated most often, but when new end-game or reputation gear comes out they wear that.

[SaltZ]

No you aren't alone because I've read similar posts since the community turned on TOR in the spring of 2012.

 

Here is how it goes: SWTOR is fun, but not what expected, so just wait until "X" game comes out or the Panda expansion and then it is ALL OVER SO ENJOY IT NOW!!!!

 

*Crickets* Then "X" game tanks, and WoW subscribers take a dive after the Panda Expansion.

 

I'm not saying I know the future of this game but stop being so defeatist. All I know is that the game population is healthier today than it was a year ago. I have not idea if it is profitable but with about half a million subscribers and healthy revenue from the Cartel Market (which they've said is a major source of income now) they should have money (as in, millions of dollars a month!) to continue to develop new content and refine existing content.

 

And as for Star Citizen? I will personally be playing that but pay attention to General Chat sometime; SWTOR is filled with whiney people who complain when they have to pay 10k of credits when they wipe on an OP or Flashpoint. You think the average player will be able to handle permadeath?

 

They'll run screaming and complaining from Star Citizen and that is half the reason I want to play it. Except here is the thing, it is such a different game I'll probably keep my subscription to TOR.

 

- Arcada

 

Way to completely ignore the point I was making.

 

What I said was unless EAware produce something to compete, they will find it very hard to hold onto players. MMO's are a self destructive environment, if populations decrease, people notice this and are quick to jump ship. I never said "THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!"

 

Last estimates we have for TOR pop is around 500k, That is a very small fragile amount of players to try and survive an onslaught of MMO's from all angles and platforms. Lets say they loose 15% of their population (75,000), that could be enough to say stop production on new raid content or new pvp content.

 

Remember lack of content = number 1 reason people leave MMO's.

 

Lets say they lost 30% (150,000), that could be more then enough to stop all but cartel market content and even closure of the game.

 

We have no idea of what the actual breadline limit is for this game, but if we are getting this amount of content with 500k players, I would argue that their breadline limit is not that far away.

[TUXs]

Way to completely ignore the point I was making.

 

What I said was unless EAware produce something to compete, they will find it very hard to hold onto players. MMO's are a self destructive environment, if populations decrease, people notice this and are quick to jump ship. I never said "THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!"

 

Last estimates we have for TOR pop is around 500k, That is a very small fragile amount of players to try and survive an onslaught of MMO's from all angles and platforms. Lets say they loose 15% of their population (75,000), that could be enough to say stop production on new raid content or new pvp content.

 

Remember lack of content = number 1 reason people leave MMO's.

 

Lets say they lost 30% (150,000), that could be more then enough to stop all but cartel market content and even closure of the game.

 

We have no idea of what the actual breadline limit is for this game, but if we are getting this amount of content with 500k players, I would argue that their breadline limit is not that far away.

Well said! Great points.

[Manweth]

It didn't say it had 500k players, it said it had above 600k subscribers... Incidentally, 500k subscribers are their mark for making game sustainable, alone, back before F2P launched.

 

 

And an additional unknown number ( that is rumored to be above 2M) that logs in regularly. And spends money in CM.

 

Relax dudes and dudesses, this game is one of EA's stable money makers. They like it now, because ,t has been consistently making money ever since it went F2P.

 

Money, I'm sure you all know, is what makes world go spin. In this case, it makes SWTOR spin, and with ease.

 

EDIT: Also, I do hate an excessive obsession on grammar, but I can't stop being grammar nazi for this one second.

 

Loose =/= Lose

 

Two very very very different meanings.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Manweth

[TUXs]

It didn't say it had 500k players, it said it had above 600k subscribers... Incidentally, 500k subscribers are their mark for making game sustainable, alone, back before F2P launched.

 

 

And an additional unknown number ( that is rumored to be above 2M) that logs in regularly. And spends money in CM.

 

Relax dudes and dudesses, this game is one of EA's stable money makers. They like it now, because ,t has been consistently making money ever since it went F2P.

 

Money, I'm sure you all know, is what makes world go spin. In this case, it makes SWTOR spin, and with ease.

I like imaginary numbers and false assumptions too, but yours are overly fictional.

 

Happen to have a link for ANY of your false claims?

[Fantazm]

People arguing about things they don't actually have any proper knowledge about always amuses me.

[SaltZ]

It didn't say it had 500k players, it said it had above 600k subscribers... Incidentally, 500k subscribers are their mark for making game sustainable, alone, back before F2P launched.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/03/research-firm-swtor-has-350-000-peak-concurrent-users/

 

http://www.insidegamingdaily.com/2012/01/03/swtor-has-350000-concurrent-players/

 

So my estimate of 500k is pretty accurate I feel.

 

And an additional unknown number ( that is rumored to be above 2M) that logs in regularly. And spends money in CM.

 

If I remember correctly EAware stated that the majority of CM purchases came from subscribers and not F2P players. I think this was in a EAware investor call or something. But again please prove me wrong.

 

I'm also finding it very hard to find this "rumoured 2m" of unknown players.

 

EDIT: Also, I do hate an excessive obsession on grammar, but I can't stop being grammar nazi for this one second.

 

Loose =/= Lose

 

Two very very very different meanings.

 

If you are going to bring up grammar errors, then you clearly have nothing left to contribute to the conversation and instead which to aggravate people.

Edited January 3, 2014 by SaltZ

[ikinai]

The cartel market, it's a thing. Use it, don't use it. It's neither good nor bad.

[clericz]

If you don't want to pay them money, don't expect to get the whole game for free.

 

Sub or buy CC, as long as they get some revenue they can keep the game afloat and with ENOUGH revenue can develop new content <Cathar playable race>.

 

p.s. never had any issue with the Cartel system since I sub, always had enough cred to buy the stuff I wanted.

[Manweth]

Rumors, based on TORwars podcasts. Go ask Brian where he came up with that. Not me.

 

500k is their baseline, stated way back in 2012. By Daniel before he left, me thinks. It was either him or Jeff Hickman. But that's an official statement. 500k subs= Sustained Game Growth. ( Without any CM revenue.)

 

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/22179-electronic-arts-q2-2013-earnings-conference-call

 

While nothing in numbers.....

 

You can see no one's gonna terminate the game. In fact, they were so impressed, they want more F2P models within EA assets.

 

At this point, I'm wondering if anyone would be sad if game got terminated. Sometimes it feels only 10 people on the planet actually wants the game to continue. It's a lonely feeling.

 

Incidentally, no one cries out for Gw2's termination, despite its now dangerously low income.

[Sangrar]

If you don't want to pay them money, don't expect to get the whole game for free.

 

Sub or buy CC, as long as they get some revenue they can keep the game afloat and with ENOUGH revenue can develop new content <Cathar playable race>.

 

p.s. never had any issue with the Cartel system since I sub, always had enough cred to buy the stuff I wanted.

 

exactly, cartel market is just fluff, extra stuff, vanity items. People complain about it saying they're "forced" to buy cc, even though that was NEVER true, as it is with my 525 a month I can get stuff once in a while, no big deal, though I mainly just buy what I want on gtn. Then people complained about high prices of the items, as if people will charge little money for something as cool as a varactyl mount . Anyway though, its not a problem, people who do not like should just ignore it and not bother with it, just don't antagonize Bioware of EA, businesses, for trying to make profit off a system that is used in other games as well.

[SaltZ]

Rumors, based on TORwars podcasts. Go ask Brian where he came up with that. Not me.

 

500k is their baseline, stated way back in 2012. By Daniel before he left, me thinks. It was either him or Jeff Hickman. But that's an official statement. 500k subs= Sustained Game Growth. ( Without any CM revenue.)

 

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/22179-electronic-arts-q2-2013-earnings-conference-call

 

While nothing in numbers.....

 

You can see no one's gonna terminate the game. In fact, they were so impressed, they want more F2P models within EA assets.

 

At this point, I'm wondering if anyone would be sad if game got terminated. Sometimes it feels only 10 people on the planet actually wants the game to continue. It's a lonely feeling.

 

Incidentally, no one cries out for Gw2's termination, despite its now dangerously low income.

 

I'm sorry, but you have failed to provide any form of evidence to back up your estimations.

 

The link you provided has no actual "confirmed" numbers and no estimated numbers, while mine has at least some reputable estimations.

 

But please if you can find me a link to your

 

"500k is their baseline, stated way back in 2012. By Daniel before he left, me thinks. It was either him or Jeff Hickman. But that's an official statement. 500k subs= Sustained Game Growth. ( Without any CM revenue.)"

 

I would be greatly appreciate that.

[Manweth]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-the-old-republic-needs-only-500k-subscribers-ea/1100-6297338/

 

I f.....g hate waging forum wars.

 

It feels a lot like schoolyard fights.

 

Also, I was wrong. This quote was Riccitiello's, former CEO of EA. Doesn't make it less true though.

 

Anyway, do not confuse a laziness to do research for a stupid forum war with the pretentiousness of an uneducated nerd.

 

I will only give into the "SWTOR is dying" camp when the game actually DIES.

 

Some of us have been here since; NOT launch, NOT open-beta, NOT closed-beta, but ever since the first announcement.

 

Swtor has been dying since 2008, if I were to listen to all the naysayers. The only danger was just before f2p conversion with rapid falls in subs, but that's a long bygone danger now.

 

EDIT: Have I mentioned how I hate forum wars?

 

Have I?

 

Oh well, for safety's sake.

 

I HATE WAGING FORUM WARS:

 

WE ALL PLAY THE SAME GAME.

 

Dammit, sometimes you should just play. JUSt that.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Manweth

[DarthTHC]

I'm sorry, but you have failed to provide any form of evidence to back up your estimations.

 

The link you provided has no actual "confirmed" numbers and no estimated numbers, while mine has at least some reputable estimations.

 

But please if you can find me a link to your

 

"500k is their baseline, stated way back in 2012. By Daniel before he left, me thinks. It was either him or Jeff Hickman. But that's an official statement. 500k subs= Sustained Game Growth. ( Without any CM revenue.)"

 

I would be greatly appreciate that.

 

I was here. I remember that statement and number clear as day. 500k subscribers would be nicely profitable, even with the team they had way back when. This was at launch.

 

The team has been drastically reduced since then. I would say "decimated" but the literal definition of that term is losing 10% and I'm sure the team has lost many times that through all the cuts.

 

The game must be making money hand-over-fist. If it weren't, EA being who they are, it would be gone.

 

If you are insistent on links from over 2 years ago to prove to you that this thing that was very common knowledge at the time was actually said, well, you're probably going to be disappointed unless someone who gives two flying s...quirrels about your opinion has it saved in a bookmark or something.

 

We probably also cannot be troubled to link to you proof that water is wet, the sun is really big and hot, and that there are literally billions of billions of stars in the known universe.

[SaltZ]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-the-old-republic-needs-only-500k-subscribers-ea/1100-6297338/

 

I f.....g hate waging forum wars.

 

It feels a lot like schoolyard fights.

 

Also, I was wrong. This quote was Riccitiello's, former CEO of EA. Doesn't make it less true though.

 

Anyway, do not confuse a laziness to do research for a stupid forum war with the pretentiousness of an uneducated nerd.

 

I will only give into the "SWTOR is dying" camp when the game actually DIES.

 

Some of us have been here since; NOT launch, NOT open-beta, NOT closed-beta, but ever since the first announcement.

 

Swtor has been dying since 2008, if I were to listen to all the naysayers. The only danger was just before f2p conversion with rapid falls in subs, but that's a long bygone danger now.

 

EDIT: Have I mentioned how I hate forum wars?

 

Have I?

 

Oh well, for safety's sake.

 

I HATE WAGING FORUM WARS:

 

WE ALL PLAY THE SAME GAME.

 

Dammit, sometimes you should just play. JUSt that.

 

Thank you for providing that link.

[SaltZ]

I was here. I remember that statement and number clear as day. 500k subscribers would be nicely profitable, even with the team they had way back when. This was at launch.

 

So based on the 350k active concurrent users and and the 500k to be nicely profitable, considering this is the only information we can use to go off, they are already below that amount?

 

If you are insistent on links from over 2 years ago to prove to you that this thing that was very common knowledge at the time was actually said, well, you're probably going to be disappointed unless someone who gives two flying s...quirrels about your opinion has it saved in a bookmark or something.

 

We probably also cannot be troubled to link to you proof that water is wet, the sun is really big and hot, and that there are literally billions of billions of stars in the known universe.[/color]

 

If your going to be rude, please just leave. You are not contributing anything and i fail to see where i have been rude to warrant such an attitude.

Edited January 3, 2014 by SaltZ

[DarthTHC]

So based on the 350k active concurrent users and and the 500k to be nicely profitable, considering this is the only information we can use to go off, they are already below that amount?

 

If your going to be rude, please just leave. You are not contributing anything and i fail to see where i have been rude to warrant such an attitude.

 

According to information given during the most recent earnings call, the game is not below 350k subscribers. It was, at the time, around 500k and they indicated an upward trend. This was before the release of GSF, and the release of new features in MMOs tends to coincide with an uptick (at least temporarily) in subscriptions. Were I to bet an over/under at 500k, today, I would bet the over.

 

I don't see how concurrent users are any sort of relevant measurement for the game. This is an EA title so it's about money. Concurrent users doesn't equal money. Subscribers and Cartel Coin sales equal money.

 

Rude? How about doing a Google search or two to find the information for yourself?

Edited January 3, 2014 by DarthTHC

[OddballEasyEight]

So based on the 350k active concurrent users and and the 500k to be nicely profitable, considering this is the only information we can use to go off, they are already below that amount?

 

Well that was back before F2P and the microtransactions.

They said during the last shareholders meeting that the cartel market makes up for more than half their income from the game so that said, it ought to be doing fine.

Oh and don't ask me to link that, because it's easy enough to find on your own.