Keese Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Seriously folks enough of the whining about friggen Scamper/Exfiltrate. Instead of complaining how about some contrustive suggestions on how to balance it? Here Ill make the first attempt and then you guys can make some suggestions. I propose that when an Agent or Scoundrel uses thier roll ability it adds a debuff to them ( can call it Dizzy or something similar ). This debuff will last 20 seconds and stack up to 3 times. If and when an Agent or Scoundrel hit the 3 stack mark, the ability goes on cool down till the Debuff falls off. In my opinion this should reduce the about of rolling spam in WZ and still leave the ability with the same energy cost and instant cool down and require more intelligent use of the ability instead of the constant spammage we see of it. It should keep people from being able to roll x 3 hitting thier energy return ( Adrenal Probe/Cool Head ) and roll x 3 again every 2 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Slow the Op or Scoundrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Why's he getting nerfed, Dad? Because we have to nerf him. He didn't do anything wrong. Because he's the scapegoat SWTOR deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll nerf him... ... because he can take it. Because he's not our scapegoat. He's a Silent Killer... ...a Watchful Predator. An Operative... ~Batman: The Dark Knight I want attention so I'm going to post this until I get some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzingFridge Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) slow the op or scoundrel. This x100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000. Edited June 17, 2013 by BuzzingFridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molokia Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 ~Batman: The Dark Knight I want attention so I'm going to post this until I get some. hahahahahahaa AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 ~Batman: The Dark Knight I want attention so I'm going to post this until I get some. Okay, here is the attention. Now stop posting this and go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mularky Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) I think if you put a slow on the op while they are trying to roll (like they intended). Edited June 17, 2013 by Mularky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverickmatt Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sure, you can slow the operative... but how do you slow them from getting to the node long before anyone else, or getting the Huttball before you can make it up the ramp? It's silly, exploitable, and it needs SOMETHING to tone it down. It's a shame though. It's a nice ability, but the few who chose to use it in a manner in which it likely wasn't intended ruin it for all. I'm sure it will be defended with, "L2P" which is just stupid. I read somewhere that someone said, "I'm just using the mechanics the devs built into the game. I'm working within the system." This argument is null. Nobody likes those who exploit loopholes in the tax laws (Mr. Capital Gains, I'm looking at you), but they say they are just working within the boundaries of the system as well...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sure, you can slow the operative... but how do you slow them from getting to the node long before anyone else, or getting the Huttball before you can make it up the ramp? It's silly, exploitable, and it needs SOMETHING to tone it down. It's a shame though. It's a nice ability, but the few who chose to use it in a manner in which it likely wasn't intended ruin it for all. I'm sure it will be defended with, "L2P" which is just stupid. I read somewhere that someone said, "I'm just using the mechanics the devs built into the game. I'm working within the system." This argument is null. Nobody likes those who exploit loopholes in the tax laws (Mr. Capital Gains, I'm looking at you), but they say they are just working within the boundaries of the system as well...... They absolutely can't get to the ball before you get up the ramp. It's not exploitable because some people choose to blow all of their energy using it. Put a slow on them or pull them back. And so what if they get the ball first? Your team is going to be close enough to engage them and they are super squishy without team support (if they are way ahead fo you they will be way ahead of their team too). If he passes it to a tank and your team can't kill them or get the ball from them I highly doubt you were going to be able to keep the ball out of their hands the entire game sans Op. roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sure, you can slow the operative... but how do you slow them from getting to the node long before anyone else, or getting the Huttball before you can make it up the ramp? It's silly, exploitable, and it needs SOMETHING to tone it down. It's a shame though. It's a nice ability, but the few who chose to use it in a manner in which it likely wasn't intended ruin it for all. I'm sure it will be defended with, "L2P" which is just stupid. I read somewhere that someone said, "I'm just using the mechanics the devs built into the game. I'm working within the system." This argument is null. Nobody likes those who exploit loopholes in the tax laws (Mr. Capital Gains, I'm looking at you), but they say they are just working within the boundaries of the system as well...... It is not an exploit or loophole. Once they get the ball they have no energy and therefore at that moment are useless to do anything, but pass the ball. It is not a problem in rateds therefore this is a pug issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverickmatt Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 It is not an exploit or loophole. Once they get the ball they have no energy and therefore at that moment are useless to do anything, but pass the ball. It is not a problem in rateds therefore this is a pug issue. This bleeds over into another thread about Premades, but needless to say I find your arrogance despicable. Rateds are an afterthought in the afterthought that is PvP. This pvp is not created for "SUPERWOWZLOLUSUK HARDXCORE PVP WARLURDZ". It is for the casual player, and therefore your Rateds matter very little, as evidenced by the Dev's lack of attention to that niche. The complaint about the roll is not based around how much damage or healing they can do after rolling so far, but rather how quickly they can get to objectives. Last I checked, it takes no energy to interact with objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 It is not an exploit or loophole. Once they get the ball they have no energy and therefore at that moment are useless to do anything, but pass the ball. It is not a problem in rateds therefore this is a pug issue. Yeah let's balance it around 0,1 % of the population. It's in the same catergory as releasing NiM for TfB and SV and calling it an update when 90 % of the population hasnt even beaten the hardmode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I'm sorry but it is not an issue. It only affects the beginning of matches and mainly huttball. Depending on comp a lot can be done about the scoundrel/op who has the ball. If you don't have an op assume they will get the ball first. Set up pulls or leaps. I don't know what the big deal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This bleeds over into another thread about Premades, but needless to say I find your arrogance despicable. Rateds are an afterthought in the afterthought that is PvP. This pvp is not created for "SUPERWOWZLOLUSUK HARDXCORE PVP WARLURDZ". It is for the casual player, and therefore your Rateds matter very little, as evidenced by the Dev's lack of attention to that niche. The complaint about the roll is not based around how much damage or healing they can do after rolling so far, but rather how quickly they can get to objectives. Last I checked, it takes no energy to interact with objectives. I'm sorry but you can not take anything in regular warzones seriously. Most people only do what they want to do. I do not have issues with the op getting ball first in huttball because there is a lot of things you can do after they get the ball. Even if they score one point you can comeback to still win. What is the issue. You don't lose because of one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverickmatt Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I'm sorry but you can not take anything in regular warzones seriously. Most people only do what they want to do. I do not have issues with the op getting ball first in huttball because there is a lot of things you can do after they get the ball. Even if they score one point you can comeback to still win. What is the issue. You don't lose because of one point. Like the above post said, you cannot balance around the .1% You said, "It's not an issue in rateds so it must be a pug issue." This lends itself to the perception that you think that players who play in rateds are better than players who do not. Such is not the case. You also said something about countering the op roll if your team composition is adequate. The problem with that theory is that in pug groups, composition is not factored in when matches are made. Therefore puggers often do not have the tools to counter the roll. Warzones often become stalemates, and in those stalemates speed is king. He who caps first.. well... usually wins. And who caps first? The operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthruff Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) They win the race to first huttball every time but it's extremely easy to counter. On my shadow I love to pull them to the corner of the base of the ramp right as the op gets the ball so he has zero passing angles and is nowhere near his team so your 8 man team can crush them go around the corner and head up the ramp or force a vanish where your team will have the advantage winning the reset since the other team has no idea what just happened. On my operative, I don't even bother wasting the energy to win the first ball. Edited June 18, 2013 by darthruff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Like the above post said, you cannot balance around the .1% You said, "It's not an issue in rateds so it must be a pug issue." This lends itself to the perception that you think that players who play in rateds are better than players who do not. Such is not the case. You also said something about countering the op roll if your team composition is adequate. The problem with that theory is that in pug groups, composition is not factored in when matches are made. Therefore puggers often do not have the tools to counter the roll. Warzones often become stalemates, and in those stalemates speed is king. He who caps first.. well... usually wins. And who caps first? The operative. I don't know about you but most regs I play ops hardly ever go to node to defend. Huttball is the only map that I feel in regular warzones that the op has an advantage, but it is also the easiest map to recover from. In VS you can drop immediately and no op is faster than that. In CW I have never seen an op cap mid faster than I can get there. In NC I could see the op getting there faster, but still have no problem stopping them before they cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthruff Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Like the above post said, you cannot balance around the .1% You said, "It's not an issue in rateds so it must be a pug issue." This lends itself to the perception that you think that players who play in rateds are better than players who do not. Such is not the case. You also said something about countering the op roll if your team composition is adequate. The problem with that theory is that in pug groups, composition is not factored in when matches are made. Therefore puggers often do not have the tools to counter the roll. It's not a problem in rateds because good players know how to counter. You're basically saying pugs are too bad or too dumb to learn how to counter, so then the game should be made easier for them Warzones often become stalemates, and in those stalemates speed is king. He who caps first.. well... usually wins. And who caps first? The operative. You can't roll to a node and CAP it before the opposing team gets there in any WZ. You can only win the 1st huttball and that doesn't mean you're going to score. You just obtain first possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracon_Dirnac Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Ok my thoughts is this they are overusing it and the speed needs to be lowered and regardless it needs a longer coold down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polymerize Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Only -real- issue I have with it is; how often the operative goes 'invisible' but should be visible and therefore targetable but is not because the ability is glitchy with the game. Edited June 18, 2013 by Polymerize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadDogBarking Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 It is not an exploit or loophole. Once they get the ball they have no energy and therefore at that moment are useless to do anything, but pass the ball. It is not a problem in rateds therefore this is a pug issue. Rated is a real small minority of the actual matches played, and it is probably those same rated players pulling this off so well in the majority of non ranked WZs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seireeni Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I propose that when an Agent or Scoundrel uses thier roll ability it adds a debuff to them ( can call it Dizzy or something similar ). This debuff will last 20 seconds and stack up to 3 times. If and when an Agent or Scoundrel hit the 3 stack mark, the ability goes on cool down till the Debuff falls off. I've been proposing this for a long time. Imo it would stop the whining without actually breaking the ability as a gap closer/escape ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nager_bomb Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Ok my thoughts is this they are overusing it and the speed needs to be lowered and regardless it needs a longer coold down. It doesn't have an official cd, sure, but if the op/scoundrel just spams roll they have no energy and very low energy regen, and are pretty much useless. This is equivalent to having a cd. Sithsanity is correct in this case, use the energy you are using to write forum posts to work on strategies to shut it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) I propose that when an Agent or Scoundrel uses thier roll ability it adds a debuff to them ( can call it Dizzy or something similar ). This debuff will last 20 seconds and stack up to 3 times. If and when an Agent or Scoundrel hit the 3 stack mark, the ability goes on cool down till the Debuff falls off. Yeah, right. A pseudo-nerf to keep people quiet. One that still allows to do 3 rolls in a row, but look here, it now has a CD! The CD you're suggesting won't change a thing, cause 3 rolls is the maximum they can do before running out of energy anyway. So no thanks. Give roll a proper CD.That's what everybody else has on this kind of moves. Edited June 18, 2013 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seireeni Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Yeah, right. A pseudo-nerf to keep people quiet. One that still allows to do 3 rolls in a row, but look here, it now has a CD that is pointless anyway, cause 3 rolls is the maximum they can do before running out of energy anyway. No thanks. Give roll a proper CD.That's what everybody else has on this kind of moves. 3 rolls is the maximum? If you want to keep your energy at 50% or more, maybe. Problem is that no one else has 6-12m range on their similiar abilities. 3xroll = 36m. Haven't tested how long you can run with normal force speed, but my healer can run 40m, so it would be actually pretty close to force speed after that kind of "cooldown" - just more costly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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