The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

[Beniboybling]

Well he never really redirected it, just merely slowed its descent. But Marek showing more impressive feats? Vader Force Choke Xizor light years away on hologram, how is that not more impressive compared to that or at least to that scale?

Darth Baras has done the same, its impressive, but not exceptionally so.

 

Anyways this is kinda more relevant now as I think we can move onto No. 5 - Plagueis at this point should come into the equation as he could supposedly challenge Sidious though before the latter reached his prime.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Kaedusz]

Something interesting I found in the Revenge of the Sith visual dictionary. It notes that Yoda felt the return of the dark side two centuries prior to the movies.

 

Darth Tenebrous's master revealed the dark side and opened a hole in the force,which allowed The Jedi Order to feel the Dark Side for the first time since the Brotherhood of Darkness was wiped.It was not just Yoda.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Kaedusz

[Wolfninjajedi]

I'm just done with this thread now, were really not gonna be able to get through all 10, too many people to go through especially if were just going off of what the person can do with just The Force alone....which is a lot of people. Edited June 17, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Darth Tenebrous's master revealed the dark side and opened a hole in the force,which allowed The Jedi Order to feel the Dark Side for the first time since the Brotherhood of Darkness was wiped.It was not just Yoda.

 

This was already known to me. I was just pointing something out.

[tunewalker]

This does not mean he doesn't need a body, but could go above and beyond what his body could take.

 

Regardless we have to remember that Vitiate is immortal, because he has the spirits of 8,000 Sith and an entire planet to draw on, so I'd say that allows him to go above and beyond as well. And even with his body destroyed, he was able to collapse the Dark Temple Throne Room.

 

I'd also point out that a lot of Jedi are able to use Force valor, to push their bodies beyond its capabilities. This is a staple-point of Ataru users. And Sith can used Force rage in a similar manner, Vader and Malgus being prime examples of this.

 

 

Your going to hate me beni because I am going to do the thing I do over and over again and tell you to re-read you misinterpreted and misunderstood .... AGAIN this is why I stayed out of this till now cus once I jump in no consensus will ever be made between the 2 of us...... This isn't force valor he isn't pushing his bodies limits he is pushing his force limits read the quote Him and Luke (they were the only 2 people in the NJO to do this so its not force valor) could use THE FORCE at such a lvl that the exhersion of the force would normally cause harm to the body they could ignore..... For example Galens famous Pushing a star destroyer being such a strain that he passes out from it both Luke and Caedus could do the same thing and not pass out thanks to this ability to transcend the limits of a physical body to withstand THE FORCE, this isn't force valor where the physical body has more strength or endurance then it normally would.... this is entirely different allowing greater spurts of force energy then a body would allow.

 

Another example of this would be Dorsk 81's famous force push that sends an entire fleet out of a solar system that disintergrates his body...... now obviously Luke and Caedus couldn't do this with out having their body disintegrated but ultimately to do this ability they could in theory do this but would be destroyed in the process. But anything up until the point of body destruction they could do so with little to no ill effects.

 

 

Also Vitiate still needs to act through a voice with out a physical body he has never shown any ability to affect anything as such with his loss to Hero and Wrath I don't think he needs to be on here yet..... so ultimately 4 goes to caedus with ease he has many feats to put him there able to use THE FORCE beyond what a physical body can take.

 

 

And I don't think any consensus was made about number 4 beni if you want this to be the list to end all lists you cant just say I am right you are all wrong and put some one that doesn't deserve it on the list no one has conceded 4 to vitiate that's only a few who think so, so you need to edit that out honestly.

Edited June 17, 2013 by tunewalker

[S_W_LeGenD]

DISCLAIMER: This is not another one of those 'who's the most powerful Jedi/Sith etc.' threads

- gimme a chance!

 

OK, so I'm sure you're all aware that those kinda threads pop up all the time, and while its fun to give your opinion it never really gets anywhere in the end. So I thought I'd make a thread were we can discuss/debate who the real most powerful Force users are. Which will consist of a list of ten. I'm not asking for a list of who you think the most powerful Force users are, I'm hoping to do this one position at a time.

 

However in accordance with G-Canon, first and second place will be fixed. There is no room for debate here, you may disagree but this is a G-Canon respecting thread and I don't want this to collapse into another Vitiate vs Sidious debate. Also, I'm going to exclude deities etc. such as the Ones, Abeloth and the rest.

 

Anyway, so behold the template!

 

1. Luke Skywalker

2. Darth Sidious

 

^^ The above, according to G-Canon are the most powerful Jedi and Sith respectively and Luke Skywalker the most powerful Force user who has himself defeated Darth Sidious at the pinnacle of his power in post-ROTJ.

 

3. Yoda

4. Vitiate/Sith Emperor

5. ?

6. ?

7. ?

8. ?

9. ?

10. ?

 

As you can imagine, I'll update this thread as we go along. And if it gets enough attention and doesn't collapse into a flame war I might try and compile a list for most powerful Sith and most powerful Jedi. I'm hoping that once this list is done it will be a go-to source for when threads of this kind come up. And can become our own sort of 'forum-canon'.

It is very difficult to rank characters in these times since many exceptionally powerful characters have been introduced in recent canon.

 

Sidious and Vitiate deserve TOP position due to the conditions these two guys reached; their powers had galactic reach. They are logically more powerful then any Jedi.

 

Luke and Yoda are tied in canon for most powerful Jedi accolade. However, it is unclear at the moment that how some ancients will pan out in the big picture. We have names such as Kaedan, Satele, Revan, HoT and Bersen'thor. In addition, their are some Sith Lords who have better showings then Yoda so I personally believe that he should be below Luke.

 

I think that Pablo made a wise decision for not declaring any Jedi and Sith as most powerful in his book (The Essential Reader's Companion) covering entire Star Wars history. He did pointed out that Luke mastered the Force. However, several Sith Lords also mastered the Force as per latest canon update.

 

Also Vitiate still needs to act through a voice with out a physical body he has never shown any ability to affect anything as such with his loss to Hero and Wrath I don't think he needs to be on here yet..... so ultimately 4 goes to caedus with ease he has many feats to put him there able to use THE FORCE beyond what a physical body can take.

You need to learn a lot about Vitiate, it seems. Vitiate, even in essence form (his weakest point), heavily damaged the Dark Temple in his final effort to kill HoT by attempting to crush him beneath the rubble. Also, Vitiate's powers have galactic reach.

Edited June 17, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[tunewalker]

It is very difficult to rank characters in these times since many exceptionally powerful characters have been introduced in recent canon.

 

Sidious and Vitiate deserve TOP position due to the conditions these two guys reached; their powers had galactic reach. They are logically more powerful then any Jedi.

 

Luke and Yoda are tied in canon for most powerful Jedi accolade. However, it is unclear at the moment that how some ancients will pan out in the big picture. We have names such as Kaedan, Satele, Revan, HoT and Bersen'thor. In addition, their are some Sith Lords who have better showings then Yoda so I personally believe that he should be below Luke.

 

I think that Pablo made a wise decision for not declaring any Jedi and Sith as most powerful in his book (The Essential Reader's Companion) covering entire Star Wars history. He did pointed out that Luke mastered the Force. However, several Sith Lords also mastered the Force as per latest canon update.

 

 

You need to learn a lot about Vitiate, it seems. Vitiate, even in essence form (his weakest point), heavily damaged the Dark Temple in his final effort to kill HoT by attempting to crush him beneath the rubble. Also, Vitiate's powers have galactic reach.

 

That's not entirely sure you guys are making a lot of assumptions... its possible that the energy from leaving the voice caused that see this is the issue with Vitiate Fans they assume way to much about his abilities rather then going off of what was actually shown. If he was truly able to use the force everywhere the hero of tython would never have escaped everything would have collapsed on him or vitiate would have just choked him to death right there.... but he didn't because he couldn't with the loss of the body he is weak and unable to do much at all.... meaning he needs a physical body to do his best stuff and his voices or his physical bodies have been easily defeated by the hero and the Wrath... so ultimately no Vit doesn't even deserve a top 5 spot let alone a number 4.

[MyDarkSunshine]

but he didn't because he couldn't with the loss of the body he is weak and unable to do much at all.... meaning he needs a physical body to do his best stuff and his voices or his physical bodies have been easily defeated by the hero and the Wrath... so ultimately no Vit doesn't even deserve a top 5 spot let alone a number 4.

 

The fact he not only survived the loss of a physical body (and has done so more than once), but was able to bring down sections of a temple whilst departing is impressive, and doesn't really fall under "he is weak and unable to do much at all". It might not have been a direct, focused assault but it does show large amounts of power. Also, I don't remember ever "easily" defeating him as the Hero of Tython, in fact that fight was originally so challenging many players had to bring a friend. Game mechanics aside, it is highly doubtful the Hero found the victory at all easy; let us also not forget this is a Jedi more powerful than Satele Shan (by her own admission), the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, and an almost peerless swordsman in the order. The Sith Warrior is also, from what I gather, several notches above the rank and file of the Sith, being powerful/skilled enough to become the Emperor's Wrath. Let us also not forget that against the Hero, Vitiate faced an enemy that excelled where he was weakest (saber combat) and who was well versed in interrupting/interfering with force moves and that was completely immune to mind control due to a Force ghost, and against the Sith Warrior Vitiate was arguably trying to lose. You severely underestimate not only Vitiate, but the opposition he faced.

Edited June 17, 2013 by MyDarkSunshine

[Kaedusz]

...

 

Quality>Quantity.The little Vitiate have shown gives stronger and lasting impression than the tons of little :used this ability to kill that,deflected this,used the force to do this,ect with which older movie and post ep6 EU characters are overspoiled.

 

And i am not even a fan of him.He is an ultimate and all consuming evil and transcends(in a bad way) the sith,which i am fan of.To compare him on equal grounds to anyone who does not have a tomb on Korriban,Yavin 4,Dromund Kaas or is Sidious, is just crazy.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Kaedusz

[S_W_LeGenD]

That's not entirely sure you guys are making a lot of assumptions... its possible that the energy from leaving the voice caused that see this is the issue with Vitiate Fans they assume way to much about his abilities rather then going off of what was actually shown. If he was truly able to use the force everywhere the hero of tython would never have escaped everything would have collapsed on him or vitiate would have just choked him to death right there.... but he didn't because he couldn't with the loss of the body he is weak and unable to do much at all.... meaning he needs a physical body to do his best stuff and his voices or his physical bodies have been easily defeated by the hero and the Wrath... so ultimately no Vit doesn't even deserve a top 5 spot let alone a number 4.

Vitiate conveyed to HoT that he will try to kill him even after getting struck down. Dark Temple is a colossal structure, very strongly developed. Why you continue to overlook the fact that Vitiate was at his weakest point in his essence form? He still managed to heavily damage such a colossal structure. However, HoT have Force speed abilities or did you forget this?

 

Of-course, individuals are helpless in essence form; even Sidious was. Physical body is fundamental requirement to make it possible to properly channel and unleash Force powers.

 

The fact he not only survived the loss of a physical body (and has done so more than once), but was able to bring down sections of a temple whilst departing is impressive, and doesn't really fall under "he is weak and unable to do much at all". It might not have been a direct, focused assault but it does show large amounts of power. Also, I don't remember ever "easily" defeating him as the Hero of Tython, in fact that fight was originally so challenging many players had to bring a friend. Game mechanics aside, it is highly doubtful the Hero found the victory at all easy; let us also not forget this is a Jedi more powerful than Satele Shan (by her own admission), the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, and an almost peerless swordsman in the order. The Sith Warrior is also, from what I gather, several notches above the rank and file of the Sith, being powerful/skilled enough to become the Emperor's Wrath. Let us also not forget that against the Hero, Vitiate faced an enemy that excelled where he was weakest (saber combat) and who was well versed in interrupting/interfering with force moves and that was completely immune to mind control due to a Force ghost, and against the Sith Warrior Vitiate was arguably trying to lose. You severely underestimate not only Vitiate, but the opposition he faced.

Well said...

Edited June 17, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[tunewalker]

The fact he not only survived the loss of a physical body (and has done so more than once), but was able to bring down sections of a temple whilst departing is impressive, and doesn't really fall under "he is weak and unable to do much at all". It might not have been a direct, focused assault but it does show large amounts of power. Also, I don't remember ever "easily" defeating him as the Hero of Tython, in fact that fight was originally so challenging many players had to bring a friend. Game mechanics aside, it is highly doubtful the Hero found the victory at all easy; let us also not forget this is a Jedi more powerful than Satele Shan (by her own admission), the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, and an almost peerless swordsman in the order. The Sith Warrior is also, from what I gather, several notches above the rank and file of the Sith, being powerful/skilled enough to become the Emperor's Wrath. Let us also not forget that against the Hero, Vitiate faced an enemy that excelled where he was weakest (saber combat) and who was well versed in interrupting/interfering with force moves and that was completely immune to mind control due to a Force ghost, and against the Sith Warrior Vitiate was arguably trying to lose. You severely underestimate not only Vitiate, but the opposition he faced.

 

Yes the hero and the wrath are good FOR THEIR TIME no one would ever argue these guys could take on Windu or any one from the pre-qual era which is known for having the strongest jedi so if at his strongest he is defeated by these guys it doesn't matter what he can do at his weakest sure he may have been able to collapse the temple MAYBE we don't know what caused the temples collapse you are all ASSUMING it was VItiate which is bad to do there has never been a point that it was actually said to be him anything could have caused that collapse and had it not been Vitiate and after wards what did it cost him.... I don't know about you but Vit hasn't returned yet to continue his ultimate goal..... why not.... could it be he used up so much energy it takes him time to come back now.... again that doesn't show much power.

 

You take even 3 seconds under a micro scope and vitiate falls apart all over the place this is just a tip of issues I find with the guy I could go on for hours and hours in ways that Vitiate doesn't compare to likes of several sith/jedi from the prequels and the NJO its not even funny.

[MyDarkSunshine]

Vitiate's physical form dies. Immediately after the temple starts collapsing. I'm sorry, but it is a pretty big stretch to assume the two are not in some way connected. Especially if the following is true - it's been a while since I played the scene, but Vitiate certainly hadn't backed down:

 

Vitiate conveyed to HoT that he will try to kill him even after getting struck down.

 

So, Vitiate has suffered the loss of two physical hosts in a fairly short period of time (probably three). Given statements made by the JK storyline writer, he may even be gone for good. It isn't really surprising that after such little time between the end of act III and Makeb that Vitiate has yet to return.

 

How long did it take Sidious to return, having been defeated at the hands of Vader? (Honest question, I do not know; but I highly doubt it was instantaneous).

 

Yes the hero and the wrath are good FOR THEIR TIME no one would ever argue these guys could take on Windu or any one from the pre-qual era which is known for having the strongest jedi

 

They're good for their time in the same way Satele, Revan, Meetra, Nomi are good for their time; they are names that hold up fairly well over the ages. Sure, they may not be as good as Windu (although that is open to debate), but they have all achieved remarkable things.

 

You take even 3 seconds under a micro scope and vitiate falls apart all over the place this is just a tip of issues I find with the guy I could go on for hours and hours in ways that Vitiate doesn't compare to likes of several sith/jedi from the prequels and the NJO its not even funny.

 

Feel free to do so. It seems like S_W_LeGenD has, in a few posts, challenged preconceptions that have existed on these forums for a long time (well done!). Despite "anti-Vitiate" or "pro-Sidious" (note the air quotes, I use the terms loosely to give a basic idea as-to what I'm referring too) having challenged someone to present a reasoned, accurate assessment of Vitiate and his power for a long time, it has yet to be countered now it is here.

 

The whole "prequels & NJO are better" thing is followed in an over zealous manner. It may be true as a blanket statement but it is not without exception, in fact it is not uncommon for specific Force users before those times eclipse the majority of those after; Vitiate is one such exception.

[tunewalker]

Vitiate's physical form dies. Immediately after the temple starts collapsing. I'm sorry, but it is a pretty big stretch to assume the two are not in some way connected. Especially if the following is true - it's been a while since I played the scene, but Vitiate certainly hadn't backed down:

 

 

 

So, Vitiate has suffered the loss of two physical hosts in a fairly short period of time (probably three). Given statements made by the JK storyline writer, he may even be gone for good. It isn't really surprising that after such little time between the end of act III and Makeb that Vitiate has yet to return.

 

How long did it take Sidious to return, having been defeated at the hands of Vader? (Honest question, I do not know; but I highly doubt it was instantaneous).

 

 

 

They're good for their time in the same way Satele, Revan, Meetra, Nomi are good for their time; they are names that hold up fairly well over the ages. Sure, they may not be as good as Windu (although that is open to debate), but they have all achieved remarkable things.

 

 

 

Feel free to do so. It seems like S_W_LeGenD has, in a few posts, challenged preconceptions that have existed on these forums for a long time (well done!). Despite "anti-Vitiate" or "pro-Sidious" (note the air quotes, I use the terms loosely to give a basic idea as-to what I'm referring too) having challenged someone to present a reasoned, accurate assessment of Vitiate and his power for a long time, it has yet to be countered now it is here.

 

The whole "prequels & NJO are better" thing is followed in an over zealous manner. It may be true as a blanket statement but it is not without exception, in fact it is not uncommon for specific Force users before those times eclipse the majority of those after; Vitiate is one such exception.

 

Its just as big of a stretch to assume he did as it is to do so that he didn't if you played dark side JK you will see that its possible the collapse was actually caused by you and not him. So its just to much of an assumption that he was the one to do so. We need to avoid as many assumptions as possible when thinking about these things. As such the lack of statement could mean the temple was just destabilized by all the lightning and force pushing and what not that happened and had nothing to do with Vitiate in his astral form other then it just leaving the body after all the explosion when Sidious was thrown off the balcony was actually not a reactor explosion but an explosion of Dark side energy as sidious left the body I always assumed it was the same for Vitiate. Also the main fact here is he was already beaten twice..... that alone says a lot. And it took Sidious 5 years to return I believe it was. but the difference is Sidious always had to have a body and people are claiming Vitiate is always technicaly some form of spirit or something able to move across the galaxy. I wanted to point out that in that state he was actually incredibly weak and NEEDS a body like any one else and his powers while in that body are limited to what the body can withstand. He cant use more power then the body is able to take...... Something Caedus can do. And since we have already seen his body be defeated by 2 people we can draw a conclusion about how many others that can defeat him in his prime including ALL of the Banite Sith, Caedus, Windu, hell I would put him closer to that of Plo Koon and those of his lvl a master YES but one of true power at the lvls shown by the best of the prequel and the NJO no.

Edited June 17, 2013 by tunewalker

[TyboJames]

To be fair, Windu's strength and abilities are such a mystery to us. He took down Sidious with ease in Lightsaber Combat, which we knew was his specialty, and he was able to repel and control Sidious's force attacks. The only reason Windu didn't end the Sith right then and there was because Anakin is a ****.

[Wolfninjajedi]

To be fair, Windu's strength and abilities are such a mystery to us. He took down Sidious with ease in Lightsaber Combat, which we knew was his specialty, and he was able to repel and control Sidious's force attacks. The only reason Windu didn't end the Sith right then and there was because Anakin is a ****.

 

Except no he didn't take Sidious down with ease, the two were fighting at a stalemate it wasn't until Anakin was near that Windu drew Anakin's fear(well darkness really) from him and was able to gain the upperhand(among also other things). His lighting was BENDING Mace's saber back towards him, Sidious could all by all acounts just have killed Windu but instead he wanted Anakin to come on over to the darkside by helping him kill Windu. More to that Windu wasn't even using his own strength and ability during that duel, he was also drawing on the strength from Sidious to augment his own abilities.

 

If anything Vapaad was the only reason Windu lasted as long as he did, not so much his actual skill.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[StarSquirrel]

I feel bad being a bit late here but I'd like to throw in my opinion.

 

3. Jacen Solo/ Darth Cadeus

Master of the traditional jedi teachings of Luke Skywalker & master/user of a multitude of force techings from other force sects, and the sith, ect... This as well as his Skywalker lineage cement him as a solid 3rd in my opinion.

 

4. Yoda

He's yoda... but even still, he was by far the greatest Jedi of the greatest age of the Jedi. He taught the greatest force user ever, and has a list of accomplishments longer than my arm.

 

5. Mace Windu

Pretty much invicible against Sith (very nearly killed our #2) and another of the greatest jedi of the PT era, I rank him at 5.

 

6. Vitiate

Immortal, ruled the Sith for centuries, and defeated Revan at what could be considered his greatest (then imprisoned him for another 300 years). He could possess other force users, destroy people's minds with his mere presence, and jump bodies (sort of).

 

7. Kreia

I don't believe Kreia has all that much in terms of grand scale force power at her disposal, but she far and away has some of the best force manipulation and finesse of all force users.

 

I don't have anyone for 8-10 who has distinguished themselves enough for me to cite them solidly into that position.

[TyboJames]

Except no he didn't take Sidious down with ease, the two were fighting at a stalemate it wasn't until Anakin was near that Windu drew Anakin's fear(well darkness really) from him and was able to gain the upperhand(among also other things). His lighting was BENDING Mace's saber back towards him, Sidious could all by all acounts just have killed Windu but instead he wanted Anakin to come on over to the darkside by helping him kill Windu. More to that Windu wasn't even using his own strength and ability during that duel, he was also drawing on the strength from Sidious to augment his own abilities.

 

If anything Vapaad was the only reason Windu lasted as long as he did, not so much his actual skill.

 

How does the use of Vapaad not make it skill? It is describe as the most intense lightsaber form, seeing how you not only need to know it, but you need to be it. You need to feel and enjoy the fight. I don't see how this takes away from Windu's skill.

 

And can you show me in canon where it states the Sidious gave up on purpose? Not doubting you, but I have always been under the assumption that Sidious simply could not go on, which is exactly what he stated.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Vitiate's physical form dies. Immediately after the temple starts collapsing. I'm sorry, but it is a pretty big stretch to assume the two are not in some way connected. Especially if the following is true - it's been a while since I played the scene, but Vitiate certainly hadn't backed down:

The Temple damaging feat takes place right after the Essence ejects from the host. Yes, he didn't give up easily.

 

So, Vitiate has suffered the loss of two physical hosts in a fairly short period of time (probably three). Given statements made by the JK storyline writer, he may even be gone for good. It isn't really surprising that after such little time between the end of act III and Makeb that Vitiate has yet to return.

Good point; that is certainly a terrible setback. The Force was no longer with him but rather against him.

 

Though he may return; we have 45 more levels to go in the current storylines. A hint is that his Children continue to hear his whispers after his presumed demise.

 

How long did it take Sidious to return, having been defeated at the hands of Vader? (Honest question, I do not know; but I highly doubt it was instantaneous).

He was in very bad situation too during that time; other Sith spirits helped him to reach a suitable host. Once resurrected, he was very weak and spent ample time on Byss to recover his strength.

 

They're good for their time in the same way Satele, Revan, Meetra, Nomi are good for their time; they are names that hold up fairly well over the ages. Sure, they may not be as good as Windu (although that is open to debate), but they have all achieved remarkable things.

Well said...

 

Feel free to do so. It seems like S_W_LeGenD has, in a few posts, challenged preconceptions that have existed on these forums for a long time (well done!). Despite "anti-Vitiate" or "pro-Sidious" (note the air quotes, I use the terms loosely to give a basic idea as-to what I'm referring too) having challenged someone to present a reasoned, accurate assessment of Vitiate and his power for a long time, it has yet to be countered now it is here.

 

The whole "prequels & NJO are better" thing is followed in an over zealous manner. It may be true as a blanket statement but it is not without exception, in fact it is not uncommon for specific Force users before those times eclipse the majority of those after; Vitiate is one such exception.

Thank you.

[TyboJames]

Isn't Battle Meditation one of the more rare and powerful force abilities? I would assume force users such as Bastila Shan and Jacen Solo, who used this to large proportions, should be somewhere on this list.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Its just as big of a stretch to assume he did as it is to do so that he didn't if you played dark side JK you will see that its possible the collapse was actually caused by you and not him. So its just to much of an assumption that he was the one to do so. We need to avoid as many assumptions as possible when thinking about these things. As such the lack of statement could mean the temple was just destabilized by all the lightning and force pushing and what not that happened and had nothing to do with Vitiate in his astral form other then it just leaving the body after all the explosion when Sidious was thrown off the balcony was actually not a reactor explosion but an explosion of Dark side energy as sidious left the body I always assumed it was the same for Vitiate. Also the main fact here is he was already beaten twice..... that alone says a lot.

Vitiate actually damages the structure in both scenarios. You have made a good point though that all those devastating Force powers unleashed during the actual battle possibly weakened the structure to a certain degree but it began to collapse after Vitiate warned HoT that he will not allow him to leave alive and ejected from his host in the form of essence. The whole place already began to shake while VItiate ejected from his host, if I remember correctly.

 

Also, why do you assume that HoT would attempt to collapse the structure since he already had struck down the Emperor? It would be useless exercise for him.

 

And it took Sidious 5 years to return I believe it was. but the difference is Sidious always had to have a body and people are claiming Vitiate is always technicaly some form of spirit or something able to move across the galaxy. I wanted to point out that in that state he was actually incredibly weak and NEEDS a body like any one else and his powers while in that body are limited to what the body can withstand. He cant use more power then the body is able to take...... Something Caedus can do. And since we have already seen his body be defeated by 2 people we can draw a conclusion about how many others that can defeat him in his prime including ALL of the Banite Sith, Caedus, Windu, hell I would put him closer to that of Plo Koon and those of his lvl a master YES but one of true power at the lvls shown by the best of the prequel and the NJO no.

Vitiate didn't wanted to kill Sith Warrior; he rather needed him for his own ends; also, his defeat at the hands of HoT is circumstantial. In good/prepared condition, he is virtually unstoppable force since he packs lot of power.

Edited June 17, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[LordQordisz]

If anything Vapaad was the only reason Windu lasted as long as he did, not so much his actual skill.

 

True, if anything, Windu was using his own abilities, aka, Vapaad, in that fight. It's funny how people use this skill of Mace's to diminish him. Whereas, Windu was beat by the Emperor after getting double teamed. Imagine that, getting rolf-stomped by the son of the force and the most powerful Sith. Give Mace some credit here. He had no shot at that point.

[Beniboybling]

Sidious and Vitiate deserve TOP position due to the conditions these two guys reached; their powers had galactic reach. They are logically more powerful then any Jedi.

 

Luke and Yoda are tied in canon for most powerful Jedi accolade. However, it is unclear at the moment that how some ancients will pan out in the big picture. We have names such as Kaedan, Satele, Revan, HoT and Bersen'thor. In addition, their are some Sith Lords who have better showings then Yoda so I personally believe that he should be below Luke.

Luke defeated Sidious at the pinnacle of his power, yes it should be noted he had the aid of his sister but he had not even reached his full potential at that point. And the various feats he has performed are vast and impressive. He had the Force potential of the Chosen One yet unlike Anakin he achieved it.

 

Yoda, is equally impressive, he was the most powerful Jedi in the Jedi Order and one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in history. And while Vitiate is indeed powerful I think his strength in the light would be enough to overwhelm him. Let's remember that this is Yoda who absorbed and almost overpowered Darth Sidious with his own lightning.

 

Oh, and something I stumbled across from the fabled 'Prof. Walsh' ooooh!

Dear Jedi,

Who are the most powerful Force-users ever? I know many people think Vader was one of them, but honestly wasn’t he so great because there weren’t many Jedi who could challenge him? What about ancient Siths like Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd? Their power affected the galaxy centuries after their death.

 

Dear Dedalek,

You would be incorrect about Darth Vader; Darth Vader had, according to George Lucas, the highest Force Potential. His Force Potential however was damaged when his body was. There is no definitive list of who the most powerful Force Users were, but here are my top 5 and why I ranked them as such:

 

Luke Skywalker – Luke is the most powerful Force User we have ever seen. He is head and shoulders above all others at this time. The amazing things that he has been able to do dwarf everyone else, and also we know that he has the potential Darth Vader had but didn’t destroy his body the way Vader did.

 

Darth Sidious – Emperor Palpatine was, according to canon, the most powerful Sith ever, with the exception of Vader if his power was realized. As such we have to give him a high position on this list. Palpatine was defeated by Luke in a test of both Lightsaber combat and Force abilities though and was found lacking. Thus I put him right below Luke in terms of sheer power.

 

Yoda – I met him in a swamp down on Dagobah, where it bubbles all the time like a giant carbonated soda… Y-O-D-A Yoda. We have to give it up for the muppet master who taught us all that size matters not. Able to match Darth Sidious blow for blow, and even overpower him in a pinch Yoda only “lost” to Sidious due to his small stature. As such Yoda must rank in on this list.

 

Darth Vader – Vader was said to be somewhere around 80% of Sidious’ power, and he would have been stronger if he had not ignored the benefit of the high ground. While he is no slouch, he simply can’t rank any higher than this on my personal list.

 

Nomi Sunrider – I have to give Nomi her proper respect. She is a little known character outside of the high EU circles but she is one bad mamma jamma. Nomi Sunrider was able to cut a Dark Sider off from the Force until they completely repented, a feat normally requiring a whole group of Jedi Masters. Had she been the main character in KoTOR II she would have mopped the floor with Sion and Nihilus with ease.

 

Hardcore fans will note a couple of names are left off this list, the reason for that is because there are specifically two I did not consider as valid entries. That is because one is a planet and we have no clue what the other is supposed to be. That would be the planet Zonema Sekot and the creature known as Abeloth. I don’t count them under the general term of Force User.

Now I can't say I agree with all his positions but he does make some interesting points.

 

But I think we can move onto No 5. now and I'd like to refocus the purpose of this thread.

 

Contenders for No. 5 in my opinion would be: Darth Plagueis, Galen Marek, Vader, Caedus, Jaina Solo, Thon?

[Beniboybling]

The fact he not only survived the loss of a physical body (and has done so more than once), but was able to bring down sections of a temple whilst departing is impressive, and doesn't really fall under "he is weak and unable to do much at all". It might not have been a direct, focused assault but it does show large amounts of power. Also, I don't remember ever "easily" defeating him as the Hero of Tython, in fact that fight was originally so challenging many players had to bring a friend. Game mechanics aside, it is highly doubtful the Hero found the victory at all easy; let us also not forget this is a Jedi more powerful than Satele Shan (by her own admission), the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, and an almost peerless swordsman in the order. The Sith Warrior is also, from what I gather, several notches above the rank and file of the Sith, being powerful/skilled enough to become the Emperor's Wrath. Let us also not forget that against the Hero, Vitiate faced an enemy that excelled where he was weakest (saber combat) and who was well versed in interrupting/interfering with force moves and that was completely immune to mind control due to a Force ghost, and against the Sith Warrior Vitiate was arguably trying to lose. You severely underestimate not only Vitiate, but the opposition he faced.

I'd like to point out that according to canon Vitiate would outrank the Hero of Tython:

 

"The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen." ~ SWTOR Codex Entry.

 

So I think he lost of one of two reasons, or a combination of both:

 

1. It was a Voice and not Vitiate and we would therefore assume that the Voice is not as powerful.

 

2. Vitiate, as Tol Braga said, was weakened by the series of events that led up to this battle e.g. the loss of his Children and the First Son, the loss of his Voice.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Luke defeated Sidious at the pinnacle of his power, yes it should be noted he had the aid of his sister but he had not even reached his full potential at that point. And the various feats he has performed are vast and impressive. He had the Force potential of the Chosen One yet unlike Anakin he achieved it.

Sidious made a miscalculation of engaging him with his martial skills and lost. If it came to powers, he would have destroyed Luke without issues. Sidious's most lethal power is incredibly destructive and no natural individual can survive it.

 

As far as the duels are concerned, you know that these can go either way depending upon the circumstances. Even Abeloth had lost a few fights to Luke but she was far more powerful then him. So power alone does not determines success in combat situations depending upon the circumstances.

 

Since you are ranking characters power wise, Vitiate and Sidious should go on the top.

 

Yoda, is equally impressive, he was the most powerful Jedi in the Jedi Order and one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in history. And while Vitiate is indeed powerful I think his strength in the light would be enough to overwhelm him. Let's remember that this is Yoda who absorbed and almost overpowered Darth Sidious with his own lightning.

Revan attempted that feat against Vitiate and it didn't work. Revan's defensive capabilities are extraordinary; the manner in which he handled extremely potent FLS of Nyriss speaks volumes. Nyriss's FLS was potent enough to utterly destroy powerful individuals such as Scourge and Meetra simultaneously had she got the chance to unleash it on them, even herself with her guard-up. Keep in mind that both Scourge and Meetra tolerated bursts of lightning earlier that otherwise reduced soldiers to charred smoking husks in an instant. Nyriss's lightning capabilities are already elite by current Star Wars standards and Vitiate was on a whole new level in comparison to her. I don't honestly see Yoda surviving against Vitiate in a fair duel.

 

Oh, and something I stumbled across from the fabled 'Prof. Walsh' ooooh!

Now I can't say I agree with all his positions but he does make some interesting points.

I have read all that. Current canonical situation may challenge all that.

 

For example Tulak Hord's greatest showing is superior to that of Yoda's greatest showing. So where would this place Sith Emperor and Sidious in comparison to him? Imagine.

 

But I think we can move onto No 5. now and I'd like to refocus the purpose of this thread.

 

Contenders for No. 5 in my opinion would be: Darth Plagueis, Galen Marek, Vader, Caedus, Jaina Solo, Thon?

Plagueis and Caedus may deserve a spot each. Also. what about Sith Warrior, Darth Marr, Darth Thanaton, Darth Traya, Darth Nihilus, Darth Malgus, Marka Ragnos, Tulak Hord and Darth Nox?

Edited June 17, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Beniboybling]

Sidious made a miscalculation of engaging him with his martial skills and lost. If it came to powers, he would have destroyed Luke without issues. Sidious's most lethal power is incredibly destructive.

 

As far as the duels are concerned, you know that these can go either way depending upon the circumstances. Even Abeloth had lost a few fights to Luke but she was far more powerful then him. So power alone does not determines success in combat situations depending upon the circumstances.

 

Since you are ranking characters power wise, Vitiate and Sidious should go on the top.

Luke severed Sidious from the Force... nuff said.

 

Regardless, he achieved the Force potential of the Chosen One. And we all know that the Chosen One outranks just about everyone. Sidious himself realizes that Vader could have become more powerful than him if not for the mental and physical wounds he had suffered. Luke has that power, no restraints.

Revan attempted that feat against Vitiate and it didn't work. Revan's defensive capabilities are extraordinary; the manner in which he handled extremely potent FLS of Nyriss speaks volumes. Nyriss's FLS was potent enough to utterly destroy powerful individuals such as Scourge and Meetra simultaneously had she got the chance to unleash it on them, even herself with her guard-up. Keep in mind that both Scourge and Meetra tolerated bursts of lightning earlier that otherwise reduced soldiers to charred smoking husks in an instant. Nyriss's lightning capabilities are already elite by current Star Wars standards and Vitiate was on a whole new level in comparison to her. I don't honestly see Yoda surviving against Vitiate in a fair duel.

Not sure what Revan has to do with this, as powerful as he is his power is eclipsed by that of Yoda. Revan could not overcome Vitiate because he simply was not powerful enough, but clearly he was more powerful than Nyriss. Sidious' lightining is seriously fierce and IMO more powerful than Vitiate's and yet Yoda was able to overcome it. Indicating that at that stage he was more powerful in the Force than Sidious, but of course Sidious grew stronger.

I have read all that. Current canonical situation may challenge all that.

 

For example Tulak Hord's greatest showing is superior to that of Yoda's greatest showing. So where would this place Sith Emperor and Sidious in comparison to him? Imagine.

What exactly did Tulak Hord do? Learn to sap the Force energy of those he killed? The lowliest of Sith assassins of the Trayus Academy were capable of that. Yoda on the other hand has proved himself against Darth Sidious (and arguably overwhelmed him) as has had just as much time as Vitiate to delve deeply into the light side of the Force.

Plagueis and Caedus may deserve entries. Also. what about Sith Warrior, Darth Marr, Darth Thanaton, Darth Traya, Darth Nihilus, Darth Malgus and Darth Nox?

Malgus would be the only contender here, given that it took the combined efforts of the Empire/Republic strike team to defeat him. So that knocks out Nox and the Emperor's Wrath. Darth Traya while powerful, is outranked by Meetra Surik and Revan who in turn are outranked by Malgus at least in my humble opinion. And in turn I think Malgus is more powerful than Marr. Darth Thanaton can crawl back into the hole my Sith Inquisitor kicked him into and Darth Nihilus is only powerful because of the wound of the Force inside of him. Strip him of that and he is just a man.