The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

[Kaedusz]

Imo it would be easier if they are devided in After New Sith Wars and before New Sith wars.And then these two columns can be divided into jedi and sith.And then you can compare the top 3 of each one of the 4 columns,to create a top 12 (or something)

 

When you get together all force users you can put several force users in 1 place at a time,and everything is very controversial.

 

Since the counting has started .Imo number four is between Tulak Hord,Exar Kun,Satalle Shan,Meetra Surik,Darth Nox and the Wrath.

Exar Kun or Tulak Hord most propably.(or Darth Nox)(or Satalle Shan),as i said its hard.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

I agree with you and Wolf. Caedus hasn't been consistent.

 

But onto number 4. This spot is a split for me between Exar Kun, Satele Shan, Mace Windu, Darth Vader, Darth Caedus, Kyp Durron, and Mara Jade Skywalker (along with a host of other peeps).

 

Give me some time to make a decision.

I'd swap Vader for Starkiller, among others, he was powerful but his force potential physically and mentally crippled. And the only reason Starkiller beat him on two occasions was superior Force ability.

 

Mara Jade Skywalker I would also be hesitant on, again no expert but she was a Hand of the Emperor. If she was truly that powerful would Sidious have not considered her a replacement for Vader?

 

Mace Windu would also not make my list, an exceptional duelist no doubt, but owes much of his feats to Vaapad - without that? His Force ability is somewhat lacking.

 

Kyp Durron had his mind dominated by Exar Kun's ghost so that's kinda an insta-lose for him.

 

Personally I think the Sith Emperor takes 4th place. His feats far outweigh all but Kun's abilities, and even then there is some disparity. After all, even with the aid of ritual, dominating the will of 8,000 Sith Lords is no mean feat. Nor is overthrowing a Sith Lord at the age of 13.

 

But what of Marka Ragnos? Or should we not consider him for lack of information?

 

EDIT: I mean given that Vitiate is the most powerful Sith in the Sith Empire he would fry Vader, defeat Satele Shan, and dominate Durron's mind. Can't really see him being less powerful than Mara Jade, or Mace Windu - else they'd be doing some seriosuly impressive things. Which leaves Caedus and Kun.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

No, no actually 4th does go to Caedus, while he did show inconsistencies he was powerful with what he did show. Besides looking around the books showing with Caedus, seem to show a lot of PIS, CIS and WIS in them. But what Caedus has shown, shows him to be very powerful.

But what has Caedus actually done? *honest question*

[Wolfninjajedi]

Swapping Vader for Galen? Really?...

 

But what has Caedus actually done?

 

Ok, ok I don't know what to think of Caedus, I can't really find any info and most of which just seems to boiling down on his inconsistencies...however I do know that he does know Fold Space/Battle Meditation. He did also incap Ben with Force Lighting. But other then that, everything just seems to point to his consistencies in regards to what he is. Due to that, then I guess 4th would go for Vader as he has shown being more consistent with his abilities.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

I'd swap Vader for Starkiller, among others, he was powerful but his force potential physically and mentally crippled. And the only reason Starkiller beat him on two occasions was superior Force ability.

 

Perhaps, but it was not easy, and Vader wasn't in his prime then.

 

Mara Jade Skywalker I would also be hesitant on, again no expert but she was a Hand of the Emperor. If she was truly that powerful would Sidious have not considered her a replacement for Vader?

 

She became much more powerful as a Jedi Master.

 

Mace Windu would also not make my list, an exceptional duelist no doubt, but owes much of his feats to Vaapad - without that? His Force ability is somewhat lacking.

 

Force Crush? Shoving an AT-TE with ease? Maybe not number 4, but probably top 10.

 

Kyp Durron had his mind dominated by Exar Kun's ghost so that's kinda an insta-lose for him.

 

When he was just starting out.

 

Personally I think the Sith Emperor takes 4th place. His feats far outweigh all but Kun's abilities, and even then there is some disparity. After all, even with the aid of ritual, dominating the will of 8,000 Sith Lords is no mean feat. Nor is overthrowing a Sith Lord at the age of 13.

 

Maybe, but I don't think he could best Exar Kun in battle.

 

But what of Marka Ragnos? Or should we not consider him for lack of information?

 

Too much of an unknown. He needs to be further explored before a definitive placement could be made.

[Beniboybling]

Maybe, but I don't think he could best Exar Kun in battle.

Just like to address this, as the rest is up in the air right now. This is Force abilities, so lightsaber ability doesn't really come into it.

 

And Wolf, while Vader is powerful, he simply couldn't challenge the likes of Vitiate who would subdue him with Force lightning. He may have had great potential, but that potential was never reached. He was both mentally and physically handicapped. And while I'm happy to admit that Vader is a superior duelist to Marek he has shown an incapability to deal with Starkiller's Force abilities. If he did truly have a superior Force ability, he would have resisted his telekinetic assault.

[Warren-Stride]

So is this "Most Powerful Force Users" or "Most Powerful Use of the Force"?

 

Because Mace Windu is a pretty darn powerful Force user. Dueling ability does translate to power, especially when comparing Jedi and Sith. But if we're only talking about feats accomplished with the Force it's a different story.

 

EDIT: If we're going for the REAL most powerful Force users, everything should be taken into account. Including lightsaber ability.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Beniboybling]

So is this "Most Powerful Force Users" or "Most Powerful Use of the Force"?

 

Because Mace Windu is a pretty darn powerful Force user. Dueling ability does translate to power, especially when comparing Jedi and Sith. But if we're only talking about feats accomplished with the Force it's a different story.

Well they are one and the same aren't they? I'm not necessary saying who lifted the biggest rock but who lets say in a tutanimis lock (catching lighting etc.) would win.

 

But in my eyes, much of Windu's dueling ability owes itself to Vaapad, as he was not so great a duelist (though still pretty great) against Jedi.

[Aurbere]

Just like to address this, as the rest is up in the air right now. This is Force abilities, so lightsaber ability doesn't really come into it.

 

And Wolf, while Vader is powerful, he simply couldn't challenge the likes of Vitiate who would subdue him with Force lightning. He may have had great potential, but that potential was never reached. He was both mentally and physically handicapped. And while I'm happy to admit that Vader is a superior duelist to Marek he has shown an incapability to deal with Starkiller's Force abilities. If he did truly have a superior Force ability, he would have resisted his telekinetic assault.

 

Force abilities, I think, is a tie between Kun and Vitiate. The mental domination thing is the only thing in Vitiate's favor. Exar Kun can unleash blasts of pure dark side energy that can kill Sithspawn in a single hit. Exar Kun has shown more raw power than Vitiate. He was a master of Sith Alchemy and Sith Magic, as well.

 

If anything, Vitiate just barely gets knocked off the number 4 spot.

 

But onto Vader, Plagueis believed that cybernetics were only a temporary hurdle to overcome, and Sidious believed that Vader's only limits were his mental ones. He was not physically hampered, just mentally hampered.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Just like to address this, as the rest is up in the air right now. This is Force abilities, so lightsaber ability doesn't really come into it.

 

And Wolf, while Vader is powerful, he simply couldn't challenge the likes of Vitiate who would subdue him with Force lightning. He may have had great potential, but that potential was never reached. He was both mentally and physically handicapped. And while I'm happy to admit that Vader is a superior duelist to Marek he has shown an incapability to deal with Starkiller's Force abilities. If he did truly have a superior Force ability, he would have resisted his telekinetic assault.

 

And yet how powerful is Vitiate's lighting? If it can be blocked by a Jedi Knight and a Master, am sure Vader would be able to counter it at first enough to close the gap and kill Vitiate before any charging. During the JK and Vitiate duel, the JK was blocking his lighting so I don't see any reason why Vader couldn't do the same.

 

As for Vader and Marek, Marek got the 1st fight however should note this is Vader still in his early stages. Their 2nd fight Vader had pretty much won that however, Vader only lost because of 3 things..

 

1. He wasn't interested in killing Galen

 

2. Galen took Vader by surprise, when Vader had him disarmed and at his mercy.

 

3. Galen aimed for the weak spot made by Juno who had used one of Marek's sabers to cut a hole in Vader's chest panel.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

But in my eyes, much of Windu's dueling ability owes itself to Vaapad, as he was not so great a duelist (though still pretty great) against Jedi.

 

Well, I think people use Windu being an equal to Dooku as a means to slander him, when it should only be used to boost Dooku's dueling rep.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Aurbere, Kun only was able to do those kinds of Force Blasts because he was in the temple where the gauntlets were charged by pillars of energy(if I recall right). Ya...see just found it..

 

http://s16.postimg.org/lxwxdfyqd/kunspower.jpg

 

When he left, the Blasts weren't as powerful, so you could chalk it up to the gauntlets being amped given the location and upon leaving said location they weren't that powerful to kill with one shot, though that isn't to say Kun's Force Blasts aren't powerful....though really should we even give Kun that one when the Gauntlets were the ones making the Force Blasts?

 

Because the Gauntlets are the reason, not so much Kun himself otherwise why would he need them?

 

Edit: Though really it just hit me, that I don't think we will ever be able to make a definite list of most powerful Force Users because there are so many things to look at. The only ones that we know for sure(including everyone) are The Ones, Celestials, Abeloth, Sidious and Luke.

 

Edit edit: Oh and Yoda.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Aurbere, Kun only was able to do those kinds of Force Blasts because he was in the temple where the gauntlets were charged by pillars of energy(if I recall right). Ya...see just found it..

 

http://s16.postimg.org/lxwxdfyqd/kunspower.jpg

 

When he left, the Blasts weren't as powerful, so you could chalk it up to the gauntlets being amped given the location and upon leaving said location they weren't that powerful to kill with one shot, though that isn't to say Kun's Force Blasts aren't powerful....though really should we even give Kun that one when the Gauntlets were the ones making the Force Blasts?

 

Because the Gauntlets are the reason, not so much Kun himself otherwise why would he need them?

 

He used a less powerful version to incapacitate Aleema Keto. So he's not reliant on an amp, but they aren't as powerful. They are still very powerful, just not insta-kills.

 

Edit: Though really it just hit me, that I don't think we will ever be able to make a definite list of most powerful Force Users because there are so many things to look at. The only ones that we know for sure(including everyone) are The Ones, Celestials, Abeloth, Sidious and Luke.

 

That's what I said from the very beginning. It's just going to come down to opinions as we go on.

 

Edit: Just a question, where do you find those images?

Edited June 16, 2013 by Aurbere

[Wolfninjajedi]

He used a less powerful version to incapacitate Aleema Keto. So he's not reliant on an amp, but they aren't as powerful. They are still very powerful, just not insta-kills.

 

 

 

That's what I said from the very beginning. It's just going to come down to opinions as we go on.

 

Edit: Just a question, where do you find those images?

 

Why would he just incapacitate Aleema, when he was wanting to kill both her and Ulic? But anyway where I find, I just look around the Internet. But still it is the gloves doing.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Why would he just incapacitate Aleema, when he was wanting to kill both her and Ulic? But anyway where I find, I just look around the Internet.

 

I don't know why he would just incapacitate her. Probably just to get her out of the way so he could duel Ulic. I can't say for sure.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I don't know why he would just incapacitate her. Probably just to get her out of the way so he could duel Ulic. I can't say for sure.

 

He could have done that via killing her too. But I digress...sorry Beni, I just dunno how this is all gonna work out.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

He could have done that via killing her too. But I digress...sorry Beni, I just dunno how this is all gonna work out.

 

Yeah. It's likely that his Force blasts aren't as powerful away from areas strong in the dark side, but they are still considerable enough to incapacitate others.

 

Regardless, if we are still on the number 4 spot, then it should be Caedus or someone like that. I don't know. Like I said, there are so many that can fit into a single spot, it eventually just comes down to opinions.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Aurbere

[Wolfninjajedi]

Yeah. It's likely that his Force blasts aren't as powerful away from areas strong in the dark side, but they are still considerable enough to incapacitate others.

 

Regardless, if we are still on the number 4 spot, then it should be Caedus or someone like that. I don't know. Like I said, there are so many that can fit into a single spot, it eventually just comes down to opinions.

 

Well if the lil **** wasn't inconsistent he could be in the 4th spot but I dunno. Damn writers.....I mean I would place him on the 4th spot, given his actual showings and disregarding all the PIS/CIS/WIS. However his actual shows are kinda....meh, his biggest showing was him fighting against Luke but Luke could have just ended the duel as I recall, and Luke was wounded wasn't he?

 

He does know Fold Space/Battle Med and Lighting, so he does have some impressive abilities. He also has moved rather fast too, though his speed feats too have been questionable.

 

In fact with all this, I say we just remove Caedus, his character is completely off the wall.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Maullum]

I wouldn't put Ceadeus in 4th. If you think about it, Luke almost defeated him, and if it hadn't been for Ben turning almost dark and scaring him, he would have. Jaina defeated her twin at the height of his power and even Mara had to be killed via dirty trick.

 

From what I know of Jacen Solo, reading the books and all that, he got a surprisingly large amount of power through the living force. His compassionate qualities actually helped rather than hindered him. When he turned to the dark side, he rejected his compassion and curiosity (when it came to other creatures and stuff). Even from the Young Jedi Knight series we see his ability to understand even the most complex creatures, and that was how he was able to escape the Yuuzhan Vong (by controlling their own creature-tools and befriending a World Brain). Rejecting all of that and turning to the dark side wouldn't really make him more powerful...

 

Most of this is my understanding, and I could be very wrong of course.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wasn't Luke amping Jaina when she was fighting Caedus? At least the 1st time, the 2nd Caedus was distracted and let Jaina kill him. But again...Caedus is inconsistent so....I really don't know what to think of him. Edited June 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Darkondo]

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'm not an expert on Nihilus. I guess we could just exclude him based on him being a wound of this caliber.

 

Nihilus is a #0. Only 3 canonically confirmed characters have any kind of defense or survivability against his force drain (Meetra Surik, Visas Marr, and Darth Sion). Everyone else is sunk, not because Nihilus is the strongest (Sidious and Luke hold that distinction), but because hes a living black hole.

 

Without it, I don't think hes really much more powerful than Surik, hes still stronger since she needed Visas and MTP's help, but not by much at all.

[Darkondo]

Wasn't Luke amping Jaina when she was fighting Caedus? At least the 1st time, the 2nd Caedus was distracted and let Jaina kill him. But again...Caedus is inconsistent so....I really don't know what to think of him.

 

Luke was blinding Cadeus into thinking he was fighting Luke and not his sister, that's all I know about it atm.

[Beniboybling]

Concerning Exar Kun, did he not have an amulet on him at all times which allowed him to perform the Force blast? Regardless Vitiate once eliminated an entire dark council while not even present with a blast of Force energy. Ritual assisted? Probably. But are Exar Kun's powers not bolstered by amulet and ritual?

 

Both are clearly very knowledgeable and powerful in Sith magic. But Vitiate has had 1000+ years to study it. As for Vader blocking lightning, we're forgetting those Jedi were rendered unconscious. Vader would suffer a similar fate.

[Darkondo]

Meh, personally #4 should go to Exar Kun, being the most consistent of the rest out there.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Nihilus is a #0. Only 3 canonically confirmed characters have any kind of defense or survivability against his force drain (Meetra Surik, Visas Marr, and Darth Sion). Everyone else is sunk, not because Nihilus is the strongest (Sidious and Luke hold that distinction), but because hes a living black hole.

 

Without it, I don't think hes really much more powerful than Surik, hes still stronger since she needed Visas and MTP's help, but not by much at all.

 

Vader has a defense against Nihilus' drain too, learning from Ulic to withstand the Dark Reaper which was nothing more then a Force draining weapon.

 

Vader blocking lightning, we're forgetting those Jedi were rendered unconscious. Vader would suffer a similar fate.

 

Yes, but the JK and that one Jedi Master(forget his name) were able to block and resist his Lighting. Vitiate had to actually charge it to bring them down, during Vitiate's duel with the JK the JK was blocking his Lighting. Lets not forget that Vader does also have Force Barrier to shield himself.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi