Open-world PvE. Is it actually fun?

[Chicktopus]

This thread is specifically about open-world PvE play. I'm not happy with the appearance of PvE combat. It looks boring to viewers (I've had many comments from numerous onlookers about how tedious it appears), and it's a chore to kill anything. Shouldn't mobs be something you actively seek out to kill for fun rather than because they're a) in your way or b) drop item x?

 

Every time I'm slashing something with my lightsaber I feel I may as well be strolling up to it and asking slyly if it wouldn't mind having a lie down. Basically the same thing most of us experience after a night out with the girlfriend, or right before losing all of our teeth to that dentist who guaranteed us 'rock-bottom prices'. I avoid enemies because killing them is just a chore, and that's poor game design.

 

There's no "oomph" in the blows, no illusion you're causing the target any real bother until if falls over as if struck by the mortifying realisation that it's in a cubicle in the wrong gender's bathroom at a busy nightclub.

 

What would I propose? Honestly I'm not sure. Not without completely re-working the way PvE combat works anyway. Improving the animations to at least make it appear like most of the blows are being blocked/dodged in various ways might be a nice start, but I'm interested in the experience you guys have had with the look and feel of PvE play.

[TheNahash]

This thread is specifically about open-world PvE play. I'm not happy with the appearance of PvE combat. It looks boring to viewers (I've had many comments from numerous onlookers about how tedious it appears), and it's a chore to kill anything. Shouldn't mobs be something you actively seek out to kill for fun rather than because they're a) in your way or b) drop item x?.

 

I disagree 100%.

 

is what I consider tedious and lacking any "oomph" at all.

 

But the whole thing is quite subjective. Animations and the way combat feels are part of the appeal.

Personally, if I find animations (and the combat mechanics in general) tedious I don't even bother with the game.

Edited June 13, 2013 by TheNahash

[LordArtemis]

There are a few attacks that could use some "oomph", and a few that had that edge that was watered down for the sake of PVP.

 

But overall I think it's pretty good. One of the problems is that it's not active enough...wish they had auto-attack to fill in the pauses. Too much dead time in fighting animations, not to mention bad timing here and there.

[Chicktopus]

Each unto his own, then. I personally would find that combat style is far more action packed and appealing than pressing 3,3,R,E repeatedly until my opponent died any time I wanted to kill something.

[Chicktopus]

There are a few attacks that could use some "oomph", and a few that had that edge that was watered down for the sake of PVP.

 

The "oomph" factor I'm after here is not a damage issue, rather the visual appearance of the fight. My issue is that fights are very static, in that the two of you will stand facing each other waving sticks until one of you falls over.

[Zeppelin]

Welcome to the genre, enjoy your stay.

[LordArtemis]

The "oomph" factor I'm after here is not a damage issue, rather the visual appearance of the fight. My issue is that fights are very static, in that the two of you will stand facing each other waving sticks until one of you falls over.

 

Well, in all fairness that is pretty standard fare. I agree something like the intro vid combat, or perhaps the combat in TFU would have been great, but this is basically turn based combat.

 

There were many suggestion threads before launch trying to get them to make combat more active. They need auto-attack IMO to add more animations to the process.

[jamesvasquez]

I disagree 100%.

 

is what I consider tedious and lacking any "oomph" at all.

 

But the whole thing is quite subjective. Animations and the way combat feels are part of the appeal.

Personally, if I find animations (and the combat mechanics in general) tedious I don't even bother with the game.

 

Don't post videos of that game. My body can't handle the boredom.

[Merwanor]

The problem with combat in this game are all the strong and boss type enemies, they are boring to fight as you just stand there hitting them or shooting them for way to long. Unless they are lightsaber users and you play a lightsaber user. As I love the animations where they actually cross blades. And as a JK for instance, fighting all those lower level normal enemies are very fun to me, as it is fast and satisfying.

 

So the big problem I have with this game when it comes to combat is the boring fights against those strong enemies types. Combat should be fast and quick, almost one hit kills on all enemies, or else it can get boring. Still compared to other games in this genre, this is by far much more fun.

[Chicktopus]

I actually posted a thread about an auto-attack feature and some sort of dodge mechanic to spice up combat several months ago, but the consensus was inconclusive.

 

The bizarre thing is that this combat style didn't bother me very much in my many years as a WoW player. Asides from the obvious inertness problem, it's just lacking that certain je ne sais quoi.

[Ravenpsix]

It's all about animations. I myself like them, they are less boring then others. If you don't like it, just change the game. There are plenty there.

 

Yesterday actually found there was a DODGE animation, and it looked quate epic in PVP. The way my jedi evaded enemy's lightsaber...

[swtonewbie]

Don't post videos of that game. My body can't handle the boredom.

 

I played TSW for about a month or so shortly after came out, i tried out a primarily melee toon that used fist/choas weapons. I kid you not, this game actually had my fingers cramping up and i've played a WoW rogue for i several years. If you havent played it but have played WoW the spec i chose was kinda like a rogue. Except you were doing double the amount of finishing moves and you were building combo points up non stop.

 

But back to the topic...I do agree that the animations could use some work in SWTOR. But lets just say i dont have much confidence in the game engine they've chosen. That animation run bug with BH and gunslingers? that has been in the game since release, and it's still here! But the biggest problem right now is the failure to fire bug. This is not a bug that happens to me once a day or even once an hour. No exaggeration, but it's almost every pull now that i experience at least 1 or 2 sometimes 3 FTF bugs. There's more to this then just what i mentioned, and if you've been playing for a while you may have seen some of it too. They just have a lot of work to do to make the combat system better then what it is.

[Canmore]

I dont like the flash trails that striking with a light saber or other blade does and the sound effect of hitting with a none light saber blade sucks . in kotor 1 or 2 striking with a blade made a satisfying clink =p

as for auto attack it would make ranged weapons look cooler ..

im not a proponent of the two hit fans i like drawn out fights, its just the graphics style of combat does not appeal to me . im old fashioned i dont particulary like flashyness

[Chicktopus]

Yes, work on the animations is what I'm driving at. Making it *look* like you, and your opponent are ducking and weaving sabre blows, recoiling from ones that hit and fluidly turning these evasions in to the next ability. I appreciate it's a tricky thing to do, especially when PvP is thrown in to the mix, but just look how awkward and clunky sabre battles are -- particularly in Shadow/Assassin combat where the swings are mixed with lightning attacks.

 

One animation that *did* stand out to me was the random one from a finishing attack with a double-bladed sabre in which the character does a neat little spin. Very cinematic, it's just a shame about the poke battle which preceded it.

[TUXs]

Are you suggesting that NPCs that don't move, aggro as a flock of 2-3 and stand completely still while you pound on them, isn't fun?

[OddballEasyEight]

In my opinion the same problem exists in almost all MMO's...

What you get is a players character standing around with enemies around him that are constantly hitting him and he is hitting them over and over before they finally fall down.

The lack of "oomph" here is the fact that if you did this in a movie it would look ridicculous... people dont just stand around and hit eachother over and over until one of them falls over. And people usually cannot take 7-8 direct hits from a sword or other weapon without dying.

 

But on the other hand, you wouldnt want a game where enemies died realistically (like say, in Red Orchestra) because then the designers would have had to fill up the levels with even more enemies (not to mention that you couldnt have the player dying as easily either).

IMHO having more "oomph" would require a drastic change in the combat system and the game in general...

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I agree with the OP for the most part open world PvE is boring, especially if it's something like a daily that you do over an over again. It's for this reason that when i'm doing openwork PvE I normally have Netflix running on my second monitor. Multi-tasking FTW.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

In my opinion the same problem exists in almost all MMO's...

 

Only other MMO I've played is WoW, but based on that I do agree with this. I did the same thing in WoW. At least in this game you have the class stories to give you something interesting while doing your 1-50 leveling, but doing endgame dailies is super tedious.

[asbalana]

To me and wife, yes it is fun.

 

I like the animations and combat and do not find it all that static. Yes, if you hit two or three buttons in each fight that is the case. My SW has force leap, force choke, smash, force push, etc. which do bring reaction from the mobs. My SI has any number of attacks that bring mob reaction as well.

 

I think that the combat can be improved (there are too many overlapping abilities) and some work can be done on combat animations, but all in all I think that EA/BW did a good job in the pve combat aspect of the game.

[LordArtemis]

I would suggest they could make a few changes to spice things up a bit.

 

1) Less static mobs, more patrols, static mobs should be busy.

2) Mobs should sometimes run in fear if they are outmatched.

3) Autoattack should be added. Two additional animations for basic attack should be added.

4) More animations for reaction to damage should be added, like mobs shaking off a sleep in the last few seconds before it wears off.

5) When fighting bosses or strong enemies and knocked back jedi and sith should sometimes lose their saber. An animation would be added where they use the force to retrieve it and fight on.

 

Perhaps more to follow.....

[Lionflash]

... There's no "oomph" in the blows, no illusion you're causing the target any real bother until if falls over ...

 

Do you mind if I ask which class you are playing? I would agree with you that some classes (Jedi Sentinel) lack that 'oomph' you are talking about, with only one or two abilities that actually look and feel great with that oomph factor. But some characters (Gunslinger), I feel really do pack a punch. This is due to the sound I think. Some classes have great sound clips for attacks and some... don't such as 'Fire Pulse' and 'High Impact Bolt', High Impact Bolt can barely be heard in a WZ and is supposed to be my most powerful ability, often my finisher. Meanwhile the sniper has some... AMAZING sound effect. I'll never get over how amazing some of the sniper shots sound, it's like they pierce the sound barrier with some of thier shots.

 

There are some moments in the story where there are scipted combat events, (multiple waves, soldiers repelling in from the ceiling or comming threw doors, explosions etc...) Those fights are cooler and funner, but thats because they also pack them full of 'less than trash' trash mobs that die quickly and make you feel powerful Love them.