DkSharktooth Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Just another example of how pve in this game is an afterthought and how this game is based around leveling and RPing. With the legacy buffs giving better quality of life to new players and alts of veterans and with constant cartel packs being released to help people invest time in their role play, I can see how Bioware doesn't have the time to invest into end game content. Quite frankly, most people realize they should move onto another game by the time they get there and all of you should have too by now. Sincerely Somnoms Nope. Game is based around cartel market now. Money Talks. Edited June 13, 2013 by DkSharktooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneShotXV Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Edit: Wrong place sorry :/ had too many different threads open and posted in the wrong one lol But now that I'm here, has anyone tried the other three? i.e. skipped guards? How are they? Edited June 13, 2013 by OneShotXV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename_Zero Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 This thread is utterly fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korse Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Hey look another person who hasn't tried it thinks it's fine and the best guilds in the game need to l2p. Do I think it's fine that it may not be possible to defeat a Nightmare difficulty raid on the first day wearing only the previous tier of gear? Absolutely. It was disappointing to beat S&V HM wearing just 63s in the first lockout. I would prefer progression content that takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchusabre Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Why do I feel like bioware doesn't play this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastirkal Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Do I think it's fine that it may not be possible to defeat a Nightmare difficulty raid on the first day wearing only the previous tier of gear? Absolutely. It was disappointing to beat S&V HM wearing just 63s in the first lockout. I would prefer progression content that takes time. The content is meant to be balanced for full 72. So what exactly do you mean here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korse Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The content is meant to be balanced for full 72. So what exactly do you mean here? Where did they detail Nightmare balance? Is that an assumption because it drops 75 gear, therefore you're supposed to be wearing full 72? I find everyone annoying because they all seem to be the best guilds in the world and expect to clear all of the new content in hours. **** and stop acting entitled. It's better hard and overtuned than the first group in "wins." I would prefer that every single fight in the game scaled with the difficulty of 16M EC NM Tanks. That was a great fight that everyone whined into nerfdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Epic, just epic. Get better. You can't deal with the content in one day? Try harder the next day. All new content must be clearable on the first day so we can get it on farm and abuse swaps between 8m and 16m to maximise drops for mains by filling in multiple 8m raids with undergeared alts instead of wasting our time having to wipe over and over and over trying to get the loot. Bioware tricked us by making us think 8m nightmare live was going to be a row of loot piñatas as it was on PTS. Edited June 13, 2013 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombbuster Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Has anyone actually screwed their lockout and moved onto Op9 and beyond to see if that content is indeed even "doable"?? Or is it just a mute point ATM as a "BROKEN" instance??That would probably be a mistake, since the bug on the last boss (that was reported repeatedly during PTS ) where his health jumps back up to 32% when tantrum hits, has now been reported on live in both story and hard modes. I'd wager that it's present in nightmare as well, making that fight also impossible. Edited June 13, 2013 by Bombbuster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e_nk_ay Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 Has anyone actually screwed their lockout and moved onto Op9 and beyond to see if that content is indeed even "doable"?? Or is it just a mute point ATM as a "BROKEN" instance?? Yes, we did. After 4 hours on DG and several 30-40% wipes on Kelsara we called the raid this morning and came back tonight. Did HM DG, 4 shot NiM Operator and best attempt on Kephess was 4%, should kill it tomorrow. Op9 and Kephess are definitely tuned well, we enjoyed those fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofGob Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I wasn't saying that you're wrong in stating that it's overtuned, but claiming "mathematically impossible" on day one is just silly. I think you did the smart thing just skipping and moving on to the next, i'd like to see you guys revisit boss two with some more 75s and more collective experience. It's poor design to have a boss smack dab in the middle that forces you to drop down to bypass it for gear, but I don't think it's the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenderDeath Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I wasn't saying that you're wrong in stating that it's overtuned, but claiming "mathematically impossible" on day one is just silly. I think you did the smart thing just skipping and moving on to the next, i'd like to see you guys revisit boss two with some more 75s and more collective experience. It's poor design to have a boss smack dab in the middle that forces you to drop down to bypass it for gear, but I don't think it's the end of the world. Look, the KD gear is not going to make much of a difference. It will be the enrage timer, that is all. Have fun trying to kill it. I actually enjoy the guilds that are attempting it for 65 wipes straight. If someone manages to kill it, good for them! But, judging by the other fights, the enrage timer is a glaring mistake. We will all see the devs admit the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docmal Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Op9 is pretty well tuned... they added a mechanic where you cannot fail a color or you get blown apart by raid aoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakeshZeal Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) I would say... and this dont mean much coming from a mainly PvP'er but if it is not mathmaticly impossible. Leave it like it is. Its Nightmare mode, make these PvE'rs work for once. Being able to clear all new content in 1-2 nights really defeats the purpose of releasing "Difficult" content at all. You guys wanted a race, you got yourselfs a real race now! Just food for thought. Edited June 13, 2013 by RakeshZeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofGob Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Look, the KD gear is not going to make much of a difference. It will be the enrage timer, that is all. That's my point with the gear. Kel dragon gives around 20 main stat and 20 secondary stat per piece over verpine stuff. That can go a long way to cutting into that enrage. If it was the last boss of the instance I think it would be much more palatable. Making the second boss and having it b such a vast difference from the others around it is what I think makes it so jarring. It very well may be impossible this week or even over the next couple weeks, but is that inherently wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeduz Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Please can those that did not have a go at the said bosses stop commenting on things that they haven't experienced. Mathematically, it might just be possible, but practically its a no for the moment. I'm not saying that we should clear it on the first day BUT with the best attempt I've seen at 40%enrage (Our guild was at 50%) there is absolutely NOTHING I see that could be change to account for that 40% DPS different and that is where things need to be address by the Dev......either just say its working as intended and that we're missing something completely or just that they mess this up with the latter being more likely IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakeshZeal Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) A few weeks of a few 75 pieces should do the trick =) Maybe that was bioware saying stop giving the tanks and heals all the gear first!!! Edited June 13, 2013 by RakeshZeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastirkal Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) A few weeks of a few 75 pieces should do the trick =) Maybe that was bioware saying stop giving the tanks and heals all the gear first!!! This best be a joke. Assuming people do this the correct way it would take 8 weeks to get a single piece of KD gear for a raid team. I doubt bioware wants us to go back to HM for a single fight to come back and finish off the rest of nightmare. Lets also not forget that TfB is bugged upon entering Tantrum phase and would obviously make it impossible to kill. Edited June 13, 2013 by mastirkal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e_nk_ay Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 This best be a joke. Assuming people do this the correct way it would take 8 weeks to get a single piece of KD gear for a raid team. I doubt bioware wants us to go back to HM for a single fight to come back and finish off the rest of nightmare. Lets also not forget that TfB is bugged upon entering Tantrum phase and would obviously make it impossible to kill. I agree with what you're saying for the most part, but let's not forget WoW for several tiers had top-end guilds Normal Mode'ing a boss here or there to farm gear from other bosses. I agree 100% that having to do that is NOT ideal and is on the dev's for screwing up a certain encounter, but it has happened before. Let's hope BioWare isn't trying to do their best Blizzard impression, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countpopeula Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) The ability for raids to use HM/NiM lockout cheese shouldn't even come into discussion. It is an overlooked, poorly designed "feature" of this game that was only implemented back when NiM's dropped the same tier tokens as their HM counterparts to prevent hardcore raiders from farming gear. Hell they had to make it so that resetting difficulty after engaging the encounters wiped your timer and you lost your title run because players were NiM/HM cheesing their way to titles. Now that NiM's are a separate tier, it should probably be changed. I have not raided anything other than vanilla WoW and TOR, but I've never heard of players approving of a raid where you had to cheese clear a boss to get gear, in order to go back and clear the earlier fight at a later date. If Bioware is infact doing what you're saying and upping the difficulty for us as we requested, then why would they at the same time do something that everyone is so adamantly against? The fact Op9 and Kephess are tuned within the realm of possibility for less than perfect runs show that they screwed up DG horribly. Honestly, Occam's Razer this ****. Do you really think that guilds who consistently first week clear new content don't have a good feel for this game's mechanics and timers, and that we are wrong? That our gut instincts on this fight are off? That the fact players can bypass a boss and down the subsequent bosses with no additional gearing isn't broken as hell? That this bypass method is an intended feature the developers implemented? Or do you think that BW's team with an already spotty track record of bugs and oversights screwed up yet again? Whether you think content should be cleared in one night of release or not, Op9 and Kephess are both doable, even with less than flawless runs. Can't speak for TFB yet, but DG is not even close to doable at current gear. If you have to bypass Encounter 2 to see the subsequent fights, and can down those without additional gearing, Encounter 2 is for all arguments broken. Because DnT did just that and lawl'd their way through Op9, I'm not even willing to listen to the devil's advocates. They crushed Op9, and would have had Kephess if they weren't braindead by the point they had that fight figured out. 8man NiM TFB Encounter 2 is broken, stop arguing otherwise. Edited June 13, 2013 by countpopeula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying-Brian Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 A few weeks of a few 75 pieces should do the trick =) Maybe that was bioware saying stop giving the tanks and heals all the gear first!!! Absolutely, because those extra 14 pts of main stat and 6 pts of power from the bracers will make all the difference that is needed for the 4 DPS to beat the enrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhiIl Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 absolut nice operation we all want nightmare, here it is thx to bio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakeshZeal Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Absolutely, because those extra 14 pts of main stat and 6 pts of power from the bracers will make all the difference that is needed for the 4 DPS to beat the enrage. My point being people said omg omg its to easy! now its omg omg its to hard, it must be impossible, it must be broken! What will make people happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 There's nothing premature about declaring something is mathematically impossible because it's very easy to extrapolate what your DPS is going to be compared to what is needed. Now a lot of 'mathematically impossible' fights are beaten because people usually find cool tricks or outright exploits to get around the mathematically impossible part. In fact, mathemticaly impossible should really be 'mathematically impossible to beat legitmately'. If you allow for illegitmate tactics, including possibly undiscovered ones, things suddenly become very possible. But that's hardly a good way to design a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastirkal Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It makes me wonder if there is something no one is catching onto in this fight. Some exploit the devs deviously placed in there and no one has cared to notice. While this would be interesting, I don't have the high enough opinion of bioware to think they did something this tricky and simply ****ed up their number crunching. Either way, nothing to do about it right now. Most progression guilds will probably wait until sunday for a fix before skipping and just going for the loot. At least that would be the smart move, no real advantage of going tonight or tomorrow when it could be fixable. Especially when most server rankings are not letting people just skip a boss for it to count. I'm curious to see if the devs will decrease the life or raise the enrage on this one. If full 72's can't beat an enrage even with perfect execution, I'm not going to assume this is how they meant it to be. If they did, well my word bioware, we said challenging, but come on man. Also regardless of being day one or not, if you have all of the prior tier gear and spend four hours on the damn boss you *********** did your time to know this boss fight to a T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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