Operative Healing

[JediFlux]

So explain something to me. How is it that operatives now have the most mobility on top of everything they had before. Their Hots are very strong, they can heal from cover, they have dodge, and stealth. They can scamper all over the map being the most mobile player. They are the only healer that can heal from a crouched position that is called "cover" even though there is no cover around and they are a healer not a dps class. Cover for a sniper or gunslinger makes perfect sense. For a healer it is the dumbest ****. They can't be pulled or leapt to and they are the only healer that has anything close to that on top of stealth which they always had which people seem to forget as being a pretty damn good ability for a healer. They can stealth out...they can stealth over to a node without being slowed or stopped by the opposition etc.

 

Their regen is ridiculous and they barely have to cast a heal with all the instants they have. So if you are going to say that scamper kills your energy....yes I know....I am sorry that you cant scamper across the entire map and instantly be at full energy throwing out heals. Just because it costs energy....its not like energy management on an operative healer is exactly a problem right now....

 

Since 2.0 each class got an additional ability. From duel saber throw, reflect, sniper roll, sage bubble, commando root thing. All of it have been nice additions to every class. They have caused you to be even smarter when playing classes etc. Not one of those abilities has so completely broken pvp as scamper. It has completely changed the nature of pvp.

 

If you don't have an operative you are screwed. If you are in civil war and they have an operative or smuggler and you don't they cap their node long before you can and they just hold mid indefinitely. In voidstar once they get the first door they stealth out and scamper to the datacore. Where no one can catch them unless you are lucky enough to have a decent operative on your team.

 

I mean I literally don't know what you people are thinking. I mean do you people even play the game? Have you ever been up against a good operative. Where they are always in cover when healing. Where they roll from node to node in stealth without a prayer to stop them and can reinforce nodes in no time at all.

 

There is not one....not one speed buff that is spammable in the game before scamper. Now you give them an ability that is spammable on top of everything else they have. Like if stealth, out of combat mezzes, stuns, roots, and an 8 sec mezz wasn't enough? I have seen comments about how omg you can't nerf scamper....please its like everyone forgot they already had a pretty damn good ability which was stealth. You can adjust the energy cost to compensate, but have a spammable buggy thing like scamper is beyond ridiculous at this point. I am not talking about a crappy operative that sits there out of cover and heals. So if you are going to flame me you are an idiot.

 

No ability has so profoundly changed the way we play pvp. Take something away from them because its pretty ridiculous already especially considering that they warp across your screen. You need to delay a cartel shipment for a week and fix a lot of the crap in pvp where people warp all over the screen especially in huttball. Its embarrassing that they have been in the game this long already.

[MotorCityMan]

QQQQ Ops healing, and more QQQQQ, and more QQQQ, and yet more QQQQ

 

The shorter version is easier to read.

[Xivez]

So explain something to me. How is it that operatives now have the most mobility on top of everything they had before. Their Hots are very strong, they can heal from cover, they have dodge, and stealth. They can scamper all over the map being the most mobile player. They are the only healer that can heal from a crouched position that is called "cover" even though there is no cover around and they are a healer not a dps class. Cover for a sniper or gunslinger makes perfect sense. For a healer it is the dumbest ****. They can't be pulled or leapt to and they are the only healer that has anything close to that on top of stealth which they always had which people seem to forget as being a pretty damn good ability for a healer. They can stealth out...they can stealth over to a node without being slowed or stopped by the opposition etc.

 

Their regen is ridiculous and they barely have to cast a heal with all the instants they have. So if you are going to say that scamper kills your energy....yes I know....I am sorry that you cant scamper across the entire map and instantly be at full energy throwing out heals. Just because it costs energy....its not like energy management on an operative healer is exactly a problem right now....

 

Since 2.0 each class got an additional ability. From duel saber throw, reflect, sniper roll, sage bubble, commando root thing. All of it have been nice additions to every class. They have caused you to be even smarter when playing classes etc. Not one of those abilities has so completely broken pvp as scamper. It has completely changed the nature of pvp.

 

If you don't have an operative you are screwed. If you are in civil war and they have an operative or smuggler and you don't they cap their node long before you can and they just hold mid indefinitely. In voidstar once they get the first door they stealth out and scamper to the datacore. Where no one can catch them unless you are lucky enough to have a decent operative on your team.

 

I mean I literally don't know what you people are thinking. I mean do you people even play the game? Have you ever been up against a good operative. Where they are always in cover when healing. Where they roll from node to node in stealth without a prayer to stop them and can reinforce nodes in no time at all.

 

There is not one....not one speed buff that is spammable in the game before scamper. Now you give them an ability that is spammable on top of everything else they have. Like if stealth, out of combat mezzes, stuns, roots, and an 8 sec mezz wasn't enough? I have seen comments about how omg you can't nerf scamper....please its like everyone forgot they already had a pretty damn good ability which was stealth. You can adjust the energy cost to compensate, but have a spammable buggy thing like scamper is beyond ridiculous at this point. I am not talking about a crappy operative that sits there out of cover and heals. So if you are going to flame me you are an idiot.

 

No ability has so profoundly changed the way we play pvp. Take something away from them because its pretty ridiculous already especially considering that they warp across your screen. You need to delay a cartel shipment for a week and fix a lot of the crap in pvp where people warp all over the screen especially in huttball. Its embarrassing that they have been in the game this long already.

 

Just so you know: That Cover you keep talking about doesnt do jack**** for Operatives.

And Operatives can roll like 3-4 times before they are out of energy, if you slow/hinder them they roll half the length if you didnt. Seems like you just met a better player than yourself.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Xivez

[ArielaKnight]

I have no idea what you are talking about the cover. As an operative healer when I go to heal someone it takes me out of cover every time so the cover does an operative healer no good at all when they are healing.

[vimm]

I have no idea what you are talking about the cover. As an operative healer when I go to heal someone it takes me out of cover every time so the cover does an operative healer no good at all when they are healing.

 

Are you for real?

[Sziroten]

I have no idea what you are talking about the cover. As an operative healer when I go to heal someone it takes me out of cover every time so the cover does an operative healer no good at all when they are healing.

 

Can people force leap at you while being in the cover ability while healing other people?

[Sharee]

I have no idea what you are talking about the cover. As an operative healer when I go to heal someone it takes me out of cover every time so the cover does an operative healer no good at all when they are healing.

 

Let me get this straight: when you say "go to heal someone" you mean literally WALKING over to someone to heal him? Because that's the only way 'healing' would take you out of cover.

 

If you are in cover. and just CAST a heal(without moving), it does NOT take you out of cover. You can sit there all day casting heals over and over and noone will be able to jump to you, or pull you, thanks to you being constantly in cover. You appear to be standing while the heal-casting animation is going on, but that's just graphical fluff. You still count as being in cover until you move, are knocked back, stunned etc.(the usual things that remove you from cover)

[Seireeni]

So basically "I think operative healer is too strong so let's nerf all operatives"?

[Sziroten]

So basically "I think operative healer is too strong so let's nerf all operatives"?

 

It's really more of a .... let's bring operative healer (not other operative specs) down to the level of sorc/ merc healer.

[Seireeni]

It's really more of a .... let's bring operative healer (not other operative specs) down to the level of sorc/ merc healer.

 

By nerfing an ability that affects all operative specs?

[Ajuntalee]

If you are in cover. and just CAST a heal(without moving), it does NOT take you out of cover.

 

technically you are right if you speak about cover "state"

 

But he is right when he speaks about cover mitigation,as it only works if you stay ducked, as soon as you use a gcd or a channelling ability the character loses cover mitigation for the duration of channelling / animation, but he stays in "cover state", so he is rooted has access to a useless version of sniper shot, and can throw his "explosive", but loses access to some other skills like backstab, but already selective mitigation goes away, until he stops doing things.

 

also note that ops cover only work if there is actual "cover" to cover against, and only mitigate regular attacks IF they are not doing anything, it doesn't affect tech-force and dots.

 

Operative 's cover is a gimmick and accounts for something like 0.2% damage mitigation over the duration of a WZ, operatives use it as such on very rare occasions, cause it totally negates their mobility which is a WAY better mitigation technique.

 

People ranting about Operatives cover are really conceding their blatant ignorance of the class and should really play one for a week or two to get a better grasp of exactly how they work.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Ajuntalee

[Cretinus]

By nerfing an ability that affects all operative specs?

 

No. Rather by making heals so expensive in terms of resources that the operative runs dry after a while. This doesn't affect DPS speccs, they're not supposed to heal. I also don't care about cover, rolls etc.They can keep them all, as long as they don't have infinite resources.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Cretinus

[Helig]

I have no idea what you are talking about the cover. As an operative healer when I go to heal someone it takes me out of cover every time so the cover does an operative healer no good at all when they are healing.

Cover blocks pulls and charges - some of the most annoying mechanics in game for a healer. Even when you stand up during a heal, you're still considered "in cover", and thus cannot be jumped or pulled.

No. Rather by making heals so expensive in terms of resources that the operative runs dry after a while. This doesn't affect DPS speccs, they're not supposed to heal. I also don't care about cover, rolls etc.They can keep them all, as long as they don't have infinite resources.

The Operative does not have infinite resources. The only problem I see is surgical probe spam. Could use a short cooldown, but otherwise resource management can get pretty tight if you're maximizing your HPS output.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Helig

[Sharee]

technically you are right if you speak about cover "state"

 

But he is right when he speaks about cover mitigation,

 

He/she said, and i quote, "cover does an operative healer no good at all." That does not sound like he speaks about mitigation, but rather the ability as whole, including all it's perks(including pull immunity etc.). But, avoidance(not mitigation, operative cover has none) is not available during a cast, that much is true.

[Ajuntalee]

He/she said, and i quote, "cover does an operative healer no good at all." That does not sound like he speaks about mitigation,

 

Again if you knew the class you 'd know it necessarily has to, since there is no other benefit to cover for an operative outside of accessing "explosive probe" and "sniper shot". forgive him, me, and others for assuming people knew that much about operatives cover's.

 

Only Snipers and GS are made immuned to interrupts, KBs and pulls with cover from level 10 and only they get a baseline 20% avoidance based mitigation buff.

 

But rather the ability as whole, including all it's perks(including pull immunity etc.).

 

For the aforementioned reason think you assumed wrong. how can you come here claim so much about Operatives and what should be done to tweak them when you know so little about how they currently are.

 

But, avoidance(not mitigation, operative cover has none) is not available during a cast, that much is true.

 

Avoidance is a form of damage mitigation , there is nothing wrong calling avoidance mitigation or calling a square a rectangle, it didn't serve you well to be nitpicking on the other threads why would you want to start here. it doesn't help your cause, and can only eventually result in a flame-war which helps no-one and decridibilize us all in front of readers, among which game designers.

 

The fact you told and keep telling nonsense about operatives is valid,

The validity of the aforementioned hints how little you qualify at grasping the problem, or even at grasping if there actually is a problem to boot.

[Sharee]

Again if you knew the class you 'd know it necessarily has to, since there is no other benefit to cover for an operative outside of accessing "explosive probe" and "sniper shot".

 

This must be some sort of misunderstanding. Surely you are not suggesting pull/jump immunity does not affect operatives? Because that's what i got from the yellow quote above.

 

Only Snipers and GS are made immuned to interrupts, KBs and pulls with cover from level 10 and only they get a baseline 20% avoidance based mitigation buff.

 

Eh? Snipers and GS are not immune to KB with cover(unless you count entrench, but that comes much later than level 10). And pull protection applies to operatives as well as snipers. I'm not sure we are on the same page here.

 

For the aforementioned reason think you assumed wrong.

 

 

Avoidance is a form of damage mitigation , there is nothing wrong calling avoidance mitigation

 

It is a generally accepted MMO terminology to call abilities that reduce incoming damage "mitigation abilities" and abilities that allow avoiding damage completely 'avoidance abilities'. But, it's not written in stone, i'll give you that.

 

The fact you told and keep telling nonsense about operatives is valid,

The validity of the aforementioned hints how little you qualify at grasping the problem, or even at grasping if there actually is a problem to boot.

 

Are you sure you aren't quoting the wrong person here? I don't have an agenda against operatives, and i only posted in this thread to correct an inaccuracy(that casting heal removes one from cover).

[Sziroten]

By nerfing an ability that affects all operative specs?

 

That's how bad class developer would "fix" and did fix classes... yes but I'm not asking for this. I'm not sure why it has to be brought to attention what makes operatives superior than sorc/ mercs but let me try.

 

Operative

 

• stealth
  
• vanish
  
• exfilitrate
  
• >30% 0 cost unlimited heal
  
• optional cover "state" = immune to pull/ leap
  
• very strong single player heal fokus
  
• flashbang
  
• shield probe
  
• evasion
  

 

Sorc

 

• bubble (skilled = stuns player when your own bubble runs out)
  
• lvl 51 bubble (sitting immune duck)
  
• force speed
  
• overload (skilled = roots player)
  

 

Mercenary

 

• jet boost
  
• supercharged gas
  
• energy shield (skilled = immune to interrupts)
  
• hydraulic overrides
  
• stealth scan
  

Edited May 29, 2013 by Sziroten

[Seireeni]

You seem to forget a few abilities from merc (power surge, thermal sensor override, kolto overload), but sure, I see the point. However, the op seems to be whining about the roll most of his post, and changing the roll would affect dps operatives, too.

[Ajuntalee]

Eh? Snipers and GS are not immune to KB with cover(unless you count entrench, but that comes much later than level 10). And pull protection applies to operatives as well as snipers. I'm not sure we are on the same page here.

 

We certainly don't, your problem is I am at the right page and you still don't , neither were you on the previous post, neither on that one even before.

 

I have a bloody operative, I have been tossed around enough while in cover by mobs players and whatnot to know I am not immuned to KB and pulls whatsoever.

 

Entrench protects SNIPERS against Roots / KD (knockdowns) / Stuns / Mezz

 

Cover protects SNIPERS against Interruptions / Pulls / KB / Leaps (Knockbacks)

 

Cover protects operatives against NOTHING

 

Go get your facts straight, stop wasting my time. you know jack**** about operatives, you put it on display every single time you post.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Ajuntalee

[Rogean]

I don't know what's more funny.. the original post filled with QQ, or all the people saying "Wait a minute, Operatives can go into Cover and not be leaped to??!!?".

 

In my opinion the ability to prevent a gap closer (Cover stopping Leap) makes up for the fact that operatives have no gap increasers (Knockbacks, Force Speed, Hold the Line, etc). Of course this was before Scamper was introduced.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Rogean

[Cretinus]

In my opinion the ability to prevent a gap closer (Cover stopping Leap) makes up for the fact that operatives have no gap increasers (Knockbacks, Force Speed, Hold the Line, etc).

 

Huh?! Exfiltrate is not a gap increaser?!

[Jaiyne]

I have no idea what you are talking about the cover. As an operative healer when I go to heal someone it takes me out of cover every time so the cover does an operative healer no good at all when they are healing.

 

What is this I don't even....????

[Seireeni]

What is this I don't even....????

 

When you look at the animation, it seems that the operative stands up to heal, but if you look at the buffs, you still are in cover. The animation has just gotten someone confused.

[Capt_Beers]

It's really more of a .... let's bring operative healer (not other operative specs) down to the level of sorc/ merc healer.

 

You're going have to pick either Sorc or Merc as those 2 are nowhere near on par with each other.

 

No. Rather by making heals so expensive in terms of resources that the operative runs dry after a while. This doesn't affect DPS speccs, they're not supposed to heal. I also don't care about cover, rolls etc.They can keep them all, as long as they don't have infinite resources.

 

Any good healer has infinite resources as good ones manage it better. I rarely run low on ammo on my Mando (I actually run out of energy far more often on my Scoundrel but he is only lvl 28). Energy management is pretty simple for Ops/Scoundrels. The 2 energy per crit recovered on Diag Scan is great but it's not infinite for sure, it requires a little less planning than others maybe but it still has to be watched.

 

They're really good healers without a doubt. However the key to having an unkillable Op healer lays between the chair and the keyboard. If you have a talented player they are horrible to deal with (same for any class), however if you have someone pounding buttons who doesn't know what they are doing it's going to be much easier to take them down.

[Ajuntalee]

I don't know what's more funny.. the original post filled with QQ, or all the people saying "Wait a minute, Operatives can go into Cover and not be leaped to??!!?".

 

In my opinion the ability to prevent a gap closer (Cover stopping Leap) makes up for the fact that operatives have no gap increasers (Knockbacks, Force Speed, Hold the Line, etc).

 

And they rightfully look surprised because Ops can be lept to cover or not, bloody hell,

 

i have been pulled and lept to, and interrputed, while in cover

 

and

 

i have interuppted, lept to and pulled enough covered operatives

 

to know that.

 

operatives don't go into cover unless their "explosive probe" is available, then they leave it right away to go on running around.