Operative Healing

[Jaiyne]

When you look at the animation, it seems that the operative stands up to heal, but if you look at the buffs, you still are in cover. The animation has just gotten someone confused.

 

I see that they are confused...very, very confused.

[Capt_Beers]

That's how bad class developer would "fix" and did fix classes... yes but I'm not asking for this. I'm not sure why it has to be brought to attention what makes operatives superior than sorc/ mercs but let me try.

 

Operative

 

• stealth
  
• vanish
  
• exfilitrate
  
• >30% 0 cost unlimited heal
  
• optional cover "state" = immune to pull/ leap
  
• very strong single player heal fokus
  
• flashbang
  
• shield probe
  
• evasion
  

 

Sorc

 

• bubble (skilled = stuns player when your own bubble runs out)
  
• lvl 51 bubble (sitting immune duck)
  
• force speed
  
• overload (skilled = roots player)
  
  
• 10 sec. Interrupt Immuntiy
  
• Instant AoE heal
  
• Root break on Force Speed + Immunity while sprinting
  
• Rescue pull (beast mode for HB)
  
• Very strong AoE "fokus"
  
  

 

Mercenary

 

• jet boost
  
• supercharged gas
  
• energy shield (skilled = immune to interrupts)
  
• hydraulic overrides
  
• stealth scan
  
  
• Heavy Armor
  
• High Single target burst healing
  
• Spammable slow that heals team + big unlimited Aoe small HoT
  
• I have no clue how you left Electro Net off of here
  
• You wanna see unkillable healer attack a guarded Mando with his Reactive Shield + WZ adrenal up
  
  

 

You seemed to forget some of the things that made the other healers strong. don't worry I fixed it for you. It came off as a little biased at first.

[Sharee]

And they rightfully look surprised because Ops can be lept to cover or not, bloody hell,

 

i have been pulled and lept to, and interrputed, while in cover

 

and

 

i have interuppted, lept to and pulled enough covered operatives

 

to know that.

 

operatives don't go into cover unless their "explosive probe" is available, then they leave it right away to go on running around.

 

This is an old thread that complains about the fact you cannot jump to enemies in cover. The discussion mentions both snipers and operatives(and their counterparts). The following link leads directly to developer response: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1503885#post1503885

 

Let me be completely clear here:

 

The behavior you describe is a legitimate ability for the cover classes, it absolutely works as designed. While in cover state (which does NOT require physical cover to be present), they cannot be charged or leaped at. Gunslingers/Snipers also gain a 20% defense bonus while in cover.

 

The additional bonus of having physical cover (e.g. kneeling behind an object breaking line of sight to the attacker) is that normal ranged attacks will not hit you unless you expose yourself to the attacker (e.g. by shooting them).

 

TL;DR: Works as Designed.

 

I took the liberty of marking the important part red. Cannot be charged or leaped at is for all cover classes. Gunslingers/snipers do gain additional benefits on top of that.

[Technohic]

LOL I can't believe I waited so long to look at this thread. Figured it was just a nerf operative thread, but didn't realize there was a complete misunderstanding by an operative of an ability they have.

 

"Lear to play. I can't heal from cover as an operative!"

 

LOLIrony

[Chemic_al]

 

Cover protects operatives against NOTHING

 

 

Can't be leapt too, that in itself would prevent a knight/warrior leap interrupt. So stop your nonsense.

 

And yes operative heals are stupidly OP now, and the roll is the most absurd ability that should be on cooldown.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Chemic_al

[Sharee]

[nevermind] Edited May 29, 2013 by Sharee

[gtangtan]

I'm so completely confident in my comprehensive knowledge of my operative class in that I completely do not understand what I can do on my operative. It's just another QQ thread but the best part of the thread is definitely this person right here

 

getting in cover makes you immune to force leap and pulls. It does not protect you against stuns, KB, or zealous leap. As soon as you are stunned or knocked back, people will be able to force leap or pull you. you will also exit cover as soon as you move.

 

Operative 101, mate.

 

We certainly don't, your problem is I am at the right page and you still don't , neither were you on the previous post, neither on that one even before.

 

I have a bloody operative, I have been tossed around enough while in cover by mobs players and whatnot to know I am not immuned to KB and pulls whatsoever.

 

Entrench protects SNIPERS against Roots / KD (knockdowns) / Stuns / Mezz

 

Cover protects SNIPERS against Interruptions / Pulls / KB / Leaps (Knockbacks)

 

Cover protects operatives against NOTHING

 

Go get your facts straight, stop wasting my time. you know jack**** about operatives, you put it on display every single time you post.

[Rogean]

Huh?! Exfiltrate is not a gap increaser?!

 

Exfiltrate is the "Oh ****" button, compared to Force Barrier. I'm talking about what tools people have to escape from the frequent harrassments, not what they can do to avoid a focus fire.

[Rogean]

And they rightfully look surprised because Ops can be lept to cover or not, bloody hell,

 

i have been pulled and lept to, and interrputed, while in cover

 

You're doing it wrong.jpg

 

P.S. Obliterate is the only "Leap" that works against targets in Cover. It is a 10m range and doesn't interrupt casting. Force Leap does not work on targets in cover, and that includes Operative cover.

[Rogean]

We certainly don't, your problem is I am at the right page and you still don't , neither were you on the previous post, neither on that one even before.

 

I have a bloody operative, I have been tossed around enough while in cover by mobs players and whatnot to know I am not immuned to KB and pulls whatsoever.

 

Entrench protects SNIPERS against Roots / KD (knockdowns) / Stuns / Mezz

 

Cover protects SNIPERS against Interruptions / Pulls / KB / Leaps (Knockbacks)

 

Cover protects operatives against NOTHING

 

Go get your facts straight, stop wasting my time. you know jack**** about operatives, you put it on display every single time you post.

 

You should probably learn more about the game before you try to impress people with your fancy underlines on your misinformative posts.

 

Operative Cover protects against Force Leap.

[MasterFeign]

My issue with healing operatives has to do with evasion. Not only does it act as a self cleanse (post 2.0) but it can be activated again when the healer is being attacked (every second or something to that effect).

 

Also, for class balance in general, I find that any class that can still have large amounts of energy/force even after full rotations should be examined more closely.

[Cretinus]

Exfiltrate is the "Oh ****" button, compared to Force Barrier. I'm talking about what tools people have to escape from the frequent harrassments, not what they can do to avoid a focus fire.

 

To escape frequent harassments they have cover; exfiltrate is their gap increaser; and the "oh ****" button is probably stealth to get out of combat and fully reg.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Cretinus

[Burtlebe]

I have op and scoundrel, Ops is 51 and Scoundrel is 55. Yes cover does work well in both pve and pvp. I use cover to heal against garg in EV to prevent knock off of the islands.

 

They seriously need to put a cool down on the scamper, there is no reason we need this without some sort of cool down. Currently its just too dang OverPowered. I tried a few things early on with a friend's op and basically coordinated OPs can cap both side nodes in Civil War before anyone gets there. In voidstar its a joke how quickly we can get to a door, and if your team just slows folks and not kill them then you can roll all the way untouched.

 

After trying those things I stopped using it much cause it makes me sick, its not pvp in the least bit.

[LaVall]

Operative 's cover is a gimmick and accounts for something like 0.2% damage mitigation over the duration of a WZ, operatives use it as such on very rare occasions, cause it totally negates their mobility which is a WAY better mitigation technique.

 

If I have to cast a heal (and yes, if we want to keep people alive under focus fire we do have to cast) I ALWAYS do it from cover. If I'm on a ramp or at the ledge healing or relaying the ball in huttball, it's from cover. When I'm planting or capping a node, you can bet it's from cover. Cover is extremely useful, and I use it often every warzone.

[Aelaias]

Just so you know: That Cover you keep talking about doesnt do jack**** for Operatives.

And Operatives can roll like 3-4 times before they are out of energy, if you slow/hinder them they roll half the length if you didnt. Seems like you just met a better player than yourself.

 

That cover prevents them from being leaped to. If you are stationary without cover you are doing it wrong. Not only are you more obvious, I can get to you that much easier on my guardian while benefitting from my set bonus of more damage on leap. L2P.

 

Operative healers are so overpowered they are broken. Scamper is only one aspect of it, mobile instant cost-free healing is the other. A fine product of Bioware's class balance "team". I would love to see their forum contortionism if they should try to fix this. The stupidity and complete lack of foresight involved in creating this situation is breathtaking.

 

Incidentally, with the double proc relics soon to go the way of the dodo the burst in this game is going to tank a bit which will affect dps' ability to take down healers more than the concomitant decrease in healing.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Aelaias

[Alundo]

Tbh I don't have bubblestun or push/root combo to save me from being constantly under someone else, so cover is fair. Dont whine because you can't lol-leap at yet another class.

 

Exfiltrate is mostly for out of combat, its only good for escaping if the opponent is stupid enough not to be slowing me.

 

Like any other healer, target with more than one player, time inturrupts and focus. If you inturrupt the main heal, I'm left with instants/hot's that simply wont heal through burst.

 

Only thing I would change about Operative/Scoundrel healing right now is the cost of kolto probe, I mean, its 9 energy with a global cooldown, I've made that energy back by the time I can put another one on someone/someone else, this means I can HoT up 4/5/6 people to 2 stacks and bearly have lost any energy.

 

Instant heal is weak, if I'm having to spam that, I'm under 30% HP and praying for it to crit multiple times. Heals 1700 - 2200 normally, thats not alot considering the damage people can do.

[Yestreen]

So explain something to me. How is it that operatives now have the most mobility on top of everything they had before. Their Hots are very strong, they can heal from cover, they have dodge, and stealth. They can scamper all over the map being the most mobile player. They are the only healer that can heal from a crouched position that is called "cover" even though there is no cover around and they are a healer not a dps class. Cover for a sniper or gunslinger makes perfect sense. For a healer it is the dumbest ****. They can't be pulled or leapt to and they are the only healer that has anything close to that on top of stealth which they always had which people seem to forget as being a pretty damn good ability for a healer. They can stealth out...they can stealth over to a node without being slowed or stopped by the opposition etc.

 

Their regen is ridiculous and they barely have to cast a heal with all the instants they have. So if you are going to say that scamper kills your energy....yes I know....I am sorry that you cant scamper across the entire map and instantly be at full energy throwing out heals. Just because it costs energy....its not like energy management on an operative healer is exactly a problem right now....

 

Since 2.0 each class got an additional ability. From duel saber throw, reflect, sniper roll, sage bubble, commando root thing. All of it have been nice additions to every class. They have caused you to be even smarter when playing classes etc. Not one of those abilities has so completely broken pvp as scamper. It has completely changed the nature of pvp.

 

If you don't have an operative you are screwed. If you are in civil war and they have an operative or smuggler and you don't they cap their node long before you can and they just hold mid indefinitely. In voidstar once they get the first door they stealth out and scamper to the datacore. Where no one can catch them unless you are lucky enough to have a decent operative on your team.

 

I mean I literally don't know what you people are thinking. I mean do you people even play the game? Have you ever been up against a good operative. Where they are always in cover when healing. Where they roll from node to node in stealth without a prayer to stop them and can reinforce nodes in no time at all.

 

There is not one....not one speed buff that is spammable in the game before scamper. Now you give them an ability that is spammable on top of everything else they have. Like if stealth, out of combat mezzes, stuns, roots, and an 8 sec mezz wasn't enough? I have seen comments about how omg you can't nerf scamper....please its like everyone forgot they already had a pretty damn good ability which was stealth. You can adjust the energy cost to compensate, but have a spammable buggy thing like scamper is beyond ridiculous at this point. I am not talking about a crappy operative that sits there out of cover and heals. So if you are going to flame me you are an idiot.

 

No ability has so profoundly changed the way we play pvp. Take something away from them because its pretty ridiculous already especially considering that they warp across your screen. You need to delay a cartel shipment for a week and fix a lot of the crap in pvp where people warp all over the screen especially in huttball. Its embarrassing that they have been in the game this long already.

 

Hey,

 

I have this amazing solution to all of your problems.

 

If you do this, operatives wil only roll half the distance, which makes their roll totally useless

 

If you do this, then no intelligent operative will ever roll.

 

Are you ready to understand the secret of how to beat operative roll?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Slow them.

[JediFlux]

Yes because they can't cleanse the slow and be out of your range and then keep rolling. So easy right? Slow them they stealth out if its force....slow drops in like 5 secs and oh there they go again. Or maybe you mean all the classes that have a ranged slow right? If you haven't noticed not a ton of classes have long ranged slows so you just have to watch them rolling away.

 

Spammable scamper is the dumbest thing. How do you introduce an ability that completely changes the way all the maps are played? What ability that any of the other classes got so completely changed pvp? I would love for you to point one out to me.

 

Also, to those that say that cover to an operative doesn't matter. When you sit there and cover and heal your butt off and all the melee have to walk up to you unlike every other healer and then when we get to you. You stun us and roll away and sit in cover again and we have to slowly walk to you again. Yes that seems extremely fair. Oh and leaps and pulls are an important interrupt mechanic to a ton of classes. If you were somehow infinitely weaker I could understand being able to avoid interrupts. However, operatives are no where near weaker healers atm, but the strongest. They cast so infrequently now and when they do if they are a good operative you can't do anything to them unless you are within 4m which you probably won't be for very long with all of their stuns and the roll.

Edited May 29, 2013 by JediFlux

[Astarica]

That cover prevents them from being leaped to. If you are stationary without cover you are doing it wrong. Not only are you more obvious, I can get to you that much easier on my guardian while benefitting from my set bonus of more damage on leap. L2P.

 

Operative healers are so overpowered they are broken. Scamper is only one aspect of it, mobile instant cost-free healing is the other. A fine product of Bioware's class balance "team". I would love to see their forum contortionism if they should try to fix this. The stupidity and complete lack of foresight involved in creating this situation is breathtaking.

 

Incidentally, with the double proc relics soon to go the way of the dodo the burst in this game is going to tank a bit which will affect dps' ability to take down healers more than the concomitant decrease in healing.

 

I think Operative healing is clearly designed only for PvE. If you try to heal PvE like the way you do in PvP as an Operative you'd just have a dead group really fast. Unfortunately for players we do not have super speed or the ability to do 100% of our DPS from range at any time we wish like mobs can (it's common for a melee mob to just whip out a gun and start shooting people for identical damage as its melee damage).

[MidichIorian]

The energy cost for rolls needs to be increased to the point that they can do a maximum of two rolls within a certain time frame.

 

Their healing needs to be nerfed to the ground. No other class can consistently go +2K hps in warzones by simply spamming hard hitting stuff all over the place. Just compare it to the dot specs in the game. You can, as a madness spec, spam all day and still not come remotely close to their hots. It's as if someone over at BW came to the conclusion that all warzone teams consist of the 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 dps and that the 2 healers somehow are supposed to make up for the damage the 4 dps can deal. It's just that they forgot to tweak the other two healer classes so only operatives/scoundrel got this boost. Sure, you can reach extreme numbers on sorc/sage too but it pretty much requires a perfect warzone whereas operative/scoundrel can go crazy in much less optimal conditions. Merc/commando is atleast 500hps behind the other two in any scenario.

Edited May 29, 2013 by MidichIorian

[Aelaias]

I think Operative healing is clearly designed only for PvE. If you try to heal PvE like the way you do in PvP as an Operative you'd just have a dead group really fast. Unfortunately for players we do not have super speed or the ability to do 100% of our DPS from range at any time we wish like mobs can (it's common for a melee mob to just whip out a gun and start shooting people for identical damage as its melee damage).

 

Well, then it should be easy to fix by nerfing low power hots and instant heals while maybe buffing their cast heals, right? And of course scamper.

[Astarica]

Well, then it should be easy to fix by nerfing low power hots and instant heals while maybe buffing their cast heals, right? And of course scamper.

 

Well if you do that there's a lot of mess to balance in PvE to make sure they're still viable. My suggestion is to make all heals with a baseline casting time of instant cost more resources when used inside a WZ. You can do this without impacting PvE and I think the casted version of heals are relatively balanced in WZ. It's just silly to talk about 'learn to interrupt' when you fight an Op and the only heal you see that you can interrupt is Diagnoistic Scan. You can still do the same old spamming instants but just don't expect that to last very long.

[FROIDBUSTER]

Hey,

 

I have this amazing solution to all of your problems.

 

If you do this, operatives wil only roll half the distance, which makes their roll totally useless

 

If you do this, then no intelligent operative will ever roll.

 

Are you ready to understand the secret of how to beat operative roll?

 

 

Slow them.

 

A good operative still has their Cloaking Screen, Evasion, CC break along with their cleanse for certain debuffs (as well as Flashbang and their stun to disrupt people who might CC them). Now obviously those aren't all full proof especially if multitudes of enemies are around.

 

But in your average Voidstar/Hypergate/etc situation an Operative is going to easily be able to outrun any one single class. Even my Sniper has trouble halting Operatives alone because even with my own roll, cover pulse, leg shot, and flashbang. Its' still very easy for an Operative to outdistance someone simply by rolling and burning a CD or two if they get slowed.

 

And the problem is greatly compounded if team you're facing has more than one Operative/Scoundrel, or if anyone else on their team is being even slightly disruptive, since it either takes an Operative to be out of all their own CC/CDs or you to focus them global for global to keep pace with their own. (A long with any situation where they aren't actively in combat (i.e. running to disrupt node caps or to switch objectives).

 

Also some classes have no hope to ever stop an operative since after they use their ranged/gap-closer the Operative/Scoundrel is going to easily outrange them.

Edited May 30, 2013 by FROIDBUSTER

[JediFlux]

Amen. Coming from a ranged too.

[Sziroten]

Originally Posted by Sziroten

That's how bad class developer would "fix" and did fix classes... yes but I'm not asking for this. I'm not sure why it has to be brought to attention what makes operatives superior than sorc/ mercs but let me try.

 

Operative

stealth

vanish

exfilitrate

>30% 0 cost unlimited heal

optional cover "state" = immune to pull/ leap

very strong single player heal fokus

flashbang

shield probe

evasion

 

Sorc

bubble (skilled = stuns player when your own bubble runs out)

lvl 51 bubble (sitting immune duck)

force speed

overload (skilled = roots player)

10 sec. Interrupt Immuntiy

Instant AoE heal

Root break on Force Speed + Immunity while sprinting

Rescue pull (beast mode for HB)

Very strong AoE "fokus"

 

Mercenary

jet boost

supercharged gas

energy shield (skilled = immune to interrupts)

hydraulic overrides

stealth scan

Heavy Armor

High Single target burst healing

Spammable slow that heals team + big unlimited Aoe small HoT

I have no clue how you left Electro Net off of here

You wanna see unkillable healer attack a guarded Mando with his Reactive Shield + WZ adrenal up

You seemed to forget some of the things that made the other healers strong. don't worry I fixed it for you. It came off as a little biased at first.

 

Thanks I did mention that I would try

 

My list was more concerning their mobility and survivability. With a sorc, you run a way or cast your Force Barriere but anyone with a gap closer will be at you in no time. Giving Operatives the ability to stealth away does make them surviving much longer than any other healer not to mention that they can defend objectives as well much better than any other healing class as well (which is not unimportant for voidstar etc. )

 

Force speed has a cooldown, so should have the roll, they are both escape tools (which aren't available for mercs however except the 30% speedbuff).