ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Ratajack]

I'm going to jump in here, WHAT!!!

 

Laziness is an aversion to work or effort, makes no difference what that aversion is.... Is not the same as playing a game and not wanting to repeat the same content...

 

So I said to my GF the other night, hey girl, ya wanna watch The Matrix for the 105th time cuz I love it that much? She tells me nah! it's boring for me I know the story... SO I turn to her and say... Jeez ur a lazy b***h aren't you?

 

Sounds stupid doesn't it!!!

 

Your logic does not apply to entertainment. Entertainment is for enjoyment purposes, if said person doesn't find said entertainment enjoyable and thus refuses to do it, it doesn't make said person lazy.

 

If you watch that movie, does your brother get the "benefit" of watching it? Not unless he watches it also.

 

Same with datacrons. Finding them on your main does NOT entitle your alt to those stat bonuses.

[Zor-kai]

So, the Species Change and Barber Shop mentioned in the Dulfy interview from months ago are finally realities. That's a good sign! It means the devs are actually serious about their "Yeah, we'd like to do that" statements.

 

In that same interview, it was mentioned that Advanced Class changes were also on the table and likely to happen. I'm curious if the community team can update us on whether there's any time-table for when this will be implemented.

 

Ideally, I'd love it to be a switch you can unlock, then flip any time — finally allowing me to Tank & Heal with one character.

 

But in reality I'm sure it will cost like 6000 Cartel Coins to unlock it, then another 2000 Cartel Coins every time you switch (discounted 3.2% for subscribers, of course) with a 2 month cooldown. Oh well, what can you do? As a start, I'd be happy just to have the option in-game, in any form.

 

So! Does BioWare have any upcoming plans for this that can be shared with us?

 

~~~

 

Edit: While I am proud of how much you are feeding the Dark Side with your blind anger and hate, and vehement vows of impossibility, let me remind you of (source):

 

 

We got the Species part. That makes the AC part also have a lot of credibility.

 

So anyway, any ETA or news, community team?

 

I don't see the problem when Bioware giving players the choice to only change the AC. Also just a side comment the amount of people trolling and flaming this thread made me want to facepalm... Seriously if you don't agree with an idea why waste the time to type out a nasty reply, boredom? If you don't agree with an idea ok cool simply state you don't agree with the idea state your reason as to why and leave it at that. How hard is that?

[Ratajack]

You've got one fired dev's word that vaguely supports your purely semantics argument. But even his rationale was suspect - it makes the game sound a bit more developed to say it has 8 classes instead of 4 (or even 16 instead of 8 but I've not heard a dev say with a straight face that this game has 16 distinct classes). But your point is moot because Wow doesn't have advanced classes. If Advanced Classes are the same as "Classes" why didn't BW just call them "Classes" and not bother giving them the same stats and mostly the same gear and lots of shared abilities?

 

I can't think of any other MMORPG off-hand where completely different "classes" share many of the same abilities along with very similar if not identical gear/race/stats (including Wow). Note the combination because I know you're going to pick and choose - lots of games have different classes that share the same stats OR gear OR race options but none have all both of those AND many shared abilities (not just similar names that do similar things: identical effects and names) that I can think of.

 

Wow is a bad example for you, not sure why you're running with it. Advanced Classes are really just like skill trees in Wow - the difference here is that ppl have five skill trees instead of the three that they have in Wow (and some of those skill trees become locked out).

 

 

 

The devs have already explained why there are 8 story lines and not 16. It was CHEAPER to make 8 storylines, and divide each of those story lines into 2 classes or AC's.

 

If the statements made by the devs regarding AC's being different classes only reflect "one fired dev's word", then why has here been NOTHING to refute or contradict those statements from the devs? I think that might be because they are DIFFERENT CLASSES.

 

We do not have 8 classes with 5 skill trees each. We have 16 classes, each with 3 skill trees. Each pair of classes from a common story line have a skill tree with the same name, but those trees are NOT identical and the tree cannot be called "shared", IMO. While many of the skills have the same name, they differ in fundamental ways, such as range.

 

Do you ever get "locked out" of a class's skill trees in WoW? I think not. Every class has access to all the skill trees in that class. The same is true for this game. A commando has access to ALL of the commando skill trees. A powertech has access to ALL of the powertech trees.

 

Can a powertech heal? Can a mercenary taunt? Can a juggernaut dual wield? Can a marauder taunt? Can a sniper stealth? Can a gunslinger heal? Can a sorcerer stealth? Can an assassin heal?

 

Can an operative use a sniper rifle? Can a marauder wear HEAVY armor? Can a vvanguard use an assault cannon? Can a powertech dual wield? Can a scoundrel dual wield? Can a sorcerer use a dual bladed light saber?

 

I know you want to ignore those glaring differences between the classes, but fair is fair. If you are going to tell me that I cannot pick and choose, then you cannot either.

[ZeroPlus]

...

Can a powertech heal? Can a mercenary taunt? Can a juggernaut dual wield? Can a marauder taunt? Can a sniper stealth? Can a gunslinger heal? Can a sorcerer stealth? Can an assassin heal?

 

Can an operative use a sniper rifle? Can a marauder wear HEAVY armor? Can a vvanguard use an assault cannon? Can a powertech dual wield? Can a scoundrel dual wield? Can a sorcerer use a dual bladed light saber?

 

I know you want to ignore those glaring differences between the classes, but fair is fair. If you are going to tell me that I cannot pick and choose, then you cannot either.

 

Yes. There are glaring differences but those differences are much less than the glaring similarities!

 

A Powertech cannot heal and Mercenary cannot taunt BUT they both:

- use pistols;

- use heavy armor;

- share 21 base Bounty Hunter abilities;

- have the same 5 companions;

- have the same ship and ship droid;

- have the exact same story.

 

A Juggernaut cannot dualwield and a Marauder cannot taunt BUT they both:

- use lightsabers;

- share 18 base Sith Warrior abilities;

- have the same 5 companions;

- have the same ship and ship droid;

- have the exact same story.

 

I could carry on, but you get the idea. (Or at least, I hope you do. Sometimes reading what you write I get the idea that you blank out what doesn't interest you...)

 

You argue that being able to switch an Advanced Class would be a way out for lazy people because it would allow them to switch from being able to do one thing (for exemple: tanking) to be able to do another thing (for exemple: healing) without having to level a new toon to be able to do so. I'm not sure that I understand your logic though.

 

Someone who switched from one Advanced Class to another would still have to do additional work. A PowerTech tank that switched to a Mercenary so he could heal would have to work to acquire the necessary gear and work on his rotation so that he could be an efffective healer. The same would be true for a Mercenary Healer who switched over to a PowerTech so that he could Tank. How is that lazy?

 

How is this any different than what currently happens when a PowerTech Tank decides he wants to be a PowerTech Damage Dealer (or vice versa)? He still has to acquire the necessary gear to be able effectively deal damage/tank. He still has to learn a new rotation to effectively deal damage/tank.

 

Saying that being able to switch from a PowerTech to a Mercenary (or from any other Advanced Class to any other Advanced Class of any BASE CLASS) is like switching from an Bounty Hunter to a Sith Inquisitor (or from any BASE CLASS to any other BASE CLASS) is just stupid and trying to muddy the issue. Noone is asking for that.

 

People want flexibility inside their Base Class. Allowing an Advanced Class change would allow that. It wouldn't break the game. Many would use it, and many others wouldn't. Many would probably use the option on one toon but not on others (for exemple: I have no interest in trying out the Smuggler Scoundrel, because I love my Smuggler Gunslinger; on the other hand, I wouldn't mind being able to have my Trooper play as an Assault Vanguard every now and then and then swithching over to play as an Assault Commando every now and then; all I would have to do was switch in an Assault Cannon/Blaster Rifle. It would be fun, it would be the same toon and it would make perfect sense. ).

[Ratajack]

Yes. There are glaring differences but those differences are much less than the glaring similarities!

 

A Powertech cannot heal and Mercenary cannot taunt BUT they both:

- use pistols;

- use heavy armor;

- share 21 base Bounty Hunter abilities;

- have the same 5 companions;

- have the same ship and ship droid;

- have the exact same story.

 

A Juggernaut cannot dualwield and a Marauder cannot taunt BUT they both:

- use lightsabers;

- share 18 base Sith Warrior abilities;

- have the same 5 companions;

- have the same ship and ship droid;

- have the exact same story.

 

I could carry on, but you get the idea. (Or at least, I hope you do. Sometimes reading what you write I get the idea that you blank out what doesn't interest you...)

 

You argue that being able to switch an Advanced Class would be a way out for lazy people because it would allow them to switch from being able to do one thing (for exemple: tanking) to be able to do another thing (for exemple: healing) without having to level a new toon to be able to do so. I'm not sure that I understand your logic though.

 

Someone who switched from one Advanced Class to another would still have to do additional work. A PowerTech tank that switched to a Mercenary so he could heal would have to work to acquire the necessary gear and work on his rotation so that he could be an efffective healer. The same would be true for a Mercenary Healer who switched over to a PowerTech so that he could Tank. How is that lazy?

 

How is this any different than what currently happens when a PowerTech Tank decides he wants to be a PowerTech Damage Dealer (or vice versa)? He still has to acquire the necessary gear to be able effectively deal damage/tank. He still has to learn a new rotation to effectively deal damage/tank.

 

Saying that being able to switch from a PowerTech to a Mercenary (or from any other Advanced Class to any other Advanced Class of any BASE CLASS) is like switching from an Bounty Hunter to a Sith Inquisitor (or from any BASE CLASS to any other BASE CLASS) is just stupid and trying to muddy the issue. Noone is asking for that.

 

People want flexibility inside their Base Class. Allowing an Advanced Class change would allow that. It wouldn't break the game. Many would use it, and many others wouldn't. Many would probably use the option on one toon but not on others (for exemple: I have no interest in trying out the Smuggler Scoundrel, because I love my Smuggler Gunslinger; on the other hand, I wouldn't mind being able to have my Trooper play as an Assault Vanguard every now and then and then swithching over to play as an Assault Commando every now and then; all I would have to do was switch in an Assault Cannon/Blaster Rifle. It would be fun, it would be the same toon and it would make perfect sense. ).

 

Ok, since you want to talk about glaring similarities, let's talk about the fact that mages, warlocks and priests all have intellect as a primary stat. They all wear light armor. They all use mana. They all use many of the same weapons. They are all ranged classes. They are all spell casters. They are not the same class, much like sage and assassin are not the same class.

 

Let's talk about warriors and death knights. They both use heavy armor. They both use strength as a primary stat. They are both melee classes. They can both tank. They use many of the same weapons. They are not the same class, much like powertech and mercenary are not the same class.

 

Let's remember that the devs INTENTIONALLY designed the game so that NO SINGLE CHARACTER could fill all three roles, AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time. Allowing class changes would negate this design intent.

 

Does a commando know ANY of the vanguard skills? NO. Does a vanguard know ANY of the commando skills? NO. I hope that if they decide to cater to the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd, they make it so when you change your class, you forget all of the current class specific skills and have to pay to learn the new class specific skills. Want to change from vanguard to commando? You should lose ALL vanguard skills and have to pay to learn all the commando skills. Want to switch back? You should have to forget all commando skills and have to pay to relearn all the vanguard skills. I hope they do this in addition to resetting your level back to 10.

 

Maybe then the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd will actually EARN what they want instead of asking for freebies. Oh, who am I kidding? They will whine as loud as ever.

[ZeroPlus]

Here we go again... OK... let's go...

Ok, since you want to talk about glaring similarities, let's talk about the fact that mages, warlocks and priests all have intellect as a primary stat. They all wear light armor. They all use mana. They all use many of the same weapons. They are all ranged classes. They are all spell casters. They are not the same class, much like sage and assassin are not the same class.

SWTOR is not WoW. Having said that, Mages, Warlock and Priests are in fact not the same class. Just like a Bounty Hunter and a Sith Inquisitor are not the same class. However a Sage and a Shadow (not Assassin ) are the SAME BASE CLASS in that they are both Jedi Counselors (just as a Shadow Priest and Balance Priest are the SAME BASE CLASS with different spells and play mechanics).

 

Let's talk about warriors and death knights. They both use heavy armor. They both use strength as a primary stat. They are both melee classes. They can both tank. They use many of the same weapons. They are not the same class, much like powertech and mercenary are not the same class.

SWTOR is not WoW. Yes, Warriors and Death Knights are not the same class. Just like a Bounty Hunter and Sith Inquisitor are not the same class. However, the Powertech and the Mercenary are both BOUNTY HUNTERS!

 

Let's remember that the devs INTENTIONALLY designed the game so that NO SINGLE CHARACTER could fill all three roles, AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time. Allowing class changes would negate this design intent.

No class... I'll just say that again... NO CLASS can at this time, or any other time, fill any TWO rolls at the same time. They maybe able to off-heal/off-DPS/off-tank for limited time but they cannot fill any role for which they are not specifically specced. This argument is moot. To fill a role effectively, a player has to spec into the roll, have the gear to fill in that roll, the skill for it and the will to do it. So what if a Trooper can be a Tank, a Healer and a Damage Dealer? To fulfill any of those rolls the player behind the toon would have to respec into those rolls, have the gear for it, the skills for it and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the will to do it!

 

Does a commando know ANY of the vanguard skills? NO. Does a vanguard know ANY of the commando skills? NO. I hope that if they decide to cater to the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd, they make it so when you change your class, you forget all of the current class specific skills and have to pay to learn the new class specific skills. Want to change from vanguard to commando? You should lose ALL vanguard skills and have to pay to learn all the commando skills. Want to switch back? You should have to forget all commando skills and have to pay to relearn all the vanguard skills. I hope they do this in addition to resetting your level back to 10.

 

Maybe then the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd will actually EARN what they want instead of asking for freebies. Oh, who am I kidding? They will whine as loud as ever.

Since you like to refer to WoW so much, let me remind you that when class respecs were introduced in WoW this was exactly what happened: you had to relearn all the skills associated with switching from a, for exemple, Retribution Paladin to a Holy Paladin. I know, I was there when that was the reality. You know what happened? I do, because, again, I was there for it. They changed it so that you didn't have to relearn everything if you had already learned it before.

 

You keep calling the people who want this "lazy" and "entitled". Can you not understand that the people who really want this are anything but that. The people who want this are the ones who can see the advantages that this can bring to their groups. The ones who want this are the ones who already have 2 toons of the same base class but specced into either of the ACs, but who would prefer to have only one toon of the same base class (in many cases the second toon was powerlevelled to max level, is missing companions, has incomplete crew skills and ONLY EXISTS so that the player can field a tank/DPS/healer when his group needs it).

 

Seriously, get over this crusade of yours. The players who want this are the power players. The ones who min/max. The ones who raid daily. The ones who know this game in and out.

 

Being able to change your Advanced Class is not going to break this game. It is not going to provide anyone with an advantage. It is SIMPLY GOING TO OFFER THEM MORE FLEXIBILITY. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Ratajack]

Here we go again... OK... let's go...

 

SWTOR is not WoW. Having said that, Mages, Warlock and Priests are in fact not the same class. Just like a Bounty Hunter and a Sith Inquisitor are not the same class. However a Sage and a Shadow (not Assassin ) are the SAME BASE CLASS in that they are both Jedi Counselors (just as a Shadow Priest and Balance Priest are the SAME BASE CLASS with different spells and play mechanics).

 

Sage and shadow are DIFFERENT classes that share the same STORY LINE in the eyes of the devs. This has been backed up by the devs statements and those statements have been quoted manytimes int his thread. Those statements have NEVER been reversed nor contradicted and remain the last word from the devs regarding AC's being DIFFERENT classes. While many of the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd may wish otherwise, AC's ARE DIFFERENT classes.

 

The devs are the ones who make the decisions in this game, not you, nor I. I simply agree with the devs on this issue.

 

Sage is a different class than a shadow. One is ranged DPS/heals and the other is melee DPS/tank. One can stealth and the other cannot. One uses dual bladed light saber and one uses a single bladed light saber.

 

 

SWTOR is not WoW. Yes, Warriors and Death Knights are not the same class. Just like a Bounty Hunter and Sith Inquisitor are not the same class. However, the Powertech and the Mercenary are both BOUNTY HUNTERS!

 

Powertech and mercenary are DIFFERENT classes that share the same STORY LINE in the eyes of the devs. One is a melee DPS/tank and one is a ranged DPS/heals.

 

No class... I'll just say that again... NO CLASS can at this time, or any other time, fill any TWO rolls at the same time. They maybe able to off-heal/off-DPS/off-tank for limited time but they cannot fill any role for which they are not specifically specced. This argument is moot. To fill a role effectively, a player has to spec into the roll, have the gear to fill in that roll, the skill for it and the will to do it. So what if a Trooper can be a Tank, a Healer and a Damage Dealer? To fulfill any of those rolls the player behind the toon would have to respec into those rolls, have the gear for it, the skills for it and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the will to do it!

 

Again, the devs design intent was that NO SINGLE CHARACTER could tank, heal and DPS (AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time). This is why no AC can fill all three roles. This is one of the reasons why AC's are PERMANENT choices and why EACH AND EVERY PLAYER is advised no less than 4 times, by at least 2 separate NPC's that the choice is PERMANENT. Each and every player must also acknowledge that they KNOW this is a PERMANENT choice by clicking the confirm button in the confirmation box when the choice is made.

 

 

Since you like to refer to WoW so much, let me remind you that when class respecs were introduced in WoW this was exactly what happened: you had to relearn all the skills associated with switching from a, for exemple, Retribution Paladin to a Holy Paladin. I know, I was there when that was the reality. You know what happened? I do, because, again, I was there for it. They changed it so that you didn't have to relearn everything if you had already learned it before.

 

I was playing WoW from the beginning also, and I do remember that. Look how far down that slippery slope WoW has gone in an effort to cater to the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd.

 

You keep calling the people who want this "lazy" and "entitled". Can you not understand that the people who really want this are anything but that. The people who want this are the ones who can see the advantages that this can bring to their groups. The ones who want this are the ones who already have 2 toons of the same base class but specced into either of the ACs, but who would prefer to have only one toon of the same base class (in many cases the second toon was powerlevelled to max level, is missing companions, has incomplete crew skills and ONLY EXISTS so that the player can field a tank/DPS/healer when his group needs it).

 

You're proving my point. Now you're admitting that many of the "lazy, entitled, have to have to have it now and for as little effort as possible crowd" are so averse to the minimal effort to level that other class that they are getting others to help them level to avoid the minimal time and effort to even complete the story lines.

 

 

Seriously, get over this crusade of yours. The players who want this are the power players. The ones who min/max. The ones who raid daily. The ones who know this game in and out.

 

Being able to change your Advanced Class is not going to break this game. It is not going to provide anyone with an advantage. It is SIMPLY GOING TO OFFER THEM MORE FLEXIBILITY. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Some of the players who want to change their class may be power players, but many are not. Many simply want to change their class simply because the one they chose got nerfed, or the other one got buffed. Many simply want to level "easy mode", for example smash monkey marauder, but then want to tank at end game.

 

Allowing class changes may not "break" this game, but it WILL cost BW subs. We, the players, have no way of knowing how many subs. We, the players, have no way of knowing if BW stands to lose more in guaranteed, recurring monthly subs than they may make in quick, one time CM sales if they allow class changes. That is a decision that only BW can make as they are the ones with the information. So far, it seems that they have chosen to keep the guaranteed, recurring monthly income from subs. This may be the smartest thing for them to do, financially speaking. After all, they have both those who want to see class changes implemented and those that are against allowing class changes paying and playing as it stands.

[Anzel]

So we have over 4,000 responses from the same 4 or 5 people trying to spoil everyone else's good time. Great job guys. You are truly ruining the game for everyone else with your petty little arguments.

 

1.) You are not accomplishing anything while playing a video game. If you are entertaining yourself while playing it then you've accomplished the most you will ever accomplish.

 

2.) There are no consequences in a video game. You don't add another quarter. You aren't effecting world peace. You aren't elevating you chi to another level of awareness. It's a video game.

 

3.) You are not, repeat NOT a Commando or a Mercenary or a Jedi Show, etc. You are a person who is sitting on their butt playing a game with a bunch of pixels. Nobody cares.

 

If you really want to do something meaningful or something that really matters then go learn a foreign language, or get your 1/4 mile time under 50 seconds or get your bench/squat/shrug up to 1.5 to 2.0 times your body weight. Maybe learn to cook fancy Beef Wellington that Gordon Ramsey is always going on about.

 

In the mean time, this is a game. A silly little video game. It should be fun. Any such additions or modifications to the game should be solely to benefit the players, the amount of entertainment they get and quality of life. I mean really.

[Ottoattack]

There are many angles for this discussion, I think the most important one (and the players do not care about) is money. Will allowing AC change impact subs? I do not think someone will leave, because it is implemented, but it may impact subs as there is no reason for me to re-roll a new toon to try a merc if I have PT. This may impact how long many players spend time in the game; staying as subs.

 

The bottom line is there is no subs that will be generated from implementing this feature, but potentially some loss of subs if it is implemented. On the flip side, for someone like me, who has so many toons and had lvl 50 legacy for a while, I would like to be able to change AC for so many reasons. Example, merc are better dps in PvE and PTs are better dps in PvP. When I PvP I respec PT and when I PvE I respec merc.

 

Considering how many posts the thread has, a gold post is needed to clarify where do the devs stand.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Ottoattack

[Wishiwas]

I'm really trying to figure out what the rage is about when it comes to changing advance classes. I mean really most ppl it wouldn't affect in the least. Other then just not letting people have what they want I really don't get the reasons why so many hate the idea.

 

Played SWG and in the nge you could respec into whatever of the 9 classes you wanted at anytime so long as you had the cash. What happen total chaos, not really it gave my guild the ability to have ppl willing to change their class do just that so we could do endgame instances when we couldn't get a healer or a tank.

 

Played wow and did the dual spec as a Protection Pally and a holy pally. even respeced a few times my holy over to ret to dps. I geared all three specs out and had one set on me and other set in the change slots option and another in my bank or inventory. Did it cause alot of problems when it went thru. Not in my guild. Hell I was off tank and the guild I was in geared me and gave me the gold to dual spec. Never played Holy Paladin and did fine once I had the right gear. Didn't need to level up 1-70 to figure out how to do it cause the moves all say what they do and there are more sites then most would ever even look at with guides for every spec and how to spec and rotation to use along with where to get starter gear all the way up thru progression to the top tier gear for that spec.

 

So sorry I don't think you need to level a character to know how to play it. Aslong as you can read and have alittle intelligence you will be ok. Personally I know alot of players that leveled from 1 to max level on games and never learned how to play a role they picked in all those levels and wouldn't ever learn no matter how hard they try. Some only have the mentality or mind set to play one role no matter what game it is and alot just do dps cause well its alot easier to learn how to play that and you don't usually get yelled out when everyone gets wiped.

 

Can it be used by lazy ppl well yea, just like it can be used by those that would use it to help their friends or guild out by changing specs to fill a role that needed. Will it cause some bad probably, but also good will come of it. Guess what some people will abuse it and exploit it for flavor of the month or to get out of a spec that was good but got nerfed to crap. Some won't ever touch a system if it is put in. Most will use it for purposes that not only keep them playing but make it easier on others trying to play this game.

 

Honestly the one thing that makes me both love and hate MMO's are they are ever changing and all have it in the eula they can change the whole game at any time in anyway they want whenever they want to. They are ever evolving. What is said today and is set in stone can easily be written away tomorrow. It is all up to the devs as always and they will be the ones to judge which is more profitable way to go. Once they decide which will give them more cash they will head in that direction. So whichever side your on in this debate just remember its not what the players want but what they are willing to spend that will make their mind. up for them.

[Ratajack]

I'm really trying to figure out what the rage is about when it comes to changing advance classes. I mean really most ppl it wouldn't affect in the least. Other then just not letting people have what they want I really don't get the reasons why so many hate the idea.

 

Played SWG and in the nge you could respec into whatever of the 9 classes you wanted at anytime so long as you had the cash. What happen total chaos, not really it gave my guild the ability to have ppl willing to change their class do just that so we could do endgame instances when we couldn't get a healer or a tank.

 

Played wow and did the dual spec as a Protection Pally and a holy pally. even respeced a few times my holy over to ret to dps. I geared all three specs out and had one set on me and other set in the change slots option and another in my bank or inventory. Did it cause alot of problems when it went thru. Not in my guild. Hell I was off tank and the guild I was in geared me and gave me the gold to dual spec. Never played Holy Paladin and did fine once I had the right gear. Didn't need to level up 1-70 to figure out how to do it cause the moves all say what they do and there are more sites then most would ever even look at with guides for every spec and how to spec and rotation to use along with where to get starter gear all the way up thru progression to the top tier gear for that spec.

 

So sorry I don't think you need to level a character to know how to play it. Aslong as you can read and have alittle intelligence you will be ok. Personally I know alot of players that leveled from 1 to max level on games and never learned how to play a role they picked in all those levels and wouldn't ever learn no matter how hard they try. Some only have the mentality or mind set to play one role no matter what game it is and alot just do dps cause well its alot easier to learn how to play that and you don't usually get yelled out when everyone gets wiped.

 

Can it be used by lazy ppl well yea, just like it can be used by those that would use it to help their friends or guild out by changing specs to fill a role that needed. Will it cause some bad probably, but also good will come of it. Guess what some people will abuse it and exploit it for flavor of the month or to get out of a spec that was good but got nerfed to crap. Some won't ever touch a system if it is put in. Most will use it for purposes that not only keep them playing but make it easier on others trying to play this game.

 

Honestly the one thing that makes me both love and hate MMO's are they are ever changing and all have it in the eula they can change the whole game at any time in anyway they want whenever they want to. They are ever evolving. What is said today and is set in stone can easily be written away tomorrow. It is all up to the devs as always and they will be the ones to judge which is more profitable way to go. Once they decide which will give them more cash they will head in that direction. So whichever side your on in this debate just remember its not what the players want but what they are willing to spend that will make their mind. up for them.

 

You can change your spec in WoW. You can go from holy paladin heals to retribution paladin DPS. You cannot change your class and go from holy paladin heals to fury warrior DPS, though.

 

You can change your spec in this game. You can go from sorcerer heals to sorcerer DPS for no cost if you are subscriber. You cannot, however, change your class and go from sorcerer heals to assassin tank.

 

As for money, allowing class changes may cause a quick burst of one time income from those that wish to change their class, but there ARE plenty of people who feel strongly enough about not allowing class changes, that it WILL cost them subs. How many subs, only BW can know. We do know there are enough people who are against class changes that there was an overwhelming majority AGAINST allowing class changes in the polls that BW took regarding AC changing.

 

This is why each and ever y player is advised at least 4 separate times, by at least 2 separate NPC's that their choice of AC is PERMANENT. This is why each and every player has to acknowledge that they KNOW they are making a PERMANENT choice and that the choice they are making is the one they want to make by clicking the confirm box int he confirmation window. This is why we now have a separate box for each of the AC's and we can see the trees for each of the AC's prior to selecting an AC.

[Anzel]

You can change your spec in WoW. You can go from holy paladin heals to retribution paladin DPS. You cannot change your class and go from holy paladin heals to fury warrior DPS, though.

 

You can change your spec in this game. You can go from sorcerer heals to sorcerer DPS for no cost if you are subscriber. You cannot, however, change your class and go from sorcerer heals to assassin tank.

 

As for money, allowing class changes may cause a quick burst of one time income from those that wish to change their class, but there ARE plenty of people who feel strongly enough about not allowing class changes, that it WILL cost them subs. How many subs, only BW can know. We do know there are enough people who are against class changes that there was an overwhelming majority AGAINST allowing class changes in the polls that BW took regarding AC changing.

 

This is why each and ever y player is advised at least 4 separate times, by at least 2 separate NPC's that their choice of AC is PERMANENT. This is why each and every player has to acknowledge that they KNOW they are making a PERMANENT choice and that the choice they are making is the one they want to make by clicking the confirm box int he confirmation window. This is why we now have a separate box for each of the AC's and we can see the trees for each of the AC's prior to selecting an AC.

 

Blah blah blah blah blah. Who cares? It's a game. Not even a game that you play outside and burn calories. It's a silly video game. Nobody cares. Let me repeat that again. Nobody... and I mean NOBODY cares. They will add this feature when the figure out a way to make money from it. Period.

[Denerio]

Blah blah blah blah blah. Who cares? It's a game. Not even a game that you play outside and burn calories. It's a silly video game. Nobody cares. Let me repeat that again. Nobody... and I mean NOBODY cares. They will add this feature when the figure out a way to make money from it. Period.

 

You are right. The only thing they care about is making money. Just a matter of time before we start seeing faction changes and sex changes up for sale in CM.

[ZeroPlus]

...

The devs are the ones who make the decisions in this game, not you, nor I.

I agree with you on this. It is their decision. They will change it so that you can change your AC or they won't.

Personally, I believe that they will at some point. Probably in a year or two's time. Why? Because the game will have matured to a point where it will make sense to do so. By then probably 2 more expansions will have come out. By then the level cap will probably be 70 (or more, or less). There may even be a Chapter 4 for the class stories. Believe it or not, even the Developers play this game. When this becomes something THEY want it will happen.

 

I simply agree with the devs on this issue.

Good for you. I also agree with their right to not change this at this time. Hopefully you will still be in agreement with their right to develop this game they way they want to if they ever change this.

 

Sage is a different class than a shadow. One is ranged DPS/heals and the other is melee DPS/tank. One can stealth and the other cannot. One uses dual bladed light saber and one uses a single bladed light saber.

I think we need to agree to disagree on this one. You mention that the only thing in common is their story. I believe they have more in common than that. I also believe that their stories are what define them and not the way their Advanced Classes play.

 

Powertech and mercenary are DIFFERENT classes that share the same STORY LINE in the eyes of the devs. One is a melee DPS/tank and one is a ranged DPS/heals.

See the above comment.

 

Again, the devs design intent was that NO SINGLE CHARACTER could tank, heal and DPS (AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time). This is why no AC can fill all three roles. This is one of the reasons why AC's are PERMANENT choices and why EACH AND EVERY PLAYER is advised no less than 4 times, by at least 2 separate NPC's that the choice is PERMANENT. Each and every player must also acknowledge that they KNOW this is a PERMANENT choice by clicking the confirm button in the confirmation box when the choice is made.

You do realize that even if this ever changes and people can change their Advanced Class only the Aim and Willpower classes will be in a position to be able to Tank/DPS/Heal by changing their AC, don't you? The Strength and Cunning classes will only ever be able to fill 2 of those rolls.

Again, this will change or it won't at the Developer's discretion. I just don't think that it won't change because of this reason. The reasoning behind it (the " NO SINGLE CHARACTER could tank, heal and DPS (AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time)") just won't make sense anymore at some point.

 

I was playing WoW from the beginning also, and I do remember that. Look how far down that slippery slope WoW has gone in an effort to cater to the "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd.

What are you talking about? If you were there, you must have realized that the ability to "field respec" without having to teleport back to the capital city and then be summoned back was the best thing that ever happened to raiding guilds! The "lazy", the "entitled" never took advantage of it. Saying that this caused a slide down a slippery slope is just silly. Have you looked at the subscription numbers of WoW lately? It is still the big dog out there...

 

You're proving my point. Now you're admitting that many of the "lazy, entitled, have to have to have it now and for as little effort as possible crowd" are so averse to the minimal effort to level that other class that they are getting others to help them level to avoid the minimal time and effort to even complete the story lines.

HAHA... you think Power Levelling means that players had others help them? No mate, it just means that the player took the most efficient route in levelling to get to max level. They used XP Boosts, they used Rested XP, they did Space Missions, Daily quests, PvP, Flashpoints, they bought the Legacy unlocks to increase the XP they gained from these activities. That means they are "lazy"? That they are "entitled"? This is being averse to "minimal effort"? Geez dude... think before you write...

 

Some of the players who want to change their class may be power players, but many are not. Many simply want to change their class simply because the one they chose got nerfed, or the other one got buffed. Many simply want to level "easy mode", for example smash monkey marauder, but then want to tank at end game.

Sure, some will use it to switch to the "flavor of the month". Or to switch from being in melee range to being at 30m range. How will that be bad? So what if they level as a "smash monkey marauder" and then switch to the Juggernaut AC so they tank? If they have the skill to do it, how will that be bad?

 

Allowing class changes may not "break" this game, but it WILL cost BW subs. We, the players, have no way of knowing how many subs. We, the players, have no way of knowing if BW stands to lose more in guaranteed, recurring monthly subs than they may make in quick, one time CM sales if they allow class changes. That is a decision that only BW can make as they are the ones with the information. So far, it seems that they have chosen to keep the guaranteed, recurring monthly income from subs. This may be the smartest thing for them to do, financially speaking. After all, they have both those who want to see class changes implemented and those that are against allowing class changes paying and playing as it stands.

How will this cost subscriptions? Seriously, that argument against allowing AC changes makes no sense. How many players are currently considering no longer playing (or paying a subscription) because they want to try another AC but don't want to level through the same story content of the class? I don't know and neither to do you. I personally do believe though that allowing people to have this flexibility will keep players playing for longer because it will allow them change the way they play without having to do something they don't want to do.

 

In summary, this will happen or it won't. The decision will be the Developer's decision. I just think your arguments against this happening are nonsensical and illogical.

[Anzel]

You are right. The only thing they care about is making money. Just a matter of time before we start seeing faction changes and sex changes up for sale in CM.

 

That's the real tragedy of SWTOR. BioWare built an awesome game and then EA totally and utterly ruined its chances of success with the way they implemented the Cartel Market.

 

Instead of focusing on incentives to grow their subscriber base which would mean long term success they decided to do almost nothing but sell gambling packs to children to make quick cash. It sucks really because they would make so much more money in the long run by trying to increase subs. They would've had a much better game, a better community, and a massive revenue generator.

 

This is literally one tiny step above a Ponzi scheme.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Anzel

[TUXs]

Sage and shadow are DIFFERENT classes that share the same STORY LINE in the eyes of the devs.

Wrong. Sage and Shadow are simply Advanced Classes of the Jedi Consular Class. Jedi Consular is the CLASS.

According to Bioware there are only 4 classes per faction: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes

[Ratajack]

Blah blah blah blah blah. Who cares? It's a game. Not even a game that you play outside and burn calories. It's a silly video game. Nobody cares. Let me repeat that again. Nobody... and I mean NOBODY cares. They will add this feature when the figure out a way to make money from it. Period.

 

Judging from this thread, there are plenty of people who care. You may not agree with them, and you may wish they did not care, but they DO care.

 

There were enough people who cared that BW chose NOT to allow class changes. There are enough people who care that BW STILL doesn't allow class changes. There are enough people who care that BW continues to remain ABSOLUTELY SILENT on this subject despite multiple threads.

[Anzel]

Judging from this thread, there are plenty of people who care. You may not agree with them, and you may wish they did not care, but they DO care.

 

There were enough people who cared that BW chose NOT to allow class changes. There are enough people who care that BW STILL doesn't allow class changes. There are enough people who care that BW continues to remain ABSOLUTELY SILENT on this subject despite multiple threads.

 

Judging by this thread there are like 5 people who have posted 3,000 out of the 4,000 responses who care.

 

I could drown this thread in half a dozen other such issues ranging from Speeder Piloting requirements to Skill Respecs. Same arguments, 4 or 5 tough guys trying to ruin the game for everyone else. Same results. EA/BW making the game more accessible. Also, nobody cares. It's a video game.

[Ratajack]

Wrong. Sage and Shadow are simply Advanced Classes of the Jedi Consular Class. Jedi Consular is the CLASS.

According to Bioware there are only 4 classes per faction: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes

 

There have been multiple statements from BW, quoted many times in this thread, in which the devs stated that they see AC's a fundamentally DIFFERENT class designs and that they treated each AC as a full class in itself. Even the holonet page which you linked shows the two advanced CLASSES, not advanced specs, available to each story line and even gives the three skill trees available to each advanced CLASS.

[TUXs]

There have been multiple statements from BW, quoted many times in this thread, in which the devs stated that they see AC's a fundamentally DIFFERENT class designs and that they treated each AC as a full class in itself. Even the holonet page which you linked shows the two advanced CLASSES, not advanced specs, available to each story line and even gives the three skill trees available to each advanced CLASS.

 

The link I supplied shows that there are ONLY 8 "Classes", despite your best pretending there's more. The AC is NOT the CLASS and that page confirms it. Changing AC is NOT the same as changing CLASS.

[Critical-]

For those people who ''whine'' about not wanting to level through the same storyline, get this.

First char was a Juggernaut, at lvl 55 and many months i decided i wanted a Marauder and check this i didnt go whine about a AC change but i lvled a Sentinel.

 

If they should give a AC class change they should give it for free and for 15 - 30 lvl only, after that choice made simple.

[Ratajack]

The link I supplied shows that there are ONLY 8 "Classes", despite your best pretending there's more. The AC is NOT the CLASS and that page confirms it. Changing AC is NOT the same as changing CLASS.

 

Explain all those quotes from the devs stating that the AC's a fundamentally DIFFERENT class designs, that they treated each AC as a full class, that they INTENTIONALLY designed the game so that NO SINGLE CHARACTER could tank, DPS and heal. In fact , they designed the game so that NO SINGLE CHARACTER has access to tanking and healing skills AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time.

[TUXs]

Explain all those quotes from the devs stating that the AC's a fundamentally DIFFERENT class designs, that they treated each AC as a full class, that they INTENTIONALLY designed the game so that NO SINGLE CHARACTER could tank, DPS and heal. In fact , they designed the game so that NO SINGLE CHARACTER has access to tanking and healing skills AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time.

 

Why should I explain them? You're the one pretending they mean something. They also swore this game would never go F2P...even went so far as to mock F2P games...that changed didn't it?

[Anzel]

Why should I explain them? You're the one pretending they mean something. They also swore this game would never go F2P...even went so far as to mock F2P games...that changed didn't it?

 

None of it means anything Tuxy. They are just trying to pretend that it does. My guess is that they have absolutely no control over anything else in their lives so they are trying to control some meaningless conversation here on the forums.

[Ratajack]

Why should I explain them? You're the one pretending they mean something. They also swore this game would never go F2P...even went so far as to mock F2P games...that changed didn't it?

 

Have they said ANYTHING to contradict those statements about AC's being DIFFERENT classes? That would be a NO.

 

Have they said ANYTHING, given even a hint or a whisper about class changes since that ambiguous statement they made over a year ago? That would be a NO, despite this over 400 page thread and countless other threads from members of the "entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" crowd asking to be able to change their class.

 

IMO, the dev's earlier statements about AC's being different classes and their current complete and total silence on this topic speak volumes. IMO, if they were even considering allowing class changes, even in a limited form, there would have been some sort of response or comment from the devs. I'm hoping that they continue to disallow class changes in any form and continue to keep the choice of AC PERMANENT.