ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Ratajack]

I'll give one sensible one, at least sensible IMO. The reaction to allowing it would probably be pretty negative overall with the remaining hardcore/traditional players overall.

 

It's just a guess, no more than that, but I think it's a sensible one. This is a pretty sensitive item.

 

Note that that does not mean I think it should not be offered....I would naturally prefer it not be offered, but if the majority wants it I can't stand in the way of that.

 

But I think most reasonable people have to concede this will likely not be a very popular change with the hardcore community.

 

Note...I realize that the hardcore/traditional player community is shrinking every day. So at some point the impact of that playerbase will likely be negligible.

 

I do not think that time has yet arrived.

[LordArtemis]

I do not think that time has yet arrived.

 

No, certainly not.

[Lyshar]

People are reluctant to defend their wanting to allow change against the concerns brought up. Made a lengthy post, result was people going on arguing whether or not Advanced Classes are Classes or not.

 

People are already having trouble learning the advanced class they are playing, or at least the role they are supposed to have and communication in general (this discussion isn't helping overall expectations in that area either). It can only get worse if advanced class changes are going to be a mindless reality.

 

There have to be conditions if it comes to this!

 

For example a sorcerer and assassin aren't just slightly different classes, they are a completely different play style! As you level up one becomes more skilled in force abilities and have their range increased a lot, where the other becomes better at melee abilities or at least shorter ranged ones.

 

When a sorcerer goes assassin they will first find their range reduced by a lot, they will also only have their shared skills left, unless you want them to also be given the skills they haven't practiced yet for free. That is part of the leveling process, get new skills along the way so you can use each to help master them.

 

Skills aren't just shared for a part, the shared skills can work differently for the advanced class (whirlwind lasting eight seconds or a minute, and of course the before mentioned range).

 

Another example is a guardian going sentinel, not only do you have another new set of skills, you go from heavy armor to medium, as well as from using a focus/shield to using 2 lightsabers, which the earlier example also has to deal with just not with two lightsabers but with a single/double one.

 

There are complications to dealing with advanced class changes, discuss those rather than discussing whether or not they are classes.

 

So if you take the people arguing semantics and compare them to my few simple examples... one has to conclude I win the discussion by myself.

 

However, I am not saying it should not be a possibility (though I think that is best to not allow it), but if it is possible there should be conditions.

 

To make sure people know what they are getting into put some requirements on it. For example to change a guardian to a sentinel one should have leveled a sentinel or marauder to level 50 or 55 already so that you know how they play. And to avoid whining or at least be able to tell people they were warned put in a warning pop-up message they have to accept before they can change their class, something like "Your gear will probably become useless and you will have to learn the skills for the new advanced class. DO YOU ACCEPT THIS?".

Edited August 4, 2013 by Lyshar

[Soluss]

And if either or both happens, so what? No one's gonna make someone who doesn't want to do one or both do either.

 

I'll say it again: it's just a game. If someone stops liking it, they will move on to another game.

 

You keep saying, so what its just a game and people will move on if they don't like it. The more changes they make, that people don't like, the more that will move on. At some point they need to weigh in whether or not a change will make a bunch of people leave. You may not care if the game goes maintenance mode or eventually gets shut down but other people do care. You know this because you know that the game cannot continue without money. Its been stated over and over, by you, that its all about money.

 

Some changes are simply just bad for the game. Whether AC change is or is not bad for the game, no one truly knows for sure. I believe it would be. You believe it wont be. "Who cares" is the wrong answer.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Soluss

[Grayseven]

People are reluctant to defend their wanting to allow change against the concerns brought up. Made a lengthy post, result was people going on arguing whether or not Advanced Classes are Classes or not.

 

People are already having trouble learning the advanced class they are playing, or at least the role they are supposed to have and communication in general (this discussion isn't helping overall expectations in that area either). It can only get worse if advanced class changes are going to be a mindless reality.

 

There have to be conditions if it comes to this!

 

For example a sorcerer and assassin aren't just slightly different classes, they are a completely different play style! As you level up one becomes more skilled in force abilities and have their range increased a lot, where the other becomes better at melee abilities or at least shorter ranged ones.

 

When a sorcerer goes assassin they will first find their range reduced by a lot, they will also only have their shared skills left, unless you want them to also be given the skills they haven't practiced yet for free. That is part of the leveling process, get new skills along the way so you can use each to help master them.

 

Skills aren't just shared for a part, the shared skills can work differently for the advanced class (whirlwind lasting eight seconds or a minute, and of course the before mentioned range).

 

Another example is a guardian going sentinel, not only do you have another new set of skills, you go from heavy armor to medium, as well as from using a focus/shield to using 2 lightsabers, which the earlier example also has to deal with just not with two lightsabers but with a single/double one.

 

There are complications to dealing with advanced class changes, discuss those rather than discussing whether or not they are classes.

 

So if you take the people arguing semantics and compare them to my few simple examples... one has to conclude I win the discussion by myself.

 

However, I am not saying it should not be a possibility (though I think that is best to not allow it), but if it is possible there should be conditions.

 

To make sure people know what they are getting into put some requirements on it. For example to change a guardian to a sentinel one should have leveled a sentinel or marauder to level 50 or 55 already so that you know how they play. And to avoid whining or at least be able to tell people they were warned put in a warning pop-up message they have to accept before they can change their class, something like "Your gear will probably become useless and you will have to learn the skills for the new advanced class. DO YOU ACCEPT THIS?".

 

Someone who is already bad at playing is going to be just as bad playing a new AC. Someone who is good at playing an AC is going to be good at playing a new AC.

 

This is a false argument that keeps getting batted around this thread. It doesn't work simply because it assumes that anyone changing AC is going to be bad at the new AC, when the only assumption that can be made is that a bad player is going to be bad and a good player good.

 

Most of us playing easily bounce between alts of different classes as well as different spec's within the AC's, so changing from Shadow to Sage will not make anyone already good at playing one AC bad at another regardless of minor changes like fight range or less pew-pew and more glow bat.

 

Gear is another thing that gets brought up. While there may be some minor differences in gearing, the truth is that making the changes needed to bring your numbers up to a new AC are simply a matter of running in a few groups. Honestly, I already run with two sets of gear on my Commando because as a Combat Medic I don't need Accuracy but as a Gunnery DPS I do. It wasn't hard to build two good sets for two separate specs, it won't be hard to tweak those sets for a new AC.

 

I find it funny that people try to make all of this sound like a herculean task when in fact it will be brutally easy for anyone with any experience in the game.

[Lyshar]

Someone who is already bad at playing is going to be just as bad playing a new AC. Someone who is good at playing an AC is going to be good at playing a new AC.

 

That is just not true. There are plenty of people bad at the low levels but as they get higher they learn. Everyone has to learn sometime. There are plenty that don't seem to want to learn or even refuse to, for those it won't matter. But for the majority I like to think that practice makes perfect, or at least adequate.

 

This is a false argument that keeps getting batted around this thread. It doesn't work simply because it assumes that anyone changing AC is going to be bad at the new AC, when the only assumption that can be made is that a bad player is going to be bad and a good player good.

 

Not saying you are automatically bad at the new one, just that there's a lot new things to learn. There is some overlapping, but you don't know everything and some things are different while called the same. I already meet more than enough people that go "Oh, I have a CC ability?"

 

Most of us playing easily bounce between alts of different classes as well as different spec's within the AC's, so changing from Shadow to Sage will not make anyone already good at playing one AC bad at another regardless of minor changes like fight range or less pew-pew and more glow bat.

 

We don't know if most of us can, frankly I doubt it. I know I have some natural ability to pick up on the basics easy, but I still prefer the way it is now. You get one or two skills at a time, you can play with them before you get the next.

 

We're not talking about people that are already playing both and know the basics of both. We're talking of people that may have played one and not the other. People may get overwhelmed by the mountain of new skills that they first need to acquire.

 

Gear is another thing that gets brought up. While there may be some minor differences in gearing, the truth is that making the changes needed to bring your numbers up to a new AC are simply a matter of running in a few groups. Honestly, I already run with two sets of gear on my Commando because as a Combat Medic I don't need Accuracy but as a Gunnery DPS I do. It wasn't hard to build two good sets for two separate specs, it won't be hard to tweak those sets for a new AC.

 

It's not hard to prepare for it yourself, but not everyone is prepared. I still see assassins running around with single sabers in mid-high level FPs. You and I may be able to cope, others definitely can't.

 

I find it funny that people try to make all of this sound like a herculean task when in fact it will be brutally easy for anyone with any experience in the game.

 

I'm saying there is more to it than meets the eye, and there are plenty of people that do need to be protected from making stupid mistakes they are not ready for. Cause if they make those mistakes others are affected by it. You and me can deal with our own actions, but I hate to see group content fall apart because other people didn't know.

 

So what's wrong with making people have had a level 50 or 55 of the other AC on this or the other faction?

So what is wrong with putting a big warning message before you accept the advanced class change?

Edited August 4, 2013 by Lyshar

[LanceCorporalDan]

I see no need, I want to play a different class, I re-roll. Just as in every other MMO I've played.

[Ratajack]

So what is wrong with putting a big warning message before you accept the advanced class change?

 

Do you mean like the big "THIS CHOICE IS PERMANENT" warnings every player sees and acknowledges when they choose their AC? Do you mean the warnings that those who want class changes acknowledged and accepted but are now trying to get around?

 

We already have restrictions on class changes in place. These restrictions were designed and implemented by the devs, not the players. These restrictions have been in place since before the game was released, and are still in place despite the cries for class changes. Each and every player knows what those restrictions are, since each and every player sees the warnings and even has to click the confirmation boxes acknowledging that they saw and understand the warnings.

 

I guess some people either do not understand the word PERMANENT or they simply think the "rules" don't apply to them.

[Grayseven]

The problem with your talking points, Ratajack, is that the very same issues come to the fore for anyone leveling up a new toon. Whether they take a current toon and change to the other AC, or level up a toon of the new AC from scratch, they will run into the same issues.

 

AC change simply takes leveling out of the equation. The boring, mind-numbing grind just to check out the other AC in your class is entirely unnecessary.

 

Once you've leveled a character to 55, every other character...no matter if it's ranged or melee, dps or tank...will be easier. Anyone can learn a new AC by doing nothing more than Makeb dailies after a little research on rotations and builds at the most. We don't need to "play around" with new abilities from level to level to learn, we only need to play around with them. Whether we do the playing around one ability at a time or all of them at once doesn't matter.

 

Bad players will be bad until they learn to be good. It doesn't matter if they are bad at Commando or Vanguard, they will still be bad. Heck, allowing them to change an AC might actually let them discover the play style that bests suits them...making them better players in the process...and not punish them for an arbitrary decision 10 levels into the characters existence when newer players haven't got a real clue outside of a couple of paragraphs that poorly describe each AC.

[branmakmuffin]

You keep saying, so what its just a game and people will move on if they don't like it. The more changes they make, that people don't like, the more that will move on.

Maybe, maybe not. And if so, so what?

 

At some point they need to weigh in whether or not a change will make a bunch of people leave. You may not care if the game goes maintenance mode or eventually gets shut down but other people do care.

Let them care. Who cares?

 

You know this because you know that the game cannot continue without money. Its been stated over and over, by you, that its all about money.

It is all about money. If BWEA determined that AC change would be bad overall money-wise, they wouldn't do it. If they determined it would be good overall, they would do it. End of story.

 

Some changes are simply just bad for the game.

No, some changes are bad for the game in your opinion.

 

Whether AC change is or is not bad for the game, no one truly knows for sure. I believe it would be. You believe it wont be. "Who cares" is the wrong answer.

"Who cares?" is the only reasonable answer. If you are so wrapped up in TOR that it matters that much to you whether it lives or dies, perhaps you need a break. It's a game, not a social justice movement. Get a grip. I will play as long as I enjoy it. When I stop enjoying it, I will quit. Same is true for you. Same is true for everyone. By definition, no one engages in a leisure activity they do not enjoy on some level and for one reason or another. And eventually, the game will die.

[MajikMyst]

And if either or both happens, so what? No one's gonna make someone who doesn't want to do one or both do either.

 

I'll say it again: it's just a game. If someone stops liking it, they will move on to another game.

 

It is not just a game.. It is a means for a company to make money.. If everyone leaves because of a change that nobody likes.. Then the game can be shut down.. Played SWG lately?? That was just a game too... Where is it now??

 

It is not just a game.. I thought you were smarter than that bran..

Edited August 4, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

That's a stupid example.

Druids can be stealth melee dps, ranged caster dps, melee tank or healers ...

The problem about this change is that you would effectively have 4 different classes with 6skilltrees, which really is not enough.

 

And a driud is the exact reason we do not need class swapping in this game.. Characters are supposed to be different hence the point of having a class..

 

There is no problem here.. No changing classes is the rule here.. As it is in WOW..

[Ratajack]

The problem with your talking points, Ratajack, is that the very same issues come to the fore for anyone leveling up a new toon. Whether they take a current toon and change to the other AC, or level up a toon of the new AC from scratch, they will run into the same issues.

 

AC change simply takes leveling out of the equation. The boring, mind-numbing grind just to check out the other AC in your class is entirely unnecessary.

 

Once you've leveled a character to 55, every other character...no matter if it's ranged or melee, dps or tank...will be easier. Anyone can learn a new AC by doing nothing more than Makeb dailies after a little research on rotations and builds at the most. We don't need to "play around" with new abilities from level to level to learn, we only need to play around with them. Whether we do the playing around one ability at a time or all of them at once doesn't matter.

 

Bad players will be bad until they learn to be good. It doesn't matter if they are bad at Commando or Vanguard, they will still be bad. Heck, allowing them to change an AC might actually let them discover the play style that bests suits them...making them better players in the process...and not punish them for an arbitrary decision 10 levels into the characters existence when newer players haven't got a real clue outside of a couple of paragraphs that poorly describe each AC.

 

 

What people are asking for is class change because they don't want to have to put forth the time and minimal effort to actually level that new class. If you want to play a different class, you can do that now. You simply have to put forth a modicum of time and effort to do so, and that is not a bad thing. It gives those players time to learn the new class while leveling.

 

Name two mainstream MMO's that allow class changes. If you want to play a different class, you can do that now. You simply have to put forth a modicum of time and effort to do so, and that is not a bad thing. It gives those players time to learn the new class while leveling.

 

I'm sorry if you feel that leveling is a grind. Welcome to world of MMO's. Doing dailies is a grind, but if you want to earn those credits, you have to do those dailies. Doing the same OPS week after week is a grind, but you have to do those OPS to get the best gear. Getting a new class is no different. If you want to play a new class, you have to level that class. Those are the game mechanics, as designed and implemented by the devs, not the players.

 

Yes, the devs can change those mechanics any time they wish, but they are under NO obligation to do so simply because some players want to play a new class but don't want to bother leveling that new class.

[Grayseven]

And a driud is the exact reason we do not need class swapping in this game.. Characters are supposed to be different hence the point of having a class..

 

There is no problem here.. No changing classes is the rule here.. As it is in WOW..

 

You're right, we shouldn't be able to switch classes because the classes are different. The AC's are more similar than different within the class, however. You can not compare WoW to SWTOR because WoW does not split classes up into sub-classes.

 

But if you want to use the WoW example, look at how different each Druid spec is. No one says that a Restoration Druid who switches to a Feral spec is now "bad" because the two spec's are so incredibly different in feel and execution. Or look at the difference between Destruction Warlocks and Demonology 'locks. They are also extremely different in play and execution. And all Druid and Warlock (or all WoW) spec's often share less similarities between specs than SWTOR's spec's in two different AC's do within the same class.

 

Characters aren't supposed to be different, classes are. And the 4 mirrored classes are all different from one another. But the 2 AC's within a single class are not so horribly different and share more similarities than they do differences.

 

No one is asking to change from Trooper to Knight, just from one type of Trooper to the other. Were the AC's well and truly so very different from one another, no one would be asking for an AC change either.

 

Ranged to melee isn't a huge change. The only difference is in how close you stand to your target. You still dodge circles the same, you still go through a rotation, you still deal with boss mechanics. So saying that going from Commando to Vanguard is so very different is absolutely false. Ok, I get to pull with Vanguard instead of push with Commando...big deal. Weapons? Again, the look isn't important; the mods inside are. I can easily yank the mods from my Assault Cannon and slap them into a Blaster Rifle and not skip a beat.

[MajikMyst]

You're right, we shouldn't be able to switch classes because the classes are different. The AC's are more similar than different within the class, however. You can not compare WoW to SWTOR because WoW does not split classes up into sub-classes..

 

First.. WOW can be used because people are comparing the laws of what a class is.. There actually are no laws which renders this part of the discussion both stupid and irrelevant... As long as there is no governing body that decides what is or isn't a class.. Gaming companies like Bioware and Blizzard can decide what is or isn't a class.. Our arguing about it is both stupid and meaningless.. Bioware says that our AC is our class.. Case closed..

 

I use WOW as an example because there are a lot of people that seem to think they know rules as to what makes a class and what doesn't.. Like the 'This AC is the same as that AC..'' argument.. One of the most common and the lamest in my opinion.. In WOW, the Mage and Warlock are very much the same.. Yet they are both different classes.. The reason some people are against the usage of WOW is actually simple.. They don't want their logic used against them.. What they don't understand is that for logic to work and hold up, it has to hold up to scrutiny in other examples.. If it doesn't, then it was bad logic and a dumb idea.. The definition for a class must be the same in any MMO for it to be considered any kind of definition.. You can't give it different reasons in different games as that becomes a double standard.. But let's just say that you believe it is ok to do that as well.. Well.. The gaming companies do that now.. Perhaps it is time to deal with the rule you just agreed to..

 

This game was largely based on WOW.. It was designed to directly compete with WOW in the market place.. WOW is and always will be a perfect comparison.. If you don't like the comparison, then get some new logic..

 

This game has 16 player classes.. 8 root classes with stories.. The only reason there is 8 anything is the story.. Can you imagine how big and how much this game would cost if they made 16 stories all voiced?? That is why the classes were set up the way they are.. Just because of the stories.. It was to costly to write and voice 8 more stories.. This however doesn't change anything as far as class..

 

There is simply no reason that we need AC swapping.. People just want a Druid in this game.. A class that can do it all.. I for one, and there are many others like me, that are glad there isn't.. Bioware even stated during the beta that they didn't want a single class to be able to both tank and heal.. Many others and myself also agree with that little rule.. If people want a class that can do it all.. Then they are playing the wrong game..

Edited August 4, 2013 by MajikMyst

[LordArtemis]

I don't take much of what DE said as bible. That said, however, if I am going to be fair and take the latest comment about AC discussions from a current dev verbatim, I have to take DEs comments as verbatim as well, and I think we all should.

 

You really can't dismiss one dev comment and take the next one word for word and expect that argument or position to have a solid valid base IMO. You either take it word for word or you don't. If you dismiss DE as more opinion and speculation, you have to do the same with the latest dev comment.

 

It's really the only way to be fair about it from my perspective.

 

Also, leveling up a new character is not cheap. The cost to reroll my smuggler was substantial...but I did reroll him. The most expensive part was getting the crafting up to the right level, matched to the old character. He was cybertech.

 

It took next to no effort naturally, but basically left me almost broke. I spent some cash in the CM, bought some armor, and sold it on the GTN to get my money back. I have about half of it back at the moment.

 

Now, the one good thing about my reroll is that this time I was more efficient with leveling up my cybertech, so I actually ended up EXCEEDING my original level in crafting for about the same cost...second times the charm.

 

But WOW was it boring. Still, I'm happy with the result though a bit burned out.

 

This was a character that was level 21. It's hard for me to imagine how expensive it would be to reroll a character that is level 30, or 40 with maxed crafting...that would probably hurt. Again, the market can help out with the cost if you are willing to pony up some cash.

 

All in all I would say it was a good experience to reroll. Some bad points to it, sure, but I like how he turned out.

 

Just wanted to share my reroll experience.

[astrobearx]

I don't take much of what DE said as bible. That said, however, if I am going to be fair and take the latest comment about AC discussions from a current dev verbatim, I have to take DEs comments as verbatim as well, and I think we all should.

 

You really can't dismiss one dev comment and take the next one word for word and expect that argument or position to have a solid valid base IMO. You either take it word for word or you don't. If you dismiss DE as more opinion and speculation, you have to do the same with the latest dev comment.

 

It's really the only way to be fair about it from my perspective.

 

.

 

tbh i DO take the dev word as a i take a politician word : as just a opinion or spew that they just say. sure, the devs are the word of god in this game, but im not stupid. i read many times on this forum when they back out of what they were saying or just completely change their stance. their word (all of it) are unreliable until i see on the PTS or live server patch notes. that is me being honest.

 

to me that seems to be the problem on this thread, both side tend to cherry pick quotes that support their claim from the devs or cherry pick what is and isnt acceptable from other mmos. for example, a couple of pages back, some poster actually use the "norm of the industry" (a.k.a the mmo juggernaut W0W) as a standard of what this game should or shouldnt be about, but ironically each time a poster suggest a W0W mechanics or a "norm of the industry" QoL like dual spec, the SAME PEOPLE (or some of the same ppl on this thread) say W0W or the industry shouldnt dictate how this game should work and go "NO WAY , gfto with that idea"

 

i dont care either way tbh (if we get it , we get it, if we dont we dont) my new issue is how hypocritical alot of ppl is in this thread with what can or cant be allow via mmo industry norm

Edited August 4, 2013 by astrobearx

[LordArtemis]

tbh i DO take the dev word as a i take a politician word : as just a opinion or spew that they just say. sure, the devs are the word of god in this game, but im not stupid. i read many times on this forum when they back out of what they were saying or just completely change their stance. their word (all of it) are unreliable until i see on the PTS or live server patch notes. that is me being honest.

 

to me that seems to be the problem on this thread, both side tend to cherry pick quotes that support their claim from the devs or cherry pick what is and isnt acceptable from other mmos. for example, a couple of pages back, some poster actually use the "norm of the industry" (a.k.a the mmo juggernaut W0W) as a standard of what this game should or shouldnt be about, but ironically each time a poster suggest a W0W mechanics or a "norm of the industry" QoL like dual spec, the SAME PEOPLE (or some of the same ppl on this thread) say W0W or the industry shouldnt dictate how this game should work and go "NO WAY , gfto with that idea"

 

i dont care either way tbh (if we get it , we get it, if we dont we dont) my new issue is how hypocritical alot of ppl is in this thread with what can or cant be allow via mmo industry norm

 

Passion can do that to folks.

 

I have made a sincere attempt to look at both sides of the issue in an unbiased way, which at times has been difficult I must admit. I was disappointed to find out that they were discussing AC change recently, and even more disappointed that it seemed to be something folks still wanted, but I had to digress.

 

After all, I can't be selfish about it. Majority rules and all that. If....and only if....the majority want this it should be implemented. If not, it should not.

 

I am hoping the majority do NOT want this to come to pass. But if they do I will accept it. I must if I want to keep playing the game.

 

Some folks just have trouble accepting the fact that like it or not the decision is in Bioware's hands, and it could go either way depending on demand. They may find themselves in the minority...and that is something they will have to come to terms with.

Edited August 4, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Ratajack]

tbh i DO take the dev word as a i take a politician word : as just a opinion or spew that they just say. sure, the devs are the word of god in this game, but im not stupid. i read many times on this forum when they back out of what they were saying or just completely change their stance. their word (all of it) are unreliable until i see on the PTS or live server patch notes. that is me being honest.

 

to me that seems to be the problem on this thread, both side tend to cherry pick quotes that support their claim from the devs or cherry pick what is and isnt acceptable from other mmos. for example, a couple of pages back, some poster actually use the "norm of the industry" (a.k.a the mmo juggernaut W0W) as a standard of what this game should or shouldnt be about, but ironically each time a poster suggest a W0W mechanics or a "norm of the industry" QoL like dual spec, the SAME PEOPLE (or some of the same ppl on this thread) say W0W or the industry shouldnt dictate how this game should work and go "NO WAY , gfto with that idea"

 

i dont care either way tbh (if we get it , we get it, if we dont we dont) my new issue is how hypocritical alot of ppl is in this thread with what can or cant be allow via mmo industry norm

 

I agree that there does seem to be an awful lot of people who want to use WOW as a reason for implementing dual spec in this game, but dismissing WOW as a reason NOT to allow class changes.

 

If you care to go back and check, you will find that it was one of the pro class change advocates that first brought up the term "industry norm" saying that he saw no reason why class changes weren't an "industry norm". All the anti class change proponents did was to point out that class changes were NOT an "industry norm". I do not recall anyone mentioning WOW with the term "industry norm", although both WOW and "industry norm" have been mentioned in multiple posts.

[PeterTLJr]

I agree that there does seem to be an awful lot of people who want to use WOW as a reason for implementing dual spec in this game, but dismissing WOW as a reason NOT to allow class changes.

 

If you care to go back and check, you will find that it was one of the pro class change advocates that first brought up the term "industry norm" saying that he saw no reason why class changes weren't an "industry norm". All the anti class change proponents did was to point out that class changes were NOT an "industry norm". I do not recall anyone mentioning WOW with the term "industry norm", although both WOW and "industry norm" have been mentioned in multiple posts.

 

If your talking about class changes your on the wrong thread, this is about advance class changes.

[branmakmuffin]

It says a lot when some are still saying "We can't have AC change because WoW does not allow class change." That's like saying Kellogs can't reduce the sugar content in Frosted Flakes simply because Quaker hasn't reduced the sugar content of Cap'n Crunch.

[PeterTLJr]

Lets quit comparing irrelevant things to other irrelevant things to try making a statement. Lets focus on the subject at hand.

 

Advance Class Changes

Class Changes

 

Like it or not, they are 2 different things until further notice. There has been a post and the most recent post on this subject saying it will most likely happen in the near future, but who knows what that entirely means. There has been posts awhile back saying that ACs are your class. They have changed their minds about this subject multiple times that we cant keep going back to dev posts.

 

Regardless how you feel on this subject, we can all agree that they need to do something about this because its never going to end if they dont.

 

This game was initially built to allow AC changes as stated multiple times before launch. Deny it all you want but its true. You can say it was budget issues that kept them from separating the 2 advance classes in each class further but thats a bunch of BS.

 

Right now the best thing we can do is wait for BW to decide what they want to do about this, this thread has gone in circles over and over and its come down to "read previous posts for reasons". No one wants to talk about this anymore, they want to try converting others to come on their side, and thats not going to do anything. Both parties have given outstanding reasons and now its up to BW to make the decision.

 

I'm not saying lets quit talking about this, but please, lets stay on topic, lets argue/debate and not put others down or call them lazy or stupid or any of that other nonsense.

[Ratajack]

If your talking about class changes your on the wrong thread, this is about advance class changes.

 

Once again, you prove that you think you know more than the devs. The devs have said several times that AC's are DIFFERENT classes, therefore we are talking about class changes.

[branmakmuffin]

Once again, you prove that you think you know more than the devs. The devs have said several times that AC's are DIFFERENT classes, therefore we are talking about class changes.

You keep repeating that as if repetition alone is enough to carry the day for you.

[PeterTLJr]

Once again, you prove that you think you know more than the devs. The devs have said several times that AC's are DIFFERENT classes, therefore we are talking about class changes.

 

We all know dev posts arent permanent. As stated before, the most recent dev post was they are going to allow AC changes.