SWTOR is ultimately a failure becuase

[hages]

Hah, you obviously didn't play the game during its beta and for a month or two after. MANY reasons why this game failed early on, and certain peeps left Bioware (you can google that too). I will give you a hint.. it starts with 100 million dollars plus worth of investments being thrown at a game, only to have a specific team (you can put 2 + 2 together), re-do the art style during alpha to beta transitional phases. I was apart of the huge pre-order crowd that played the game for two months to start, and also read about how they had to delay it due to so many issues. The investors finally got sick of the delays and said release it already, and then, an un-finished game was born (legacy not in the game at launch anyone remember)??

 

My point is, this game was doomed from early on due to issues. You can just Google SWTOR Launch issues. I believe the Bioware/EA teams became too overwhelmed, and quit caring. When they saw the project was a loss, people jetted, and abandoned ship, before things really got ugly, or they were fired, you be the judge.

 

I play now because I have friends to play with and still enjoy SWTOR. But, there is still no denying the issues that occurred to start.

This is true. They released it to soon. because of the pressure. Did any of u remember the panic and hate it caused on the forum when they said to delay it. Well they should have done it even a half year extra.

But that dmg is done. I hope that the players from the beginning have found theire way back.

This game still has a great futur.

It will just be how EA will take things from here.

[kirorx]

Depends what your definition is. Failure to the players? Largely, as evidenced by 4 of every 5 subscribers/purchasers leaving it. Financially? Not sure but I doubt it - 2.58 million x $60 = $155 million + subs + CM.

 

Very true, it is alot in perspective.....

 

Financially, SWTOR has got to be pretty much a success, now.

I know i have vested quite a few too many of my RL credits for the gambling packs and of course almost all of us had to buy the epic hood down jedi knight armor.

 

A think alot of the subscribers left, but I dont know really the overall reason behind that.

True, that SWTOR is missing a lot of options and deep down i would much rather be PvPing in Restuss over huttball.

Then again its the only starwars game, so i am here for that.

 

I think an IP like starwars or startrek are going to lose some subs to the fanatasy genre, because alot of the playerbase are drawn to elvse and all that jazz.

 

I am not going to say the the load times, instancing and chat bubbles (lack of) dont contribute to a loss of subs, they probally do.

 

SWTOR is weird animal, because IMO the stuff that it does right, it does really right....but the stuff it does wrong....it does really wrong.

 

I have fun here regardless but having played that other game of the same genre, I know what could have been....I think some other people felt they were missing those things.

Edited May 28, 2013 by kirorx

[TUXs]

SWTOR is weird animal, because IMO the stuff that it does right, it does really right....but the stuff it does wrong....it does really wrong.

 

Wow, that is so true!!!!!!

[bountyagent]

I find I would of stuck with this game if leveling wasn't such a pain to me. The pvp is fun and all and some of the side quests are great its just that if you just want to play your story your screwed. You have to either play lits of pvp or play lots of side quests and neither seemed to keep my attention long enough. So I would get stuck and wouldn't be able to continue the story. You should be able to just play the story and not need side quests, pvp, mob farming, or xp boosts to get through it. I find this is where swtor failed to keep me playing.

[Tachenko_Yuri]

Bioware listened to the users instead of having a coherent vision of what they wanted to do with the old republic, that is why swtor is such a mess.

 

Go play dark orbit where a proper " toon " costs around £2000 (not even joking there) , and even more for ammo and other random pay 2 win crap, if this is so bad

[Darth_Moonshadow]

*throws glass bottle against the wall*

 

WHAT DID I SAY ABOUT NECROS?

[Andryah]

I find I would of stuck with this game if leveling wasn't such a pain to me. The pvp is fun and all and some of the side quests are great its just that if you just want to play your story your screwed. You have to either play lits of pvp or play lots of side quests and neither seemed to keep my attention long enough. So I would get stuck and wouldn't be able to continue the story. You should be able to just play the story and not need side quests, pvp, mob farming, or xp boosts to get through it. I find this is where swtor failed to keep me playing.

 

1) this MMO is among the friendliest for leveling in the genre. You can cap level off of PvE off your story and the primary side quest chain on the planets.. and even then.. you will be able to skip all the bonus series and at least two planets.

2) you could cap level a couple of characters just off the class quests + two series of double XP days.

 

Bioware did not fail, you failed yourself, IMO.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Andryah

[Taelizalde]

Bioware listened to the users instead of having a coherent vision of what they wanted to do with the old republic, that is why swtor is such a mess.

 

So what you're getting at is, it's all your fault and you're the idiot?

[Darth_Moonshadow]

So what you're getting at is, it's all your fault and you're the idiot?

 

Woah.

 

Just had a flashback to my last relationship.

[TridusSWTOR]

This game isn't a failure at all. It's very fun and I dare say it has some of the best combat play in MMO's.

 

Of course the story part of the game is wonderful as well but there is a lot of fun and engaging things to do. Right now though, I think the engine they chosen has limited them for future options, so that's very unfortunate.

[robotkar]

it is a failure. just look at the number of players in 2011 vs today

[AscendingSky]

it is a failure. just look at the number of players in 2011 vs today

 

Holy thread necromancy, Batman!

[Lionflash]

and then that failure kept on for 4 years.

[Quraswren]

Bioware listened to the users instead of having a coherent vision of what they wanted to do with the old republic, that is why swtor is such a mess.

 

Not even close but Ill add to the necro.....

 

SWTOR is a failure because BW was miscalculated.

 

They expected story to carry the game and have tried it multiple times now and story is not enough to carry swtor like they wanted. That was a mistake on BW and it turned this game into a F2P travesty faster than any other game I know of save one.

 

You can read about some of their mistakes here: http://http://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-gdc-panel-star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

bw simply didn't learn from that mistake and went back to a flawed design of story only with little to no end game as they rely on 2-5 year old content. Making that move was also never going to work because gamers historically dislike rehashed old content when they are paying the same money. It never works out for the company over all.

 

Combine that with the travesty of the game now. Another reliance on story. Little to no new end game content. Just simply terrible RNG gearing as a main focus. What little new we did get for end game is so watered down it's not entertaining or fun. The killing off of alt play after years of being pushed to make more and more alts.

 

bw turned the game into what gets the most CXP for your game time whole it pushes you to not care about anything else and any gamer that slows you down in that CXP gain is kicked to the curb for being a speed bump faster than they ever were.

 

While I have no doubt this game is still making some money. I do consider it a failure as a SW game. One of the most valued and strongest IPs ever and the best bw could do is swtor, the online gambling game where they make sure your time is lost in a an RNG fiasco just to get some end game gear and do the exact same thing you were doing just weeks ago.

 

When the doors shut and this game goes away, it will be because bw screwed it up through their own mistakes, repeating those mistakes and screw ups. Not because they listened to gamers.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Quraswren

[JediQuaker]

Look on the bright side - life is a failure because everyone dies at the end.

[Jplankey]

so...no one should ever voice Feedback? gotcha.

I like this. It seems right to me.

[Darkside]

Bioware listened to the users instead of having a coherent vision of what they wanted to do with the old republic, that is why swtor is such a mess.

 

Bioware has never listened to the players, EVER. That is why this game is a mess. All Bioware devs know how to do is ignore, break things, or nuke from orbit.

[DarthVoids]

I don't really see how this game could be a failure....has it not made more money that what was spent making it and have people enjoyed it? Yes, maybe it hasn't lived up to everyone's expectations and such...but people are still playing after 5 years....

[Ralei]

I don't really see how this game could be a failure....has it not made more money that what was spent making it and have people enjoyed it? Yes, maybe it hasn't lived up to everyone's expectations and such...but people are still playing after 5 years....

 

Yep. It was never a failure for me. People just love to talk ****.

[DarthDymond]

I don't really see how this game could be a failure....has it not made more money that what was spent making it and have people enjoyed it? Yes, maybe it hasn't lived up to everyone's expectations and such...but people are still playing after 5 years....

Some people have an "it's all about me" attitude regarding such things. It doesn't matter if an entertainment product is enjoyed by others, if they personally don't like it, then it's a failure.

 

The idea of "It's just not for me, but that's okay" is all too often a foreign concept.

Edited February 17, 2017 by DarthDymond

[t-darko]

Dead thread walking . . .

But I'll bait, anyone with a Genuine interest for this game knows that there once were a very coherent vision for this game . . .

[aerockyul]

Despite the age of the thread, I found myself agreeing slightly, not because I think BW fails by listening to player feedback specifically, but because they overreact to it (hardly the only company that does that, frankly).

 

We could all give countless examples of how this has played out through the game's history. Just for recency's sake, take 5.0's gearing. 4.0 had such a simple way to gear that everyone could understand and follow. But apparently it was TOO FAST for some people, and they wanted something to slow down all the filthy casuals from getting, like, the third best gear in the game without subjecting themselves to Operations alone. Then there was the priority "issue" where people who have no business in the harder ops but still liked doing the "easier" ops could actually get better than third-best gear and maybe, just maybe, would have the confidence to try harder content now that they would not be a drag on their team simply due to gear. I'm not sure priority ops needed to be axed altogether, when it could have been changed slightly to reduce the rewards on EV and KP but there would still be a door for people to get increasingly better gear so they would finally have a reason to get out of their EV/KP bubble.

 

So Bioware's response, as is WELL-documented in countless threads by now, was to take a simple gearing system, one that could be explained in one sentence and even a newb could understand it quickly, and change it to one of the most convoluted and mysterious and confusing and VERBOSE systems possible, and completely axe priority ops altogether. All so a minority of players could take comfort in the fact that those filthy casuals couldn't get close to fully gearing. Well, as BW has been doing throughout the game's history, they overreact and make it so it now takes FOREVER to gear your toons, even for the people that were complaining the loudest! And even better, even if you ARE really good at the game and can clear the hardest content and have the time to put into massively, endlessly grinding the same content over and over, you STILL probably won't become fully geared because RNG now holds sway over the entire population.

 

That's just one of the more recent examples of overreaction to a subset of the population that affected the entire population. There are many other examples. Instead of tweaking, they just take sledgehammers to the whole system, shoddily put the pieces back together into a new system, make more fixes that break the other fixes, but never go back to the superior system that was serving the majority of the population just fine.

 

I can't decide which is more infuriating, though...making massive, sub-bleeding changes because a small portion of the population demanded it, or making any change simply for the sake of making a change and the change is worse than anything that came before it. BW is just as guilty of that as well.

[ZeroTypeR]

I dunno If I can agree that they 'listenined to the users'. That would mean BW/EA listened to some of the users who:

 

- Didn't want lv sync

- Didn't want companion changes

- Wanted more OPs

- Wanted more Warzones

- Didn't want the 4.0 and 5.0 stories

- Wanted all the original companions back

- Didn't like bolstering in Flashpoint's

- Wanted the original Flashpoint lv's in veteran (tactical mode)

- Didn't like uprisings

- Didn't want expertise removed

- Didn't want pvp gear removed

- Didn't want GC/Rng

- Wanted the original enemy (boss) lv's for vanilla stories

- Wanted more CXP for solo content

- Wanted more unassembled piece drops from warzones (<<<<they actually listemed here) and drops to happen for solo content

 

Just to name a few that I've seen and/or posted about, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Edited February 17, 2017 by ZeroTypeR

[aerockyul]

I dunno If I can agree that they 'listenined to the users'. That would mean BW/EA listened to some of the users who:

 

- Didn't want lv sync

- Didn't want companion changes

- Wanted more OPs

- Wanted more Warzones

- Didn't want the 4.0 and 5.0 stories

- Wanted all the original companions back

- Didn't like bolstering in Flashpoint's

- Wanted the original Flashpoint lv's in veteran (tactical mode)

- Didn't like uprisings

- Didn't want expertise removed

- Didn't want pvp gear removed

- Didn't want GC/Rng

- Wanted the original enemy (boss) lv's for vanilla stories

- Wanted more CXP for solo content

- Wanted more unassembled piece drops from warzones (<<<<they actually listemed here) and drops to happen for solo content

 

Just to name a few that I've seen and/or posted about, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

A large number of those could be traced to complaints from players and BW trying to appease them, regardless of how large of a contingent those players represented. And those complaints aren't always from the usual suspects either. Another recent example (mind-boggling):

 

Shae Vizla is given to us...unbeknownst to the devs, or perhaps in a show of goodwill by them, we're able to customize her look!! We also get a customizable Master Ranos about the same time! They're finally listening, right?

AND YET...some people pointed it out in the forums and people brought it to BW's attention that this was happening through bug reports, like this was something worthy of bug reporting, and BW actually answered quickly that this was a bug and would be rectified back to the same stupid non-customizable comp system since 4.0.

Considering some of the bugs that are still in this game from years and years of reporting, it's amazing how fast THIS "bug" gets "fixed" in the very next patch.

 

The people that actually put this into a bug report should have their reporting rights taken away

 

Or we could talk about the slot machine. Now I never participated in it when it first came out, but to see conversations in game and in the forums, I think the gist of it was people were getting too many rewards too fast. How dare they give out so many rewards to so many people who are paying to play the game?! But some people complained, and they nerfed the ever living **** out of it and now most of the population will never get the achievements and rewards from these machines.

 

Or the constant overtuning/nerfing that goes on with all PvE content, solo- or group-oriented. "This non-NiM content is too easy for us NiM raiders" BW: "Okay, we'll make it virtually impossible for anyone to do it"

And the just-as-annoying inverse "This hard content is too hard" BW: "Okay, we'll make it so easy your level 1 comp can do it alone while you go make yourself a snack"

 

Or class "balancing." I don't think much needs to be said about this, but it's the same. Some classes are either op beyond belief or nerfed to the strength of a wet noodle based on the complaints from people that don't feel they are globalling people fast enough (and the complaints from the people being globalled)

 

It's incredibly confusing...BW is actually listening to the players, but their solutions are never minor and they are almost always way too far down on the other end of the spectrum.

[t-darko]

I dunno If I can agree that they 'listenined to the users'. That would mean BW/EA listened to some of the users who:

 

- Didn't want lv sync

- Didn't want companion changes

- Wanted more OPs

- Wanted more Warzones

- Didn't want the 4.0 and 5.0 stories

- Wanted all the original companions back

- Didn't like bolstering in Flashpoint's

- Wanted the original Flashpoint lv's in veteran (tactical mode)

- Didn't like uprisings

- Didn't want expertise removed

- Didn't want pvp gear removed

- Didn't want GC/Rng

- Wanted the original enemy (boss) lv's for vanilla stories

- Wanted more CXP for solo content

- Wanted more unassembled piece drops from warzones (<<<<they actually listemed here) and drops to happen for solo content

 

Just to name a few that I've seen and/or posted about, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Nothing that happened after RotHC has anything to do with the Vision for this game; This was never intended to be a WoW game in a Star Wars skin, but coming on to this game that was really what all those initial and continual critics want; WoW in a Star Wars skin