BioWare says no more open world PvP in the making ever !!

[chriscruiz]

Just place a main hub for each faction on the same planet and give people a reason to sit there instead of on the fleet. There will be a lot more world pvp!

[Andryah]

There is no force in the world that can stop the wailing and gnashing of teeth. People will threaten to quit over this and be back a month later with a new gripe.

 

I don't know some of these guys get through the day.

 

Heh... /agree with you on that.

[Jandi]

Unless you have a complex and intricate system in place with planetary control and carefully placed and balanced forts to fight over world PvP is nothing but a zergfest coupled with zerg guilds deciding how to abuse the system the best.

 

BioWare knows this from WAR and other PvP focused games. It's not worth the effort as the Gree event has shown that no fights erupt at all, only 4 man teams rolling over people trying to solo.

 

Random small scale PvP is as much PvP as you hitting your dummy on your ship. I have *never* been attacked by anyone my own level unless I've been fighting elites, ever. Do you know why? Because every single world PvP fan is a spineless coward and an e-bully, looking for someone who cannot fight back. Yes, I'm talking to you, you're all the same. People who get their jollies off from killing those who cannot fight back at all. If there is even a remote chance you *might* lose, you drive past 10 times out of 10.

 

Do not pretend like you want to fight, you don't. A fight presupposes a struggle, which you never want to partake in. You just want to feel better about yourself for "winning" against those at a severe disadvantage. What you want is to push down someone in a wheelchair down a staircase and tell yourself you're an MMA fighter.

 

I'm not mad at people ganking, I rolled on a PvP server for a reason. I'm laughing at you. I logged in every day in SWG on my Knight back when they were perma overt without ever abusing gtef and loved it. Do you know how many times I died to a single enemy? 0. Not another Jedi nor a BH ever killed me alone, ever, not did I ever run. In that game death as a Jedi meant something as well.

 

If you want PvP so badly, go play Darkfall. Oh, wait, you would be destroyed in that game.

[Turshek]

There is no system where lands or bases change hands in this game. Open world PvP is already...pointless. The PvP in this game was originally WZ based and will stay WZ based (minus the illum stuff which was pulled shortly after launch). So your point doesn't really mean much because the PvP was already...pointless. It's just PvP for the fun of PvP.

 

Thats the game design. Bioware is basically saying "we will build more WZs and events like Gree but you aren't going to see any more open world PvP setups".

 

That's the same things as a car company saying our cars come in black, white and red. If you want a different color you can email us all you want but we aren't making it.

 

I know that sucks for some people but for bioware its an ROI and engine issue. It simply not worth the cost and I agree with them.

 

I like instance PvP and I could care less about open world Zerg fests.

 

I completely disagree that it's not worth the cost.

 

The thing is in every MMO there's a part of the community that is waiting for changes, that is waiting for new way to play. Here we are talking about owPvP but it's easy to find other things reading the forums, housing, SSSP, pazaak, swoop racing.... If you don't satisfy them, once they finished the content they wanted to do or are bored of it, they leave.

 

MMOs are supposed to grow, features are supposed to get added over time. With a company so secretive we don't know what's in the next update 3 weeks before it's released, with no roadmap for the features to come in the next months and a statement like that, they are just removing any hope left in a part of their playerbase because a part of the game will not grow and won't change.

 

What does it mean for me ? It's not a threat, just simple facts: the amount of characters I want to level is limited, the things I want to do are limited. The only unlimited part for me is warzones but I perfectly know that their own limits, their lack of consequences makes me bored of them after a while. Once I leveled my chars, the next time I will get bored of warzones after some long sessions, I will find my fun elsewhere.

[FabulousDoctor]

Open World PvP in MMOs suck. Get over it. Open world PVP is removed from nearly every MMO because it boils down to gank squads not allowing other people to play a game. Warhammer Online's 'Open World' PVP was dead for most of its life, almost all PVP being in the PVP mission zones. WoW removed open world PVP because it was all gankers killing lowbies. Elder Scrolls Online is kicking all 'open world' PVP to a special area (Cyrodil) where it will be a giant Warzone match constantly.

 

There is no such thing as a game with good open world PVP - look at the few that have it.

 

Eve - Griefers everywhere. Battles are zerg matches.

 

Age of Wushu - Griefers everywhere. Battles are zerg matches.

 

Warhammer Online - No one participates in World PVP. Game's dead.

 

Aion - Less griefers, everything is zerg elitists. Game's dying.

 

Darkfall - Broken game, sucks. Griefers. No zergging (things hit allies) Game's dead.

 

Wizardy Online - Griefers, all attacks hit allies at all times. Game's dead.

[MajikMyst]

There is a difference between open world pvp, and griefing and people mistake the two. I don't think any of us want to go back to the dark ages of mmo's where no where was safe, permadeath was real and very scary, and the emptiness of losing a high level character and all of his gear forever.

 

You would be surprised how many people thought it was their right to go and grief lowbies.. The idea was that because they were on a PVP server, that automatically gave someone permission to camp their corpse..

 

It really doesn't matter what you think open world PVP is.. As long as some people have the view above, open world PVP will always be a bad thing to any MMO..

 

Now.. I am all for structured open world PVP.. Put some big boss inside the Senate tower on Curoscant, and let the imp players try and attack it.. Have both NPC guards and players act as defenders.. Do the same for Dromund Kaas for the republic players..

 

As I said in my other post.. We had these discussions in the beta.. We had 2 beta servers at one point.. Everyone was on the PVE server to avoid the ganking.. I can remember the threads of people begging people in the beta forums to play on the PVP server.. Almost everyone was on the PVE server..

 

Don't get me wrong.. If PVP can be an honorable experience and the community can policed itself against the griefers.. I am all for open world PVP.. Otherwise.. Things should stay as they are..

Edited May 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[ShatteredVision]

Open world pvp is what you make it. Period. What most of you want, is instanced "world" pvp. Genuine world pvp only requires that you be able to kill the other faction and get to the same places they are to do so. If you're not having fun world pvping, it's because you don't have a clue what world pvp is.

 

Could it be better? Sure, I guess. Quests could crossover more between factions, but other than that, it's up to you to handle. I'm not a fanboi by any stretch, and usually am complaining about eaware, but the sad fact is, most of you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You want wintergrasp wow hero nonsense. World pvp happens in the world. Not in some instanced area on the side.

 

My fondest pvp memories to this day were from my Asheron's Call days. I got raped left and right, people took my stuff, and it was a blast. Why? Because going into a town to sell trash became this huge event where you had to question whether you'd make it out alive, with any of your hand-me-down gear intact and unlooted by the dude who is camping you until you swear allegiance to him. That's world pvp. You didn't need a reason, you just did it because you're a boss and you thrive on talking mess to people after you slaughter them. Casuals ruined pvp for nearly every game since those first mmo's... particularly world pvp. Now, we have a generation of kids running around claiming they don't get some bastardized form of pvp that they wrongly refer to as "world pvp." They should call it what it really is, wow world pvp.

 

If you want real world pvp, follow the trail of dead jedis to me.

[WookieIsshe]

Lol it can barely handle 8v8 combat. It took a year of tweaking to get 16 player WZ to run DECENT.

 

I call BS on this. I have never had a problem with PvP with the warzone and 8 on 8 or even Ilum when we had open world pvp in that huge area. While some of you did have problems I would say it was more of a computer configuration was more of the problem then the game engine itself.

 

Fact is PvP is not as popular as some of you believe it to be. I have played in tons of MMO's over the course of the past 20 years and I can state for a fact that PvP was never as popular as some of you seem to think it was.

[ShatteredVision]

You would be surprised how many people thought it was their right to go and grief lowbies.. The idea was that because they were on a PVP server, that automatically gave someone permission to camp their corpse..

 

It really doesn't matter what you think open world PVP is.. As long as some people have the view above, open world PVP will always be a bad thing to any MMO..

 

Now.. I am all for structured open world PVP.. Put some big boss inside the Senate tower on Curoscant, and let the imp players try and attack it.. Have both NPC guards and players act as defenders.. Do the same for Dromund Kaas for the republic players..

 

As I said in my other post.. We had these discussions in the beta.. We had 2 beta servers at one point.. Everyone was on the PVE server to avoid the ganking.. I can remember the threads of people begging people in the beta forums to play on the PVP server.. Almost everyone was on the PVE server..

 

Don't get me wrong.. If PVP can be an honorable experience and the community can policed itself against the griefers.. I am all for open world PVP.. Otherwise.. Things should stay as they are..

 

There is and never will be any such thing as griefing on a pvp server. Pvp used to be more honorable, but that was because of players. It's still ALL pvp. Whether some guys kills you once or ten times. Is he a jerk? Probably. But, griefing is an imaginary concept made up by pvers. Back in the day it was a lot more politically charged, and a lot more fun. If you could kill anyone at any time, you had to know who your guild was cool with or not, who to kill on sight, who to help or jump in against. Again, casuals ruined that aspect. Then some gaming executive decided that there should be concrete factions, and we have the death of any meaningful pvp.

[mandoforlife]

There is and never will be any such thing as griefing on a pvp server. Pvp used to be more honorable, but that was because of players. It's still ALL pvp. Whether some guys kills you once or ten times. Is he a jerk? Probably. But, griefing is an imaginary concept made up by pvers. Back in the day it was a lot more politically charged, and a lot more fun. If you could kill anyone at any time, you had to know who your guild was cool with or not, who to kill on sight, who to help or jump in against. Again, casuals ruined that aspect. Then some gaming executive decided that there should be concrete factions, and we have the death of any meaningful pvp.

 

*sniffles* rest in peace meaningful PvP

[Turshek]

It always makes me laugh seeing people saying owPvP is bad or sucks in MMOs using past MMOs as "proof".

 

The problem isn't owPvP in general, it's how it's implemented in thoses MMOs ie the inability of developers to look at past games, keep the good ideas, remove the bad ones, adding rules to limit bad behaviors...

 

The problem with owPvP, whatever flavor, is devs making bad design decisions and not implementing protection against behaviours that go against their designs. owPvP is, like in TOR, an afterthought and thus they never really thought of owPvP combined with their combat system, with their worlds design, with the way players travel or interact.

 

It's like saying dye systems suck in all MMOs because in TOR and in this or that game they made implementations which you think suck. Devs should have clear goals they want to achieve, which btw should be communicated so they don't get the "wrong" audience expected things they won't get, and then really go through all the consequences and problems with their intents. If they do half of the job, we get broken owPvP.

[SithKoriandr]

Dont be surprised at the developers. All they can do is nickle and dime the community if they want to keep their jobs. EA tells them too milk us and they do it. I bet they are probably ashamed they just nod and do what their masters say unlike other games where the developer teams have a bit of creative control.

 

I doubt many are as ashamed as you might think

[Aramyth]

Never say never. Even FFXI, which is a PvE 'only' game, is going to be adding some PvP to their game with Player vs Monster Player (PvMP) and by the sounds of it, it will be open world.

 

Whether the PvE players or Bioware like it or not, there is a PvP community in SWTOR and they have been ignored since the addition of Ancient Hypergate and to some extent the Gree event. Ranked Warzone Season 1 was promised roughly a year ago, it was something they had been working on and has been back burner-ed for months. Why? Why not give an update on it?

 

When we say we want "open world pvp", we don't mean we just want the ability to kill other players out in the open world because that's lame. As you know that's already in the game, what we really want is something we can sink our teeth into. Valor Ranks that MEAN something, maybe put an icon to show rank near the characters portrait so others can see it, when you kill players in open world give us Valor, give us a few Commendations, harder gear progression, leaderboards, MORE Warzones and MORE maps of ALL Warzone types. We want objectives we can hold and fight over, which can be flipped from Republic controlled or Imperial controlled. In the open world we don't want "oh I'm level 55, I'm going to go kill level 20's!" like most PvEers think we do. That's just silly because if people want to do that (if you're on a PvP server or flagged on a PvE one), they already can in this game, so I don't see why PvEers are so afraid of that.

 

We also need Bolster removed from 55 Warzones and a better solution than the Resolve bar.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Aramyth

[X-Funk]

If there was a serious inquiry into what happened to the 300 million that went into development criminal charges would result.

They must have had a good time at the companies expense.

It's the only explanation when a guy like Chris Roberts can do Star Citizen for 20-30 million and this gang of hired hands can't get even the basic copy paste combat from WoW to work properly.

 

The first time I quit this game I logged out with 2 months on my sub this time I will log out with 1 month left you couldn't pay me to play this again.

 

lolol

[hages]

The irony is that it is the PVE crowd, not the PVP crowd, that wants to be the "special snowflake". God forbid someone else can complete the hardest raid in the game and have the same gear, oh lordy lordy. On top of that, PVE is also where most of class balancing comes into play. You never see PVP players whining about a .00071% dps differential on a spreadsheet. If you don't like PVP, fine, but don't contribute to a PVP thread if you don't.

This is the most stupid thing i ever heard.

So far almost all the class changes are because of pvp. All the nerves are bc of pvp.

So far as i can tell nobody cares if one class does more dps in pve.We want to kill those bosses. So every + dps is good.

And get youre facts right by looking in the pvp thread....more wining then something else about classes, wz....

So do not give me that bull...about pvers whining...

Ohh noes that obe is overpowerd. that class sucks. Play as a team and pick the right skills and you will see that this game is not so bad balanced afther all.

Edited May 23, 2013 by hages

[MeisterBabylon]

You'd be surprised how many devs CAN'T do open world pvp than CAN.

 

And then there are the player votes: PVE servers are less of a ghost town than PVP.

 

I'd say this is just a self-fulfilling prophecy afflicting any theme-park MMO that wasn't designed from the ground up to be a pvp machine.

[xxIncubixx]

ESO is looking fantastic in the latest leaked beta vid, not the pre-pre-alpha footage that looked bad. And whether or not "they are consoles nor MMO's" is a moot point, since they will STILL pull away gamers who will likely never return. SWTOR needs to bring out the big guns to start and to end the summer, or else they will continue losing subs. SSSP (WITH PVP IN IT) new wz's, new raids, and alot of REAL content is needed. GTA5, ESO, EQN, and new consoles will pull people away. Everyone who has played SWTOR since launch saw a friend leave for d3, or for ME3, gw2, pandaland, etc... and they never return. It is the proverbial death by a thousand cuts. SWTOR needs to work double or triple hours around the office and deliver REAL content, soon.

 

what do u mean looking fantastic, the beta leaked footage looks like another WoW-clone... with Rift elements and the combat system ripped off guild wars 2 (which is crap). And lets be honest here The elder scrolls lore is not that interesting, for a MMO i mean, it looks like another random MMO with a fantasy setting.

Edited May 23, 2013 by xxIncubixx

[Screaming_Ziva]

It says PVP for the quest so it is not pve contend. and seriously theire are tons of quest to do. why are u complaining like a child about 2 damm quests.

HK-51 ... not a PvP quest.

Seeker Droid ... not a PvP quest.

Macrobinoculars ... not a PvP quest.

 

Yet all of these are in a PvP area.

[TheBBP]

HK-51 ... not a PvP quest.

Seeker Droid ... not a PvP quest.

Macrobinoculars ... not a PvP quest.

 

Yet all of these are in a PvP area.

 

I do not like that either.

[Arkerus]

I completely disagree that it's not worth the cost.

 

The thing is in every MMO there's a part of the community that is waiting for changes, that is waiting for new way to play. Here we are talking about owPvP but it's easy to find other things reading the forums, housing, SSSP, pazaak, swoop racing.... If you don't satisfy them, once they finished the content they wanted to do or are bored of it, they leave.

 

MMOs are supposed to grow, features are supposed to get added over time. With a company so secretive we don't know what's in the next update 3 weeks before it's released, with no roadmap for the features to come in the next months and a statement like that, they are just removing any hope left in a part of their playerbase because a part of the game will not grow and won't change.

 

What does it mean for me ? It's not a threat, just simple facts: the amount of characters I want to level is limited, the things I want to do are limited. The only unlimited part for me is warzones but I perfectly know that their own limits, their lack of consequences makes me bored of them after a while. Once I leveled my chars, the next time I will get bored of warzones after some long sessions, I will find my fun elsewhere.

 

It doesn't matter if you disagree. It's not coming. Disagree all you want but the facts are its not happening.

 

It will cost them way too much money for too little return.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Arkerus

[Quraswren]

HK-51 ... not a PvP quest.

Seeker Droid ... not a PvP quest.

Macrobinoculars ... not a PvP quest.

 

Yet all of these are in a PvP area.

 

Thats a particular bit of game development/design I loathe. I've yet to enjoy it in all my years of gaming.

[TUXs]

what do u mean looking fantastic, the beta leaked footage looks like another WoW-clone... with Rift elements and the combat system ripped off guild wars 2 (which is crap). And lets be honest here The elder scrolls lore is not that interesting, for a MMO i mean, it looks like another random MMO with a fantasy setting.

 

I gotta agree...the MMO genre doesn't need ANOTHER flipping sword and elf game.

[Stib_]

HK-51 ... not a PvP quest.

Seeker Droid ... not a PvP quest.

Macrobinoculars ... not a PvP quest.

 

Yet all of these are in a PvP area.

 

Agreed, and almost the same is with the Gree so called pvp quests. So, as i said many times, its a huge design failure on BioWares side, in favor of the gankers and griefers.

 

It feels like the police would support the maffia. Very wrong...

[seektravota]

cuz bioware only has 4 employees left. everyone else lost their job.

the only 4 employees are: janitor, caterer, demolisher, driver.

[zzoorrzz]

HK-51 ... not a PvP quest.

Seeker Droid ... not a PvP quest.

Macrobinoculars ... not a PvP quest.

 

Yet all of these are in a PvP area.

 

since they are in pvp area, you cant call them PvE quests either.

 

And honestly, I did both macro and seeker quests and never ever happened anything to me because 1) you dont have to spend lot of time out there, 2) its on the leveling planets where is very few people who can threaten you.

 

I didnt do HK quest yet, but I guess it will be similar.