For seasoned players grown disaffected: An invitation to quit.

[Spatology]

Flip the scripts. Apparently you people aren't cut out to do flashpoints or whatever made you but hurt about the subject without the "space bar commandos" help to achieve anything in this game. You aren't fun to play with. Please go away.

 

No offense.

[Spatology]

If you don't like to be good at the things you do, why do anything at all?

[CosmicKat]

Why are you still paying for something you clearly dislike so much?

 

First off, even if the statement were true (which it is not), why would you care? People who pay money to play the game benefit anyone who loves/likes/enjoys/tolerates the game.

 

Secondly, the OP's assertion is ludicrous. Blaming the customers is just as ludicrous now as it was when this same excuse was trotted out as the reason for the initial loss of vast amounts of subscribers.

[DAMossimo]

First off, even if the statement were true (which it is not), why would you care? People who pay money to play the game benefit anyone who loves/likes/enjoys/tolerates the game.

 

Secondly, the OP's assertion is ludicrous. Blaming the customers is just as ludicrous now as it was when this same excuse was trotted out as the reason for the initial loss of vast amounts of subscribers.

 

This ^

 

And 6 months from now, these very same people chastizing us "seasoned players" will be posting hate threads of their own.

 

True story. Seen it happen over and over.

[Cleet_Xia]

Complaining about someone's noobness isn't any better than someone complaining about impatient 7334 players.

 

I get where the OP is coming from... but I can also understand how frustrating it is to wait on a total noob.

 

Thing is it's the experienced players, in their rare moments of patient bliss that help those noobs really get good.

 

And once all the older players are gone - and the average age is less than 6 months....they'll nerf the content SO hard, this game will never be entertaining again.

[CosmicKat]

Oh yes, there is quite a bit of sense in it. Sadly, it's not so common. I suspect it touches a little too close to home for you. All the OP is stating is that people who are so burnt out on the game that they feel the need to be negative and try and bully others to speed through the content should just move on.

 

Nothing ranting about saying that people who no longer like a product should stop using it.

 

"Seasoned MMO players" are not the players trying to speed through the game. Anyone with any previous MMO experience knows that the only way NOT to speed through the game is to intentionally slow it down. The normal gameplay is hyper accelerated and simple because they designed it to appeal to ADHD players accustomed to console games. Those are the players who space bar. Those are the customers who believe that you are a n00b for not having the uberest of uber gear. Those are the players who can't understand that fun always trumps expediency. The people the OP are blaming are the exact people the game is designed for, at the expense of seasoned MMO players.

 

If you want to blame anyone, blame Bioware for making an MMO for a non-traditional MMO/RPG audience. Because A) that design philosophy flopped, and B) the non-traditional MMO/RPG players are the exact people who are doing the things you ascribe to seasoned MMO players.

[Arkerus]

First off, even if the statement were true (which it is not), why would you care? People who pay money to play the game benefit anyone who loves/likes/enjoys/tolerates the game.

 

Secondly, the OP's assertion is ludicrous. Blaming the customers is just as ludicrous now as it was when this same excuse was trotted out as the reason for the initial loss of vast amounts of subscribers.

 

No one is blaming the customer. I tell idiots who say they hate the game and threaten to quit every day to put up or shut up.

 

No one is threatened by "quitting" threats.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Arkerus

[WarGame]

I agree with some of what you say. But honestly if you've already seen the dialogue and everyone else in the group wants to space bar, how are you the sort people would want to run with?

[LordArtemis]

This seems to have struck a cord with a few people, and rubbed a few people the wrong way.

 

Everyone has a right to play as they wish, within game rules naturally. After all, that's why we play...to entertain ourselves. Different strokes for different folks, so to speak.

[Spatology]

The op is a 64 year old librarian with a 14 year old grandson who introduced him to the game. Is he the target audience here? (I'm not hating, but noting facts)

 

I realize that these are likely the people who made the CM such a big hit, but, is this really the future of swtor?

Edited May 22, 2013 by Spatology

[turjake]

The op is a 64 year old librarian with a 14 year old grandson who introduced him to the game. Is he the target audience here? (I'm not hating, but noting facts)

 

I realize that these are likely the people who made the CM such a big hit, but, is this really the future of swtor?

 

Does it matter? The op plays the game and obviously can observe the phenomenons in the playerbase. What loads of people seem to forget is that the first player generation started playing with 8-bit computers and consoles quite a long ago. Loads of them are still playing games and wont stop as long as they can hold the keyboard or controller. They are over 40 now. Playing is not the hobby for just kids or teenagers.

[CosmicKat]

The op is a 64 year old librarian with a 14 year old grandson who introduced him to the game. Is he the target audience here? (I'm not hating, but noting facts)

 

I realize that these are likely the people who made the CM such a big hit, but, is this really the future of swtor?

 

If you think older gamers are the ones who want simple, challenge-free gaming.... well, you have never met any 30+ gamers.

[Przemo_No]

Just my 2 cents:

I really find the original post very well written.

I find the some comments (like the “omg, so much text” ) disgraceful. To me it means someone cannot even READ. Or does not have that minimum patience. Indeed, twitter would be better option for them. Or actually pictograms. But then WHY to spend their time on the forums, where things are WRITTEN?

 

Secondly, some comments make sense especially when stating that the veteran players are those who help others with gameplay and tactics or mechanics. True. But let me tell you those are RARELY screaming on others or make other nasty actions that could degrade others’ experience. Those embrace their mentor roles and enjoy it, otherwise I would not see the point of doing mentoring.

 

Also those long time “disciples” of SWTOR – those who had SO MANY expectations that were so much NOT MET. Those who, allegedly, are complaining so much on the forums, because of their broken ”feelings”.

 

Uh, oh.. .if someone/something breaks my feelings or disappoints me totally, I just go away, not saying anything. Why even bother, if it’s so disappointing?

 

Anyway, I am the player who likes to enjoy the content and explore it to the max. I take my time with everything, there’s no rush – for me this game (and others too) are designed to provide entertainment, not frustration. I do not live by this – it is my escape pod from reality. And when the escape pod becomes your reality then you need to seek some help, because it is not the way it should be.

 

Again, I was also one of the long term awaiters for this game, and the fact they announced it to be MMO was such a disappointment to me. I did not play any MMO before because all “2nd hand experience” told me that it is a type of game where you are dependent on others and you cannot do things YOUR WAY.

 

But I gave it a chance and… well, it’s almost 1,5 years while I am playing this and enjoying. And I am far from seeing an end. I found a very nice guild, I am using GF (for ANY purpose, not only for speed FP runs), I play both PVP and PVE, do events, help others...

 

I even tried to compare SWTOR with other MMO games, and – there’s NO better made game of this genre. But some people are never satisfied and so much selfish.

 

All the screams: I want this, no, I do not want that! Shame, disgrace, subbing, unsubbing, nerf this, buff that, balance, stance, pwned, roflstomped, God knows what else… ooh people, why don’t you just either accept the product as it is or leave???

Edited May 22, 2013 by Przemo_No
spaces

[Master-Nala]

First off, even if the statement were true (which it is not), why would you care?

 

Curiosity. I've always wondered why people pay to be unhappy. It's possible you are a masochist. Perhaps you're a troll. Maybe you're just insane. Just my human need to categorize odd behavior.

 

People who pay money to play the game benefit anyone who loves/likes/enjoys/tolerates the game.

 

To a point that's true. But at a certain point, your $15 a month isn't worth the disruption a person causes to others. For example, exploiters aren't allowed to do their thing and hide behind their sub fee. People who are rude, unhappy and impatient, IMO are more trouble than they are worth in game. Thankfully, they are more rare that is let on here.

 

Secondly, the OP's assertion is ludicrous. Blaming the customers is just as ludicrous now as it was when this same excuse was trotted out as the reason for the initial loss of vast amounts of subscribers.

 

No, it's not. People who are unhappy should leave. That's not blaming them for anything other than their own unhappiness. Many people like the game and are happy with it. The plethora of negative Nancy players in the game and on the forums most certainly do not benefit anyone.

 

I practice what I preach. For example, I am very disappointed in DCUO. SOE basically screws that game up worse with every patch as far as I can see. That game was a TRUE failure (30K subs or less prior to F2P). Even many of its initial fanboys have given up. But heck, I just stopped playing. Don't post on their forums. No point in it. If I did post there my posts would look just like yours. Tinged with venom at all the things I think they did wrong. That's not productive so I don't bother.

 

Yes, you have the right (since Bioware gives it to you) to come to the forums and complain to your hearts content about all the real and imagined failings of SWTOR. But if you see no redeeming qualities, and just about every post of yours is negative, then why you stay is a great mystery to me.

[Eillack]

The Tl;DR translation

 

If you are so angry with the game that you take it out on other players, maybe you should find a new game.

 

 

/signed

 

And many have lol.

[TheNahash]

And many have lol.

 

Good for them. As a gamer myself, I hope they've found a game that they enjoy.

 

One simple thing that has been stated over and over again but people seem so quick to dismiss is that this is a video game.

 

It won't bring world peace or feed the poor. It's pure entertainment. And I can assure you that if the game dies, the world will be exactly the same.

 

As a gamer, I know how frustrating it can be to really WANT to like a game but not being able to. It has happened to me many times throughout the years both with single player games (like Gothic 3) and MMOs (Lotro, WOW). It's especially frustrating with MMOs because if your friends like it and you don't you either have to suck it up and continue playing just to be with them or quit. And no matter how hard I tried I never enjoyed WoW.

 

But I didn't cry about the things I hated on their forum.

I simply left because I was not having fun. It wasn't my job and my life didn't depend on it, so why should I've bothered more?

 

Many people on this forum make the mistake of thinking that just because they don't enjoy something, no one else should. No matter how much you love the world a game takes place in, there is simply no rational reason to stay (and pay) if you don't enjoy the game itself or demand that everything should be done the way you think it should.

 

So, there are two options:

You stay, criticize the things that should be changed and accept the fact that the game is the way it is OR if you find that the game itself or the direction it's going is disappointing you leave and make the ones responsible for those decisions "feel it" by losing your money.

 

And, I'm sorry, but "I was promised X" is not a legitimate argument.

You might've been. The truth is you didn't get it. The way you react to being lied to by a company (QQ or make them miss your money) will eventually shape the way companies treat us. And, to be honest, I'm really surprised to see people actually trusting companies enough to take them at their word. You should only trust what you see and your decisions should be made on the facts you have at hand NOW, not the things you are promised will happen "Soon" or "sometime in the future".

 

PS: This is not a personal attack. Just my two cents about the whole thing.

Edited May 22, 2013 by TheNahash

[AlaricSevGirl]

If you think older gamers are the ones who want simple, challenge-free gaming.... well, you have never met any 30+ gamers.

 

Exactly, I'm in the +30 crowd and I'm getting my guildmates geared up for OPs and HMs. We love a challenge and want more PvE content and in reality, only 2 of my guild PvP, one is hardcore and the other is casual. The rest of us are HMs, FPs and OPs. So no, a simple, challenge free game is not something we want to see.

 

I also know a guy in game who raids several times a week. He's, oh my, +30.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

What you seem to be ignoring is how much these players also add to the game.

 

While you're content watching your little videos in your FP and leveling your alt a level a week, these "hardcore" players are blasting through the Ops, crafting the new items, flooding the GTN with new resources, posting video walkthroughs of different tasks, finding the impossible to reach +10 datacron on Makeb, learning new recipes from Rep vendors, running the newest Ops, teaching other groups how to run the newest Ops so that they may one day take you.

 

Where you only see negatives, I see a group of players who contribute a LOT more than they ask for in return.

 

/signed

 

Having a hardcore group of players is the lifeblood of an MMO. If everyone got to endgame and quit after they saw the content this game would have never made it to Makeb and would probably be F2P only with no more content ever by now.

[Icebergy]

Flip the scripts. Apparently you people aren't cut out to do flashpoints or whatever made you but hurt about the subject without the "space bar commandos" help to achieve anything in this game. You aren't fun to play with. Please go away.

 

No offense.

 

This.

 

Stop being a baddy, OP. You say we are ruining your fun, we say you are ruining our fun. So maybe take 10 mins to learn which buttons to press and if you are that concerned with watching the movies, watch them on youtube when you aren't selfishly wasting three other people's time.

 

You should probably just quit the game since you aren't very good at it.

 

No offense though.

 

(Note this post does not actually represent my opinion, I am merely pointing out how ridiculously selfish the OP is.)

[asbalana]

Good post OP.

 

I think that the main problem is a little different than discussed to this point. That is that the game (like most mmos) is based on the carrot on a stick concept. To progress, a player is required to run the same content over and over and over again. Except for class story, altaholics play the same narrow content each time through.

 

At some point farming flashpoints or ops or running dailies for the hundreth time, turns your brain to mush. You can do them in your sleep while reciting the dialogue between snores. After you level an alt or two, you can recite the dalogue in the cut screens from memory. Some cut sceens, like your ship landing or taking off, have been seen hundreds (thousands?) of times.

 

Yet this game is story (supposedly) driven.

 

What ends up happening at times is that bored players who are seeking a drop or credits or commendations is paired with newer players who are experiencing new story. Neither are at fault and neither are wrong. They are just in different places. This is not an issue of people rushing through content and then dumping on noobs. Indeed, the newer players who now want to see the content will soon be yelling spacebar spacebar. It is a facet of modern mmo game design which is tuned to require players to run and rerun the same content with no variation until their boredom and frustration causes their brains to explode.

[TUXs]

Yet this game is story (supposedly) driven.

(this isn't aimed at you specifically, I'm just sick of seeing that bantered about)

 

What exactly do people mean by this?

 

What is "story driven"?

 

You mean, there's a story while you level? That can be found in any other MMO as well (mostly). Or do you mean all of this games content is just meant to tell a story? If that's the case, why would there be a gear grind? I mean, you'd be done once you finished the "story" right?

 

My point is...that's a STUPID thing to say. Almost EVERY game, even Call of Duty, has a flipping "story". Just because Bioware did better than other games with their stories, doesn't make this MMO somehow unique in what players want to do at 50/55. Repeatable dungeons aren't some epic form of "story telling"...their end game content...nothing more.

 

This game is no more story driven than Halo is...hell, Halo is even MORE story driven since the outcome is 100% per-determined.

[CosmicKat]

Curiosity. I've always wondered why people pay to be unhappy. It's possible you are a masochist. Perhaps you're a troll. Maybe you're just insane. Just my human need to categorize odd behavior.

 

To a point that's true. But at a certain point, your $15 a month isn't worth the disruption a person causes to others. For example, exploiters aren't allowed to do their thing and hide behind their sub fee. People who are rude, unhappy and impatient, IMO are more trouble than they are worth in game. Thankfully, they are more rare that is let on here.

 

No, it's not. People who are unhappy should leave. That's not blaming them for anything other than their own unhappiness. Many people like the game and are happy with it. The plethora of negative Nancy players in the game and on the forums most certainly do not benefit anyone.

 

I practice what I preach. For example, I am very disappointed in DCUO. SOE basically screws that game up worse with every patch as far as I can see. That game was a TRUE failure (30K subs or less prior to F2P). Even many of its initial fanboys have given up. But heck, I just stopped playing. Don't post on their forums. No point in it. If I did post there my posts would look just like yours. Tinged with venom at all the things I think they did wrong. That's not productive so I don't bother.

 

Yes, you have the right (since Bioware gives it to you) to come to the forums and complain to your hearts content about all the real and imagined failings of SWTOR. But if you see no redeeming qualities, and just about every post of yours is negative, then why you stay is a great mystery to me.

 

Whatever. Opinions about the game, from whoever they may come from, have no bearing at all on anyone else's opinions.

 

Conversely, personal attacks and insults are almost exclusively the domain of the Spin Doctors who routinely post on these forums so I'll just take the high road and leave that department to you and the usual offenders. I'll also refrain from reporting you for this post because... I don't care in the slightest.

 

If you can't tolerate opposing views, use the ignore function.

[CosmicKat]

(this isn't aimed at you specifically, I'm just sick of seeing that bantered about)

 

What exactly do people mean by this?

 

What is "story driven"?

 

You mean, there's a story while you level? That can be found in any other MMO as well (mostly). Or do you mean all of this games content is just meant to tell a story? If that's the case, why would there be a gear grind? I mean, you'd be done once you finished the "story" right?

 

My point is...that's a STUPID thing to say. Almost EVERY game, even Call of Duty, has a flipping "story". Just because Bioware did better than other games with their stories, doesn't make this MMO somehow unique in what players want to do at 50/55. Repeatable dungeons aren't some epic form of "story telling"...their end game content...nothing more.

 

This game is no more story driven than Halo is...hell, Halo is even MORE story driven since the outcome is 100% per-determined.

 

I think what they mean is that because the story is well done, and it is, that it excludes Bioware from culpability in other areas of the game that are lacking.

 

Same argument made by defenders of the SW prequels, that the movies are excluded from criticism for the plot, acting, and overall stinkiness of the movies because they have cool special effects.

[asbalana]

(this isn't aimed at you specifically, I'm just sick of seeing that bantered about)

 

What exactly do people mean by this?

 

What is "story driven"?

 

You mean, there's a story while you level? That can be found in any other MMO as well (mostly). Or do you mean all of this games content is just meant to tell a story? If that's the case, why would there be a gear grind? I mean, you'd be done once you finished the "story" right?

 

My point is...that's a STUPID thing to say. Almost EVERY game, even Call of Duty, has a flipping "story". Just because Bioware did better than other games with their stories, doesn't make this MMO somehow unique in what players want to do at 50/55. Repeatable dungeons aren't some epic form of "story telling"...their end game content...nothing more.

 

This game is no more story driven than Halo is...hell, Halo is even MORE story driven since the outcome is 100% per-determined.

 

I think that you have ignored the point of my post.

 

SWTOR has as it's main focus story (general leveling, class, and even companion).. The story aspect has been it's main selling point and it's main focus. Currently, one of the more discussed topics concerning Makeb and the game's future is class story. BW is the gaming company that tells stories

 

Yes, other games take a pass at and contain some story. So what? It is a question of degree and emphasis. It is too early, PST, for me to pull up quotes by BW about the importance and role of story content (but they are there). Right now I am on my lap top with doggy sleeping at my side and wifey starting breakfast.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

(this isn't aimed at you specifically, I'm just sick of seeing that bantered about)

 

What exactly do people mean by this?

 

What is "story driven"?

 

You mean, there's a story while you level? That can be found in any other MMO as well (mostly). Or do you mean all of this games content is just meant to tell a story? If that's the case, why would there be a gear grind? I mean, you'd be done once you finished the "story" right?

 

My point is...that's a STUPID thing to say. Almost EVERY game, even Call of Duty, has a flipping "story". Just because Bioware did better than other games with their stories, doesn't make this MMO somehow unique in what players want to do at 50/55. Repeatable dungeons aren't some epic form of "story telling"...their end game content...nothing more.

 

This game is no more story driven than Halo is...hell, Halo is even MORE story driven since the outcome is 100% per-determined.

 

What this means is the driving force is the story not the gameplay. The original design was basically copy everything WoW and add a much better story to it. That's what it means. The reason we haven't see the emphasis on story sense is that the story isn't really lacking, but a lot of the gameplay and endgame content have been. They've been working pretty much exclusively on fixing that for sometime now. Hopefully in the future they can better balance adding story and improving gameplay/adding end game content.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Arlon_Nabarlly