Healing IS TOTALLY ouf of control

[NoTomorrow]

I think we just have to live with this cross-healiing bullcrap. The new patch out, no balance changes, the next patch nobody has an idea when it will come.

 

Operative healer was already a very very powerful healer during 1.7. There was no need to improve it further.

Edited May 15, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[DarthMaulUK]

Healers healing healers. Welcome to Star Wars: The Red cross

[Tharenisis]

If your team can't put enough damage to down a healer with 3 people then you are doing something wrong. Countering healer is only impossible if your teams coordination/ understanding of priorities is not on the same level.

 

3 people could most definitely take down a healer.

2 people should probably be able to take down a healer if they are not bad.

1 person can possibly take down a healer if hes skilled and times his interrupts.

 

But your forgetting three things.

1. The enemy dps that is melting you while your trying to lock down a healer (if you get lucky enough to even have your own healer this is not so bad.) All the healer has to do is blow all of his cooldowns, knockbacks, stuns until the dps melts you.

2. As stated above, the amount of knock backs, stuns, roots that are on the battlefield at one given time, makes staying on a healer very difficult.

3. There is normally more then 1 healer.

 

People keep thinking in a 1v1 standpoint when trying to defend the way healers are now. They always forget about what else is going on in the battlefield. They also forget that most of the complaints are coming from random queue's not ranked games. It's almost required that a ranked team will know what they are doing, have proper communication, assigned roles, and strategy. The problem we are facing is with random queue's which is the pvp that most actually play.

 

Healing in this game, especially in the pvp -random queue standpoint needs to be looked at.

Random's don't have the organization to lock down multiple healers, and you can't honestly expect them to. They queued solo.

 

I've never, ever, had the opportunity to stay on a healer in this game to lock him down in a random queue without some outside force interfering and letting that healer get a heal off. That or there is always 2-3 other healers nearby who nobody else is locking down who is power healing away.

 

TLDR: If your too lazy to read get off the forums.

[Zorash]

3 people could most definitely take down a healer.

2 people should probably be able to take down a healer if they are not bad.

1 person can possibly take down a healer if hes skilled and times his interrupts.

 

But your forgetting three things.

1. The enemy dps that is melting you while your trying to lock down a healer (if you get lucky enough to even have your own healer this is not so bad.) All the healer has to do is blow all of his cooldowns, knockbacks, stuns until the dps melts you.

2. As stated above, the amount of knock backs, stuns, roots that are on the battlefield at one given time, makes staying on a healer very difficult.

3. There is normally more then 1 healer.

 

People keep thinking in a 1v1 standpoint when trying to defend the way healers are now. They always forget about what else is going on in the battlefield. They also forget that most of the complaints are coming from random queue's not ranked games. It's almost required that a ranked team will know what they are doing, have proper communication, assigned roles, and strategy. The problem we are facing is with random queue's which is the pvp that most actually play.

 

Healing in this game, especially in the pvp -random queue standpoint needs to be looked at.

Random's don't have the organization to lock down multiple healers, and you can't honestly expect them to. They queued solo.

 

I've never, ever, had the opportunity to stay on a healer in this game to lock him down in a random queue without some outside force interfering and letting that healer get a heal off. That or there is always 2-3 other healers nearby who nobody else is locking down who is power healing away.

 

TLDR: If your too lazy to read get off the forums.

 

LOL they don't have the organization? more like they don't have the brainpower to comprehend how to win. Seriously, it takes all of 1second to figure out who a healer is. In addition, it doesn't take a lot of common sense to see, oh look there are 2 of my teammates attacking that healer, maybe I should attack that healer too, instead of attacking this random tank.

 

Using stupidity as an excuse for having at least 2 people focusing on 1 target is absolutely ridiculous. There are situations in which pugs don't have the coordination to accomplish certain goals, but having 2 people focus the same target isn't one of them.

[Tharenisis]

LOL they don't have the organization? more like they don't have the brainpower to comprehend how to win. Seriously, it takes all of 1second to figure out who a healer is. In addition, it doesn't take a lot of common sense to see, oh look there are 2 of my teammates attacking that healer, maybe I should attack that healer too, instead of attacking this random tank.

 

Using stupidity as an excuse for having at least 2 people focusing on 1 target is absolutely ridiculous. There are situations in which pugs don't have the coordination to accomplish certain goals, but having 2 people focus the same target isn't one of them.

 

Let me know how that expert advice works out for you when the other 2 healers are over there healing the one your focusing. You have to have them ALL locked down or focusing one is pointless and a waste of time.

 

Then again, we aren't allotted the time to sit there in combat and type: Okay guys, you pug #1, attack Healer #1 and keep him locked. Pug #2, you got healer #2. Pug #3, you take 3. Everyone else focus down pug #1->#2->#3. By the time you type this out, you and your team will be dead.

 

Honestly if we really want to solve the problem, we need to have a viewboard at the beginning of each match which shows the enemy team, their specs, and Bioware needs to disable respeccing in pvp. This way even pugs can have some sort of strategy before running in blind, and in the mist of the chaos trying to get every single healer locked down at the same time.

 

Next time read my post before putting your 2 cents in. Especially if all your going to do is repeat the usual ignorant "LOL L2P" and not provide any constructive feedback.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Tharenisis

[Astarica]

With the augment exploit fixed it's even harder than it was before to kill healers. Yes the healers can run the exploit too, but it's easy to see if DPS/HPS doubled for everyone it'd be much easier to kill a healer compared to now because sometimes a healer would die without any chance of reacting even if he can heal 100% of his health in one heal. Thankfully, fixing the augment exploits means it's harder for a heavy healer team to actually kill anybody too (they usualy are running the exploits), but unfortunately this just means you'll be seeing more single digit total deaths games.

[Tankqull]

lastly, scoundrels/operatives were granted a massive advantage over every other healing AC because they rarely, if ever, need to cast at 50/55. thus, there's nothing to interrupt. and when they really need to cast (30% or below), they get buffed automatically. the upshot/relevance here is that you need stuns for ops/scouns in order to effectively kill them (unless there's like 3 ppl or 2 really good ones on them -- that's out of whack with the other 2 healing classes)

if an ops/scoundral does not need to fall back on underworld medicine/kolto injection to compensate your dmg you are doing sth realy wrong as a DD.

[Princz]

No, but it would be OP if it autocrit and was not heal over time. Remind you of anything else in the game?

 

The smashers need "adjustment" also ...but this is qq healing thread

 

To be objective both smash and healing need a small tone down and everything will be really nice.

 

The huge healing now makes ranked teams bring 3 healers to ensure immortality... with a healing tone down a 3d healer would be a liability ....

 

but most of all the only thing to consider playing the class is managing force but yeah.... it is boring as hell to play one nowadays.

[NeverSuffer]

Ugh quit telling bioware to nerf healing........ we can't trust them to make a fair nerf. They are going to nerf it so hard that healers wont be viable or fun to play because you people are demanding that you be able to burn through any healer by yourself with one hand behind your back. Just wait.... incoming nerfs will make all the healers reroll x..x.

[TheCourier-]

If you want medics to die, then ask Bioware to revert the nerfs to annihilation spec. Annihilation marauder of patch 1.2 was the best killer of medics that SWTOR has seen. Annihilation was one of the best designed specs of SWTOR until Bioware nerfed annihilation to where annihilation is almost unplayable.

[DanAxe]

Just want to clarify something for some people who apparently never played sage healer (so its normal you dont know this, but take this chance to enlight yourself):

 

Insta Cast salvation is not a real problem. Its just something in your mind...

 

1 - Salvation (wether instant or full cast) takes a huge chunk of a sages force, somewhere around the 20%force.

2 - If you get a insta cast salvation, you just burned down your 3 stacks of force regen (plus 20%force), which means you wont be sacrificing health for force anytime soon if u dont want to get the regen debuff, which in turn means it wont take long until you're out of force and can barely keep yourself alive, let alone the rest of the team.

 

Salvation is not something you can "spam cast" at all, and its not very profitable for a sage, unless everybody in your team runs to the healing donut when they see it (which they dont), and even then, the amount of force it costs plus the cost of 3 stacks of force regen for insta-cast is not good at all, so its a spell you have to be careful. If your a good healer, you wont be spamming it, neither you will be casting it unless you're absolutely sure the amount of people it will heal, covers the expensive resources u have to spend in it. A sage who spams insta cast salvation is a sage that will be dead in a few seconds.

 

So, dont start ************ asking for a NERF SALVATION.. If anything, it needs twitching. Id rather have to cast it all the time (no insta cast) if i could save my 3 stacks of force regen to use when i see fit... It is in my opinion a broken ability right now, but not because its too good as you might believe, but because its an ability that totally breaks the sage's force management.

[Loladarulz]

LOL they don't have the organization? more like they don't have the brainpower to comprehend how to win. Seriously, it takes all of 1second to figure out who a healer is. In addition, it doesn't take a lot of common sense to see, oh look there are 2 of my teammates attacking that healer, maybe I should attack that healer too, instead of attacking this random tank.

 

Using stupidity as an excuse for having at least 2 people focusing on 1 target is absolutely ridiculous. There are situations in which pugs don't have the coordination to accomplish certain goals, but having 2 people focus the same target isn't one of them.

 

Now this is ignorant comment. We DO focus healers. If you don't you will have 0 kills at the end and lose the game. If you do you will have 5 kills and get stalemate.

 

As dps coordinate, healers also coordinate. Tanks are defending healers. Healers are defending healers.Once you get stunned they heal good portion of the damage you fought so hard to inflict. And there's plenty of stuns in this game. DPS just can't inflict enough damage to kill team with healers. Even if you kill one healer somehow, by the time you manage to do it, the other guy has respawned and came back to fight. Hence stalemate..

Bet you are a healer also..

[Loladarulz]

Just want to clarify something for some people who apparently never played sage healer (so its normal you dont know this, but take this chance to enlight yourself):

 

Insta Cast salvation is not a real problem. Its just something in your mind...

 

1 - Salvation (wether instant or full cast) takes a huge chunk of a sages force, somewhere around the 20%force.

2 - If you get a insta cast salvation, you just burned down your 3 stacks of force regen (plus 20%force), which means you wont be sacrificing health for force anytime soon if u dont want to get the regen debuff, which in turn means it wont take long until you're out of force and can barely keep yourself alive, let alone the rest of the team.

 

Salvation is not something you can "spam cast" at all, and its not very profitable for a sage, unless everybody in your team runs to the healing donut when they see it (which they dont), and even then, the amount of force it costs plus the cost of 3 stacks of force regen for insta-cast is not good at all, so its a spell you have to be careful. If your a good healer, you wont be spamming it, neither you will be casting it unless you're absolutely sure the amount of people it will heal, covers the expensive resources u have to spend in it. A sage who spams insta cast salvation is a sage that will be dead in a few seconds.

 

So, dont start ************ asking for a NERF SALVATION.. If anything, it needs twitching. Id rather have to cast it all the time (no insta cast) if i could save my 3 stacks of force regen to use when i see fit... It is in my opinion a broken ability right now, but not because its too good as you might believe, but because its an ability that totally breaks the sage's force management.

 

To be honest, sorc healers are easiest to kill of all, they don't need nerf. Healing mechanics need some change - heals are too big and too quick and HP generally too high, or the stuns are too long etc. Whatever, all of this is leading to stalemates and annoying gameplay.

[Arkerus]

Now this is ignorant comment. We DO focus healers. If you don't you will have 0 kills at the end and lose the game. If you do you will have 5 kills and get stalemate.

 

As dps coordinate, healers also coordinate. Tanks are defending healers. Healers are defending healers.Once you get stunned they heal good portion of the damage you fought so hard to inflict. And there's plenty of stuns in this game. DPS just can't inflict enough damage to kill team with healers. Even if you kill one healer somehow, by the time you manage to do it, the other guy has respawned and came back to fight. Hence stalemate..

Bet you are a healer also..

 

Agreed. I am so sick of the healer excuses that DPS don't coordinate and healing just looks OP. Even if DPS was perfectly coordinated it means next to nothing. Tanks are still guarding, players are still peeling you off, stuns stop any kind of coordinated effort.

 

It's ridiculous to blame everything on uncoordinated pugs when the reality healers healing healers pretty much guarantees that no one will be able to bring one down.

 

For PvP to even work players have to die and respawn. PvP isn't working right now when there are civil wars that never see the middle node captured and void stars that fail to break the first set of doors.

[Astarica]

Agreed. I am so sick of the healer excuses that DPS don't coordinate and healing just looks OP. Even if DPS was perfectly coordinated it means next to nothing. Tanks are still guarding, players are still peeling you off, stuns stop any kind of coordinated effort.

 

It's ridiculous to blame everything on uncoordinated pugs when the reality healers healing healers pretty much guarantees that no one will be able to bring one down.

 

For PvP to even work players have to die and respawn. PvP isn't working right now when there are civil wars that never see the middle node captured and void stars that fail to break the first set of doors.

 

And in these games if you're in the middle it's likely there are 6 guys on your side and 6 guys on the enemy side at all times. I guess both sides are just bad players and don't know how to focus fire? I mean even if you're winning (the side capped first and ahead by 10), your victory will be more assured if you actually cap middle, so it's not like there's an incentive to purposely not kill the enemy even for the winning side.

[Quinlynn]

Now this is ignorant comment. We DO focus healers. If you don't you will have 0 kills at the end and lose the game. If you do you will have 5 kills and get stalemate.

 

As dps coordinate, healers also coordinate. Tanks are defending healers. Healers are defending healers.Once you get stunned they heal good portion of the damage you fought so hard to inflict. And there's plenty of stuns in this game. DPS just can't inflict enough damage to kill team with healers. Even if you kill one healer somehow, by the time you manage to do it, the other guy has respawned and came back to fight. Hence stalemate..

Bet you are a healer also..

 

QFE

 

I thought the bolster fix might mitigate some of this. Not so.

 

Had a CW last night that ended 10 to zero with mid never captured. Was a total heal fest.

 

Imps had three healers repubs 2. We would burn down 2 healers, almost get the third and then one was back and the other almost back.

 

Wasn't really that fun.

 

Waiting for TESO.

[Astarica]

QFE

 

I thought the bolster fix might mitigate some of this. Not so.

 

Had a CW last night that ended 10 to zero with mid never captured. Was a total heal fest.

 

Imps had three healers repubs 2. We would burn down 2 healers, almost get the third and then one was back and the other almost back.

 

Wasn't really that fun.

 

Waiting for TESO.

 

The augment exploit favors DPS. I've seen both people heal for crazy numbers and deal crazy numbers but you never see someone walking around with ridiculous HP numbers, so it's got a bigger effect on DPS/HPS than raw HPs. If you increase DPS/HPS by the same % while holding HP constant (or at least increase it by a smaller %) it's always in favor of the DPS, because when DPS goes high enough you can one shot a healer and then it wouldn't matter if the healer could heal for an infinite amount of damage.

 

I think last night half of my games were healfests where at least one side had single digit total deaths. Sometimes both side had single digit total deaths and getting the '10 kills medal' is actually a signifcant event. One of the game on Novare Coast was just 14 guys trying to cap middle and see who got lucky.

[foxmob]

if an ops/scoundral does not need to fall back on underworld medicine/kolto injection to compensate your dmg you are doing sth realy wrong as a DD.

 

funny guy. dirty kick. scamper. two free casts.

[platinumruggo]

If your team can't put enough damage to down a healer with 3 people then you are doing something wrong. Countering healer is only impossible if your teams coordination/ understanding of priorities is not on the same level.

 

Let's be honest here, how many pug teams actually COORDINATE their efforts? Unless you're in a premade it's damn near impossible unless you have competent teammates which doesn't happen often.

[DeadDogBarking]

I do not see it as healing per say but the whole bonus to ranged with the nerf to burst smash

 

One Dps used to be able to target one healer and smash kill them and then probably die. That was the idea, but they could also target any ranged and kill them at will so a team of melee dps could wreak havoc. Not always in every situation, but my take.

 

Now we BW and community said enough, but it swung the other way. A full group of ranged can stop the smash mid way through the rotation. They can also be far enough out of the dps range to not be a secondary target. The stealth classes are still in single player mode stacking up nodes and single kills (used to keep pressure on back field), but they are now the one needed to initiate the sniper healer kills (on average not always).

 

I think it is the class balance and game play that is allowing the massive heals. But yeah, I have been seeing and taking screen shots of win after win of healer/ sniper/and yes mercs with even minimal protection beating teams with more than 3-4 melee dps smash. At this time, i would rather hit other ground dps including tanks over ranged with healers.

 

but does depend on team player level and server class populations

[Astarica]

I do not see it as healing per say but the whole bonus to ranged with the nerf to burst smash

 

One Dps used to be able to target one healer and smash kill them and then probably die. That was the idea, but they could also target any ranged and kill them at will so a team of melee dps could wreak havoc. Not always in every situation, but my take.

 

Now we BW and community said enough, but it swung the other way. A full group of ranged can stop the smash mid way through the rotation. They can also be far enough out of the dps range to not be a secondary target. The stealth classes are still in single player mode stacking up nodes and single kills (used to keep pressure on back field), but they are now the one needed to initiate the sniper healer kills (on average not always).

 

I think it is the class balance and game play that is allowing the massive heals. But yeah, I have been seeing and taking screen shots of win after win of healer/ sniper/and yes mercs with even minimal protection beating teams with more than 3-4 melee dps smash. At this time, i would rather hit other ground dps including tanks over ranged with healers.

 

but does depend on team player level and server class populations

 

Well, when people do not die easily it's always going to favor ranged DPS, simply because ranged DPS has longer range and is thus mostly immune to snaring/immobilizing effects in terms of ability to do damage. By design, melee DPS tend to be a bit more durable than their ranged counterpart but deal less damage over time simply due to range limitations. That is fine if people are dying, but if they're not than the extra durability does not even matter.

[Aelaias]

Well, when people do not die easily it's always going to favor ranged DPS, simply because ranged DPS has longer range and is thus mostly immune to snaring/immobilizing effects in terms of ability to do damage. By design, melee DPS tend to be a bit more durable than their ranged counterpart but deal less damage over time simply due to range limitations. That is fine if people are dying, but if they're not than the extra durability does not even matter.

 

SS and MM are pretty damn durable and mobile. But yes, vanguard and knight mdps is screwed over by the current situation with smash monkeys being a bit less so. Which was why I respecced focus and do reasonably well in a suit optimized for vigilance.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Aelaias

[SithKerr]

I have to be honest, I play a sage and am pretty untouchable to many. One person alone really can't do it, that shouldn't be happening. A one on one with any class should be able to beat me, but that isn't the case. I laugh stomp while burning you down, then heal to full with no problem while you nerd rage on your keyboard I'm sure. I kind of like being OP right now, hope they don't "fix" anything.

[UncelSam]

Ive been saying this for almost a year already. Good to see ppl start waking up now!

 

Put a cap of how much healing you can recive during one combat or per time is a solution.

[NeverSuffer]

Ive been saying this for almost a year already. Good to see ppl start waking up now!

 

Put a cap of how much healing you can recive during one combat or per time is a solution.

 

That is the worst solution I have seen yet. Let's make healers obsolete and see how much fun it is to play a healer! Heck lets make it so that any DPS can kill 2-3 healers solo in just a few seconds.... then we dont have to worry about healers any more. Healers SHOULD be powerful and it SHOULD take a coordinated effort to take them out. People ALWAYS focus fire healers in any PvP game (almost)... if healers have no tools to be able to survive a focused onslaught and still be effective at healing then there is no point to having them in PvP.