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Healing IS TOTALLY ouf of control


Loladarulz

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PVP healing has really gone totally out of control, its ridiculous and annoying and not fun, and then again ridiculous and annoying. Voidstar is nightmare to play, I make 900k dmg and have like 3 or 5 kills total. Nobody can open the door whole game and game ends with scores 0-0 mostly. Somewhere in the half of the game I just wish to leave and play a Hutball or something else. It feels like rolling the stone uphill for 15 minutes..

Focusing helps ofcourse but it has almost come to the point that you need at least 3 people on a healer. Operative healers are EXTREMELY hard to kill for some reason to add to the problem. And this is happening more often now, as every Bob and Jo are switching to healing spec.

 

Now what we need something is some healing limitation in PVP: something like - the more you heal the same player the more are heals reduced. Cap it on 50%. Example: if you heal a player for his full hp heals are reduced 25%, if you heal him 2x for full hp (say 50k heal) reduce heal 50%. Heals are 50% until he dies. Then reset after death. Numbers are arbitrary here thats balance issue.

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I think this issue is really bolster related.

 

When I fight peeps outside of WZs, they seem totally different.

 

Have to wait and see how things change with this patch tonight. Might just be peeps abusing the augment sploit.

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PVP healing has really gone totally out of control, its ridiculous and annoying and not fun, and then again ridiculous and annoying. Voidstar is nightmare to play, I make 900k dmg and have like 3 or 5 kills total. Nobody can open the door whole game and game ends with scores 0-0 mostly. Somewhere in the half of the game I just wish to leave and play a Hutball or something else. It feels like rolling the stone uphill for 15 minutes..

Focusing helps ofcourse but it has almost come to the point that you need at least 3 people on a healer. Operative healers are EXTREMELY hard to kill for some reason to add to the problem. And this is happening more often now, as every Bob and Jo are switching to healing spec.

 

Now what we need something is some healing limitation in PVP: something like - the more you heal the same player the more are heals reduced. Cap it on 50%. Example: if you heal a player for his full hp heals are reduced 25%, if you heal him 2x for full hp (say 50k heal) reduce heal 50%. Heals are 50% until he dies. Then reset after death. Numbers are arbitrary here thats balance issue.

 

If your team can't put enough damage to down a healer with 3 people then you are doing something wrong. Countering healer is only impossible if your teams coordination/ understanding of priorities is not on the same level.

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Just give out more/stronger healing debuffs ala flourish shot for gunslingers (naturally, to more classes). Problem solved. Or boost trauma debuff.

 

If you give the debuff to more classes you might as well make it passive. I can't think of any reason why the PvE game would be balanced around a healing debuff, so you can just get rid of it completely for PvE and make Trauma 45% or whatever is needed to get the numbers to work.

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If you give the debuff to more classes you might as well make it passive. I can't think of any reason why the PvE game would be balanced around a healing debuff, so you can just get rid of it completely for PvE and make Trauma 45% or whatever is needed to get the numbers to work.

 

the numbers are working, whats not working is teamwork on the side of the dds.

healer teamwork is easier to achieve as the ui automatically provides an operation team overview, while making the ui assist you to assist needs a bit of preperation wich 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% (i think you get the direction) of the dd classes are either unwilling or unable to do.

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I keep seeing these type posts, and I don't get them... in my opinion it's a l2p issue not a healing is overpowered issue. There's certain classes just built to destroy healers - 1 high dps marauder, PT or assassin can shutdown any good healer by themselves. 2 high dps players using their burst/cc/interrupts/debuffs appropriately will destroy most classes in just seconds despite heals. When I'm playing a healer, there's a huge difference in the amount of pressure I feel trying to keep myself alive when I'm facing good players compared to average players.

 

Nerfing healers isn't going to fix the real problem, which is that your team isn't any good.

Edited by darthruff
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Fixes for healing are simple

 

Remove Salvation insta cast from sage

Bring back Scoundrel energy management

 

Healing fixed :)

 

Wow did you ever play a seer sage in PVP before 2.0?

 

Before 2.0, salvation was utterly useless in PVP. It was ALWAYS interrupted, unless the other team was terribad. Maybe it had use as a fakecast, but nothing more.

 

This is why sages who stuck it out healing post 1.2 took the hybrid. Even before bubblestun. The top tier ability for sage heals was only useful in PVE, the interrupts were so bad in PVP. The knockback root alone being 14ish points up in telekinetic tree was better, never mind the later addition (and removal) of bubblestun.

 

Take away instant salvation and the talent becomes worthless again. Except this time there's no utility/survivability hybrid alternative because even the kb root (which no one ever really QQed about, all the QQ was about bubblestun) got moved up to 27 points in telekinetics for no apparent reason.

 

Before we could basically trade a bunch of little healing bonus talents between 21-31 points for survivability in telekinetics. Output vs. solo pug survivability, it was a fair trade-off. Now my heals are almost double what they were in bubblestun but Bioware has made the choice for me: there is no other way to heal now. And since I won't be preventing uncounted thousands of damage through cc (rooting melee off me, to say nothing of bubblestun), I need to be able to heal through it for even the most basic balance to be preserved.

 

Oh sure, we'll be able to cast salvation once every two minutes now with Mental Alacrity. BFD. May as well make it a 2 minute cooldown and make it heal the entire team no matter where they are, like predation.

 

But go ahead. Remove instant salvation. Don't bother giving the knockback root back (to say nothing of it USED to be 360, a long long time ago), because melee will QQ and it'll get put way back up as a top tier talent for DPS only. You know, like how Bioware puts a kiting talent (reduced cd sprint) waaaaay up in the turret spec. :rolleyes:

 

And then sage healers will become like tracer mercs were for a year.

Edited by AdrianDmitruk
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Wow did you ever play a seer sage in PVP before 2.0?

 

Before 2.0, salvation was utterly useless in PVP. It was ALWAYS interrupted, unless the other team was terribad. Maybe it had use as a fakecast, but nothing more.

 

This is why sages who stuck it out healing post 1.2 took the hybrid. Even before bubblestun. The top tier ability for sage heals was only useful in PVE, the interrupts were so bad in PVP. The knockback root alone being 14ish points up in telekinetic tree was better, never mind the later addition (and removal) of bubblestun.

 

Take away instant salvation and the talent becomes worthless again. Except this time there's no utility/survivability hybrid alternative because even the kb root (which no one ever really QQed about, all the QQ was about bubblestun) got moved up to 27 points in telekinetics for no apparent reason.

 

Before we could basically trade a bunch of little healing bonus talents between 21-31 points for survivability in telekinetics. Output vs. solo pug survivability, it was a fair trade-off. Now my heals are almost double what they were in bubblestun but Bioware has made the choice for me: there is no other way to heal now. And since I won't be preventing uncounted thousands of damage through cc (rooting melee off me, to say nothing of bubblestun), I need to be able to heal through it for even the most basic balance to be preserved.

 

Oh sure, we'll be able to cast salvation once every two minutes now with Mental Alacrity. BFD. May as well make it a 2 minute cooldown and make it heal the entire team no matter where they are, like predation.

 

But go ahead. Remove instant salvation. Don't bother giving the knockback root back (to say nothing of it USED to be 360, a long long time ago), because melee will QQ and it'll get put way back up as a top tier talent for DPS only. You know, like how Bioware puts a kiting talent (reduced cd sprint) waaaaay up in the turret spec. :rolleyes:

 

And then sage healers will become like tracer mercs were for a year.

 

My main is a sage healer

I play sage healer from the very start

 

a good sage will always find a window to cast Salvation

Insta AOE heal is overpowered - either we like it or not

+ now you have active alacrity/immunity to interuptions (mental alacrity)

 

Sage healer is boring as hell ....even the worse players can make healing numbers now

 

Ihmo nerfing aoe heals and bringing back scoundrel/operative energy management is the way to go... ppl need to die in pvp.

Edited by Princz
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Now what we need something is some healing limitation in PVP: something like - the more you heal the same player the more are heals reduced. Cap it on 50%. Example: if you heal a player for his full hp heals are reduced 25%, if you heal him 2x for full hp (say 50k heal) reduce heal 50%. Heals are 50% until he dies. Then reset after death. Numbers are arbitrary here thats balance issue.

 

A DR on heal? That's like asking for a DR on DPS in order to solve TTK.

 

I agree with you that heal needs to be adjusted, but this is not a trivial thing to do. If you nerf it too much, then single healers will become free loot. But if you don't nerf it enough, then nobody will be able to kill anything healed by a cross healing combo.

 

This said, a team with DPSers who think that damage is the answer to everything should definitely not win a WZ.

If the opponent has several healers, then it's your job as a DPSer to stick to one of them and to reduce his heal output to a minimum. This you don't do with stupidly DPSing him, but with interrupts, CC, knocking him away from the group he wants to heal etc. Each time you see that he will be healing someone, don't let him do it. Don't waste any resources on DPSing him, it's pointless because he will be healed by others.

 

Oh, and one more thing, since you were talking about voidstar as a DPSer. If your mate is capping and you see an opposing player approaching, DON'T START STUPIDLY DPSING HIM cause this will not keep him from interrupting your mate. Simply CC him. This will buy your mate the time he needs for capping.

Edited by Cretinus
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My main is a sage healer

I play sage healer from the very start

 

a good sage will always find a window to cast Salvation

Insta AOE heal is overpowered - either we like it or not

+ now you have active alacrity/immunity to interuptions (mental alacrity)

 

Sage healer is boring as hell ....even the worse players can make healing numbers now

 

Ihmo nerfing aoe heals and bringing back scoundrel/operative energy management is the way to go... ppl need to die in pvp.

 

I'll gladly trade salvation---not only insta salvation but the whole ability--to get a root back on my knockback. But that choice was taken away from me in the name of nerfing hybrids. Not even because it was OP, but because all hybrids must be extingished. Because I'd rather be rooting the 3 melee chasing me so I can kite than worrying about when I can find a way to maybe get my salvation down when I try to sprint away/los and they obliterate/rubberband me even though I'm SUPPOSED to be immune to the root.

 

Hell, I MIGHT even trade salvation for getting the reduced sprint cd talent moved to heal tree, though I'd want that tested.

 

Team Bubblestun OTOH...as much as I hated to admit it, I can see why that had to go.

 

True we have Mental Alacrity now, but let's face it, you can't rely on it being up when you might want to cast AOE heal.

 

Healers are like smashers now...1 isn't bad but 5 of them is LOL. Without them, TTK is ridiculously and ludicrously short, with too many of them it gets really really long. I think that's more an indication that we need cross-server PVP and proper matchmaking than anything else.

Edited by AdrianDmitruk
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Healing don't need any adjustment. If you hit someone for 5k damage I as a healer should be able to heal for 5k. Against a halfway good team you can lock down healers easily. The problem isn't the game, it's all the bad players blaming their lack of skill on the game. So many times (at least on the republic side) there is a major lack of communication and a whole lot of ego and name calling going on in a match. Want to fix pvp? Learn your class and learn what it takes to play as a team and you will win.
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Healing don't need any adjustment. If you hit someone for 5k damage I as a healer should be able to heal for 5k. Against a halfway good team you can lock down healers easily. The problem isn't the game, it's all the bad players blaming their lack of skill on the game. So many times (at least on the republic side) there is a major lack of communication and a whole lot of ego and name calling going on in a match. Want to fix pvp? Learn your class and learn what it takes to play as a team and you will win.

 

Top dps and top healing numbers should be balanced

 

in a game where average dps does 500K-600K average healer will do 700K+

Edited by Princz
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Just give out more/stronger healing debuffs ala flourish shot for gunslingers (naturally, to more classes). Problem solved. Or boost trauma debuff.

 

This is NOT the solution.

 

 

SWTOR has a good thing by not requiring 50% healing debuffs. In every other MMO, the classes with the heavy healing debuff were the only ones that matter, and those without healing debuffs were worthless.

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Yeah.....its called interrupts. My healing hasn't gotten better since lvl 50; the DPS'ers seem to have just gone full retard.

 

It's a normal occurrence now for 2-3 DPS to be on me and they let me freecast until I run out of force or they get peeled and killed.

 

L2P Issue TBH.

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My main is a sage healer

I play sage healer from the very start

 

a good sage will always find a window to cast Salvation

Insta AOE heal is overpowered - either we like it or not

+ now you have active alacrity/immunity to interuptions (mental alacrity)

 

Sage healer is boring as hell ....even the worse players can make healing numbers now

 

Ihmo nerfing aoe heals and bringing back scoundrel/operative energy management is the way to go... ppl need to die in pvp.

 

Really? I see salvation as a force waste - 550 ticks/ 900 crit ticks aren't game changers. If you think Sage is OP there are much better things to nerf than an insta cast puddle. Every competent team I play just moves once I cast it to force my DPS to disengage or leave the heal.

 

Salvation is just a stat padder in 90% of the situations.

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Yeah.....its called interrupts. My healing hasn't gotten better since lvl 50; the DPS'ers seem to have just gone full retard.

 

It's a normal occurrence now for 2-3 DPS to be on me and they let me freecast until I run out of force or they get peeled and killed.

 

L2P Issue TBH.

 

I would rather interrupts be more effective and on shorter CDs for melee than have the plethora of stun. you can kinda see where the game tried to be balanced about that: certain classes were given short interrupt CDs (watchman sent, tactics VG) and other classes were given good CC (shadows, ops, snipers).

 

the problems, as I see them, are that EVERY CLASS HAS A LOT OF STUNS or can supplement a lack thereof with grenades that they don't even need to commit to cybertech to use.

 

another problem (in 2.0) is that every class now seems to have an activated abil to ignore interrupts, cc, or both (in addition to resolve).

 

lastly, scoundrels/operatives were granted a massive advantage over every other healing AC because they rarely, if ever, need to cast at 50/55. thus, there's nothing to interrupt. and when they really need to cast (30% or below), they get buffed automatically. the upshot/relevance here is that you need stuns for ops/scouns in order to effectively kill them (unless there's like 3 ppl or 2 really good ones on them -- that's out of whack with the other 2 healing classes)

 

it feels less like rock, paper, scissors than a series of patchwork, ad hoc changes made to appease the individual class rather than the rps relationships as a whole.

Edited by foxmob
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I think this issue is really bolster related.

 

When I fight peeps outside of WZs, they seem totally different.

 

Have to wait and see how things change with this patch tonight. Might just be peeps abusing the augment sploit.

Probably because they're not in expertise. I hit people with no expertise for around 10K with FiB on my sage. That will obviously never happen in a wz since everyone has atleast 1300 expertise.
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Class stacking has always been a problem in this game. 1 smash warrior is no problem. 4 smash warriors is a nightmare. 1 Powertech can easily be put down. 3 of those guys flame bursting your face off is nasty (well, it was before 2.0). Healing has become so easy in 2.0 that it's the new FotM. People are starting to stack them.

 

1 healer is not a problem.

2 healers can be dealt with.

3 healers... annoying...

 

I'm seeing more healers in warzones than ever before. It's not uncommon to see a team with 3 healers, or 2 healers with a couple of DPS doing some off-healing. Because of the rise in healing, the nerf of DPS powertechs and changes to shields, you're seeing a lot more tanks in warzones too. A true tank used to be a rare sight, but now there is almost always one in the warzone.

 

When you roll up to a door in voidstar being guarded by 3 good healers, a good tank and a DPS or two, you have, at most, 30 seconds to kill all that. Good luck. Hope you brought your ranked team, because in a pug warzone... not happening.

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People need to stop pretending healers suddenly got better between pre 2.0 and after 2.0. It's just way easier to heal with all the new ways of escaping, as the only notable anti-healing ability added in the game is the Electro Net (which most people foolishly use on non healers) on the side of DPS, while healers have a whole mess of new abilities to stay alive (Force Barrier, roll, free Polarity Shift for sages, free Hydraluic Overrides for commandoes).

 

Healing debuff on classes is not the answer as you'd just get a situation like early WoW where you can't PvP without Mortal Strike because otherwise no one would ever die. High general trauma would fix it, and I suggest getting rid of existing healing debuffs on Marauder/Sniper. They're not exactly weak and even if they are, adding some kind of gimmick isn't the way to balance it.

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With nerf burst of vanguards/pyros, there is left only 2-3 specs, who can solo kill healer - good smash mara, deception sin and probably arsenal merc...

 

while I agree in principle with the gist of your statement (solo killing healers has gone the way of the dodo), I disagree with the classes you list. no range can kill a healer unless the healer allows it (and being occupied by other opponents is allowing it). basically, any time electro net is up, a mando healer should have absolutely no trouble surviving, if not winning, a 1v1.

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Healing is no more op than top dps specs. I think the problem for most is that teamwork is now much more valued than before. (good) Healers have always been cognizant of other healers and try to work together. DPS needs more coordination to focus fire, and some epeens dont understand that.
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