BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Powertechs/Vanguards PvP-wise?

[Baedwulf]

Who would have thought we would see the day that this was a legitimate complaint? Edited May 13, 2013 by Baedwulf

[Crawelc]

Who would have thought we would see the day that this was a legitimate complaint?

 

But it isn't. So there is that. Pretty sure there are commandos laughing their asses off right now. Took 6+months of ************ to get them even remotely viable. Took -6 weeks for the vg/pts to start complaining.

[Baedwulf]

But it isn't. So there is that. Pretty sure there are commandos laughing their asses off right now. Took 6+months of ************ to get them even remotely viable. Took -6 weeks for the vg/pts to start complaining.

 

I guess I can't say I've played my PT enough to really argue either way but I know all of the competitive players on our server would rather have other DPS classes fill that WZ spot.

 

In the little bit I've played my PT since 2.0 I can def say the complaints seem valid. The only thing a PT was really good at is now gone. Burst.

 

Maybe not useless but it def appears there are plenty of classes doing it much better.

[Crawelc]

I guess I can't say I've played my PT enough to really argue either way but I know all of the competitive players on our server would rather have other DPS classes fill that WZ spot.

 

In the little bit I've played my PT since 2.0 I can def say the complaints seem valid. The only thing a PT was really good at is now gone. Burst.

 

Maybe not useless but it def appears there are plenty of classes doing it much better.

 

Oh yeah im not trying to argue that the did or did not get nerfed to hard really. I haven't played mine since pre 1.7. Mostly just laughing at the short amount of time it took this thread to be made. The copying of the merc post format in the title and what not. As if VG/PT have been put upon for a long time.

[cashogy_reborn]

But it isn't. So there is that. Pretty sure there are commandos laughing their asses off right now. Took 6+months of ************ to get them even remotely viable. Took -6 weeks for the vg/pts to start complaining.

 

this. mando/merc waited a year for some attention, and even then there are still some glaring issues (a melee ranged root for a ranged class? lolwut)

 

yes, PT/VG got nerfed. yes, the nerf was actually unwarranted if you understood the situation more deeply than "zomgz powertechs pwnzorzed me NERF THEMNAO!". but that is the way MMOs work, unfortunately.

 

supposedly we will be seeing more frequent class balance changes, so hopefully AP is being vigilant in working on class balance. there should be little tweaks to each class in every major patch.

[ceelaniri]

Mostly just laughing at the short amount of time it took this thread to be made. The copying of the merc post format in the title and what not. As if VG/PT have been put upon for a long time.

 

how long should it take before making one?

 

As for your last comment, if you talk about AP/Tactics PT/VG, they have not been competitive for a long time..

[dcgregorya]

Healing debuffs have no place in a game where healing is actually meaningful because it just becomes like WoW's Mortal Strike where it's not possible to have meaningful PvP without it, and then they eventually ended up giving Mortal Strike's effect to half of the classes and at that point you might as well not have the effect anymore and just make it permanent.

 

If a class loses every ability it currently has but gained a new '100% healing debuff' ability, there's almost no way any team of 8 without one of this class even has a chance against any other group of 8 that features 1 of this class. Even a team of 8 DPS still has a lot of passive healing from medpacks and CDs. I really can't imagine why healing debuff is needed for PvE in the first place. It's not like there's this boss that randomly heals himself for half a million HP that cannot be interrupted so you absolutely need to debuff it 20% so that you can beat the enrage timer. At least, I hope such a ridiculous encounter does not exist somewhere. There shouldn't be a healing debuff ability, period, because it's pretty much impossible to balance a game around it.

 

Alternatively, increase general PVP trauma debuff.

[CommanderKeeva]

Right now a Commando is a 4 button class and you can get away with it being a 2 button.

 

Lies. We use Hammer Shot, Grav Round, Demolition Round, High Impact Bolt, Sticky Grenade, Mortar Volley, Plasma Grenade, Hail of Bolts and Electro Net for damage, depending on the situation.

 

We use Reload, Reserve Powercell and Tech Override to manage our resource.

 

We use Stealth Scan, Hold the Line, Overload Shot, Kolto Bomb, Advanced Medical Probe and Medical Probe to provide utility to the team and keep ourselves alive.

 

And then there are defensive cooldowns such as Reactive Shield and Adrenaline Rush, a joke skill that may be.

 

That's far more than 4 skills. Any Gunnery Commando that just spams Grav Round will run out of ammo in 10 seconds.

[dannycarr]

Lies. We use Hammer Shot, Grav Round, Demolition Round, High Impact Bolt, Sticky Grenade, Mortar Volley, Plasma Grenade, Hail of Bolts and Electro Net for damage, depending on the situation.

 

We use Reload, Reserve Powercell and Tech Override to manage our resource.

 

We use Stealth Scan, Hold the Line, Overload Shot, Kolto Bomb, Advanced Medical Probe and Medical Probe to provide utility to the team and keep ourselves alive.

 

And then there are defensive cooldowns such as Reactive Shield and Adrenaline Rush, a joke skill that may be.

 

That's far more than 4 skills. Any Gunnery Commando that just spams Grav Round will run out of ammo in 10 seconds.

 

You forgot medpacks in there, I have over 24 binds for my commando and still feel like I need more. We have a lot more utility now, and to get the best out of them you need to use every ability available.

[Sziroten]

Lies. We use Hammer Shot, Grav Round, Demolition Round, High Impact Bolt, Sticky Grenade, Mortar Volley, Plasma Grenade, Hail of Bolts and Electro Net for damage, depending on the situation.

 

We use Reload, Reserve Powercell and Tech Override to manage our resource.

 

We use Stealth Scan, Hold the Line, Overload Shot, Kolto Bomb, Advanced Medical Probe and Medical Probe to provide utility to the team and keep ourselves alive.

 

And then there are defensive cooldowns such as Reactive Shield and Adrenaline Rush, a joke skill that may be.

 

That's far more than 4 skills. Any Gunnery Commando that just spams Grav Round will run out of ammo in 10 seconds.

 

Given that most of these comments may or may not still be when you could only spam grav round... I don't play a single class with only 4 buttons. I really do like electro net because the classes I had most problems with are melee classes. I love the 4 people group heal as it gives me utility and overall... I'm finally somehow happy with my mercenary and commando (I've got both).

 

The thread title is a joke as DPS Powertechs haven been valid before and putting out hugh numbers. Now they got a nerf and people make it sound like this class was never ever valid in pvp?

[TonyDragonflame]

Assault vanguards/pyrotechs must have their flame thrower on 30 m range, if they suppose like dot ranged spec like madness sorcs. Plus knockback with root like snipers and sorcs have.

 

Without burst, they brings nothing to team play as dot dps - on par with dirty fighting scoundrels, but at least scoundrels have their roll and vanish for escape...

[Xarimath]

Let me translate the above post:

 

"Dear BW,

 

You allowed me to play a class that could top the damage charts by only using TWO buttons, but now I can't do that any more. I'm really, really mad that other classes can now out DPS me. Please nerf those classes and buff me.

 

This.

[cashogy_reborn]

you can top the charts using ONE BUTTON. post warzone scoreboard has little to no impact on balance. or at least it shouldnt.

 

powertech pyro had a very low skill cap. which means that bad players could do decently with it. but it also had a low skill ceiling; it excelled at one thing and once you got good at that you were pretty much at your peak. in ranked PvP, it was balanced quite well: high burst output, low defensive capability.

 

there was no real need for a nerf, other than to appease the bads that populate regs.

[stendarrs]

Given that most of these comments may or may not still be when you could only spam grav round... I don't play a single class with only 4 buttons. I really do like electro net because the classes I had most problems with are melee classes. I love the 4 people group heal as it gives me utility and overall... I'm finally somehow happy with my mercenary and commando (I've got both).

 

The thread title is a joke as DPS Powertechs haven been valid before and putting out hugh numbers. Now they got a nerf and people make it sound like this class was never ever valid in pvp?

 

Of course it was valid in PvP before the nerf, what joker would think or imply otherwise? The vanguard nerf would be the equivalent of taking a smasher, cutting his smash damage in half while making it single target damage. They would disappear from the game...period. Sorta like vanguards. The thread title and tone is almost an exact copy of the commando/merc thread that has been around for months. I don't understand people's logic that because a class has been effective that it needs to be nerfed. Anyone having trouble defeating a "2 button" vanguard needs to learn to play the game. The class worked fine as it was. It had high potential but could be easily shut down due to lousy defensive CD's. The range got nerfed (rightly so imo) and it was performing well. Now it's just a lame mellee dot class with a little utility. I think I'd rather have a watchman sentinel than a vanguard at this point. It's not QQ, it's just the truth. I even stated this previously, the trooper level 5 sticky grenade does higher burst damage than the top skill of the assault tree. Please think about that long and hard before posting anything else regarding VG's and PT's.

 

And just for the record, any vanguard worth anything would have been using hammer shot, ion pulse, HIB, sticky grenade, assault plastique, single target taunt, area taunt, incendiary round (situational), cryo grenade, AOE stun, harpoon, mortar volley, stockstrike, hold the line, shoulder turret (new ability), reload, reserve cell, adrenaline rush, reactive shield, stealth scan, explosive surge (occasionally), interrupt and probably a few other abilities that I can't recall off the top of my head as I'm not in front of my UI. So, let's just get over the whole "2 button" BS, I know some players like that and their numbers are crap and they are basically free kills so you should be sad that they are no longer playing their "easy mode" class.

[Aelaias]

They still haven't commented on whether the IP crit damage bonus skill is bugged. All I know is that my IP crits for 3+k in tactics and the same 2k in assault as before. Makes the entire spec completely pointless. Tactics is nice though, decent single target damage with good mobility, at least sub-55. Bad healers are surprised to see vanguards quickly shaving off their hp until the final sticky/hib combo. The only thing the spec needs is a skill to reduce hib cooldown.

[xsyst]

Good old times with my lovely vanguard, miss ya <3

http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3173/ftqb7syt_jpg.htm

http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3156/d74cdf7a_jpg.htm

http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3140/9mxvtinf_jpg.htm

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-188848...90333.jpg.html

[Taankjr]

Good old times with my lovely vanguard, miss ya <3

http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3173/ftqb7syt_jpg.htm

http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3156/d74cdf7a_jpg.htm

http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3140/9mxvtinf_jpg.htm

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-188848...90333.jpg.html

 

Hier können Sie kostenlos Bilder hochladen und online verfügbar machen! -- the last link says so

Edited May 14, 2013 by Taankjr

[Baedwulf]

I honestly hadn't touched my PT since 2.0 and played a few games this morning...

 

I now get the complaints and really... am I wrong or does it come down to one thing?

 

Crit chance and the changes to crit in 2.0

 

If there was something in the pyro tree that say... increased crit chances to somewhere near where they were pre 2.0 couldn't it be as simple as that to make PT DPS viable again.

 

And I didn't read much of this thread but to those who whine about "that 2 button class ruled for months"... that kind of mentality does not justify a class not having a valuable spec.

 

While the tank spec has improved greatly, jugs and sins are simply just better PvP tanks in most people's opinion and BOTH of the DPS specs are bottom tier.

[NathanielStarr]

The class has just as attacks as other classes, but fewer good ones. The class lacks any utility, is largely immobile and has no escape...why was it nerfed again? The only thing it had going for it was the potential for high burst, but if the fight went on past the first few seconds the PT was usually on the losing end.

 

I really believe it's a serious example of the Devs favoring a the Jedi classes and they complained about PTs. They get whatever they want, are immune to nerfs even though they need them and they have huge utility.

[Laforet]

While im not advocating that a spec is nerfed to inability, seeing this PYRO ROFLTECH players complain that PT has no utility or no survivability and that they were FINE at 1.7 makes me wonder what kind of people played this joke of a spec.

 

Seriously guys, wanting your spec to be competitive = fair, but get some perspective.

 

PT UTILITY = AoE TAUNT, SINGLE TARGET TAUNT. MINIMAL RESOURCE COST, OUT OF GCD. NO NEED TO CHANGE CELLS. GRAPPLE. STEALTH SCAN (learn how to use it plx).

 

PT DEFENSES = HEAVY ARMOR (not the best defense but still better than cloth), 25% DMG REDUCTION FOR 12 SECONDS WITH ROOT BREAK VIA DEGAUSS (tier 1 defensive CD), HP REGEN CD (crap CD pre 2.0 but its actually very good now). NEW MOBILITY CD (pretty good). VERY GOOD KITING ABILITIES (unlimited slow via auto shot spam with root break couples well now with the new mobility cd you have).

 

Seriously people, you were not fine at 1.7. I think its fair that you want the devs to reacess the nerfs but.

 

Get some perspective.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Laforet

[ryniloym]

try playing better

 

lololol

[foxmob]

The class has just as attacks as other classes, but fewer good ones. The class lacks any utility, .

 

don't say things like this. they have utility. that's not even disputable. and their utility is much better than their ranged cousins. tauns, pulls, and changing stance to guard and increase survivability while stalling. this isn't nearly the best utility in the game, but it's good utility. it hasn't changed since launch, but it's still good.

 

their usefulness as a dps, however, is not very much. they're a 10m dot spec that can be cleansed by the vast majority of healing ACs in the game. and they have worse survivability than any other "dot class" including said ranged cousins.

[OldSpiceSwag]

While im not advocating that a spec is nerfed to inability, seeing this PYRO ROFLTECH players complain that PT has no utility or no survivability and that they were FINE at 1.7 makes me wonder what kind of people played this joke of a spec.

 

Seriously guys, wanting your spec to be competitive = fair, but get some perspective.

 

PT UTILITY = AoE TAUNT, SINGLE TARGET TAUNT. MINIMAL RESOURCE COST, OUT OF GCD. NO NEED TO CHANGE CELLS. GRAPPLE. STEALTH SCAN (learn how to use it plx).

 

PT DEFENSES = HEAVY ARMOR (not the best defense but still better than cloth), 25% DMG REDUCTION FOR 12 SECONDS WITH ROOT BREAK VIA DEGAUSS (tier 1 defensive CD), HP REGEN CD (crap CD pre 2.0 but its actually very good now). NEW MOBILITY CD (pretty good). VERY GOOD KITING ABILITIES (unlimited slow via auto shot spam with root break couples well now with the new mobility cd you have).

 

Seriously people, you were not fine at 1.7. I think its fair that you want the devs to reacess the nerfs but.

 

Get some perspective.

 

teams brought pts for their hard hitting single target burst, which they excelled at. the burst is gone, and so is their viability. they weren't brought for grapple or stealth scan, those things were accessory. they were fine at 1.7, as most of the defensive cooldowns you just mentioned weren't implemented until 2.0...and still those aren't anywhere near marauder cds nor do they compensate AT ALL for the damage nerfs. plus, their main way of shortening the long *** cd on their main defence (pyros anyway) just got given to ap. hold the line would be a nice kiting ability...if they were a ranged dps class, but they need to be up in their targets' face to do damage and thus kiting out of damage hurts their damage dealing capacity. ik its necessary to kite but the class wasn't designed to do that.

[Laforet]

teams brought pts for their hard hitting single target burst, which they excelled at. the burst is gone, and so is their viability. they weren't brought for grapple or stealth scan, those things were accessory. they were fine at 1.7, as most of the defensive cooldowns you just mentioned weren't implemented until 2.0...and still those aren't anywhere near marauder cds nor do they compensate AT ALL for the damage nerfs. plus, their main way of shortening the long *** cd on their main defence (pyros anyway) just got given to ap. hold the line would be a nice kiting ability...if they were a ranged dps class, but they need to be up in their targets' face to do damage and thus kiting out of damage hurts their damage dealing capacity. ik its necessary to kite but the class wasn't designed to do that.

 

If we are talking dps burst is something that has to be in the equation. That doesnt make 1.7 pyro fine.

 

Have you ever been trained by 1.7 deception? Man those guys could hurt like insane, as hard as pyro if not harder. Why no one ever took deception to rateds? You couldnt rely on them. If all pyro had was burst you wouldnt go to rateds, people prolly would take MM sniper and MOAR MARAS.

 

1.7 pyro has faceroll burst that anyone would execute coupled with tons of utility that can could turn a game around.

 

Ive played with a pyrotech since 1.2 to 1.7 in a rated team, ive seen enemy pulls rule huttball, ive seen incredible enemy pull kill setup like pulling a healer to the middle of our team and globaling him. When i was in trouble he would taunt me.

 

Ive seen stealth scan win alderaan civil war because he took the enemy sin out of stealth and they couldnt delay home node cap while the other team didnt have stealth scan and got delayed by our shadow for almost a minute. Stealth scan free win.

 

The problem is that dealing damage as a powertech was so mind numbing that most (not all, just most) people that played the spec turned into a drooling facerroller and now cant understand the spec as a whole because the faceroll burst is gone.

 

The nerfs were severe, overdid prolly, but maybe now its the time to understand your spec as a whole and use all your skills instead of just flameburst / rail shot 2 button spam because that kind of crap is not coming back i assure you.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Laforet

[Le_Spiff]

Having made 2 PTs and having played all 3 trees I would say the PT has been on a slow steady decline. Not having the tremendous burst DPS other classes now have, has somewhat taken us down a notch. But, with a good PVP team or premade PTs still hurt lots. That's without hitting 7k crits. I'd be ok if we got low 6k crits from rail shot (Just a bit up from 5k++).

 

(This may have already occured as I am currently leveling a sin don't kill me for info fail)

 

To play devil's advocate, we do wear heavy armor and now have basic increased mobility coming in the form of hydraulic overrides across all trees. The only reason why we don't last long is because Pyrotechs PTs have been the most focused down targets after healers since the day people figured out a Pyrotech was the business (Almost a year ago). Which makes sense, kill the other team's offense and defense becomes easier.

 

All we need is a tiny tweak. Not a big one. Right now Pyros function more as support DPS in melee range rather than the big time single target destroyers. In the end, this works just as well since shoulder cannon fires even while stunned and ignoring GCD, giving us greater overall utility.

 

I figure a slight increase to crit 6k (For Pyros) and a bigger buff to AP (Additional 2% added to the elemental and internal damage of HEGC) spec tree would be great for the class. Thermal detonator being a DOT isn't a bad deal since you can drop sticky grenade and thermal detonator on the same target, light them up with a flame burst then ruin them with a rail shot (As I am writing this I am reminded that the 4 attacks combined do sometimes amount to more than 12k damage in the span of a very short time).

 

But for all things considered PTs aren't far off from being the gods we once were.