PT/Vanguard What to do

[Terrorshard]

I have played Vanguard since launch, almost entirely Assault. If you play on POT5 you may recognize me. Since 2.0 the overall changes to the game coupled with the heavy handed nerfs leave this class just not feeling right.

 

Things I have noticed since 2.0

 

1) Healers are very difficult to take down. Especially Operatives. Since I don't play every class I'm not sure how, but healers seem to be much stronger than they were.

 

2) Burst and TTK across the board has been increased. HP pools have gone up but damage seems to have outpaced that. 6.5k - 9k hits are not uncommon now.

 

3) Vanguard is the only exception to this rule, where the TTK has decreased since before 2.0. Vanguard got double dipped a bit here.

 

I have been lurking on the forums and rarely posting since the patch. I have seen both sides of the PT/Vanguard is broken and L2P good ones still wreck. I'm somewhere in between this. I feel like I am close to the same in power level from 50, but everyone gained 5 levels.

 

I won't debate the current state of the game, but as it stands the Vanguard seems like the odd man out now.

 

I think the Vanguard in its current state needs a few changes and additions to compete again at the level on the other classes.

 

1) Railshot/HIB needs a damage increase. It also needs to not miss/not be a ranged attack anymore. It does not hit very hard. It doesn't seem to have gone up at all since 2.0. The nerf lowered its armor pen, but it rarely hits for more than 5.5k tops even with a relic proc. This seems unacceptable given its ability to be blocked/dodged and to miss. We also invest many skill points just getting it to that damage level.

 

2) We need a 50% healing debuff - If you plan on just making us a dot class then we need a strong healing debuff. Healing is just too strong now, we need some kind of tool to be able to deal with it. This would at least give us a purpose even if our damage isn't very good.

 

3) Reactive Shield and Adrenaline Rush needs its cool down lowered. It is all we have, and it isn't very good. TTK is high right now and we already have the weakest defensive cool downs in the game. If we have low damage it isn't acceptable to also have low survivability.

 

4) Shoulder Cannon needs to be reworked. It is clunky and not terrible effective at anything other than preventing a node cap while stunned (within its crappy 10m distance). It has a long cooldown and requires you to mash the thing for minimal DPS increase.

 

5) Buff High Energy Cell - You nerfed Plasma cell by 50% and it is still better. That should tell you something. Make it 8%. Then add 3% from the trait that currently adds 1% (a joke)

 

For those of you who demonized PT/Vanguard for some really strong burst prior to the patch. Right now we aren't in a good place.

[Ottoattack]

My main dps was Pyro Tech. After a couple of games in 2.0, I retired her. I can not kill healers or enemy high priority dps. Most other classes got superior damage and survivability. I am now a mediocre PvE dpser Edited May 7, 2013 by Ottoattack

[Luckyluzi]

at first they should fix the 30% critdamage bug for ionpulse in the assault tree

[Terrorshard]

I'm just trying to figure out what went wrong. Certain skills don't feel like they scaled at all with 5 levels. HIB hits for about the same as it did before the patch. I have 2600 aim, max expertise, and HIB rarely hits 6k. My sentinel who has 600 less mainstat hits far harder.

[Terrorshard]

at first they should fix the 30% critdamage bug for ionpulse in the assault tree

 

This is true. I still think HIB/Railshot needs something. For being an attack than can be blocked/dodged and can miss....and so for so many skill points invested in it, it just doesn't do the damage other skills from other classes do.

 

I feel like we invest a lot of wasted points now. With the plasma cell nerf, it didn't just nerf itself. It nerfs every point we spent buffing it in our trees as well.

[Trancedzero]

BUFF ME PLEASE! ahahahaahahahaahahaha cant wait the power i have achived already with a buff, damn dev's increase combustible tick damage atleast!

[Venjirai]

Simple fixes:

• Increase the damage of Plasma Cell by 50%
  
• Give Assault a skill, high in the skilltree which increases the critical hit chance of Plasma Cell, HIB and Assault Plastique by 15%.
  

[Capote]

Honestly I just gave up from my PT and started to focus on my other alts. It's impressive how some fotm smashers (which seems to be 1/2~3/4 of every single wz) hits for 8-9k aoe damage and PT's highest hit does not break the 5k line (not to mention he cant jump and has very few defensive CDs).

 

Yeah the PT was pretty strong pre-2.0 (more than it should, I agree), but imo it's very amateur to nerf him so much and ignore some other classes.

[UncleOst]

Wutsup shard.

 

I've fought against you lots, you are definitely a force to reckon with. I don't have a trooper so I'll stick with hunter terminology.

 

Long story short, I'll say again that shoulder cannon should remain exclusive to middle tree, and pyro's generic CGC dps potential should be increased. Thermal detonator should have the dot placed before the explosion, not after. I, like the rest of you have found use of shoulder cannon, but I think it's actually a joke. When calculating/balancing the dps potentials, it's actually hurting us more than helping. I'm done developing my jug so I'll be heating things up alot now on my PT. see ya out there.

[Morpurgo]

Mothballed mine. Only way to play now would be by going tank but I hate playing tanks.

Doesnt really matter anyway since blatant bolster exploiting is still going on with no end in sight. PvP has mutated into lazy PvE player's instant gratification.

Time to move on, it's quite clear into what direction this game is going.

[Thefriar]

I put my PT away after 1.6 and went back to it for just a bit in 2.0. There is no doubt PTs needed a nerf Pre 2.0 as I would just melt people but just like the op/smuggler nerf in the opening months of SWTOR, Bioware went too far.

 

I play an infil shadow now and I pretty much laugh at the PT class now. I would agree they need a small buff to damage or a healing debuff.

[SlimsPicken]

tank.

[Monterone]

Everything you guys are listing as comparison with sents simply doesn't come off a an issue with pts but an issue with sents.

 

I understand everyone wants to hit as hard as Rage does, but that will not solve anything. PTs are in a great spot compared to sorcerers for example; in fact pyro is still leaps and bounds above a madness sorc, for burst damage and for survivability.

 

Should we all get buffed up to be like Rage or should Rage be balanced to do comparable damage to other trees?

[Morpurgo]

PTs are in a great spot compared to sorcerers for example; in fact pyro is still leaps and bounds above a madness sorc, for burst damage and for survivability.

 

Nobody is playing madness sorc anymore. Lightning can burn people down much better now. 1v1 with PT vs Lightning Sorc I would not give a two cents for the PT.

[I_Sithed_MyPants]

make a sniper or a marauder, eventually when they see people stop playing pt dps, they'll hopefully realise they made a mistake in balance.

[foxmob]

5) Buff High Energy Cell - You nerfed Plasma cell by 50% and it is still better. That should tell you something. Make it 8%. Then add 3% from the trait that currently adds 1% (a joke)

 

For those of you who demonized PT/Vanguard for some really strong burst prior to the patch. Right now we aren't in a good place.

^this.

 

this is a great idea. my first toon was tactics. I just like the sound of it. however, it's not a viable spec. ppl are tired of plasma cell. they're tired of being burned down by it. they're tired of mashing the same 5 buttons. commando doesn't really use plasma anymore. gunnery is their big boy these days...with a solid healer. let's give tactics its time to shine! I'm all for this. let's do eet!

[foxmob]

tank.

 

yeah, cuz they're not easily the worst tank in the game.

[Monterone]

Nobody is playing madness sorc anymore. Lightning can burn people down much better now. 1v1 with PT vs Lightning Sorc I would not give a two cents for the PT.

 

So you're saying madness is bad and shouldn't played?

 

Couldn't you tell yourself the same for pyro then, just play AP.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Monterone

[foxmob]

Everything you guys are listing as comparison with sents simply doesn't come off a an issue with pts but an issue with sents.

 

I understand everyone wants to hit as hard as Rage does, but that will not solve anything. PTs are in a great spot compared to sorcerers for example; in fact pyro is still leaps and bounds above a madness sorc, for burst damage and for survivability.

 

Should we all get buffed up to be like Rage or should Rage be balanced to do comparable damage to other trees?

however, lightning now hits like a truck. same as commandos. so you see, the other "weak" ACs still have at least one solid spec to turn to. otherwise, though, I agree. it's similar to the situation that madness was in. except madness was more clearly designed to cc and dot whereas vg looks like a ballistic missle that...dots.

[KamikazeKommando]

whereas vg looks like a ballistic missle that...dots.

 

I lol'd, quite srsly... sad but true. Sigh.

[Morpurgo]

So you're saying madness is bad and shouldn't played?

 

Couldn't you tell yourself the same for pyro then, just play AP.

 

That's the problem. Madness sorcs can easily switch to lightning but for Vanguard/PT there simply is NO viable dps spec anymore.

[Le_Spiff]

When my mercenary does 6k to 7k crit on the heat-seeker missiles and my PT struggles to get 5k from rail shot or thermal detonator, somethings broken. Especially if i can crit 7k and heal 150k and dps 450k in a single warzone with my merc.

 

I'm all for a buff to the AP/Tactics, I've been saying that since 1.2. It's an awesome tree with so much more potential if we had more percentage added to internal and elemental damage from using the HEGC.

 

Please fix BW.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Le_Spiff

[ChickenWangs]

Wutsup shard.

 

I've fought against you lots, you are definitely a force to reckon with. I don't have a trooper so I'll stick with hunter terminology.

 

Long story short, I'll say again that shoulder cannon should remain exclusive to middle tree, and pyro's generic CGC dps potential should be increased. Thermal detonator should have the dot placed before the explosion, not after. I, like the rest of you have found use of shoulder cannon, but I think it's actually a joke. When calculating/balancing the dps potentials, it's actually hurting us more than helping. I'm done developing my jug so I'll be heating things up alot now on my PT. see ya out there.

 

I am going to have to disagree with you that shoulder cannon needs to be moved to the middle tree only. Currently assault plastic is absolutely useless in both PVP and PVE. On the other hand Shoulder cannon is very useful for AS vanguards in PVE. It should remain as is.

 

I personally believe that vanguards need their armor pen for HIB back. That would solve many DPS woes. Center tree could also use a buff of HEC becoming a 10% increase in elemental and internal damage instead of just 5%.

 

For those who put screen shots up of Vanguards who do a lot of damage (700-800k) I have done it and let me tell you it's a bunch of bs damage. The best way to do damage now is to use mortar volley, pulse wave, and explosive surge in tandem to create a "false" amount of damage. The abilities are very weak on a target; however, used together they can hit very many targets. It won't hurt an enemy that much, but it will make your stats look good.

[Glower]

Reroll to middle tree.

http://www.thatsnotdelicious.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/neutral-its-something-l-copy.jpg

Edited May 8, 2013 by Glower

[Marisblood]

I have played Vanguard since launch, almost entirely Assault. If you play on POT5 you may recognize me. Since 2.0 the overall changes to the game coupled with the heavy handed nerfs leave this class just not feeling right.

 

Things I have noticed since 2.0

 

1) Healers are very difficult to take down. Especially Operatives. Since I don't play every class I'm not sure how, but healers seem to be much stronger than they were.

 

2) Burst and TTK across the board has been increased. HP pools have gone up but damage seems to have outpaced that. 6.5k - 9k hits are not uncommon now.

 

3) Vanguard is the only exception to this rule, where the TTK has decreased since before 2.0. Vanguard got double dipped a bit here.

 

I have been lurking on the forums and rarely posting since the patch. I have seen both sides of the PT/Vanguard is broken and L2P good ones still wreck. I'm somewhere in between this. I feel like I am close to the same in power level from 50, but everyone gained 5 levels.

 

I won't debate the current state of the game, but as it stands the Vanguard seems like the odd man out now.

 

I think the Vanguard in its current state needs a few changes and additions to compete again at the level on the other classes.

 

1) Railshot/HIB needs a damage increase. It also needs to not miss/not be a ranged attack anymore. It does not hit very hard. It doesn't seem to have gone up at all since 2.0. The nerf lowered its armor pen, but it rarely hits for more than 5.5k tops even with a relic proc. This seems unacceptable given its ability to be blocked/dodged and to miss. We also invest many skill points just getting it to that damage level.

 

2) We need a 50% healing debuff - If you plan on just making us a dot class then we need a strong healing debuff. Healing is just too strong now, we need some kind of tool to be able to deal with it. This would at least give us a purpose even if our damage isn't very good.

 

3) Reactive Shield and Adrenaline Rush needs its cool down lowered. It is all we have, and it isn't very good. TTK is high right now and we already have the weakest defensive cool downs in the game. If we have low damage it isn't acceptable to also have low survivability.

 

4) Shoulder Cannon needs to be reworked. It is clunky and not terrible effective at anything other than preventing a node cap while stunned (within its crappy 10m distance). It has a long cooldown and requires you to mash the thing for minimal DPS increase.

 

5) Buff High Energy Cell - You nerfed Plasma cell by 50% and it is still better. That should tell you something. Make it 8%. Then add 3% from the trait that currently adds 1% (a joke)

 

For those of you who demonized PT/Vanguard for some really strong burst prior to the patch. Right now we aren't in a good place.

 

Enjoy and L2P. We were infected more then 1 year with PT/VG spamming 2 buttons. You have 30% healing, shield who make you almost untouchable ( i saw skilled PT crossing fire in Huttball taking 0 dmg almost), u can use a med pack, so basically u can recover more then 18k Hp easy mode (if you have 30k HP). Just stop using 2 buttons. Only skilled PT/VG are still there doing more dmg then classes that you consider here are OP.