The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[slafko]

Out comes Quinn, and the tank guards him!! I nearly spat out my drink, I was laughing so much.

Pure gold.

[slafko]

Btw, does anyone know what's up with Shadows/Assassins moving around like they have 1000 rats in their pants?

They could be going after that acrobatic fighting style demonstrated by young mistress Satele in the "Return" cinematic trailer. I know that's what I do when playing my shadow tank. That double-bladed lightsaber is practically begging to be wielded by a Force-using gymnast. Too bad Shadow's animations do not reflect this.

[BlackflameSeven]

 

I once heard a definition of insanity along the lines of "keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

 

 

Then my professors at university must think I'm insane. I once had to hand in a project with notes saying 'Please compile the code, run it, watch it fail, recompile it IMMEDIATELY, and watch it work perfectly. And I'd love to know why...' Almost the first thing they told us was if it didn't run first time, don't bother trying again, but they were lying!

[Dras_Keto]

I don't see how a tank sacrificing himself enables the group to kill a boss. Especially when you take into account the small fact of the tank being the only thing between the group and the boss.

 

It sounds like that group didnt like him, knew they didnt need him and just let him die. But hes new enough, ignorant enough, or just delusional enough to think that he contributed something.

 

There are a lot more poeple these days who dont seem to get tanking. It doesnt help that the only instance most people see is KDY where you can "tank" with zero consequences.

[Halinalle]

There are a lot more poeple these days who dont seem to get tanking. It doesnt help that the only instance most people see is KDY where you can "tank" with zero consequences.

 

I've "tanked" suppression droids few times with Sorcerer because everyone else ignored adds. We all know how that will end always.

[ZentheSecond]

I don't see how a tank sacrificing himself enables the group to kill a boss. Especially when you take into account the small fact of the tank being the only thing between the group and the boss.

 

In some phases it no longer matters to have a tank. Dread Council last phase comes to mind, when all 4 jump to the middle of the room. Tanks are less useful there then Dps as everyone is taking damage and you need to kill the four of them before the damage overwhelms the healers.

[Dras_Keto]

So apparently I wasnt blatantly obvious enough..

 

If you queue up for KDY and you have the Tank role selected, you will be in the group as a tank whether you are or not, whether you have any idea what youre doing or not. Unlike someone who has the heal role indicator but not healing, most people dont care if a supposed tank is a tank or not.

 

And, even if they are actually in a tanking stance and spec, the overwhelming likelihood is they arent doing their job properly. If its a vanguard, they are nearly always standing back at 30 meters using Full Auto, hammer shots, explosive round and mortar volley. If its a shadow they run around with TKT and hard casting mind crush. If its a guardian, they just jump and start waving a glowstick around incoherently. And no one calls them on it. And because KDY is so easy, the group just bullrushes its way through their inadequacy (most of he time).

 

Then after quite a while of derping about they hit 55. They have completely the wrong idea about what constitutes tanking. And we get even more people to talk about on this thread.

[Cox_The_Beast]

I don't see how a tank sacrificing himself enables the group to kill a boss. Especially when you take into account the small fact of the tank being the only thing between the group and the boss.

 

Well, if the boss is low enough and the dps can annihilate the (eventual) adds fast enough, which was the case back then, it's not much of a problem, really. And that's the only kind of situation where I'd take it into consideration.

 

Now, double boss like EC or Jarg and Sorno? No way!

 

It sounds like that group didnt like him, knew they didnt need him and just let him die. But hes new enough, ignorant enough, or just delusional enough to think that he contributed something.

 

There are a lot more poeple these days who dont seem to get tanking. It doesnt help that the only instance most people see is KDY where you can "tank" with zero consequences.

 

I'm not that new, actually, I've been here since F2P went live, which was quite some time ago. I ran all FP in SM and most of them in HM back when Tionese was the first endgame set. I worked my way towards Columi and halfway through Rakata before they changed everything, so I think I know a thing or two about tanking.

Yeah, I've been away for a time, and I'm not that great of a player, that much I know. But still, well, I try to look on the bright side in everything. Even bad groups, people calling me names and others telling me I'm useless. I try to see if it was my fault and if it was I try to work over it. Still, no heals are not my fault, I think.

 

As a side note, I ran KDY only on my dps characters, so never actually tanked it. My main characters were 55 already far before that, so luckily for me I never needed to grind it. Perhaps I tanked it once or twice on my Assassin, but I don't think that counts much, really.

 

About this reply, well, I personally don't like the tone, because when I read it it feels like saying I'm crazy or something. May be just me though, so no need for an answer or something the like.

 

But let's not talk about my story anymore, ok? I was just telling a weird story that happened to me, not trying to make people angry.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Cox_The_Beast

[BobFredJohn]

So apparently I wasnt blatantly obvious enough..

 

If you queue up for KDY and you have the Tank role selected, you will be in the group as a tank whether you are or not, whether you have any idea what youre doing or not. Unlike someone who has the heal role indicator but not healing, most people dont care if a supposed tank is a tank or not.

 

And, even if they are actually in a tanking stance and spec, the overwhelming likelihood is they arent doing their job properly. If its a vanguard, they are nearly always standing back at 30 meters using Full Auto, hammer shots, explosive round and mortar volley. If its a shadow they run around with TKT and hard casting mind crush. If its a guardian, they just jump and start waving a glowstick around incoherently. And no one calls them on it. And because KDY is so easy, the group just bullrushes its way through their inadequacy (most of he time).

 

Then after quite a while of derping about they hit 55. They have completely the wrong idea about what constitutes tanking. And we get even more people to talk about on this thread.

 

And thereby, lots more funny stories for people like me who are addicted to this thread

_______________________________

 

And on the subject of "If you dont read a guide your a hinderance to the group", reading a guide makes very little difference to how you perform in ops if you just use some sense, for example:

 

TL;DR There are no tactics in SM ops (which IMO is where people should go to learn, not read a guide then leap straight into HM) which cannot be solved by a "monkey see, monkey do" attitude and an understanding of mechanics that everyone comes across when lvling in FP's.

 

My first ever character on this game having had no previous experience on any game with the trinity thingy. I was a lvl 16 sniper on Hammer station and at final boss the tank never turned the boss away from group. I decided to stand behind him and remember this aspect of boss fights. When I then came to lvling my jugg tank I would automatically turn the boss away from the group as soon as I had pulled "just in case." Now I assume for most bosses it makes no difference, not that I know which ones as I just do it on all of them. IMO turning the boss away from the group should be habit for a tank, any tank for whom this is a "special tactic" is a bad tank (I also find turning the boss away makes it so much easier to see if I have lost aggro, as it turns around).

 

When it comes to things like adds, anyone who does not know dps should be taking down adds ASAP is clearly a bad dps, any decent player knows this without needing a guide (although which is more essential, kill priority or kill order is often disputed in the guild im with, but horses for courses, if we beat the boss then what does it matter which order the adds died?)

 

I wont even mention (oops I just have) people who stand in red circles then, when they die say "Dulfy never mentioned droids running in a blowing themselves up". Perhaps Dulfy also expected people in ops to have learnt through their time lvling to 55 that circles at your feet = bad (if you need a guide to tell you this, you aren't ready for ops IMO).

 

As for special mechanics, for example, "ooh whats the boss doing now" and I see everyone else in the group is moving to glowing areas behind rocks. Well "monkey see, monkey do" is often enough to get completely new people through an SM op, allowing them to learn it without a guide then move on to HM (I agree running into HM having never done SM is a nuisance).

Edited July 18, 2014 by BobFredJohn

[Irongut]

My first ever character on this game having had no previous experience on any game with the trinity thingy. I was a lvl 16 sniper on Hammer station and at final boss the tank never turned the boss away from group. I decided to stand behind him and remember this aspect of boss fights. When I then came to lvling my jugg tank I would automatically turn the boss away from the group as soon as I had pulled "just in case." Now I assume for most bosses it makes no difference, not that I know which ones as I just do it on all of them. IMO turning the boss away from the group should be habit for a tank, any tank for whom this is a "special tactic" is a bad tank (I also find turning the boss away makes it so much easier to see if I have lost aggro, as it turns around).

 

Like you I always turn the boss away from the group when tanking. There are enough bosses where it is a good idea that you might as well do it with all of them so it becomes a habit. Yet almost none of the tanks I see in PUGs do it, even when they really should. To the extent that 9 times out of 10 my Sentinel will leap in to combat and move to the back of the boss in an identical move to the one my Jug uses to turn them. It gets me out of any cone AOE attacks and makes it easier to see if I've grabbed threat so I can use my defensive cooldowns. But if the tank would just turn them in the first place I wouldn't need to!

Edited July 18, 2014 by Irongut

[BigBreakfast]

And on the subject of "If you dont read a guide your a hinderance to the group", reading a guide makes very little difference to how you perform in ops if you just use some sense

 

Seriously? All your examples are mistakes that people make REGARDLESS IF THEY KNOW THE MECHANICS OR READ A GUIDE. You're ridiculously implying that reading guides is the CAUSE of their mistakes. It's like you see someone stand in an inferno and think, "he only stood there cuz he read Dulfy. If he had just not read it, he'd be fine". Uh WRONG.

 

Yes, ok, it's obviously easy to use the common sense thing to explain damage telegraphs. HMM i'm standing in a big red circle and dying, maybe I should move. No, obviously, you don't need a guide for that. Obviously, obviously, obviously. But let's look at TFB or SnV.

 

Do you immediately know, using your Stephen Hawking logic, that you need to walk through green circles to get rid of Doom? Do you know immediately know that Kel'sara, or even Sunder, will knock the crap out of you when they focus on you? Do you immediately know what the firebug is going to do to you, or that if the snipers aren't taken out they will deal massive damage? Do you immediately know to kill the single ad at Terror but avoid the multiple ones? Do you know, at Kephess, to click the tower when you have Nanites, and break the channel only when he's near? Do you know to get rid of Kephess's lightning thing by running into more lightning?

 

No to all. You may LEARN after you DIE, but are you really insisting that everyone goes through that learning process in a 16 man raid? You can learn anything with enough deaths, but deaths are what people generally try to avoid. The time to experiment is not during an ops.

 

And you say you learn by watching? How'd you know someone with nanites at a tower broke the channel? You're busying tanking/healing/dps. And what if you're the first in Olok's shop to get the credit token? How do you know to click on the screen? And if you do, Blue or Yellow?

 

And what would you do in an ops you've never done? The leader says, "Has anyone not done this before" and you say, "Me, but don't tell me anything about the fights". You'd die at every fight. Oh, learn by watching others? How's that any different from reading a guide? Maybe THEY learned by reading a guide, so why'r you following them?

Edited July 18, 2014 by BigBreakfast

[Adaliaya]

Seriously? All your examples are mistakes that people make REGARDLESS IF THEY KNOW THE MECHANICS OR READ A GUIDE. You're ridiculously implying that reading guides is the CAUSE of their mistakes. It's like you see someone stand in an inferno and think, "he only stood there cuz he read Dulfy. If he had just not read it, he'd be fine". Uh WRONG.

 

Yes, ok, it's obviously easy to use the common sense thing to explain damage telegraphs. HMM i'm standing in a big red circle and dying, maybe I should move. No, obviously, you don't need a guide for that. Obviously, obviously, obviously. But let's look at TFB or SnV.

 

Do you immediately know, using your Stephen Hawking logic, that you need to walk through green circles to get rid of Doom? Do you know immediately know that Kel'sara, or even Sunder, will knock the crap out of you when they focus on you? Do you immediately know what the firebug is going to do to you, or that if the snipers aren't taken out they will deal massive damage? Do you immediately know to kill the single ad at Terror but avoid the multiple ones? Do you know, at Kephess, to click the tower when you have Nanites, and break the channel only when he's near? Do you know to get rid of Kephess's lightning thing by running into more lightning?

 

No to all. You may LEARN after you DIE, but are you really insisting that everyone goes through that learning process in a 16 man raid? You can learn anything with enough deaths, but deaths are what people generally try to avoid. The time to experiment is not during an ops.

 

And you say you learn by watching? How'd you know someone with nanites at a tower broke the channel? You're busying tanking/healing/dps. And what if you're the first in Olok's shop to get the credit token? How do you know to click on the screen? And if you do, Blue or Yellow?

 

And what would you do in an ops you've never done? The leader says, "Has anyone not done this before" and you say, "Me, but don't tell me anything about the fights". You'd die at every fight. Oh, learn by watching others? How's that any different from reading a guide? Maybe THEY learned by reading a guide, so why'r you following them?

Quite far this. Of course everyone have to have their first times and its just positive. However, I at least try to read guides beforehand because knowing basics from guide > knowing nothing. I want to do as well as I can, and I would feel uncomfortable if I had to go to fight blindfolded not knowing what's to be expected

[BobFredJohn]

You're ridiculously implying that reading guides is the CAUSE of their mistakes. It's like you see someone stand in an inferno and think, "he only stood there cuz he read Dulfy. If he had just not read it, he'd be fine".

 

Do you know, immediately using your Stephen Hawking logic, that you need to walk through green circles to get rid of Doom? Do you know, immediately, that Kel'sara, or even Sunder, will knock the crap out of you when they focus on you? Do you know, immediately, what the firebug is going to do to you, or that if the snipers aren't taken out they will deal massive damage? Do you know, immediately, to kill the single ad at Terror but avoid the multiple ones? Do you know, at Kephess, to click the tower when you have Nanites, and break the channel only when he's near? Do you know to get rid of Kephess's lightning thing by running into more lightning?

 

And you say you learn by watching? How'd you know someone with nanites at a tower broke the channel? You're busying tanking/healing/dps. And what if you're the first in Olok's shop to get the credit token? How do you know to click on the screen? And if you do, Blue or Yellow?

 

And what would you do in an ops you've never done? The leader says, "Has anyone not done this before" and you say, "Me, but don't tell me anything about the fights".

 

Please read all of what I write before commenting. I never said reading a guide forces you to stand in fire. I said that people who need to be told not to stand in fire (those that read guides in other words) really haven't bothered learning anything through their previous 55 levels. The fact that guide websites exist ruins the player base as no1 bothers thinking anymore. What do you think people did before dulfy was written?

 

And you seem to take the assumption that I enter an op and tell everyone "dw I can figure it out" on my first runs I would ask "anything special". This was when I noticed that to most people dps on adds, kill priorities and turning the boss away seem to be "special." However this stuff should be common knowledge by level 55

 

The bit in bold, what else are they going to be for?

 

My guild master has started to learn this about me and when I ask if theres anything special he ignores all the stuff which everyone does. For example at SnV when buying the droids, this was the last op I did so op leader knew me from previous raids and was happy to just call out a buy order. He didn't bother telling me what he kept telling other people as he seems to know that I have the sense to think "hmm, right click isn't working, ill left click" which is what (it seems) everyone else has to be told. This game is not brain surgery, guides are not necessary.

 

Second bold bit. I assume you would have known this but maybe not. If you spin the camera with right click you cant shoot the enemy "your not facing target". However it is possible to spin the camera with left click, so when a melee dps suddenly runs off somewhere I watch him to see what happens while still being able to shoot.

 

third bold bit it tends to be "anything special" by which I mean, anything not found in ANY FP or any other OP, because all that stuff is now obvious.

Edited July 18, 2014 by BobFredJohn

[venomlash]

HM Athiss semi-short story:

 

I'm Commando healing with a Watchman Sentinel, a Shadow tank, and a Guardian tank. Guardian was supposed to be DPS but all he knew how to do was tank, so eventually the Shadow switched to Infiltration and DPSed in tank gear.

 

So yeah, two tanks most of the FP. ALMOST EVERY PULL, THERE ARE ADDS ALL OVER ME.

At Professor Ley'arsha, I have to deal with adds pretty much by myself. The Sent helps a little, I'll give him that. The Sent seems to be competent as far as basic mechanics go, but I keep seeing him use Blade Storm and letting his Merciless stacks fall off in combat.

 

Inside the tomb with all the patrolling Sith, I tell the group that the mobs are immune to soft CC and have stealth detection, and that we want to fight one at a time, two can probably be managed, and three will mean a wipe. Immediately the Shadow tries to go mez one, ends up pulling both, and I have to try and repeatedly interrupt the Sorc mob while the other three guys beat on the Juggy, and then beat on the other Juggy who came pathing along and decided to join in.

 

At the final boss the Guardian kept standing in the purple circles until I yelled at him to get out. Sigh.

Amazingly enough nobody died in the run, but not for lack of trying. I gave myself a pat on the back for healing all that.

[BigBreakfast]

Apologies in advance for length / derail.

Please read all of what I write before commenting. I never said reading a guide forces you to stand in fire. I said that people who need to be told not to stand in fire (those that read guides in other words) really haven't bothered learning anything through their previous 55 levels. The fact that guide websites exist ruins the player base as no1 bothers thinking anymore. What do you think people did before dulfy was written?

I wont even mention (oops I just have) people who stand in red circles then, when they die say "Dulfy never mentioned droids running in a blowing themselves up"

Again, you ---cannot--- relate standing in stupid to reading a guide. They are completely separate. You are basically saying that someone who has learned to avoid circles will instead stand IN circles AS A RESULT OF READING DULFY. Wrong. If they are standing in stupid, a) they didn't see/got lazy or b) had their first lesson about standing in stupid. There is no c) Dulfy didn't say so. No, no and no.

The bit in bold, what else are they going to be for?

Oh, I don't know, damage? KDY has red/blue/yellow circles, normal FPs have red/blue/purple, spit is green, lair of the eyeless circles were green, other ops have orange circles. So according to you, people should have learned to stay out of circles. What makes doom circles any different?

He didn't bother telling me what he kept telling other people as he seems to know that I have the sense to think "hmm, right click isn't working, ill left click" which is what (it seems) everyone else has to be told. This game is not brain surgery, guides are not necessary.

Wat...

Second bold bit. I assume you would have known this but maybe not. If you spin the camera with right click you cant shoot the enemy "your not facing target". However it is possible to spin the camera with left click, so when a melee dps suddenly runs off somewhere I watch him to see what happens while still being able to shoot.

Did you really just give a lesson on rotating cameras?

And you can't honestly be telling me that during your first time at TFB, with no knowledge of any mechanics, you turned your camera around away from the boss (while maintaining dps/heals) and watched another player start the channel and break it. Please. You say that now because you know how it works, but during your first run you wouldn't even know to look for that player's channel bar. Even if you did, how did they know how to do it? Probably a guide or by someone who read the guide.

There are no tactics in SM ops (which IMO is where people should go to learn, not read a guide then leap straight into HM) which cannot be solved by a "monkey see, monkey do" attitude and an understanding of mechanics that everyone comes across when lvling in FP's.

Again, you are most likely following people that have read a guide at some point. Dulfy and others figure it out on PTS, write the guide, and people use the guide so that they don't spend a long time figuring stuff out and dying repeatedly. In fact, when someone is giving out instructions, they most likely have read the guide at some point, or been told by someone who has read the guide. I hate to say it, but directly or indirectly, you have followed the guide.

 

You still have yet to explain all the other instances where you claim common sense and monkey see/do (and no monkey see) can get you through it easily. I'll give you another one: Oasis City infiltration. How does one know that players aren't allowed to help another team in progress? Without previous instructions, that's a guaranteed wipe.

Edited July 18, 2014 by BigBreakfast

[Khevar]

I've got a story with a good ending this time.

 

Still working on my Operative healer (at 51 at the moment) I decided to queue for a HM FP again. And *drumroll* HM LI again!

 

The other three had run it before, but not in a long time and didn't really remember how to do it. Luckily, the tank and one of the dps were in decent gear (162+) so I figured we'd be okay.

 

Shaclaw was easy. Next, we one-shot LR-5, but it was way harder than it should have been. The tank wanted to keep him in the middle (which is fine), but the mara dropped one of the energy coils in the middle and the tank didn't move out of it. Oh. My Freaking. Bog. I'm glad I've plenty of practice healing, because I had to heal the tank standing in stupid, cleanse the tank and melee dps from missed incinerates as well as healing myself getting hit by the adds. It was haaaaard.

 

I was a bit worried as we moved onto Sav-Rak. During the first pull the tank got knocked off the platform, but the second pull went smooth and we killed him. We skipped the bonus. Trash leading up to Lorrick went smooth.

 

Lorrick took 3 tries. The first wipe was my fault as I stupidly got hit by satchel charges when I should have been paying better attention and just moved out of the way. The second wipe was due to someone's game disconnecting mid fight. The third try went smooth as butter.

 

All in all, I was quite pleased. It went a lot better than I expected, and we actually managed to pull it off despite the members of the group being rusty.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Khevar

[thewitchdoctor]

Apologies in advance for length / derail.

 

You are completely wasting your time. Others have tried.

[mustopak]

Story #1

 

16m HM DP. This healer which is the Leader seems confident of downing it with a PUG. That. is. rare. Saw his achievements of getting to Raptus in 16m HM DP. Probably got carried. But anyways.

 

The recruitment says no achievement or parse needed. Woah. We're down to just missing two tanks, got one, and this particular one says she haven't tanked DP HM but still got in anyways. 'TIS GUNNA BE GUD.

 

Bestia. Me and my guildie friend went in as Sentinels and we did our job. The guardian tank however, kept losing agro and derping the mechanics. Took a few tries until we finally got it.

 

Tyrans. The raid was converted to 8man due to the amount of wipes. This particular Guardian tank kept directing the Thundering Blast to the healers lmao. Add to that we are almost all melee DPS, but at least me and my friend got it right in terms of inferno placings. After 10+ wipes, they finally called it. Heh.

 

Story #2

 

Athiss HM. Me as Sentinel. So we got down the elevator that you can slice. Then the tank suddenly "brb raid" and left the group. What an effin troll. We re-qued, but proceeded with my decently geared Scourge. Trash weren't a problem, the first boss a breeze, the big dog we had to kite him to the pool and done. Opened the doors with archie, and the last boss, luckily the flames never chased Scourge and we got it down. Still no tank, FP was finished. Had the flames was on Scourge I would have put him in Passive and kite him away from the flames. It was good.

 

After we finished the FP, my healer friend saw the troll tank on Who list and he wasn't even raiding. Scrub.

Edited July 19, 2014 by mustopak

[yoyodar]

Ok finally my turn to put something in here anyways I qued for a fp on my lvl 24 shadow tank and got mandalorion raiders so we have 2 shadow dps who are 29 and a sorc healer who is 32, anyways one of the shadows ends up pulling about every second group and randomly taunting, I tell him to stop but he doesn't listen so then the healer says she wont heal any one but the tank if they pull so I am glad about that so he doesn't pull any more until we get to the first boss, then as I am typing in the strat both the shadows stand next to eachother then one of them moves forward a step and of corse the other shadow wont stand for that so she goes a step ahead of him, of course they end up pulling and then the shadow who I was having issues with taunts the boss and it looks like he is actually doing the right thing so I go in there and taunt the boss off him, well it turns out he was just running away so of course that pull is horrible with the dogs running around every where and me trying my hardest and even though he randomly taunts the boss (not the mechanic because I saw the taunt debuff and he was glowing) but eventually we kill them and then a piece of guardian gear drops and both the shadows need on it so then I check there achievements and one is a noob nut the one who was randomly taunting had 4 55's. so now I thought he was just tro0lling but anyways we make our way to the next boss basically the same as before with him pulling and knocking them back, and on one occasion when he was at 30% since the healer would not heal him he taunted a gold from me so I let him tank it and he died but he never said anything and didn't react to it anyways once again while I am typing the strat they play there game and pull, healer lets one die and then I get control of the rest and we slowly kill the remaining bosses, so after rezing the dps that died at the start we continued, as before with the one shadow being stupid and once we get to the last boss surprise the one shadow that has been bad the whole way through runs to the boss and uses his knock back so I take my time typing the strat and they actually listen and we kill him easily, then after finishing the fp I exit and notice the shadow is not leaving the fp so I go afk for about 10 minutes, when I get back I look him up so I can ignore him, and what do you know, he is still sitting in the flashpoint so I realise he is a baddie and not trolling lol

[BobFredJohn]

And you can't honestly be telling me that during your first time at TFB, with no knowledge of any mechanics, you turned your camera around away from the boss (while maintaining dps/heals) and watched another player start the channel and break it. Please. You say that now because you know how it works, but during your first run you wouldn't even know to look for that player's channel bar. Even if you did, how did they know how to do it? Probably a guide or by someone who read the guide.

 

Sorry my mistake I clearly didnt explain my opinion of "monkey see, monkey do" properly...

 

Kelphess fight, I was playing dps. I notice a debuff up on a mara, but not being cleansed. I assumed the healers have probably missed it, but not my problem, im not the 1 with debuff. It then pops up on another 2 people at which point they all run towards a tower. I notice the same 3 people with the debuff have long casts below them (if you have players bars active, it will also show their cast bars). The debuffs disappear at the end of the cast and the boss falls over. Now I consider myself to be an average person, im nothing special. But when 3 people get a debuff, the healers ignore it then the same 3 start a cast which stuns the boss and removes the debuff, I think it becomes extremely obvious what im supposed to do...(standing in lightning, exactly the same, some1 gets red target on him and instantly moves between the boss and the tower....hmm I have a red target on me, what do I do? maybe copy the previous bloke who had it)

 

If you are unable to do this sort of stuff feel free to read a guide, I have no problem with that. What I dont like is when the ops leader calls out the basics of the fight, 1 or 2 people don't do as told, cause a wipe and, when asked start their reasoning with "Dulfy says....". Who F-ing cares what Dulfy says, do what the ops leader says. Its clear that people who know the fight off by heart will give their own opinions, not Dulfy's, therefore someone who quotes off Dulfy is clearly still learning.

 

And yes, if your going into a group that says "must know tacts" its pretty clear the leader is not going to explain anything. Though do you really consider that reading a guide = knowing the tactics?

 

As you stated later on (though I cut it) everyone else reads guides, so if my op leader has read guides a few months ago, spent the past few months learning the tactics off by heart, then gives an explanation, then why should I delay the group at the start by saying "brb, going to check the guide for this mission"?

Edited July 19, 2014 by BobFredJohn

[Khevar]

If you are unable to do this sort of stuff feel free to read a guide, I have no problem with that. What I dont like is when the ops leader calls out the basics of the fight, 1 or 2 people don't do as told, cause a wipe and, when asked start their reasoning with "Dulfy says....". Who F-ing cares what Dulfy says, do what the ops leader says. Its clear that people who know the fight off by heart will give their own opinions, not Dulfy's, therefore someone who quotes off Dulfy is clearly still learning.

You have this weird hate for guides. Honestly, you seem to have an agenda against them.

 

Lots of passive-aggressive snide comments saying that you, an ordinary person, figures everything out without a guide, implying that everyone else must be an idiot. Followed some remarkably rare anecdote where a player messed up BECAUSE they read a guide.

 

Either you actually believe that a guides are scourge that make everything worse, or you're just taking this opportunity to try and convince everyone how much better you are than the rest of the world.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Khevar

[BigBreakfast]

Sorry my mistake I clearly didnt explain my opinion of "monkey see, monkey do" properly...

 

Kelphess fight, I was playing dps. I notice a debuff up on a mara, but not being cleansed. I assumed the healers have probably missed it, but not my problem, im not the 1 with debuff. It then pops up on another 2 people at which point they all run towards a tower. I notice the same 3 people with the debuff have long casts below them (if you have players bars active, it will also show their cast bars). The debuffs disappear at the end of the cast and the boss falls over. Now I consider myself to be an average person, im nothing special. But when 3 people get a debuff, the healers ignore it then the same 3 start a cast which stuns the boss and removes the debuff, I think it becomes extremely obvious what im supposed to do...(standing in lightning, exactly the same, some1 gets red target on him and instantly moves between the boss and the tower....hmm I have a red target on me, what do I do? maybe copy the previous bloke who had it)

 

If you are unable to do this sort of stuff feel free to read a guide, I have no problem with that. What I dont like is when the ops leader calls out the basics of the fight, 1 or 2 people don't do as told, cause a wipe and, when asked start their reasoning with "Dulfy says....". Who F-ing cares what Dulfy says, do what the ops leader says. Its clear that people who know the fight off by heart will give their own opinions, not Dulfy's, therefore someone who quotes off Dulfy is clearly still learning.

 

And yes, if your going into a group that says "must know tacts" its pretty clear the leader is not going to explain anything. Though do you really consider that reading a guide = knowing the tactics?

 

As you stated later on (though I cut it) everyone else reads guides, so if my op leader has read guides a few months ago, spent the past few months learning the tactics off by heart, then gives an explanation, then why should I delay the group at the start by saying "brb, going to check the guide for this mission"?

 

You're hopeless.

 

Quick copy/paste from Dulfy's TFB guide:

 

After a few lighting attacks, you will see the message – Heirad Begins to Cast Surging Chain! Ciphas will hop over and casts Empowered Barrier on Heirad to make him immune to damage. You now must damage Ciphas so break his shield bubble and the interrupt his Empowered Barrier ability. The symbol for his shield bubble is the same as the sorc/sage bubble. Surging Chain hits for 2.5-3.5k.

 

Please tell me how that's different from the instructions given by any ops leader.

 

You lose.

Edited July 19, 2014 by BigBreakfast

[FrozenGoalie]

Please stop arguing about whether or not guides are good or bad. We came to this thread for funny stories, not to read another pointless argument. Edited July 19, 2014 by FrozenGoalie

[cxten]

16m HM DP. This healer which is the Leader seems confident of downing it with a PUG. That. is. rare. [...]

The recruitment says no achievement or parse needed. Woah. We're down to just missing two tanks, got one, and this particular one says she haven't tanked DP HM but still got in anyways. 'TIS GUNNA BE GUD. [snip]

 

I saw that one advertised! Thanks for satisfying my curiosity --- had been wondering what would become of it!

 

I've only seen 16m HM pugged successfully once (not that I see it pugged often), and it was actually two almost full 8-mans, one a guild run missing one and one a pug of experienced raiders, that decided to team up for kicks. And they actually split up to do two 8-mans for bestia after wiping a few times on 16 man bestia, then reformed for tyrans through raptus (and finally disbanded after a few wipes on council).

 

I'm impressed you guys got bestia down, actually.

 

----------

 

A more positive op story (not HM, though):

 

I'm on a new sentinel, running combat, with just over 30k hp and we're doing a 16 man sm DF (of the usual fleet pug variety). We get to Brontes, and both tanks, one healer, and I believe one or two dps die to the lightning reaches (rez already on cooldown and no stealth still alive).

 

Okay, I've seen that before. Except people don't all /stuck or stand around waiting to wipe. I pick up the boss and point her away. The remaining healers, two of whom were very well geared, keep me alive, and I see kephess clones being killed and everything going smoothly.

 

Toward the end of the droid phase, I call out that I'm taking the hand on one side, and ask someone to pick up the other. Some well geared commando does, and we make it through! I burn all cooldowns plus a medpack, and stealth out when the hand and my sent are each sub 5%. Last phase is cake. At the end, one of the dead tanks writes "wowowow."

 

I guess it makes sense it's possible, especially with the gear most have now compared to the difficulty of story mode (30% aoe reduction ftw too), but I'd never seen something like that done with no tanks, especially on the fly in a pug with everyone rolling with it.

Edited July 20, 2014 by cxten

[BobFredJohn]

Please stop arguing about whether or not guides are good or bad. We came to this thread for funny stories, not to read another pointless argument.

 

Sorry I would have stopped a while ago but BigBreakfast is getting really wound up. Sadly I quite like seeing people lose it over a game

 

Once more, slightly clearer this time. I don't like guides as 1) I find they make the game more boring in the case of solo missions. 2) They give people who don't know tactics an arrogance (not really the right word but I've just gone brain-dead) that its going to be easy/they know it on their first run.

 

All my OP's learning is done in 8 man SM guild runs as a dps. The guild im with sometimes uses pugs when we don't have enough people. Now our OP leaders are rare ones who realise that asking someone to "show achievement" or "knows tacts" is ridiculous as there is a first time for everyone. Therefore we often get pugs who don't know what to do (and some new guildies) so the leader explains the fights in TS during the trash pulls in between. The majority of the time this works, however:

 

Some of these pugs have read guides and, while the op leader is calling out tacts over ts, 1 or 2 people are arguing with him with statements like "thats not what dulfy says" and "dulfy says A, B and C". Its clear that someone who is using guides to get through a mission is new to the mission (otherwise they wouldn't need a guide). IMO if someone is new they should not be telling the ops leader who knows the tactics off by heart that he is wrong.

 

This gets even worse during the fight, in which people who read the guides often die. As we in the guild tell them "either listen to op leader, leave, or die within the first few seconds and lie there for the rest of the fight as we wont waste a combat res on someone who wont follow the group".

 

I also notice that all the pugs who join saying "I've not done this before, I don't know tacts" are more willing to listen to the ops leader. This leads to my conclusion, reading a guide makes people think they know something they don't, causing hassle if their guide disagrees with what the people in the op, who have done it before.

 

1 final point: reading a guide does not guarantee that people are capable of doing it. Completely off topic but I will use it as an example. DMC4 credo fight, when I was new to the game I watched videos because seeing pro's do it is awesome. The video I watched he caught the javelin and threw it back, I tried it and kept getting hit. Just because the person who wrote Dulfy can do it doesn't mean everyone can, some people are just better than others.

 

And just in response to BigBreakfasts comment which (he seems to think) "defeated me". I don't care where the op leader got his information. The point is, he knows what hes doing, so I will do what he says.

 

 

I'll stop now.

Edited July 20, 2014 by BobFredJohn