Lostpenguins Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Why would I waste my time trying to prove your failed point? Fine, some call them a monthly "stipend", some call them "complimentary"...either way, they're not FREE. BW calls it complimentary. You agree to their ToS when you sign the EULA and when you sub month after month. Now you're trying to back-pedal and break the deal for which you agreed to. I'm pretty sure the legal system would agree that "complimentary" is the correct word or they probably would have gotten in trouble by now. So if they're right in using the word "complimentary", then the coins are free. Is that sinking in yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 It's like a complimentary mint on your pillow in a hotel. You aren't paying for that. You're paying for the room and service. They mint is free. LULZ!!! Really?! I assure you, that "free mint", is more than being paid for by the price of your room. The mint is "included" or "complimentary" with your room purchase, but it is most certainly not "free". Geezus...use some common sense, seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Can you get it without spending any money? A question you have totally avoided. Your question is only valid IF the only reason you pay your monthly subscription is to get the 500 coins. We both know that's not why you do so.. becasue you are a smart person and would just buy the coins instead.... because you can get a lot more coins for your $15. When you purchase a product (in this case, a monthly subscription) and the merchant chooses (note the term chooses, it's their choice and they eat any cost) to give you a second product (in this case 500 coins) at no additional charge... the coins are in fact free because getting them required absolutely ZERO incremental real $$ from your wallet for them. Edited May 2, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 How did you gain access to the newest Operation or the upgraded FPs? I'm pretty sure the only way to access them is to be level 55...which required REAL MONEY to reach. Um, how did you access the previous Operations? By being level 50, which required REAL MONEY to reach. It's the same argument. So saying that the new content is paid for by Makeb means that the old content was paid for by the original purchase of the game. Hence, nothing was ever "free" and the when AlaricSevGirl said "everything from here on out will be paid content are fooling themselves," that's just rhetoric because then everything ever released in this game was paid content. So there's nothing new to complain about as the entire game is paid-for content. See how terrible that logic is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 BW calls it complimentary. You agree to their ToS when you sign the EULA and when you sub month after month. Now you're trying to back-pedal and break the deal for which you agreed to. I'm pretty sure the legal system would agree that "complimentary" is the correct word or they probably would have gotten in trouble by now. So if they're right in using the word "complimentary", then the coins are free. Is that sinking in yet? No lol, because you're wrong. You're the one trying to define "complimentary" as "free", not us. You're the one arguing a flawed point, not us. You're the one who seems to think you get "FREE COINS" and "FREE MINTS", not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramecha Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Your question is only valid IF the only reason you pay your monthly subscription is to get the 500 coins. We both know that's not why you do so.. becasue you are a smart person and would just buy the coins instead.... because you can get a lot more coins for your $15. When you purchase a product (in this case, a monthly subscription) and the merchant chooses (note the term chooses, it's their choice and they eat any cost) to give you a second product (in this case 500 coins) at no additional charge... the coins are in fact free because getting them required absolutely ZERO incremental real $$ from your wallet for them. I love your quote at the bottom if only people could understand it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Andryah and Lostpenguins... Are you a couple? You two seem seriously like-minded. Might consider a date. xD Edited May 2, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) LULZ!!! Really?! I assure you, that "free mint", is more than being paid for by the price of your room. True.. but that does not mean you paid anyone directly for that mint being on your pillow. It is simply part of the overhead costs baked into the operation, just like the flowers in the lobby. Besides... we are talking about a virtual mint in the context of the discussion and there is no cost to sink anywhere. Bioware can print as many coins as they want and it costs them nothing. Geezus...use some common sense, seriously. Now you are just being ironic IMO. Edited May 2, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) But see.. For the first 10 or 11 months the game was live.. We didn't get any coins.. The amount we paid for our subscriptions didn't change.. They back paid us out of the kindness of their hearts. I have to take issue with this statement. This game is a business, not a charity. I find it very hard to believe that ANYTHING is done out of the "kindness of their hearts". It was a business decision. It has always been a business decision. One that kept the game alive. The sub was not valuable enough as it stood to stem the tide of players that were leaving the game in rapid form. And, this is fact. The numbers are there, statements from Bioware are there for all to see. You can not dispute the reasons why they went free to play...THEY have provided us the reasons. Last spring, there was some uncertainty surrounding Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ as we were starting to lose subscribers and players were growing frustrated. In fairness, many of the complaints and worries were justified. In an effort to try to address everything, we just weren’t sufficiently focused on improving the core experience. At the end of the summer, we announced that were going to make the game more enjoyable than ever before by working to improve three key aspects of the game: making it easier to find friends to play with (via Group Finder), increasing the cadence of our content updates (so players wouldn’t have to wait around for new stuff), and bringing back vitality to the game by reaching out to new players via a Free-to-Play option. In addition we introduced some cool new items for everyone to check out via the Cartel Market. So how did it go? Well, you can see for yourself when you log in to the game. Our new, high capacity servers are teeming with people. Since launch of the Free-to-Play option we have had over 2 million new accounts created and have thousands of new players jumping in every single day. This means more people to play with, more growth for your guilds, more Warzone matches, and more ways for players to continue to advance their characters. -Jeff Hickman Executive Producer, Star Wars: The Old Republic Taken in part from State of the Game #3 - Star Wars Any contention that they have done ANYTHING out of graciousness is simply ludicrous. If they have ever done anything it was always to improve market share and long term viability and profit potential. This is a vehicle for profit. Period. Edited May 2, 2013 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Um, how did you access the previous Operations? By being level 50, which required REAL MONEY to reach. It's the same argument. So saying that the new content is paid for by Makeb means that the old content was paid for by the original purchase of the game. Hence, nothing was ever "free" and the when AlaricSevGirl said "everything from here on out will be paid content are fooling themselves," that's just rhetoric because then everything ever released in this game was paid content. So there's nothing new to complain about as the entire game is paid-for content. See how terrible that logic is? No, reaching 50 is free to any player. Again, you're the one who was trying to point out that people didn't need to pay extra for FPs or Ops (the previous posters concern)...but they DID! Keep your arguments straight. You're all over the freaking place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtkram Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Fail ...<snipped>... you're hung up on the definition of 'complimentary' and that is why it's a semantic argument. whether the coins i pay for are free or not isn't really the point. the point is i have to pay for them. if i quit paying, i wouldn't get them. you keep repeating the fact that the coins i have are free because they use the word 'complimentary.' if this is strictly true, which in my opinion it is not, then EA is misleading me by telling me they will give me coins without providing them real life money in return. either way, it doesn't matter. once you get over this, you can join the conversation on the same level as the rest of us. Andryah, this game isn't WoW, so the comparison is also not entirely relevant imo. i get that you're trying to establish an industry standard or whatever, but let's just focus on the problems with this game, what it is people are upset about, and why. Except, they never said that. You inferred it, to your personal advantage or desire. refer to : http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6469 What are the benefits of a subscription account? In addition to unrestricted access to the full game and features there will be several benefits to a subscription account, including: Unlimited access to regular Game Updates such as new Nightmare Mode content, a brand new Operation on the planet of Asation, a new Heroic mission series on the prison planet of Belsavis, and a brand new Warzone for our PvP lovers. Subscribers will also receive an automatic monthly grant of Cartel Coins for use in our new Cartel Market. The Cartel Market will offer a variety of in-game items including cosmetically customizable gear and convenience features that will enhance the game play experience. Subscribers will receive Cartel Coin rewards for every past and ongoing month of subscription. Edited May 2, 2013 by curtkram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Can you get it without spending any money? A question you have totally avoided. Can you look up the word complimentary? Can you get CC's if you didn't pay for the computer you're playing on? Seriously? The buck stops with: are you paying for the coins, directly? No. There is no point of sale transaction you are in when you receive the coins. You are paying for your subscription and then they give you coins for being an active member. Once again, those coins are complimentary and complimentary means "free of charge". Keep trying to use some twist in logic of back-tracking the trail to say it all originates with cost, but then nothing in life is free as everything given requires you do something... and that something has a trail that leads to you paying something to do something. But go ahead, keep trying to tell a cat is a dog when the definition clearly shows what a cat is and you're trying to spin some logic and back-track to show that cats are dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 LULZ!!! Really?! I assure you, that "free mint", is more than being paid for by the price of your room. The mint is "included" or "complimentary" with your room purchase, but it is most certainly not "free". Geezus...use some common sense, seriously. No, the mint is not itemized on your bill. You are not paying $X - [the cost of the mint] for the room. If you really think this, you have no understanding of business, point of sale transactions, services rendered, or the English language in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Penguin, even Eric Musco referred to monthly coins as a "stipend". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 No lol, because you're wrong. You're the one trying to define "complimentary" as "free", not us. You're the one arguing a flawed point, not us. You're the one who seems to think you get "FREE COINS" and "FREE MINTS", not us. Please link me a definition of the world "complimentary" from a credible site that defines complimentary as having cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramecha Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Logic test complimentary + free = zero End of test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Mr. musco it is time to put this beast down It's just wannabe alpha males that wanna attempt to convert other alpha males into their own point of view about stuff. Thing that, because everyone wants to be the alpha male of this topic, isn't going to happen anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) I have to take issue with this statement. This game is a business, not a charity. I find it very hard to believe that ANYTHING is done out of the "kindness of their hearts". While it is a for profit business for sure.. and most things a for profit business does is to earn more business from customers... it would be an oversight to forget that for profit corporations (even the greediest ones) do in fact do things for nothing more then good will to customers, particularly if the actual cost to the company is effectively zero. Why? because goodwill HAS a value in total customer satisfaction which HAS value in repeat business and more business from existing customers. It is a win/win. Cartel coins are given to subscribers at no additional charge because it is a win/win for customer and company. It's also being competitive with other companies... so it's not 100% altruistic of course. Edited May 2, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Can you look up the word complimentary? Can you get CC's if you didn't pay for the computer you're playing on? Seriously? The buck stops with: are you paying for the coins, directly? No. Sure we do. The 500 coins are a PART OF your subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Andryah and Lostpenguins... Are you a couple? You two seem seriously like-minded. Might consider a date. xD There's been a lot of people in this thread who are like-minded. They have either showed up a few times in this post and said a few things or, came in once, laughed at the criers, and bounced. If anything, all of them + andryah and I should get together in a support group and weep for the people who have such an obtuse understanding of the world and the English Language that makes them think they are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 No, the mint is not itemized on your bill. You are not paying $X - [the cost of the mint] for the room. If you really think this, you have no understanding of business, point of sale transactions, services rendered, or the English language in general. Lobby rugs, lightbulbs, bath towels - those are items also "not itemized" on my bill - your example only proves my point. Insulting me does nothing to prove your failed point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Sure we do. The 500 coins are a PART OF your subscription. Well, they were not before F2P. So... somehow they added them on top of the subscription access, but did not charge for them.... yet we are paying incrementally for them?????? They bundled them to every subscription on the day F2P went live AND did not charge for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramecha Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Sure we do. The 500 coins are a PART OF your subscription. Even if you want to claim the coins as part of your sub whats the point? 15 is 15 a month........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 There's been a lot of people in this thread who are like-minded. They have either showed up a few times in this post and said a few things or, came in once, laughed at the criers, and bounced. If anything, all of them + andryah and I should get together in a support group and weep for the people who have such an obtuse understanding of the world and the English Language that makes them think they are right. I'd gladly join you once I get a hood toggle but I promised to leave this hive of scum & villainy forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramecha Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Well, they were not before F2P. So... somehow they added them on top of the subscription access, but did not charge for them.... yet we are paying incrementally for them?????? They bundled them to every subscription on the day F2P went live AND did not charge for them. No thats madness I want to feel less valued as a customer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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