ETA on SMASH NERF BIoware???

[Carnaje]

1. For those who use the statement not to nerf smash because you dont have a true stun. This is a bad statement in your argument. You do not have a 4 second stun because of your defensive abilities. NOT your offensive abilities. Otherwise other classes would not have a 4 second stun, but they would have things like um undying rage. Funny how undying rage's duration is 4 seconds dont you think?

 

2. Yes, we all use key bindings for most of our talents. There is a difference in using a medpack that is on a 1.5 min cooldown to something in your regular rotation. Yes you might have your defensive abilities key binded but what does that matter if your only using 3-5 buttons on a regular rotation to kill someone. Thats like me saying on my concealment op I have my heals key binded. Yes i use them, but not often since 99% of the time my target is dead.

 

3. The reason smash is and always will be an issue is because its AE that is on a short cooldown that hits for 8k plus or minus. It hits just as hard as every other classes single target abilities. It almost hits as hard as one of the other hardest hitting AE's in the game aka Orbital Strike which is a cast ability on a very long cooldown and a dot. Its a ridiculous idea to have just one skill do 25% of your damage as an ae every 12 seconds.

 

4. in 2.0 BW tried to change this a little bit with a nerf to smash and adding dmg to the other abilities. I am not going to argue if this was effective. The topic of discussion should more on this topic.

[Savej]

2. Yes, we all use key bindings for most of our talents. There is a difference in using a medpack that is on a 1.5 min cooldown to something in your regular rotation. Yes you might have your defensive abilities key binded but what does that matter if your only using 3-5 buttons on a regular rotation to kill someone. Thats like me saying on my concealment op I have my heals key binded. Yes i use them, but not often since 99% of the time my target is dead.

 

Uh, what? 1.5 min is a short rt... a medpack - gets used every fight. I often push the button while it's on cooldown. I don't kill anyone in wzs with 3-5 buttons is the basic point - I'm fairly constantly pushing different buttons unless my team vastly outclasses there's and I don't have to. I'm not sure there's a class out there that can other than maybe a sin (hide, maul, stun, maul, maul, dead - jk). Who mourns the death of tracer missile spam?

[mrekxxx]

1. For those who use the statement not to nerf smash because you dont have a true stun. This is a bad statement in your argument. You do not have a 4 second stun because of your defensive abilities. NOT your offensive abilities. Otherwise other classes would not have a 4 second stun, but they would have things like um undying rage. Funny how undying rage's duration is 4 seconds dont you think?

 

2. Yes, we all use key bindings for most of our talents. There is a difference in using a medpack that is on a 1.5 min cooldown to something in your regular rotation. Yes you might have your defensive abilities key binded but what does that matter if your only using 3-5 buttons on a regular rotation to kill someone. Thats like me saying on my concealment op I have my heals key binded. Yes i use them, but not often since 99% of the time my target is dead.

 

3. The reason smash is and always will be an issue is because its AE that is on a short cooldown that hits for 8k plus or minus. It hits just as hard as every other classes single target abilities. It almost hits as hard as one of the other hardest hitting AE's in the game aka Orbital Strike which is a cast ability on a very long cooldown and a dot. Its a ridiculous idea to have just one skill do 25% of your damage as an ae every 12 seconds.

 

4. in 2.0 BW tried to change this a little bit with a nerf to smash and adding dmg to the other abilities. I am not going to argue if this was effective. The topic of discussion should more on this topic.

 

cannot believe ppl are so stupid like u and repeat everyday good smasher press 2-5 buttons ... all classes are pretty easy, 7 years old kid can play, but best players, smashers including use 15 keys+ , and what is important , you need to use brain to be strong enough ... so stop qq and l2p ...

[lxynl]

First if you stand in a tight group, hahah you get smashed, so dont. Second with the boster exploit going on no one knows what the top smashers will do, but even if they do 9k they dont need to be nerfed.

 

Lets get the exploits fixed and then see where we are, but even then I always advocate tonning down all the slows, mezes, knock downs, stuns, pushes, pulls, etc........, but if they stay then make a working system of dr's not the broken resilence that you have now and put cc breaks on a much much shorter cd, say 15 or 20 seconds.

 

Lets all hope BW fixes the bolster exploit, the dev statement didn't seem especially urgent, even though this exploit breaks pvp.

[Yamahara]

Oh please..I've seen snipers do 12k single hits and a dps sorc do over 2.4mil in damage. Quit your whining, you have 28-30k+ health now..a 8-10k smash is nothing.

[Yamahara]

These are screenshots of players from my server alone.

 

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s596/DegenerateCode/Screenshot_2013-04-22_20_18_20_485351_zps52f01eeb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/AyuM5uZ.jpg

 

First one is a jugg, second is a sentinel.

 

Also, numbers on what they're capable of at 55:

 

http://i.imgur.com/KmiKizp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/35y3PXK.jpg

 

Smash doesn't need a nerf? K...

 

Even the smasher in the one ss is making fun of how easy it is. He plays other classes well, regardless, but you can note his comment.

 

http://postimg.org/image/wtne628zh/full/ You can all stop complaining smash is OP now.

 

http://postimg.org/image/i9gp8kdah/full/ Oh once again..

 

http://postimg.org/image/b55mxox9j/ <--and again..

 

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/148774/module_gallery/original/1177443.jpg <--that DPS..oh look not a smasher. Just learn to play all classes can do just about the same.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Yamahara

[jediharrsion]

Smash is just fine the way it is. I'm betting the op ran into a group of "Smash Monkeys"

[Ghost_Spectre]

I believe the best way to fix Sweep/Smash is to change the dynamics of the critical hit to apply only to the primary (focused) target by a single attacker. Allow the damage to remain the same; however, those in the AoE should not feel automatic crit damage, only normal damage. You'll still do damage to everyone in the AoE; however, only the primary (focused) target would receive the brunt of attack. Any others who chain Sweep/Smash would be less effective because they did not make the first attack or the target was in the AoE only. While this limits the total damage in the affected area, it does not limit the damage to the focused target of the attack. While this is a nerf to AoE, it is not a nerf to the primary (focused) target. I believe this is a fair and equitable solution.

[Darknsith]

http://postimg.org/image/wtne628zh/full/ You can all stop complaining smash is OP now.

 

http://postimg.org/image/i9gp8kdah/full/ Oh once again..

 

http://postimg.org/image/b55mxox9j/ <--and again..

 

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/148774/module_gallery/original/1177443.jpg <--that DPS..oh look not a smasher. Just learn to play all classes can do just about the same.

 

After analyzing your first 2 screenshots and seeing the x8 and x9, it leads me to believe that it was a premade of 2 guilds versus each other. No one must have been playing objectives and it had to be a stat padding match as there are virtually NO DEATHS for a 6 round tango of ancient hypergate. Honestly not impressed as any 2 guilds can simul queue against each other and pull out stats like that.

 

On another note, smash is fine...aside from this "free bump" i'm providing it really is pointless to create and fuel threads like this as it really shows what kind of person you really are. Yes I play a sweep guardian and i consider myself a good player. But to spit out ignorance such as "3 button faceroll" class just screams (T_T).

 

-Does sweep/smash require a lower learning curve than some classes?

That's all a matter of opinion. Any class is easy if you've played it from the start. IMO I feel like my powertech and sniper is easier to play. Thats my opinion of course and is in no way proven fact.

 

-Does it require only 3 buttons? You can play with only 3 buttons all you want but get used to the respawn area if you truly feel that way. Maybe 3 buttons in the optimal smash setup, but combat focus is on a CD. every other situation requires buildup of singularity through force exhaustion.

 

Long story short...play your own class and stop crying. Every class fills a niche in PvP (except powertechs/vanguards but theres already a thread about how Bioware/EA shafted them). Things like this makes you look like a toddler with his arms crossed, lips stuck out, stomping around because someone beat you. I mean seriously look at the title of the thread for god's sake. ELITIST MUCH? And 1v1 is irrelevent because any competent team focus fires. Focused/simultaneous smashes will kill you just as fast as 4 snipers focus firing. Or four demo rounds/heatseeker missles etc. One common formula which applies to EVERY MMO is there will always be a FotM or class on top. WIth that comes nerfherders and the QQ brigade. As long as class diversity exists there will ALWAYS be a class that naturally outperforms better than others. When you nerf it, another takes it place and the crying for nerf refreshes itself until we are all slapping each other with glowing wet noodles and shooting spitballs at each other. If you can't accept this, Tetris™ may be your thing and it's that way ------>

 

EDIT:

I believe the best way to fix Sweep/Smash is to change the dynamics of the critical hit to apply only to the primary (focused) target by a single attacker. Allow the damage to remain the same; however, those in the AoE should not feel automatic crit damage, only normal damage. You'll still do damage to everyone in the AoE; however, only the primary (focused) target would receive the brunt of attack. Any others who chain Sweep/Smash would be less effective because they did not make the first attack or the target was in the AoE only. While this limits the total damage in the affected area, it does not limit the damage to the focused target of the attack. While this is a nerf to AoE, it is not a nerf to the primary (focused) target. I believe this is a fair and equitable solution.

 

Now despite my love for the focus guardian, I won't be ignorant in my assessment and I can say that it is slightly above the curve. If a nerf was in order, this seems like the most fair and logical one that wouldn't upset the balance of melee to range. Smash burst is needed, otherwise this game would turn into Call of Duty Online: Space Paladin Edition with gunslingers, snipers, sorcs/sages everywhere using target practice on melees. Focus/Rage spec is the squishy killer. That fact must be accepted. The purple lightning firing squads are balanced by the fact that a maraud/jugg sent/guardian can drop them quickly if they aren't on their toes. Eliminate this and who's to stop them?

Edited May 1, 2013 by Darknsith

[UncleOst]

sweep/smash should be the least of your worries.

[Astarica]

I believe the best way to fix Sweep/Smash is to change the dynamics of the critical hit to apply only to the primary (focused) target by a single attacker. Allow the damage to remain the same; however, those in the AoE should not feel automatic crit damage, only normal damage. You'll still do damage to everyone in the AoE; however, only the primary (focused) target would receive the brunt of attack. Any others who chain Sweep/Smash would be less effective because they did not make the first attack or the target was in the AoE only. While this limits the total damage in the affected area, it does not limit the damage to the focused target of the attack. While this is a nerf to AoE, it is not a nerf to the primary (focused) target. I believe this is a fair and equitable solution.

 

Just make the target of your Force Charge/Obliterate have a charge of debuff that makes next Smash a guaranteed crit on the target. The debuff will last the duration of however long their current guaranteed crit proc lasts and is not removeable by any means. It should stack with other players's version of it (so you can still have 4 guys all leap to the same guy and all crit on that guy). Since you cannot get a guaranteed crit on smash without having someone to leap to first, this allows you to figure out who the 'primary' recipient of smash ought to be.

 

Part of the problem of why Smash is so strong, especially in 2.0 is that after the crit/surge nerf it doesn't make as much sense to stack power/surge for a class that relies on crits, because who cares if your crit hits really hard if it happens only 20% of the time? But if you increase your crit to say 30% your power takes a big hit and now surge doesn't look as attractive as it used to. But of course since Smash is guaranteed to crit, the same power/surge approach still works fine with no repercussion. For the most part in 2.0 classes need to choose between very hard hitting crits that don't happen often, or crits that occur relatively often but don't hit very hard. Smash, of course, is always a crit and it always hits hard, because you have no need to focus on crit.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Astarica

[DarkSaberMaster]

Lol. Yes. Please keep crying about Smash/Sweep so it keeps the focus off my Sniper.

[Ghost_Spectre]

Just make the target of your Force Charge/Obliterate have a charge of debuff that makes next Smash a guaranteed crit on the target. The debuff will last the duration of however long their current guaranteed crit proc lasts and is not removeable by any means. It should stack with other players's version of it (so you can still have 4 guys all leap to the same guy and all crit on that guy). Since you cannot get a guaranteed crit on smash without having someone to leap to first, this allows you to figure out who the 'primary' recipient of smash ought to be.

 

Part of the problem of why Smash is so strong, especially in 2.0 is that after the crit/surge nerf it doesn't make as much sense to stack power/surge for a class that relies on crits, because who cares if your crit hits really hard if it happens only 20% of the time? But if you increase your crit to say 30% your power takes a big hit and now surge doesn't look as attractive as it used to. But of course since Smash is guaranteed to crit, the same power/surge approach still works fine with no repercussion. For the most part in 2.0 classes need to choose between very hard hitting crits that don't happen often, or crits that occur relatively often but don't hit very hard. Smash, of course, is always a crit and it always hits hard, because you have no need to focus on crit.

 

I see the merit and reasoning behind this type of implementation. However, it appears that this might be a bit more complicated to put into place as it relies on adding in more code for a debuff and other things. With the current track record of the PvP developers (hint: bolster), it may well end up blowing up to something I can only imagine.

 

I believe in this instance, using something simple as first to attack gets the prize and the winner receives all the heat. That way the current mechanics stay in place only the type of damage need changing for those not the primary (focused) target. Now, this can still work with the leap(s) as you pointed out; however, I don't know if adding a debuff would be needed or stacking them because one is hit by a train of Smashers/Sweepers. Leaving the auto crit for the primary (focused) target with the applicable damage and delivering normal non-crit damage to those in the affected area still achieves the desired effect on softening up everyone, just not to the point where they are all wiped out in a chain attack.

 

While the Sorcerer/Sages have their AoE attack, the amount of damage received depends on how long a person stays in the affected area. This is not the case for the area affected by the Smash/Sweep. So having those in the AoE take normal non-crit damage would be comparable to the AoE of a Sorcerer/Sage AoE where you can move out from the affected area. I'm not a programmer; however, I am experienced in developing game mechanics and believe this is most effective means necessary to reduce the effectiveness of the Smash/Sweep without destroying its burst capability against the primary (focused) target. I believe it is balanced solution to this problem.

[DeiVias]

Nerf everything from every class and every spec in the game!!

 

It's all op!!!!

 

 

The Snipers/Slingers must be loving all these nerf Smash threads.

[buckman]

IMHO, Smash/Focus spec is useful, but right now it consistently out-performs every other dps spec out there. I think it just needs to be reigned in a little bit (drop the damage of Smash/FS by a little bit).

[Yamahara]

After analyzing your first 2 screenshots and seeing the x8 and x9, it leads me to believe that it was a premade of 2 guilds versus each other. No one must have been playing objectives and it had to be a stat padding match as there are virtually NO DEATHS for a 6 round tango of ancient hypergate. Honestly not impressed as any 2 guilds can simul queue against each other and pull out stats like that.

 

On another note, smash is fine...aside from this "free bump" i'm providing it really is pointless to create and fuel threads like this as it really shows what kind of person you really are. Yes I play a sweep guardian and i consider myself a good player. But to spit out ignorance such as "3 button faceroll" class just screams (T_T).

 

-Does sweep/smash require a lower learning curve than some classes?

That's all a matter of opinion. Any class is easy if you've played it from the start. IMO I feel like my powertech and sniper is easier to play. Thats my opinion of course and is in no way proven fact.

 

-Does it require only 3 buttons? You can play with only 3 buttons all you want but get used to the respawn area if you truly feel that way. Maybe 3 buttons in the optimal smash setup, but combat focus is on a CD. every other situation requires buildup of singularity through force exhaustion.

 

Long story short...play your own class and stop crying. Every class fills a niche in PvP (except powertechs/vanguards but theres already a thread about how Bioware/EA shafted them). Things like this makes you look like a toddler with his arms crossed, lips stuck out, stomping around because someone beat you. I mean seriously look at the title of the thread for god's sake. ELITIST MUCH? And 1v1 is irrelevent because any competent team focus fires. Focused/simultaneous smashes will kill you just as fast as 4 snipers focus firing. Or four demo rounds/heatseeker missles etc. One common formula which applies to EVERY MMO is there will always be a FotM or class on top. WIth that comes nerfherders and the QQ brigade. As long as class diversity exists there will ALWAYS be a class that naturally outperforms better than others. When you nerf it, another takes it place and the crying for nerf refreshes itself until we are all slapping each other with glowing wet noodles and shooting spitballs at each other. If you can't accept this, Tetris™ may be your thing and it's that way ------>

 

EDIT:

 

 

Now despite my love for the focus guardian, I won't be ignorant in my assessment and I can say that it is slightly above the curve. If a nerf was in order, this seems like the most fair and logical one that wouldn't upset the balance of melee to range. Smash burst is needed, otherwise this game would turn into Call of Duty Online: Space Paladin Edition with gunslingers, snipers, sorcs/sages everywhere using target practice on melees. Focus/Rage spec is the squishy killer. That fact must be accepted. The purple lightning firing squads are balanced by the fact that a maraud/jugg sent/guardian can drop them quickly if they aren't on their toes. Eliminate this and who's to stop them?

 

The first picture was just showing that another class can do more damage than a smash spec . As for dps and overall damage every class can do just as much as the next. It's just someone whining because they got hit hard..once again. Wait till they get hit for 12k by a sniper. This thread is pointless.. Shadows can hit for 10k.,Ive also seen sorc/sages do big hits too and massive amounts of damage.

[Dasgruberg]

Yeah, nerf Smash BUT gives Warriors/Knights a Stunn like other classes have (the one Warriors/Knights have is actually a channel skill, can be interrupted by pushes/others CCs/Mezzs/etc...), gives Warriors/Knights a Cleanser or Save-Me-Im-Running-Fast button, etc........

 

Is nearly sure than u play an Inquisitor/Consular, dont? Well, how about a nerf to a class that really need it, in all their subclasses and trees except the shared Balance/Madness? The only real survavility cooldown of Warrior/Knight is the dmg they do, no other one, if it wasnt for the dmg they do they could be the new Commandos/Mercs.

 

Youre speaking for rage/focus spec only righT? As a vengance jugg i outlive any smasher. Try vengance, dont be a derp-smashbunny.

[mrekxxx]

i suggest contact moderator and he might delete immediately all qq posts, cuz thats terrible here ... or start some offtopic, this was nice forum but now gonna be crap and all we see are frustrated ******* who dont wanna learn this nice game and dont wanna read all the posts in class forums, because thats just much easier to start qq in 1 stupid thread instead reading 200 threads in class forum ... Edited May 1, 2013 by mrekxxx

[gtangtan]

Baddies will always cry about smash. It's not OP compared to other dps class. It's balanced. L2P, baddie.

[silvershadows]

Really? Name me 1 class that you use 15 different keybinds each warzone

 

 

Healing operative.

 

1) Kolto Injection

2) Surgical Probe

3) Evasion

4) Shield Probe

5) Exfiltrate

6) Hidden Strike

7) Backstab

8) Shiv

9) Sever Tendon

10) Stim Boost

11) Debilitate

12) Sleep Dart

13) Flashbang

14) Diagnostic Scan

15) Escape

16) Recuperative Nanotech

17) Distraction

18) Overload Shot

19) Toxin Scan

20) Orbital Strike

21) Adrenaline Probe

22) Stealth

23) Cloaking Screen

24) Kolto Probe

25) Warzone Medpac

 

How about 25 different keybinds?

 

And yes, I use every single one, every single warzone.

Edited May 1, 2013 by silvershadows

[DarkSaberMaster]

Nerf everything from every class and every spec in the game!!

 

It's all op!!!!

 

 

The Snipers/Slingers must be loving all these nerf Smash threads.

 

Sure am. The more people cry about Smash/Sweep, the longer we stay under the radar lol. But yeah. NERF SMASH!!! It's OPed!!!!

[evilmoka]

Im keeping this post alive until I get a response.

 

Otherwise all classes desrve an up to 11k spammable aoe attack so we can all be "pro"

[Yamahara]

Baddies will always cry about smash. It's not OP compared to other dps class. It's balanced. L2P, baddie.

 

This. And I use 22 key binds when I play on my Focus spec guardian. I can do just as much damage on my Op no problem as well..Your just a pug who doesn't know how to fight against smash spec, the end. Your one person that doesn't matter.

[silvershadows]

Im keeping this post alive until I get a response.

 

Otherwise all classes desrve an up to 11k spammable aoe attack so we can all be "pro"

 

Cause you can totally spam smash/force sweep, it has no cooldown and costs no rage and doesn't require any stacks of a buff or anything to do max damage. And it ALWAYS hits for 11k, ALWAYS.

 

 

... Hyperbole, much?

Edited May 1, 2013 by silvershadows

[mrekxxx]

Youre speaking for rage/focus spec only righT? As a vengance jugg i outlive any smasher. Try vengance, dont be a derp-smashbunny.

 

this is invalid argument, outlive any smasher ... smashers are not supposed to play solo 1vs1, they fight against grp and with a healer ... vengeance is still underpowered though and not sure if usefull in rateds ...sentinel brings predation, but why bring venge instead smasher or sentinel? only when you dont have enough skilled ppl in a guild, or some1 is skilled and loves it so much ... and venge hits 5k, smash 11k like some1 said

Edited May 2, 2013 by mrekxxx