Shadows/assassins need a rebalance

[Astarica]

Maul with proc hits for like the mid 2K and crits in the high 5Ks. Two of those crits are 11K, an almost insurmountable amount of HP to come back from in most matchups unless you already used your generic DR CD ahead of time.

 

The problem is that there's only a 6-10% they'll both crit. The most likely scenario is that they both do not crit (~50%) where you take a quite mortal mid 4K damage from 2 Mauls. The other ~40% of the time one will crit for about 7K, which hurts but is manageable. When both crit you start out about 11K HP behind and probably won't be winning unless you've an extreme skill/gear advantage.

 

But that's only 6-10% of the time. It's also not that easy to get a Spike on someone especially in any kind of large scale fight just from the sheer number of AEs flying around. It's more probable in a 1on1, but in 1on1 you're generally fighting the best defensive classes in the game. It's not like people's going to send a DPS to guard a node solo unless they got no choice, and those classes do have CDs to deal with even both hits critting.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Astarica

[biowareftw]

Maul with proc hits for like the mid 2K and crits in the high 5Ks. Two of those crits are 11K, an almost insurmountable amount of HP to come back from in most matchups unless you already used your generic DR CD ahead of time.

 

The problem is that there's only a 6-10% they'll both crit. The most likely scenario is that they both do not crit (~50%) where you take a quite mortal mid 4K damage from 2 Mauls. The other ~40% of the time one will crit for about 7K, which hurts but is manageable. When both crit you start out about 11K HP behind and probably won't be winning unless you've an extreme skill/gear advantage.

 

But that's only 6-10% of the time. It's also not that easy to get a Spike on someone especially in any kind of large scale fight just from the sheer number of AEs flying around. It's more probable in a 1on1, but in 1on1 you're generally fighting the best defensive classes in the game. It's not like people's going to send a DPS to guard a node solo unless they got no choice, and those classes do have CDs to deal with even both hits critting.

 

Blackout look into it...

 

6-10 percent crits? *** are you smoking? You are damn near assured 9 percent more from a potency spell crit alone. The first maul? Yeah chances are it won't crit. Everyone has this problem, except for classes with an autocrit. Maul is one of the hardest hitting attacks in the game. What do you think other classes non crit for? Do you think a non crit shoot first/backblast hits like a truck?

 

Also...if you can't get a opener on a class that can forcesprint, improved stealth? How the hell do you think op/scoundrels are getting their opener that requires you be in back of the target?

 

Do you slowly walk up to people without blackout on?

/smh

[Astarica]

If your base crit is 25% chance to crit both hits is 6.25%. If it's 30% chance to crit both is 9%.

 

The 'both Mauls crit' chance is relatively low.

 

People way underestimate how hard it is to get behind someone in a large fight. Between the large number of AEs plus Sniper's ability to see stealth from really far away it's very likely you get seen, and besides the moment you come out someone will throw a taunt/stun on you anyway. If you're talking about 1on1, the classes you're likely to fight 1on1 are not classes you can easily get behind because they usually have stelath as well. Yes if a DPS is standing in the middle of nowhere you can probably beat him pretty easily 1on1 and there's no way he'll see you coming but why is a DPS standing in the middle of nowhere to begin with?

[biowareftw]

If your base crit is 25% chance to crit both hits is 6.25%. If it's 30% chance to crit both is 9%.

 

The 'both Mauls crit' chance is relatively low.

 

People way underestimate how hard it is to get behind someone in a large fight. Between the large number of AEs plus Sniper's ability to see stealth from really far away it's very likely you get seen, and besides the moment you come out someone will throw a taunt/stun on you anyway. If you're talking about 1on1, the classes you're likely to fight 1on1 are not classes you can easily get behind because they usually have stelath as well. Yes if a DPS is standing in the middle of nowhere you can probably beat him pretty easily 1on1 and there's no way he'll see you coming but why is a DPS standing in the middle of nowhere to begin with?

 

I don't need the first maul to crit, to wreck someones day. I don't even need the freakin knockdown opener.

 

On dps sorcs (bubblemes), I open with a potency project, breach, low slash maul. Over half there health is gone and I have a stun left on a NON crit. I am also rocking 9 percent more crit when I open with a spell.

 

This class? It really doesn't matter. Unlike a scoundrel/op? You don't need your opener, and you aren't forced to bubblemes yourself on it...

 

Hell most of the time I open with a spike because morons trinket the @%$@, and I can stun them and them maul the @!@% out of them, or it is because it is a marauder and I don't want them popping rebuke/cloak before I get a maul in.

 

Double project/3 stack breach (have it every time we restealth now), with force potency = we were one of the classes LEAST hit by the crit nerf. Add to that it procs 9 percent more crit. If anything the crit nerf made this spec STRONGER.

[Darthdaedric]

I don't need the first maul to crit, to wreck someones day. I don't even need the freakin knockdown opener.

 

On dps sorcs (bubblemes), I open with a potency project, breach, low slash maul. Over half there health is gone and I have a stun left on a NON crit. I am also rocking 9 percent more crit when I open with a spell.

 

This class? It really doesn't matter. Unlike a scoundrel/op? You don't need your opener, and you aren't forced to bubblemes yourself on it...

 

Hell most of the time I open with a spike because morons trinket the @%$@, and I can stun them and them maul the @!@% out of them, or it is because it is a marauder and I don't want them popping rebuke/cloak before I get a maul in.

 

Double project/3 stack breach (have it every time we restealth now), with force potency = we were one of the classes LEAST hit by the crit nerf. Add to that it procs 9 percent more crit. If anything the crit nerf made this spec STRONGER.

 

>Claiming a huge crit nerf made a heavy crit relying class stronger based on a temporary bonus(+9 to crit for 10 seconds), that requires you to crit in the first place...

Wat.

[biowareftw]

>Claiming a huge crit nerf made a heavy crit relying class stronger based on a temporary bonus(+9 to crit for 10 seconds), that requires you to crit in the first place...

Wat.

 

Yes cus it didn't hit scoundrel/op's just as hard.

 

Oh wait...they used a pve set to give us 15 percent more crit because our pvp set bonus was garbage lol. So the crit nerf hit them harder...

 

My shadow on the other hand? Best set bonus ever. Fully stacked breach every time I restealth. Awesome...

 

About the only specs the crit nerf didn't hit hard were hybrid sorcs (who got the buff they wanted), and rage/focus, which got nerfed in other ways. Carnage has a force scream crit, but losing crit was hardly a great thing to happen to them lol.

 

I love how people who are in complete denial act as if they are the only class affected by a change like this.

 

Lots of AC's have a dmg bonus to crits. and the ones hit hardest are the ones with the least mitigation/softest targets. AKA scoundrel/op.

 

All the crit change did, and all the other asinine changes did was further the gap between the two stealth classes.

 

I have said it before and I will say it again. It is an absolute joke that there are only 2 stealth classes and one counters the other and everything else as well. Bioware has one big matchup they have to make somewhat even (ninja/defense stealth) and they screw it up more and more every patch.

 

I mean the hubris of you people. Derp yeah we counter everything, but thats ok. Derp, crit only affected us. Derp, who cares if we are OP 1 v 1, we also have awesome mitigation. Derp we are cloth, even though you aren't cloth and have more mitigation then medium armor from critting then a scoundrel/op does, and that is BEFORE blackout, 25 percent, and 30 percent aoe mitigation, which makes a stealth class? Completely front line viable (which is stupid). Derp being immune to CC and killing people is balanced.

 

This class is every bit as OP as vanilla scoundrel. The burst might be less, but the mitigation is just stupid and makes it every bit as OP.

 

Can't wait till everyone pulls there sins/shadows out of retirement...Seeing this and sorc were by FAR the most popular classes at release...should be interesting.

 

I heard all the PT's and Vanguards jumped for joy when crit got nerfed. Didn't effect them at all. L O L.

 

MM snipers? HELLS YEAH. Crit nerf WOO HOO. Arsenal? YEAH BRAH LESS CRIT /dance

Edited April 21, 2013 by biowareftw

[Sarenne]

Here's a parse from a full length AHG from last night. I'm a few pieces short of full Partisan, with the rest being bolstered EWH.

 

TORParse

 

You can see the maul hitting for a max of 8155, and it only crits for 22% of the time. The average Maul damage is only ~3300 for me currently, on par with Discharge. Lowered damage Shock and Voltaic Slash are still the majority of my damage over the course of a warzone.

 

^This. Played deception only since launch and Monterone's damage and crit % is spot-on with my own. ~3300 and 22% . Monterone, you obviously know this spec. the way biowareftw talks he's got crits flying out his a@@. I call BS.

[biowareftw]

^This. Played deception only since launch and Monterone's damage and crit % is spot-on with my own. ~3300 and 22% . Monterone, you obviously know this spec. the way biowareftw talks he's got crits flying out his a@@. I call BS.

 

Newsflash. No one has crits flying out of their @$#, and the ones that do crit on one spell. What are there? 3 specs that do (minus crit on a snipe on a long cooldown, which isn't exactly world shattering).

 

Maul has bonus dmg modifiers, 6 percent, then 30 percent on proc, then 6 percent on stun. This isn't a "soft hitting spell". This is one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game when it doesn't crit.

 

I can kill someone very easily without one maul critting. It is that broken. Thanks for bumping this though!

 

I am sure someone at Bioware/EA has a clue, and can look into the "metrics". I expect those metrics to look pretty damn silly soon, as far as massive rerolls, and numbers of sins/shadows in warzones...

 

Funny that the only people who think a sin/shadow is balanced atm are sins/shadows who don't play other classes. What does this remind me of...Oh yeah, every OP spec/class in every MMO ever.

Edited April 21, 2013 by biowareftw

[Moriganno]

Well biowareftw, upload a parse to TORparse.com and show us what you are made of. I'm sure everyone would learn something outta it ty

[biowareftw]

Well biowareftw, upload a parse to TORparse.com and show us what you are made of. I'm sure everyone would learn something outta it ty

 

Why do I need to? I have tons of screenshots s@#$#$@ on peoples damage with all my classes. I already linked them when I got called a liar and told I didn't have a shadow/sin.

 

Bioware/EA can look at my classes/metrics and others. It doesn't take a genius to figure out something is FUBAR here.

 

On my scoundrel if I open up on someone without a dedicated healer, I might kill them but I am taking a dirt nap, without vanish up. On a sin/shadow I can down 2 before I need to vanish and I am in a hell of a lot better shape.

 

One class is "working as intended" one is broken. One needs a bit more mitigation, and one classes mitigation needs gutted or their burst nerfed. The burst would effect pve. The mitigation nerf would hurt nothing for the pve crowd.

 

Here let me foretell the future for you. In a few weeks, when everyone has 55 augments, and all these people are playing 55 warzones?

 

You are going to see the following.

 

1. Nerf shadow/sin posts on the entire front page (worse then smash, because when a stealth is op? People are PIS@ED, see vanilla scoundrel, which was the biggest cry for a nerf I have ever seen lol).

2. Nerf healing/tanking threads.

 

Bioware/EA ain't gonna nerf the pve specs. If they don't address this soon? Expect a TO THE GROUND nerf. Then people will troll us, just as badly as you people are trolling PT's/vanguards right now.

 

After the overnerf? I will say...

 

Told you so. Better this is addressed now. But whatever. Dig your own graves.

Edited April 21, 2013 by biowareftw

[MotorCityMan]

Not me, I won't be making any nerf sins/shadow posts because I just rolled one.

[Calvin_Mago]

Why do I need to? I have tons of screenshots s@#$#$@ on peoples damage with all my classes. I already linked them when I got called a liar and told I didn't have a shadow/sin.

 

Bioware/EA can look at my classes/metrics and others. It doesn't take a genius to figure out something is FUBAR here.

 

...

Here let me foretell the future for you. In a few weeks, when everyone has 55 augments, and all these people are playing 55 warzones?

 

You are going to see the following.

 

1. Nerf shadow/sin posts on the entire front page (worse then smash, because when a stealth is op? People are PIS@ED, see vanilla scoundrel, which was the biggest cry for a nerf I have ever seen lol).

2. Nerf healing/tanking threads.

 

Bioware/EA ain't gonna nerf the pve specs. If they don't address this soon? Expect a TO THE GROUND nerf. Then people will troll us, just as badly as you people are trolling PT's/vanguards right now.

 

After the overnerf? I will say...

 

Told you so. Better this is addressed now. But whatever. Dig your own graves.

All I see is whiners running to the forums after they see a shadow/sin get a string of maul crits and nuke someone in the broken lowbies, where time to kill for every class is ridiculously short and crit is artificially high.

 

Players who have been playing deception for any decent length of time know that the class is relatively worse off than in 1.7 in the level 55 bracket, with the lower crit chance, better tanks and healers in 2.0, and people with 30-40k HP.

 

As for biowareftw, YOU HAVEN'T EVEN REACHED LEVEL 55, so stop spamming mis-information all over the forums!

Edited April 21, 2013 by Calvin_Mago

[Horkey]

Why do I need to? I have tons of screenshots s@#$#$@ on peoples damage with all my classes. I already linked them when I got called a liar and told I didn't have a shadow/sin.

 

Bioware/EA can look at my classes/metrics and others. It doesn't take a genius to figure out something is FUBAR here.

 

On my scoundrel if I open up on someone without a dedicated healer, I might kill them but I am taking a dirt nap, without vanish up. On a sin/shadow I can down 2 before I need to vanish and I am in a hell of a lot better shape.

 

One class is "working as intended" one is broken. One needs a bit more mitigation, and one classes mitigation needs gutted or their burst nerfed. The burst would effect pve. The mitigation nerf would hurt nothing for the pve crowd.

 

Here let me foretell the future for you. In a few weeks, when everyone has 55 augments, and all these people are playing 55 warzones?

 

You are going to see the following.

 

1. Nerf shadow/sin posts on the entire front page (worse then smash, because when a stealth is op? People are PIS@ED, see vanilla scoundrel, which was the biggest cry for a nerf I have ever seen lol).

2. Nerf healing/tanking threads.

 

Bioware/EA ain't gonna nerf the pve specs. If they don't address this soon? Expect a TO THE GROUND nerf. Then people will troll us, just as badly as you people are trolling PT's/vanguards right now.

 

After the overnerf? I will say...

 

Told you so. Better this is addressed now. But whatever. Dig your own graves.

 

Have even played in level 55 bracket?Crit rating has been nerfed which means that maul will crit very rarely. Even if they do they still don't hit like some sniper abilites. Everyone has a lot hp, armor rating and a lot of survivebility in general. So assassins/shadows can't burst or stunlock to death anyone. And once their burst is gone they are like sitting ducks beacuse of no sustained. Add a healer to opposition and they can't almost anyone. So no, class is not a god mode. . All you have to do is slow them, root them and make sure they get behind as few times as possible.

However in pre 55 wz they do seem to take out ppl extremely fast. But so do snipers, marauders etc. so thats more of a bolster issue.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Horkey

[Astarica]

Right now at level 55 it usually works out if you crit two of your big attacks in a row the other guy isn't going to come back from that, but the chance of doing that, unless your big attack is Smash, is usually on the order of 6-10%. This means you can sometimes get totally owned and then next time you'd be wondering how you ever lost to that guy.

 

That said I think this makes sense, because critical attack isn't something that's supposed to happen 50% of the time. It's supposed to be rare and it's supposed to hurt a lot when things crit. It adds a bit of uncertainty knowing that even if everything goes right, sometimes the crits just might not go your way.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Astarica

[stephenalandavie]

All the front line classes have 9 and 10k big hitters even commandos have them (Well needed). I am running 55 at the minute and if a sniper locks onto me while i am moving out of stealth 2-3 gcds i am gone.

[Jayshames]

Making the Duplicity proc from Low Slash and Spike deal 50% damage would be an easy fix. Though, I don't really care because this game is RNG and you can pummel someone in one fight and then be on the receiving end next time. Edited April 21, 2013 by Jayshames

[Forsaked]

All the front line classes have 9 and 10k big hitters even commandos have them (Well needed). I am running 55 at the minute and if a sniper locks onto me while i am moving out of stealth 2-3 gcds i am gone.

 

Lie, Vanguards/Powertechs cant pass 6,xK on HiB/Railshot... which is the Special with the most DMG on this class!

Edited April 21, 2013 by Forsaked

[manlysnowball]

Yes me saying one of my classes is grossly OP compared to the other stealther means I am an @$@hole. You and others defending what is clearly OP (and everyone knows it), means you are gentlemen and scholars.

 

If this doesn't get addressed soon, know what you get? Nerfed to the ground like my scoundrel did at release. Don't say I didn't warn you though...

 

The funny thing?A This is going to be a much larger problem. There is already a VERY high population of sin/shadows. There were very few scoundrel/ops when they were nerfed.

 

I was talking about the tone of you posts tbh.

 

Now on topic, I have a 80 valor Operative (played through the BM token days) and the sole reason I rolled a Sin/Shadow was becasue this class was my hard counter. I think the Infil tactics proc. on kick and Low slash is nessesary, I see them as hidden strike and backstab analoges, but they don't apply a dot.

 

The damage is not the problem, I think the utility might be, thats what I used to qq about to my buddies and I think, correct me if I'm wrong, its gotten better. That said if you defensive skills are or cooldown and you overextend, then your dead.

 

If anything needs a SLIGHT change its the classes utility.

[Xsorus]

So high damage hits on Pyro PT were bad, but 8k-9k Mauls 8k-9k Smashes are perfectly reasonable (same with Ambush on Sniper doing 10k)

[Kegparty]

Complain about this class... it gets nerfed.. now complain about that class... it gets nerfed... now oh sh*t my class is getting complained about.

 

Why dont you post a constructive post about what to buff the other classes with. The nerf bat is why things are in the state they are right now.

[Vember]

I get hit by 9k grav rounds...nerf commandos!

 

I play Darkness assassin, and pretty much eat deception assassins without too much trouble. You know which stealther completely wrecks me though? Operatives/Scoundrels. if my break free is on cooldown, a scoundrel/op wlil leave me at 20% before I even get up off the ground.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Vember

[CBRGhostRider]

Did any of you crybabies complain about balance back when deception was a complete joke of a spec to play? No... didn't think so. Bioware finally got it right on deception.

[Tankqull]

Did any of you crybabies complain about balance back when deception was a complete joke of a spec to play? No... didn't think so. Bioware finally got it right on deception.

 

nope they don´t im playing an inf-shadow currently and the burst is too high, but every point of reduced burst must be added to the mid-longterm dps.

[jmsutton]

I literally don't know what the OP is talking about, I've been eating face on my Concealment Operative. They're doing great from what I can see. Sure, not the BEST, but they can definitely hold their own.

[Neoforcer]

People getting hit for 8k to 9k mauls should go look at the record thread found here 2.0 Individual Class Records . Because all classes have had hits regularly for 8k to 10k . So if hitting for 8k to 10k is OP then all classes need a nerf.

 

Commando 10k in 2.0

Snipper 9k hit 2.0

Dps Jug 8500 hit 2.0

Assasin 8865 hit in 2.0

 

This is just a few as time goes on and people hit 55 there will be a lot more player's hitting for over 8k to 10k with any of the AC.

 

What the QQers want is sin/shadows to hit with Qtips for like 2dps because were a stealth class and have so much utility we should do no dps at all that's fair right? If your not hitting for 8k to 10k on your class your doing it wrong this means you need to do some research into rotation spec or what stats you need to stack. Because all classes have the potential to hit for 9k.

 

Now take into account that right now bolster is giving more stats to player's in raid gear over full pvp gear and say that this will not change some what when they fix bolster. Because right now it not the classes being OP it a screwed up bolster system causing really good players to hit like this in mostly raid gear.