A New Versus Series!

[Beniboybling]

I'm not sure I'm understanding the request. Do you want them to be at a time when they didn't have handicaps, or simply remove their handicaps?

The former I think, what I'm suggesting is that we consider all these characters at the height of their power rather as opposed to the point at which all the deficiencies the ever acquired had been acquired - which I feel is as ambiguous as it sounds. And I do believe that Traya as a Sith Lord and Plagueis before suffering his injury are them at their height.

 

In general I just feel it's a more clear cut and accurate description. But the decision is up to you.

[Aurbere]

The former I think, what I'm suggesting is that we consider all these characters at the height of their power rather as opposed to the point at which all the deficiencies the ever acquired had been acquired - which I feel is as ambiguous as it sounds. And I do believe that Traya as a Sith Lord and Plagueis before suffering his injury are them at their height.

 

In general I just feel it's a more clear cut and accurate description. But the decision is up to you.

 

I suppose I can agree with that, Plagueis would disagree though.

[sell-dog]

And I do believe that Traya as a Sith Lord and Plagueis before suffering his injury are them at their height.

 

I believe Plagueis mastered midichlorian manipulation with his respirator as after that attack he became a hermit and Sidious did all the Grand Plan leg work. Isn't the point at which Plagueis masters minichlorian manipulation his height of power?

[LadyKulvax]

Aurbere, you remember when you said my thread might come in handy earlier than thought, I would be most interested to see what you meant by that. *hint hint*

[Aurbere]

Aurbere, you remember when you said my thread might come in handy earlier than thought, I would be most interested to see what you meant by that. *hint hint*

 

I was actually going to draw up a Obi-Wan vs. Exar Kun analysis for that thread, but I didn't see the need at the time. Perhaps the thread wouldn't have gone on for so long if I did.

 

But I have been itching to just write up some analyses on certain match-ups that I've thought of while I work on gathering more information for Round 2. Just a little side thing, maybe the match-ups that I don't use for exhibitions.

 

Hey, maybe my first one will be Obi-Wan vs. Exar Kun.

[Aurbere]

But I have been itching to just write up some analyses on certain match-ups that I've thought of while I work on gathering more information for Round 2. Just a little side thing, maybe the match-ups that I don't use for exhibitions.

 

Hey, maybe my first one will be Obi-Wan vs. Exar Kun.

 

I think I will pursue this idea. And I think my first one will be inspired by our friendly neighborhood Vitiate [REDACTED] S_W_LeGenD! I'll try to get that posted here tomorrow.

[Aurbere]

I think I will pursue this idea. And I think my first one will be inspired by our friendly neighborhood Vitiate [REDACTED] S_W_LeGenD! I'll try to get that posted here tomorrow.

 

I'm going to get it posted in a few hours, after I run my errands.

[Aurbere]

Quadruple post, but I may as well post it now since it's all written up. As a quick backstory for writing this: I was reading through the REAL Most Powerful Series (mostly for the savage beatdowns Beni gives Legend) when I came upon an assertion made by S_W_LeGenD. Needless to say, I decided to take it upon myself to write something up. So here it is!

 

Emperor Vitiate vs. Grand Master Yoda

 

Lightsaber Skill:

 

Emperor Vitiate:

 

Vitiate shows little to no skill in lightsaber combat, most likely because he spent most of his time studying the greater mysteries of the dark side.

 

Grand Master Yoda:

 

Master Yoda was the greatest lightsaber duelist in the Order. Over eight hundred years of Jedi training produced an undisputed master of lightsaber combat. He was master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, but his chosen form was the fourth Form: Ataru. Ataru was considered to be the height of Jedi combat disciplines, a Form where a Jedi utilized the Force to turn themselves into a pinwheel of destruction that could move at impossible speeds. Yoda exemplifies this belief perfectly.

 

Yoda ever only had three equals in lightsaber combat, Weapon Master Mace Windu, Swordmaster Dooku, and Darth Sidious.

 

Edge: Yoda. Obviously the eight hundred year veteran will be superior to the scholar who has rarely ever used a lightsaber.

 

Physicality:

 

Emperor Vitiate:

 

The Emperor has experienced a great deal of immersion in the dark side, as such his body has suffered from its debilitating effects. Other than that, there is nothing special about him physically.

 

Grand Master Yoda:

 

Yoda is a veritable ancient. His body has weakened significantly to the point that walking gives him some difficulty, thus he often uses a hoverchair movement. However, by using the Force he is able to defy his age to perform high-level acrobatics and move with impossible speed.

 

Edge: They both have their own disadvantages. Yoda is ancient, and Vitiate suffers from bodily degradation. However, Vitiates body doesn’t decay incredibly rapidly, and Yoda can use the Force to overcome his age. It is likely that Vitiate would be capable of moving quickly, so an edge can’t be given

 

Mentality:

 

Emperor Vitiate:

 

The Sith Emperor was devoid of any empathy or any kind of emotion, save one: fear. Despite considering himself a god, the Emperor fears death, and every ambition and action he took after settling his Empire was to avoid death by any means necessary. He has become extremely paranoid because of this.

 

In addition to his fear of death, the Emperor seems to display a degree of tunnel vision. During the duel with Revan and his followers he was primarily focused on Revan and almost oblivious to the actions of Meetra Surik or T3-M4 until their attacks entered his trajectory. Quick reflexes and Meetra Surik’s decision to save Revan were his saving grace during the confrontation, which could very well have ended in his death.

 

Grand Master Yoda:

 

To Padawans, Master Yoda was an omniscient being who could be wise, caring, and severe all at once. To Jedi Masters, Yoda was impossibly wise and always knew what to say or what to do.

 

During the Clone Wars, Yoda served as the chief military advisor to Chancellor Palpatine. He was a capable battlefield tactician, but this didn’t transcend to lightsaber duels. In lightsaber combat, Yoda generally preferred to overwhelm his opponent with his lightsaber skill and Force abilities.

 

Yoda was also a capable proponent of the Jedi Dun Moch tactic, the Jedi tactic of psychological warfare designed to taunt opponents into making mistakes, or convincing them to surrender.

 

Edge: They are fairly even here. It is unlikely that Vitiate would be swayed by Yoda’s use of Dun Moch, and they both have their own tactical shortcomings.

 

Force Abilities:

 

Emperor Vitiate:

 

Emperor Vitiate was the most powerful Sith Lord in the Sith Empire, and the most powerful Sith in the Sith Order’s history. His command of the dark side was supreme to the point that, as a mere child, he was capable of snapping the necks of others and draining their lives.

 

At the closing of the Great Hyperspace War, Vitiate gathered many of the Sith Empire’s servants on Nathema and enacted a ritual that drained the planet of all life and Force energy. Vitiate served as the nexus of this energy, gathering it within himself to make himself immortal.

 

Over the next millennia, Vitiate delved into the secrets of the dark side, focusing on powerful Sith Sorcery in order to make himself completely unstoppable and the supreme ruler of the galaxy. Vitiates studies opened him to many powerful rituals, which he used to quell insurrections.

 

In addition to a deep knowledge of Sith Sorcery, Vitiate was a powerful master of many other abilities.

 

His mastery of Force lightning was incredible. Simple bursts of lightning were able to destroy droids, melt metal, and potentially kill powerful Force users. His advanced uses of Force lightning manifested in his ability to summon storms of lightning with ease to overwhelm his opponents.

 

Vitiate could also unleash powerful Force Waves to hurl Force users with ease. He could also create powerful defenses shields to protect himself from physical attacks, and summon Force Illusions to attack his foes with.

 

Most infamously, however, is his ability to dominate the minds of others. Only the most strong-willed of individuals have been able to resist his influence, others have been turned into puppets of his will.

 

Grand Master Yoda:

 

Master Yoda was the most powerful Jedi in the Order’s history. As such, he was an immensely powerful Jedi Master. He was a master of practically every ability in the Jedi Order’s arsenal, from incredibly powerful applications of basic abilities, to powerful esoteric applications.

 

Master Yoda’s telepathic abilities were profound. He could read the minds of other Jedi with such ease that he seemed omniscient, and even enter the minds of other Jedi to see through their eyes. He was also a master of the Jedi Mind Trick with abilities ranging from subtle influence, outright mind control, and even erasing memories with ease. He was also a master of Battle Meditation.

 

Yoda’s abilities for Farsight were renowned, however Darth Sidious’ machinations stunted these abilities. But most importantly was his knowledge of the nature of Force visions. His wisdom in this area was of great benefit to Luke Skywalker even decades after his death.

 

However, Yoda’s precognitive abilities were very impressive. Even when under the dark side pressure of Vjun, Yoda’s precognitive abilities allowed him to sense attacks before his opponents could even make them, allowing him to dodge the attack and leave his opponent dumbfounded.

 

Yoda’s esoteric abilities were quite profound. He was a powerful user of Force Stealth, able to conceal himself in the Force even on the dark side nexus of Vjun. He could manipulate the environment around him to the point that he could manipulate the environment to resist the vacuum of space.

 

Yoda’s mastery of Force speed was beyond incredible. He could move with such speed that three of the Order’s most respected swordsmen were unable to touch him and, to onlookers, it seemed that he hadn’t moved more than a meter. His speed was such that he was able to lay waste to a small army of battle droids, and keep pace with Darth Sidious, a Sith Lord whose speed caught even Mace Windu off guard.

 

Yoda’s mastery of tutaminis was such that he could catch and redirect Force lightning with his bare hands. He was even able to deflect and cage Darth Sidious’ Force lightning to the point that it caused a stalemate that ended in a powerful explosion.

 

Most impressive, however, were his telekinetic abilities. His ability to move heavy objects was beyond impressive. He was capable of lifting all six of the Jedi Muntuur Stones, though the dark side’s return stunted this ability, and even move multiple Trade Federation landing craft with ease.

 

Even better were his Force Waves. So powerful were these waves that he was capable of annihilating entire armies of battle droids with ease.

 

Edge: Two supremely powerful Force users. Two masters of their chosen paths. There can be no doubt that Vitiate is an immensely powerful Sith Lord. However, much of his power comes from his rituals, and his greatest combative abilities would seem to require preparation. And while Vitiate’s other combative abilities are powerful, they pale in comparison with Yoda’s. Vitiate can toss Force users around, but Yoda can destroy armies. Yoda is the superior Force user.

 

Verdict: Yoda would most likely attempt to defeat Vitiate with his superior lightsaber skill, but Vitiate would do his very best to keep Yoda away with Force abilities. If Vitiate were able to do this then Yoda would realize that that he wouldn’t be able to defeat him with his lightsaber, which would bring the confrontation to a Force battle. When that happens, Yoda is more than capable of repelling Vitiate’s lightning and outdoing Vitiate’s telekinetic abilities.

 

So I feel that Grand Master Yoda would be the most likely victor.

 

Not to add more to the pile or anything, but (IIRC) in the novel Darth Plagueis Sidious swears to never let his guard down. If this is true, what does this (1:40) say about Yoda?

 

One of the reasons I didn't include that bit was because I couldn't remember that bit from Darth Plagueis very well.

 

Anyway, these posts are just for fun (and not at all distracting from the more important posts ), really, but if anyone thinks of a good match, go ahead and auggest it to me. I think the next one will be this suggestion by Selenial:

 

I'd say Darth Traya (allowed the full extent of her Force drain, unlike previous Battlezones) against Maul, Sabers vs Strategy, Force vs Blade... Would be pretty cool, though tbh it's also a nice way for me to find Pro-Maul and Pro-Traya arguments XD

[Beniboybling]

Nice work! Another resounding defeat from the great and might Emperor Vitiate .

 

And are we going to be able to debate any of these? Because if you think I'll agree with all your verdicts, well *chortle* you've got another thing coming my friend...

[Aurbere]

Nice work! Another resounding defeat from the great and might Emperor Vitiate .

 

And are we going to be able to debate any of these? Because if you think I'll agree with all your verdicts, well *chortle* you've got another thing coming my friend...

 

Of course you can debate them. How about this. I'll post an idea, and if people think it is worthy of debate, then I'll make a thread for it. Sound good?

[Beniboybling]

Of course you can debate them. How about this. I'll post an idea, and if people think it is worthy of debate, then I'll make a thread for it. Sound good?

Now that is an elegant solution.

[Aurbere]

Now that is an elegant solution.

 

Great!

 

So let's take a vote. Traya vs. Maul, thread-worthy?

[Wolfninjajedi]

On Aurbere, Yoda also does know Force Light, Battle Meditation, Immovability, Alter Environment just a few more to add.

 

He also does have a strength feat that I have gathered, he carried and tossed a create which inside had a large cannon and threw it for miles without any apparant strain(though can't post the scans now...). Of course this was Force Valor, but still a strength feat none the less.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

On Aurbere, Yoda also does know Force Light, Battle Meditation, Immovability, Alter Environment just a few more to add.

 

He also does have a strength feat that I have gathered, he carried and tossed a create which inside had a large cannon and threw it for miles without any apparant strain(though can't post the scans now...). Of course this was Force Valor, but still a strength feat none the less.

 

Well I did make mention of Alter Environment, but thanks for pointing the rest out.

[Beniboybling]

Great!

 

So let's take a vote. Traya vs. Maul, thread-worthy?

Well, I don't know about that one. In all honesty Traya could probably just Force choke in right off the bat.

 

Or zap him with lightning and then choke him.

[Darkelefantos]

Nothing personal, but I'm no fan of comparing SWTOR characters to, well nearly everyone. The game has been out for about 2 years, so the first characters we were introduced to are like what, 4 years old? Compare that to Yoda, we've known him for nearly 10 times as long. Even if he wasn't already canonically more powerful than anyone in this game, we'd still have so much more information about him that a head to head comparison would always go in favour of him.

And then this special case, the Emperor - his appearances have been... scarce, displays of his power even more so. In fact, in game he generally only appears when it's time for his body to die. And while he is canonically the strongest Sith in the Empire, there would be enough evidence to support that Darth Malgus is more powerful. In fact, Malgus is the one exception in SWTOR who has enough material to be compared to other canon characters.

 

A Traya vs Maul comparison seems interesting. However, I feel that the Lightsaber and physicality aspects should pretty clearly go towards Maul and the Force aspect to Traya, with mentality the only thing really up for debate. But which is more important?

 

PS: Since I've gone this far already, why has none of you ever bothered making a Tulak Hord thread? Would be nice to see, to be honest.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Darkelefantos

[Wolfninjajedi]

PS: Since I've gone this far already, why has none of you ever bothered making a Tulak Hord thread? Would be nice to see, to be honest.

 

Because there is such little information on him. All you have really got to go by, are character statements for the most part in regards to his power/skill.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Because there is such little information on him. All you have really to go by, are character statements for the most part in regards to his power/skill.

This, its surprising how many times people ask questions like this lol.

 

What is it with Tulak Hord!

[Darkelefantos]

Because there is such little information on him. All you have really to go by, are character statements for the most part in regards to his power/skill.

 

Yeah, but even so. I mean, if we go by those statements, Hord, who has *no* piece of work in Star Wars that he actually appears in by more than name, would be one of the most powerful characters in Star Wars. I mean, according to Kreia, he was an amazing duelist, greater than any of her time. Additionally, he created several rituals and the like, and he managed to telekinetically crash a ship the size of the Endar Spire.

I'm honestly wondering if Tulak Hord even was one person, or a collection of people turned into a single legend.

[Selenial]

Well, I don't know about that one. In all honesty Traya could probably just Force choke in right off the bat.

 

Or zap him with lightning and then choke him.

 

Maul is incredible powerful...

 

Aurbere, take away force drain and we have a very interesting duel...

 

Oh, and yay, One thread about Traya, and another about the two of them... My Kaggath arguments simply write themselves.

[Beniboybling]

Yeah, but even so. I mean, if we go by those statements, Hord, who has *no* piece of work in Star Wars that he actually appears in by more than name, would be one of the most powerful characters in Star Wars. I mean, according to Kreia, he was an amazing duelist, greater than any of her time. Additionally, he created several rituals and the like, and he managed to telekinetically crash a ship the size of the Endar Spire.

I'm honestly wondering if Tulak Hord even was one person, or a collection of people turned into a single legend.

Or a guy who came to be a legend through hearsay and exaggeration.

[Aurbere]

I won't be doing anything about Tulak Hord until we get more information on it.

[Beniboybling]

Maul is incredible powerful...

 

Aurbere, take away force drain and we have a very interesting duel...

 

Oh, and yay, One thread about Traya, and another about the two of them... My Kaggath arguments simply write themselves.

Is he? Is he? More powerful than Sion perhaps but not much more powerful, and even then you've got an uphill struggle arguing that. Then of course he's shown himself unable to deflect lightning... its not looking good for Maul.

 

Sure we could strip Traya of Force drain, but then what kind of win would that be? Not that she would need it to win.

[Selenial]

Is he? Is he? More powerful than Sion perhaps but not much more powerful, and even then you've got an uphill struggle arguing that. Then of course he's shown himself unable to deflect lightning... its not looking good for Maul.

 

Sure we could strip Traya of Force drain, but then what kind of win would that be? Not that she would need it to win.

 

Yes, much more powerful.

 

Tossed Kenobi round like a doll, oh, and what do you mean Unable? He walked through the lightning of an incredibly powerful Nightsister, who was feared by many, even considered a threat by sidious.

[Aurbere]

Well, I don't know about that one. In all honesty Traya could probably just Force choke in right off the bat.

 

Or zap him with lightning and then choke him.

 

Well, we'll see. I could probably get that posted right now, but it would be Traya vs. TPM Maul. It would take a few hours to watch all of the TCW episodes featuring Maul, and then a fair amount of time to judge his capabilities.