rlamela Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 We'll miss you. I won't. I wish all the bads who cry for nerfs would quit already. Jenna'syyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowVamp Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 QQ bloody Q, sage is no longer the free kill that it always was, I have to actually WORK for it now! I leap into melee, deal 7k aoe damage and then cry about the INJUSTICE of being stunned for 3 seconds! QQQQ and some more Q I'm quitting QQ! Except for the part where bioware has stated it's not working as intended and is just holding off on fixing it for a bigger patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonkiratainted Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) There is no way that I can out heal as a min/maxed Bubble Sage the combined DPS of multiple heavy burst classes (not just smashers). That's not to say I am a bad healer. In fact, I do quite well. Dude are you serious? Noone, I repeat, NOONE should be able to outheal/outlive being focused by multiple heavy burst classes... That's the whole IDEA of focus fire. On topic - the other day, I was defending one of the doors on Voidstar, and I looked at all the people at the other door - seeing all these bright flashes of light and began wondering if they were having a rave-party overthere... Edited February 20, 2013 by Amonkiratainted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) 1. Make bubble stun trigger on the casting sorc only 2. Get rid of smash as an aoe 3. Reduce the insane burst of some speccs 4. Let all PvP sets, including recruit, have the same amount of expertise 5. Make it absolutely indispensable to keep expertise maxed If all 5 points come together as a package -> PvP improvement. If only some of them come -> business as usual; new OP speccs + new garbage speccs will appear Edited February 20, 2013 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggz Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Nerf operatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) 1. Make bubble stun trigger on the casting sorc onlySounds like this is coming with the expansion. 2. Get rid of smash as an aoeThat would ruin the spec and would be more useless than arsenal. 3. Reduce the insane burst of some speccsBust is needed and most can be managed to a certain degree. 4. Let all PvP sets, including recruit, have the same amount of expertisealready confirmed that expertise will be the same across all gear levels. 5. Make it absolutely indispensable to keep expertise maxedIt seems the community is still quite divided on full expertise vs 12xx expertise. Not sure if increasing the importance of expertise would change anything for good or worse but an interesting debate. If all 5 points come together as a package -> PvP improvement. If only some of them come -> business as usual; new OP speccs + new garbage speccs will appear I honestly do not have an issue with smash, it is funny to see 4 people stacked up on top of each other and eat a smash. You can see it coming from a mile away and sometimes you cannot help it but they are squish so I don't have an issue dispatching them on my madness sin. Edited February 20, 2013 by cycao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelvannia Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I honestly do not have an issue with smash, it is funny to see 4 people stacked up on top of each other and eat a smash. You can see it coming from a mile away and sometimes you cannot help it but they are squish so I don't have an issue dispatching them on my madness sin. I honestly do not have an issue with bubble, it's funny to see 4 people stacked on top of the sage and eat a stun. They can see the bubble from a mile away (I don't think that this game has a graphic effect that's MORE prominent and easier to notice than the bubble), and yet not one of them thinks to burst it from range before leaping in. It's so much easier to blindly force charge in, smash, get stunned (*) then come to QQ on forums. (*) for gasp! WHOLE 3 SECONDS! During which the sage can do LIEK WHOLE 1000 DAMAGE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I honestly do not have an issue with bubble, it's funny to see 4 people stacked on top of the sage and eat a stun. They can see the bubble from a mile away (I don't think that this game has a graphic effect that's MORE prominent and easier to notice than the bubble), and yet not one of them thinks to burst it from range before leaping in. It's so much easier to blindly force charge in, smash, get stunned (*) then come to QQ on forums. (*) for gasp! WHOLE 3 SECONDS! During which the sage can do LIEK WHOLE 1000 DAMAGE!!! Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I honestly do not have an issue with smash, it is funny to see 4 people stacked up on top of each other and eat a smash. You can see it coming from a mile away and sometimes you cannot help it but they are squish so I don't have an issue dispatching them on my madness sin. Yeah, well, thanks for the insight. Bubble is OP but, smash ain't, says the smasher; smash is OP but the bubble is fine, says the bubbler... I say: Smash and the bubble both have to go because they destroy PvP fun for everybody else. It's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter_Mathis Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 No, don't go....... we'll miss you........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Yeah, well, thanks for the insight. Bubble is OP but, smash ain't, says the smasher; smash is OP but the bubble is fine, says the bubbler... I say: Smash and the bubble both have to go because they destroy PvP fun for everybody else. It's as simple as that. Well to each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Well to each their own. I really do feel caught in the crossfire. smash is bad, but bubble makes all of my melee unbearable. not impossible, just...wow. not worth playing. everyone's bubbled. everyone can stun you even while they, themselves, are stunned(!!!). of the two, bubble is far more game breaking - as in I no longer want to play rather than op, if that makes you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I really do feel caught in the crossfire. smash is bad, but bubble makes all of my melee unbearable. not impossible, just...wow. not worth playing. everyone's bubbled. everyone can stun you even while they, themselves, are stunned(!!!). of the two, bubble is far more game breaking - as in I no longer want to play rather than op, if that makes you feel better. Well people tend to forget that players were putting up similar numbers with rage before the spec got a buff out of nowhere and there were complaints but they don't hold a candle to what is going on now. People also rarely complained about bubble when it was a mez (as it should be) but now its a hard 3 sec stun which can somewhat be avoided. They could just revert back the changes instead of nerfing either spec or both into the ground which is what everyone seems to want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulman Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Well to each their own. I think it's more annoying than anything else. Almost every class in the game has something OP. The only class that can truely complain is commando/mercenary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulman Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Well people tend to forget that players were putting up similar numbers with rage before the spec got a buff out of nowhere and there were complaints but they don't hold a candle to what is going on now. People also rarely complained about bubble when it was a mez (as it should be) but now its a hard 3 sec stun which can somewhat be avoided. They could just revert back the changes instead of nerfing either spec or both into the ground which is what everyone seems to want. I agree. But people don't want balance. They want retribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelvannia Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) I really do feel caught in the crossfire. smash is bad, but bubble makes all of my melee unbearable. not impossible, just...wow. not worth playing. everyone's bubbled. everyone can stun you even while they, themselves, are stunned(!!!). of the two, bubble is far more game breaking - as in I no longer want to play rather than op, if that makes you feel better. You know what's the difference? Take away autocrit from smash and you still have a decent DPS (not gamebreaking FOTM level, but still perfectly viable). Take away stun on bubble and sages are left with absolutely NOTHING they could bring to the table that a scoundrel healer wouldn't do better. Scoundrels (and ops) got: comparable raw throughput when left alone SIGNIFICANTLY bigger throughput when focused better resource management, more mobility (can heal while running), more survivability (can boldly facetank stuff that would make a sage run screaming and whimpering for cover to franctically try to heal himself back up while his firends die), are harder to shut down (ever seen a scoundrel give you a cast bar to counter? Yeah, neither have I), stealth, getting back resource doesn't require them to spend health. comparable cc AoE heal which they can resonably spec into, and which isn't like painting a huge bullseye on the ground labelled "please smash here" Lower profile (nothing like healing trance beam to point back at the one healing your victim, innervate is even better at that) So, remind me, why would anyone want a sage over scoundrel in PVP after bubblestun is restricted to caster-only? Edited February 20, 2013 by Lelvannia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulman Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You know what's the difference? Take away autocrit from smash and you still have a decent DPS (not gamebreaking FOTM level, but still perfectly viable). Take away stun on bubble and sages are left with absolutely NOTHING they could bring to the table that a scoundrel healer wouldn't do better. Scoundrels (and ops) got: comparable raw throughput when left alone SIGNIFICANTLY bigger throughput when focused better resource management, more mobility (can heal while running), more survivability (can boldly facetank stuff that would make a sage run screaming and whimpering for cover to franctically try to heal himself back up while his firends die), are harder to shut down (ever seen a scoundrel give you a cast bar to counter? Yeah, neither have I), stealth, getting back resource doesn't require them to spend health. comparable cc AoE heal which they can resonably spec into, and which isn't like painting a huge bullseye on the ground labelled "please smash here" Lower profile (nothing like healing trance beam to point back at the one healing your victim, innervate is even better at that) So, remind me, why would anyone want a sage over scoundrel in PVP after bubblestun is restricted to caster-only? You forgot the biggest advantage. The ability to vanish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelvannia Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You forgot the biggest advantage. The ability to vanish. You know, I had this nagging feeling I left out something, but I just looked at the size of the list and went "awww heck, there CAN'T POSSIBLY be more" and posted. And yet, you're right, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You know what's the difference? Take away autocrit from smash and you still have a decent DPS (not gamebreaking FOTM level, but still perfectly viable). Take away stun on bubble and sages are left with absolutely NOTHING they could bring to the table that a scoundrel healer wouldn't do better. Scoundrels (and ops) got: comparable raw throughput when left alone SIGNIFICANTLY bigger throughput when focused better resource management, more mobility (can heal while running), more survivability (can boldly facetank stuff that would make a sage run screaming and whimpering for cover to franctically try to heal himself back up while his firends die), are harder to shut down (ever seen a scoundrel give you a cast bar to counter? Yeah, neither have I), stealth, getting back resource doesn't require them to spend health. comparable cc AoE heal which they can resonably spec into, and which isn't like painting a huge bullseye on the ground labelled "please smash here" Lower profile (nothing like healing trance beam to point back at the one healing your victim, innervate is even better at that) So, remind me, why would anyone want a sage over scoundrel in PVP after bubblestun is restricted to caster-only? ok. you're one of those guys. you have a case for sage/sorc dps needing this. healers do not. no. they don't. sage healing, even with the longer time to build resolve, is fine. ops is out of this world. merc is considerably more difficult than either (to pull the same numbers). sage healers are supposed to be squishy and require constant guards, taunts and peels. they definitely don't need bubble stun to be effective. two ops heals is going to really hurt you on maps like ahg and hb where their rescue pull is a valuable utility. an ops healer in hb is useless outside of healing output. he can't stealth and heal. if he stealths for intercede, he's not healing. sage rescue pulls out of the ahg deathbox are the most under-utilized, valuable utility in the wz. so what if it takes 2 tries to get off salvation? vstar, ahg, nc, cw all provide terrain that requires grp'd up melee. that means drop that salv, son! only baddies would refuse a good sage healer in lieu of two ops, skill being comparable. lastly, you realize that giant "target" on the floor also tells your team where to go for heals, right? look, I'm not saying sages are better healers than ops. but the argument that they'd be cut out of ops grps? puleeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelvannia Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) So in effect you're admitting that w/o stunbubble sages are free kills for anyone who feels like it (unless half the team works to keep them alive), but hey, that's okay, since free kills is what sages are supposed to be?! And: lastly, you realize that giant "target" on the floor also tells your team where to go for heals, right? Yeah, and gets them nicely bunched up for some smashing, which is my whole point. Considering that just one smash does like 3x the damage that Salv can heal (and most teams have on average 3 smashers now) you'd have to be an idiot not to run away from Salvation as fast as you can. And speaking of "utility" in huttball, if a sage can last more than 3 seconds in a place where a pull would be tactically advantageous, then the other team is - shall we say - not so good, and you'd win anyway. Actually, huttball, where you spend most of the time on exposed catenaries with almost no obstacles to hide behind is actually something of a sage hell. Ops? Of course no problems there, no need for LOS obstacles to hide behind, just goes to boldly facetank what no sage has facetanked before. Add to that the simple fact that they can actually follow the ball carrier WHILE healing them (instead of the sages usual mode of stop, heal, damn he run out of range, force speed to catch up, heal, damn he ran out of range again, oh looky looky here's a juggy about to smash your face in, too bad you just blew that force speed trying to catch up with tank, eh?). Sorry, but my points still hold, even in Huttball. Edited February 20, 2013 by Lelvannia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butwaldgrim Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 QQ bloody Q, sage is no longer the free kill that it always was, I have to actually WORK for it now! I leap into melee, deal 7k aoe damage and then cry about the INJUSTICE of being stunned for 3 seconds! QQQQ and some more Q I'm quitting QQ! Thank you! This really made me laugh, made my dreary day bright! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulman Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 ok. you're one of those guys. you have a case for sage/sorc dps needing this. healers do not. no. they don't. sage healing, even with the longer time to build resolve, is fine. ops is out of this world. merc is considerably more difficult than either (to pull the same numbers). sage healers are supposed to be squishy and require constant guards, taunts and peels. they definitely don't need bubble stun to be effective. two ops heals is going to really hurt you on maps like ahg and hb where their rescue pull is a valuable utility. an ops healer in hb is useless outside of healing output. he can't stealth and heal. if he stealths for intercede, he's not healing. sage rescue pulls out of the ahg deathbox are the most under-utilized, valuable utility in the wz. so what if it takes 2 tries to get off salvation? vstar, ahg, nc, cw all provide terrain that requires grp'd up melee. that means drop that salv, son! only baddies would refuse a good sage healer in lieu of two ops, skill being comparable. lastly, you realize that giant "target" on the floor also tells your team where to go for heals, right? look, I'm not saying sages are better healers than ops. but the argument that they'd be cut out of ops grps? puleeze. Requiring one class to have a partner class to be viable in pvp is not balance. Rated matches make up a very very small percentage of warzones. Bubbles were fine prior to buffing them. The reason we are in the situation that we are in is because over-the-top nerfs followed by over-the-top buffs. Balance will never be achieved this way. Changing the stun to self only will effectively make the that tree useless, unless other changes are made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusnl Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Watch out, this kitten has claws. Rawrrr Kitty come here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainCornbread Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 QQ bloody Q, sage is no longer the free kill that it always was, I have to actually WORK for it now! I leap into melee, deal 7k aoe damage and then cry about the INJUSTICE of being stunned for 3 seconds! QQQQ and some more Q I'm quitting QQ! Bubble is broken. And if you think differently, you're either blind or in denial. Before you accuse me of being biased, I have a sage. However I can admit there's balance issues there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeEvil Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Having pvp'd extensively with both a sage and a guardian i'd say both the bubble stun and the sweep/smash mechanics are broken. That being said i'd consider sweep/smash to be the more egregious offender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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