New Repair Costs Puts My Raiding to an End

[Cleet_Xia]

I pay the monthy fee so I can play the game my way. Part of the definition of "my way" is that I do the dailies maybe once a week for the weekly BH coms. I don't always though. I don't play the GTN cause that's not my bag.

 

It costs me 150k to repair my gear. I don't earn that much in a week of playing this game.

 

so ... sucks for me, yeah I get that - I know I'm not the only one.

 

Hopefully there's a fix incomming. Needing to do 2 days of dailies to pay for 1 night of raiding is ... well ... it's bs. No other way to say it.

 

If you do the weekly BH comm missions you earn more than 100K from those missions alone. It takes less than half an hour to do the BH dailies ~ no sympathy man ~ no sympathy.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Cleet_Xia

[Tatile]

Does anyone else kind of feel like this is Bioware saying "if you don't do it perfectly the first time, don't bother"?

[islander]

I dont know how long you have been playing this game. At this point, you cannot pay me for doing more dailies. If thats your solutions to getting money, then you are welcome to the credits. I would rather stick nails in my eye.

 

fortunately I am active on the GTN and crafting scene so I do all right, but for someone who does not want to loose 90 minues of their life, and does not play the GTN, money is an issue.

 

Unless ofc you are one of those who buy the 1800CC speeder and stick it on the GTN for 1mil and do it 5 times over.

 

I know a lot of people who only have 1 char and just come online to raid. For them to raid and not be able to sustain their raiding without doing the mind numbing dailies is impossible.

 

I've been playing since day -3. Subscriber all but one or two months when I went over to D3 and GW2 for a bit.

 

and no, I don't buy speeders to sell on the GTN, it's a terrible RoI. I do about 1.5 million credits in dailies a week as long as I don't have an account balance of 4 million. It's really not that boring to me, esepecially as I don't do the heroic 4's (massive time sink). Everything I do is soloable (including heroic 2+s), I get to kill pubs as I see them, and queue for warzones all the while.

 

Honestly, if you know 'so many people who log on just to raid' I'd suggest they just don't enjoy the game, and aren't really Bioware's target audience. Seriously, I'm a member in Memories of Xendor, world second 10 stack Dreadtooth downer. We have 3 teams raiding nightmare content week in and out. Very few of these folks are just logging in for raid nights on their raid character.

 

Exaggerate more.

 

Again, I will add that they should certainly tweak it downward a little bit, but this idea that raiding alone should COST you credits is well founded. You're gaining top end gear. No MMORPG's end game raiding is profitable in 'currency'.

Edited February 13, 2013 by islander

[Minack]

Why is it whenever there is a change that is detrimental to fun gameplay, there is always at least one person who jumps to BW's defense? Not only do they defend terrible BW decisions, they have to attack the player base for having the gall to complain. No wonder this community is a joke.

 

If you think the dailies grind is in any way fun then you really need to get out more. The costs were fine before and there was no need to adjust them higher.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Minack

[slafko]

Not only do they defend terrible BW decisions, they have to attack the player base for having the gall to complain. No wonder this community is a joke.

 

It's the same with every single game.

[Sydexlic]

SWTOR is stuck mimicking a gimped version of WoW from like 3 years ago and they don't seem able or willing to catch up, and their latest innovations are to try to ignore WoW and pretend they can do whatever they want without unfavorable comparisons?

 

You're trying to say this game should copy Mists of Pandaria era WoW? Yes, lets add farmville, pokemon and kung fu koala sith lords to this game (Koalas > Pandas), should breath a tonne of life into it. Also, lets dumb down content to ensure even little Timmy with his 1/2 a brain can do all the content and everyone now looks the same, has the same gear and feels just as accomplished as anyone else, despite how much effort they put in to the game.

 

What's that? You say achievements that aren't hard earned aren't really achievements? We at Bioware say to that ludicrous claim; "Pish Posh!", our focus groups have all told us, "WE LIKE DA FREE STUFFS WE PAY DA MOENIES FOR GAME SUB TOO".

 

OH YES, SPEAKING OF ACHIEVEMENTS! This game totally needs them. What better way to show someone how awesome you are than to display your arbitrarily valued accumulation of rewards for possum kissing and because you explored every last nook and cranny of Elwyn Forest. There is no better way, idiot! Totes, this games needs such a system.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Sydexlic

[islander]

Why is it whenever there is a change that is detrimental to fun gameplay, there is always at least one person who jumps to BW's defense? Not only do they defend terrible BW decisions, they have to attack the player base for having the gall to complain. No wonder this community is a joke.

 

If you think the dailies grind is in any way fun then you really need to get out more. The costs were fine before and there was no need to adjust them higher.

 

Because this nation is fulled with complainers, rather then adapters.

 

Back when I first started gaming, heck even if you want to just go back to the late 90's, the typical gamer was much, much more civilized and pliable.

 

Everyone these days wants everything spoon fed to them now, and then they gripe a week later that there's no content. it's one big cycle of terrible behavior being supported.

 

The dailies aren't that bad, the fun is with the company you keep. I find raiding boring/un-fun. Two different views, neither of us is 100% correct. It's also not fun to lose weight, which is why most of this country is fat. If people could complain the weight off, holy cow this country would be ripped!

 

It's not fun to work 70 hours a week but if you do in real life, you'll generally make a good bit more money too. I don't do so, and as such, I don't have as much money as said guy who does. I don't complain about it, it's a choice I make.

 

Everyone makes choices in life and in game. Each choice has a specific result. There are multiple ways to make money in this game. Pick the one that's most palatable to you, and do it.

 

edit: Now see, what Sirus posted right below me, that's what I used to see on game forums back in the day. A Complaint fleshed out and suggestions provided rather then just ragee here me scream.

Edited February 13, 2013 by islander

[-Sirus-]

I'm ok with the idea that costs got raised because the repair bills have been trivial for long time. The scaling of the repair costs after hitting 50 is just way too excessive.

 

The people who this impacts in a significant way are those of us running around in level 61-63 gear. Paying repair costs for gear 10+ levels over what the game economy is trying to be balanced around just isn't reasonable. I keep reasonably on top of my dailies and do some basic gtn selling. Before the patch this was enough to support wipe heavy progression raiding while still saving up at a reasonable pace to allow me actually buy things. I very much enjoy running ops, but strongly avoid making ops my life. Since I work during the day, the current costs will reduce me to running dailies during my non ops game time just to be able to support my ops running.

 

Instead of just complaining to revert like everyone else, I'll offer two reasonable solutions in more detail.

 

Solution A: Flatten the repair cost curve significantly on gear past level 50. This would make 61s and 63s sustainable in a reasonable way.

 

Solution B: Introduce a new type of commendation. Vendors should accept this new commendation as an alternate repair currency. Operation, flashpoint, and world bosses should drop these commendations. They should be nontransferable like all commendations. Bioware can even sell them in the cartel market and put them in packs.

[Mercurial_Harpy]

Repair costs were lowered in 1.2 for a reason; they discouraged people from doing end-game content, period, and that was before lvl 63 mods were in the game. I just can't see that Bioware would intentionally reverse that fix. This really smells like a bug to me, folks. They tried to "normalize" the low level armor shell repair costs and ended up borking repair costs overall. It was a huge patch. And had players seen this on the test servers, the testers would have been screaming about it, no doubt.

 

Would love to see a gold post addressing this. Because if they seriously expect a raid to cost a player 200k, or repairs to negate the cost of questing, they're going to lose players. Again. Very frustrating.

 

* * *

[galadimana]

I agree with all the people saying the repair costs are out of hand expensive. My 2 cents.

[Beslley]

I like how just because there was a patch note about this being a fix it's automatically assumed to be working as intended.

 

Frankly, if this is working as intended then someone at Bioware needs to be fired.

 

Dailies are not enjoyable content. To think that the income from dailies could or should be used as a gating mechanism for content people actually enjoy is ludicrous. To expect that everyone in a progression ops should devote 3+ hours a week grinding out dailies to pay for one night of ops is almost offensive. It turns the game into a job. I almost never do dailies, I don't enjoy them in any capacity.

 

To require x number of hours a week spent on this horrible content to engage in content I actually enjoy is a sure fire way to get me to cancel my sub and go elsewhere.

 

To defend this ideology is a sure fire way to insure that this game will fail sooner than later.

 

To pretend that someone's outrage at such a horrible mechanic is what is causing the decline in the quality of the MMOs today is vapid at best, though the word I'm more likely to use is moronic.

 

If this is anything but a mistake, then it is cheap, lazy, and more fuel for the fire against BW/EA's policies and direction regarding this game.

 

^This.

Out of everyone on my raid team, there is nobody who does their dailies every day. Usually we do one day of BH/Section X for the weekly BH comms and then only log on when leveling alts or raiding.

In my case, raiding with my friends is the only reason I am still playing this game. Requiring me to go on all my alts to do dailies is pretty much the least fun thing I can think of doing with my time.

 

If I wanted to grind dailies all day, I'd go play fraking WoW, where you can literally grind out 50 dailies if you want. I'm sorry, but that's not the way I want to play, and unlike WoW, which has a HUGE sub base and can afford to ignore player complaints about dailies, SWTOR has a miniscule sub base and a literally nonexistant raid scene (on POT5, there is literally no raid pool to draw from. Most of the good raiders have left long ago. We'd love to field a 16man HM/NiM team but there is literally nobody for us to recruit.)

 

The biggest irritant for me is that it is SO EASY to design a gold sink that doesn't penalize like this one does. FFS, just add more million+ mounts and pets to the game instead of releasing them all in the CC store. There. Problem solved.

[Amlici]

Eh most guilds with half a brain won't touch ops above their level of finance. Got to build up the kitty if you want to be and remain competitive. Least this game you don't have gold sellers spamming you to buy credits with rl money.

[Beslley]

Eh most guilds with half a brain won't touch ops above their level of finance. Got to build up the kitty if you want to be and remain competitive. Least this game you don't have gold sellers spamming you to buy credits with rl money.

 

The only reason there aren't that many gold spammers (they DO exist, btw, I get mail from them ALL THE TIME) is because BW has basically put in a legal route to do so (by buying CC and purchasing things in the store to sell on the GTN).

[Keypek]

Definitely makes pug'ing a lot less attractive which is probably bad for overall game health. If you raid in a guild it shouldn't be an issue for that though. Just makes it a lot less attractive to spend time trying to do dailies or weeklies in pugs where you never know what kind of competence you'll be grouped with that might cost you a lot of credits now.

[Lualei]

After having read all the threads and opinions about the recent incresed repair costs I have to admit that I categorize all attemps to defend this implementation as either trolling or lack of understanding of what a game/mmo is to many players. Trolling needs no further explanation, some people just like to stir up the heat in a discussion and nothing else but in regards to what it is to play an mmo game in general, and especially for those who actually stick to the game and have been here for a longer time, I'd like to give my point of view.

 

Many players like to do ops and I'm one of them. What keeps many players in a game for a longer time?: Raiding/ops'ing – not endless grinding. Most successfull mmos have proven so and every mmo that fails to implement this looses subscribers.

 

I already invest a lot of my free time, to work out valid tactics with my team in order to beat the ops boss content. I don't get free items served on a silverplate. I have high end raiding gear, yes, why? Because I earned it and I've played many hours in order to get to that point - and it has been fun. It's fun because I CHOOSE TO and NOT because I HAVE TO! The moment a game has some mechanics that force me into something that is similar to a job, repetitive boring grinding in order to have enough credits to pay my ops repair bills, the fun disappears because I can't choose anymore what I want to do – in my spare time. I and many others don't need another job (we already have one), we want to have fun in our spare time and if a game doesn't provide us with that, many will get the idea that it's time to regain their fun.....in another game.

 

Whoever got that idea in BW about increasing repair costs at this rate must be completely out of touch with the playerbase. If BW wants very young teens to represent the playerbase who have all the time on their hands, I can assure you that they are neither the majority of the playerbase nor the source of money you seem to care so much about.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Lualei

[Beslley]

Definitely makes pug'ing a lot less attractive which is probably bad for overall game health. If you raid in a guild it shouldn't be an issue for that though. Just makes it a lot less attractive to spend time trying to do dailies or weeklies in pugs where you never know what kind of competence you'll be grouped with that might cost you a lot of credits now.

 

Good point.

I imagine what little server community still exists will be hit fairly hard with this change.

 

I for one won't be pugging anything on my alts anymore. I'll just wait and do an alt run with my guildies.

 

And forget about queuing for the weekly LI solo. No way in hell am I touching that anymore, since 90% of the LI groups I get when I solo queue can't even get past the robot boss (which is utterly baffling to me. Is incinerate REALLY that hard to interrupt?).

Edited February 13, 2013 by Beslley

[DarthFamine]

Hello everyone,

 

Thank you for the feedback on this.

 

You might also wish to post your thoughts in the thread that can be found here in General Discussion.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

most of us already have

[wifeaggro]

I pay the monthy fee so I can play the game my way. Part of the definition of "my way" is that I do the dailies maybe once a week for the weekly BH coms. I don't always though. I don't play the GTN cause that's not my bag.

 

It costs me 150k to repair my gear. I don't earn that much in a week of playing this game.

 

so ... sucks for me, yeah I get that - I know I'm not the only one.

 

Hopefully there's a fix incomming. Needing to do 2 days of dailies to pay for 1 night of raiding is ... well ... it's bs. No other way to say it.

 

1).From day one this game was devolped with azz backwards approach. From enrage timer with very little actual engaging mechanics. making the content easily done in all tiers.until you hit the final tier of HM ops. Completeing HM FP's should pay much more then they do to give an alternative at least FP's are only half as boring as those ridiculous dailies. At this point it is very clear EAoware will just continue its regurgatation process of its devolpment process, Yay recolored vanity items for the win!

2). Money sink was the primary reason i unsubbed back in febuary 2012 and did not return until recently. the only reason i have any money at all is because i had to do dailies to grind for the new relics. For those of the player base that are comfortable in their gear progression and working on the final HM ops you are forced to do those lame dailies to continue in raid progression.

3). there is very very little end game as it is. it would have been more pudent to remove purchasable set gear and make the Drops rare in HM FP's and OPS with a tier between Blue and purple. i dont consider orange a tier as it is used primarily for looks. forcing our repetive grind on easy mode daily quests over and over is the most horrid concept of MMO devolpment ive ever expierenced. at least Rift hid this much better and forced the content into its instances with amuch broader gear progression.

[Rafaman]

Err.... it rains credits in this game, even for casual gamers, and you don't have to do an inordinate amount of dailies.

 

A previous poster had it right. If you want to run Ops you have to get up off your butt and prep some creds. It doesn't take much time to earn the creds and if you are in a well organized guild, you have the guild bank repair to back you up.

 

Lots of whine and cheese here.

[Ramaral]

While i am comfortable with making there be a penalty for death normally, I have never been a fan of the grinding dailies scenario. That being said i understand the need for it and am fine with it so long as it inst a requirement of a hour to 2 grind before a raid. Once a zone is on farm the costs are minimal and that's fine, however this scares me for new content long term. The BIGGEST issue i've always had with this game is the lack of pay off in raid content. The fact that you can just buy out 63 mods or have them crafted, while nice for min/max, already ruins the replay/payoff of raid content. Also if it costs this much to raid now for a new guild or fresh subs coming off F2P this will cause a mountain to climb just to get a crack at it; and will inevitably hurt the game.

 

This is not to say i want all content accessible to everyone there should still be a reason to a Nightmare EC for example for more than a Title and a helmet armoring. Is the inevitable cost worth it in the end? I don't know. That being said, at least within a raid zone drop more coin to make it viable and somewhat offset the cost.

 

Like in sports effort/talent should merit pay off not rip off.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Ramaral

[SomeJagoff]

If you raid in a guild it shouldn't be an issue for that though.

 

The problem is that in a lot of guilds, there are multiple ops groups, usually with alts, helping others get geared up, etc. My guild has its core raiders on their mains, then second and third ops groups on alts. One week 2 of the main dps aren't there, so we sub in 2 others, dps a little off, hit the enrage, down the boss, but 2 people die, there's 2 huge repair bills right there that didn't exist a day ago.

 

Wipes happen, I'm fine with that, but these new extremely high repair costs seriously put a disincentive to raiding, or even just flashpoints/questing in general.

 

So bioware, if you want to kill the game, keep these repair costs where they are. There's no point in getting BIS gear if that same BIS gear is going to cost you 200k in repair costs from a couple wipes when attempting the next new content.

 

seems like the only "workaround" is to wear crappy recruit gear while questing/doing dailies to avoid massive repair costs just from gear taking normal wear and tear.

[Somanliuus]

I have to agree with the OP. I play about 2-3 hours a night and the absolute LAST thing I want to do with my playtime ia grind dailies. Especially Section X *shudders*. The old repair costs were fine... It seems like BW is encouraging people to use the Cartel market to get credits just to pay for credit sinks. There isnt enough already? At least you dont lose durability from pvp. Small favours.

[Skiggity]

Add me to the folks who think the new repair bills are beyond excessive. If you want to keep the new higher bills, at least make the ops and flashpoints universally lucrative; TFB SM pays much better than EC HM, but wiping on EC HM is much more prevalent.

 

This arbitrary move after so long with the old repair pricing is sure to scare away paying players.

[Somanliuus]

I have to agree with the OP. I play about 2-3 hours a night and the absolute LAST thing I want to do with my playtime ia grind dailies. Especially Section X *shudders*. The old repair costs were fine... It seems like BW is encouraging people to use the Cartel market to get credits just to pay for credit sinks. There isnt enough already? At least you dont lose durability from pvp. Small favours.

[wifeaggro]

Err.... it rains credits in this game, even for casual gamers, and you don't have to do an inordinate amount of dailies.

 

A previous poster had it right. If you want to run Ops you have to get up off your butt and prep some creds. It doesn't take much time to earn the creds and if you are in a well organized guild, you have the guild bank repair to back you up.

 

Lots of whine and cheese here.

 

Its not the fact of making you do something for the credits or the repair costs its the ridiculously stupid content they make you do to grind it. make FP and SM ops drop more money. id prefer a corpse run to the current situation of running dailies over and over to fund raiding . the content on the planets absloutely sucks aside from the class quests and the lvling expierence. its not whine and cheese its the fact your forced to work at K mart every day so you can raid once a week and if your doing SM ops for comms and FP from the group finder your guaranteed exorbident expenses to gear progress. Make the content harder and the repair cost less , the cart is Before the horse here in devolpment .