See whats in the secret cave on TFB!

[AshlaBoga]

Far from it. This type of feat requires ... what ... 24 people in raid, communicating on vent, etc.? Needless to say, this is so rare in a dwindling game like this that only ONE guild did it so far and it will remain that way for ages. It's bad enough trying to get a stable 16m Ops going, anything beyond that is not only ludicrous, but completely unrealistic for this game, unless you live in a "cave" and don't know how many people left the game by now and that 16m guilds are a rarity as it is.

 

This kind of exclusivity is nothing but a waste of development time, for less than 1% of the of SWTOR population will ever see this (because of population issues, NOT skill issues).

 

Congrats, nevertheless, but it really irks me I'll never be able to do this because of reasons not determined by me.

 

The reason 16 man groups are rare - and becoming more so - is BECAUSE they don't offer 16 man specific content. By offering the same rewards for 8 man and 16 man, people will overwhelmingly go for 8 man because it's easier to find and gear and get 8 people on at the same time.

 

Only by incentivizing 16 mans - offering stuff like Nightmare Pilgrim, Dreadtooth, Dreadful Entity - can they save 16 mans from withering away altoghether. At launch there were a ton of 16 man operation guilds. Today? Barely even 1/4 the amount whereas there's at least 1/2 the amount of 8 man operation guilds that there were at launch.

[Krewel]

The reason 16 man groups are rare - and becoming more so - is BECAUSE they don't offer 16 man specific content. By offering the same rewards for 8 man and 16 man, people will overwhelmingly go for 8 man because it's easier to find and gear and get 8 people on at the same time.

 

Only by incentivizing 16 mans - offering stuff like Nightmare Pilgrim, Dreadtooth, Dreadful Entity - can they save 16 mans from withering away altoghether. At launch there were a ton of 16 man operation guilds. Today? Barely even 1/4 the amount whereas there's at least 1/2 the amount of 8 man operation guilds that there were at launch.

 

It's not about incentivization, but about the population issue. At the beginnig there were 16m groups popping left and right because literally millions played this game, not to mention the fact that nothing came even close to EC NiM difficulty, disregarding the cockblocky Soa, which was a essentially glitchy, not difficult. Incentivizing now after the major exodus is only counter-productive - the playerbase is simply not strong enough (because of F2P and the simple fact that many skilled players left for "greener pastures"). Suggesting that incentivization now will bring back the "good old" days is unrealistic.

 

Would also like some official response for this, don't you think it's high time devs spoke of this "cabalistic" content that less than 1% can even experience? Seriously, how this type of ridiculous policy of exclusiveness and silence can benefit this game is anyone's guess. This "astute" concept was probably concocted by the same minds who thought server transfers and mergers need to be postponed only after everyone's left to care.

[Sentinel-Jordal]

Do someone has a video of this or some pictures?

Would love to see a picture of the mask

Edited February 6, 2013 by Sentinel-Jordal

[AshlaBoga]

It's not about incentivization, but about the population issue. At the beginnig there were 16m groups popping left and right because literally millions played this game, not to mention the fact that nothing came even close to EC NiM difficulty, disregarding the cockblocky Soa, which was a essentially glitchy, not difficult. Incentivizing now after the major exodus is only counter-productive - the playerbase is simply not strong enough (because of F2P and the simple fact that many skilled players left for "greener pastures"). Suggesting that incentivization now will bring back the "good old" days is unrealistic.

 

Would also like some official response for this, don't you think it's high time devs spoke of this "cabalistic" content that less than 1% can even experience? Seriously, how this type of ridiculous policy of exclusiveness and silence can benefit this game is anyone's guess. This "astute" concept was probably concocted by the same minds who thought server transfers and mergers need to be postponed only after everyone's left to care.

 

Well it's likely that the cave, amulet and Entity were actually designed BEFORE the big Exodus of 2012. So that's one reason why it's 16 man only, they thought they could give 16 mans some extra benefit in Tier 2, but really they should have done that in Tier 1.

[Fornix]

It's not about incentivization, but about the population issue. At the beginnig there were 16m groups popping left and right because literally millions played this game, not to mention the fact that nothing came even close to EC NiM difficulty, disregarding the cockblocky Soa, which was a essentially glitchy, not difficult. Incentivizing now after the major exodus is only counter-productive - the playerbase is simply not strong enough (because of F2P and the simple fact that many skilled players left for "greener pastures"). Suggesting that incentivization now will bring back the "good old" days is unrealistic.

 

Would also like some official response for this, don't you think it's high time devs spoke of this "cabalistic" content that less than 1% can even experience? Seriously, how this type of ridiculous policy of exclusiveness and silence can benefit this game is anyone's guess. This "astute" concept was probably concocted by the same minds who thought server transfers and mergers need to be postponed only after everyone's left to care.

 

Keep in mind that the level of development which has gone into this is minimal. So it's hardly as if it cost a lot of resources which have could be spent elsewhere.

 

What it does show however is what sort of surprising little gems can be hidden in the game, which aren't publically announced. And that is something which imo shouldn't be criticized as it happens to be for 16m content this time, but be praised.

 

More of such "hidden content" ought to be implemented. Secret little treasures of new content pieces by doing specific things in a certain manner which would easily be overlooked, or being triggered by objects in far away outskirts on planets. Things which take several months till after a patch is even released before someone notices it and tells the rest all about it.

[Orlesian]

That's not entirely true.

 

Even if you guild isn't doing Tier 2 HM/NiM Operations, you might be able to overgear/level parts of this in the near future.

 

Dreadtooth: probably won't be raised to level 55.

 

Ergo doing 10 Stack DT with 24 level 55s will be much easier than doing it with 24 level 50s.

 

Now the entity will be a different matter entirely, but I suspect that by the 3rd quarter of 2013 (September-ish) gear available from Story Mode Operations will be better than Dread Guard. Thus making it possible for a non-hardcore group to down the Entity.

 

So you will probably get this, just not in the immediate future.

 

I hope this makes you feel better.

 

P.S: Talos Drellik & Khem Val are my favourite Inq comps.

Aww, thanks! <3 I do feel a little better now *Hug*

[MarvelZombie]

While I have yet to raid in this game (though I'll be working on my first 8-man soon) and I may never see any of this content, I have to say I love that BW put stuff like this in the game for the few hardcores out there. I know a few such hardcores that left the game (prior to TFB) due to the lack of challenge in the raiding progression system - they blew through it all pretty darn fast after launch. Things like this - adding mystery, discovery, and challenge - might have kept them around.

 

Congrats! Here's hoping more things like this make it into the game.

[ObiWanBaikonur]

Though I didn't experience it myself, the above complaint about exclusivity sounds like what led to the New Game Experience on Star Wars Galaxies. Prior to reform, there was some ridiculously obscure chain of events and specializations that would lead you to slowly and painfully uncover the secrets to becoming a jedi. When people complained that it was too difficult or exclusive or restrictive, they reengineered the whole game to let just anyone start as a jedi.

 

This is many shades of gray from the SWG example, but it's no different in kind. There's no real harm in having some "exclusive" content that takes a lot of commitment to access, if you ask me.

[Nibbon]

Far from it. This type of feat requires ... what ... 24 people in raid, communicating on vent, etc.? Needless to say, this is so rare in a dwindling game like this that only ONE guild did it so far and it will remain that way for ages. It's bad enough trying to get a stable 16m Ops going, anything beyond that is not only ludicrous, but completely unrealistic for this game, unless you live in a "cave" and don't know how many people left the game by now and that 16m guilds are a rarity as it is. On the whole server of TOFN there is only one 16m guild that has any merit, and even they can't achieve this insane feat due to the dying population. So, congratulations, BW, you created content which excludes an ENTIRE server.

 

This kind of exclusivity is nothing but a waste of development time, for less than 1% of the of SWTOR population will ever see this (because of population issues, NOT skill issues).

 

Congrats, nevertheless, but it really irks me I'll never be able to do this because of reasons not determined by me.

 

I just wanted to comment on this one, since I totally disagree with you. I'd like to point out our original 5 stack kill was a joint event with another guild - there is nothing stopping three great 8 man guilds from doing the same thing. While our subsequent kills were under one guild tag (as a result of our recent absorption of the guild that we had originally teamed up with) - it is up to your community to be able to piece something like this together (or an enterprising leader to get the participation of certain people).

 

Anyway, I do think this exclusivity is good for the game - we had over 600 streamers watching at one point. I think this is one of the first times the whole community truly got excited about something another guild was doing (and was able to broadcast live).

[Sydexlic]

It's not about incentivization, but about the population issue. At the beginnig there were 16m groups popping left and right because literally millions played this game, not to mention the fact that nothing came even close to EC NiM difficulty, disregarding the cockblocky Soa, which was a essentially glitchy, not difficult. Incentivizing now after the major exodus is only counter-productive - the playerbase is simply not strong enough (because of F2P and the simple fact that many skilled players left for "greener pastures"). Suggesting that incentivization now will bring back the "good old" days is unrealistic.

 

Would also like some official response for this, don't you think it's high time devs spoke of this "cabalistic" content that less than 1% can even experience? Seriously, how this type of ridiculous policy of exclusiveness and silence can benefit this game is anyone's guess. This "astute" concept was probably concocted by the same minds who thought server transfers and mergers need to be postponed only after everyone's left to care.

 

Or your guild and another 8 man outfit could collaborate. Just because YOU personally don't have the testicular fortitude or organisational skills to even come up with your own ways and means of attempting this doesn't mean the content is a waste.

 

I'm in an 8m guild, on one of the very low pop oceanic servers no less. We'll find it harder than you will to organise a group to do this, but we will do it, because that is what is required. You, meanwhile, will feel angry and betrayed that they didn't make it solo content just so you can "experience content" too.

 

TL; DR HTFU

Edited February 6, 2013 by Sydexlic

[Sledgeweb]

Far from it. This type of feat requires ... what ... 24 people in raid, communicating on vent, etc.? Needless to say, this is so rare in a dwindling game like this that only ONE guild did it so far and it will remain that way for ages. It's bad enough trying to get a stable 16m Ops going, anything beyond that is not only ludicrous, but completely unrealistic for this game, unless you live in a "cave" and don't know how many people left the game by now and that 16m guilds are a rarity as it is. On the whole server of TOFN there is only one 16m guild that has any merit, and even they can't achieve this insane feat due to the dying population. So, congratulations, BW, you created content which excludes an ENTIRE server.

 

This kind of exclusivity is nothing but a waste of development time, for less than 1% of the of SWTOR population will ever see this (because of population issues, NOT skill issues).

 

Congrats, nevertheless, but it really irks me I'll never be able to do this because of reasons not determined by me.

 

Wow, what a selfish *****$$! So, because you aren't able to do this content right now, it shouldn't be in the game? I wasn't even on the game last night when I heard about this and watched the stream live. I shared it with my guild-mates over mumble — and we are on the same server as this group — and many of us watched it and cheered them on and were having so much fun seeing something new and hidden in the game. It certainly inspired us all to work harder on our raid progressions and teamwork (amongst ourselves and with other guilds). Something that brings that level of excitement and energy to the game can only be a good thing.

 

Honestly, this was one of the best things I've seen from the game so far — because it was hidden and unexpected and challenging (have they figured out what to do with that orb yet?). But, to listen to you, you'd rather them strip that out just to have more of the same content that is accessible to everyone and easy to achieve. If we are following that pattern, why have PVP or Operations or Flashpoints at all? Some players will never have time to group and just like playing solo. Maybe any content that requires grouping of any kind should just be removed from the game so those solo players don't feel disenfranchised?

[Knockerz]

I said it before. The reason you don't see many 16 man groups is the same reason WoW has been suffering a decline in 25 man raids. It's easier to organize 10 mans over 25 mans. The same is true in swtor. Thus, unless BW grants increase item level for 16 man having 16 man raids is a waste of time and development. Ultimately, people will gravitate to the raid size that has the best loot in terms of item level and easiest to organize. That is why in the majority of raiders in wow are now 10 man raiders. BW should avoid that problem and just go to a single format whether that be 8 or 16 man. Personally, I prefer large raid size so I would go with 16 man and force 8 mans to become 16 man raid sizes. Bigger is always better.

[Knockerz]

Though I didn't experience it myself, the above complaint about exclusivity sounds like what led to the New Game Experience on Star Wars Galaxies. Prior to reform, there was some ridiculously obscure chain of events and specializations that would lead you to slowly and painfully uncover the secrets to becoming a jedi. When people complained that it was too difficult or exclusive or restrictive, they reengineered the whole game to let just anyone start as a jedi.

 

This is many shades of gray from the SWG example, but it's no different in kind. There's no real harm in having some "exclusive" content that takes a lot of commitment to access, if you ask me.

 

The exclusiveness wasn't the problem. What was a problem to many people was the feeling that the rug got pull from under your feet. Any one who was grinding or had grinded to unlock their jedi felt cheated by the NGE. That is why almost every one quit. I quit over this very reason not cause jedi was no longer exclusive, but because all the grinding hours I put in were not proportionally compensated. A stupid elder title and robes were not suffice. After the NGE went live I only log into swg like two times and never bother again.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

It's nice to see some epic/hidden quest lines do exist in the game. They need to put a few more things like this to balance out all the spoon-fed and irl currency bought stuff in the game with real street cred items and titles.

[ObiWanBaikonur]

The exclusiveness wasn't the problem. What was a problem to many people was the feeling that the rug got pull from under your feet. Any one who was grinding or had grinded to unlock their jedi felt cheated by the NGE. That is why almost every one quit. I quit over this very reason not cause jedi was no longer exclusive, but because all the grinding hours I put in were not proportionally compensated. A stupid elder title and robes were not suffice. After the NGE went live I only log into swg like two times and never bother again.

 

Right, right. I may have worded my bit poorly. What I meant to emphasize was that the NGE changes were implemented for some reason or another (not too sure on the specifics of it, I wasn't there). When they put in the changes, you could start from the get-go as a Jedi. Again, I'm not sure why they made this choice, but I wager that it has to do with people whining that it was too difficult to become one.

 

One Domino-Effect later and folks like yourself who invested a lot of time and energy into achieving something (sort of like gearing up and discovering an epic, epic hidden boss) felt robbed of their accomplishment by some new change that enabled everyone to instantly access what they'd worked so hard towards (Like the complainant's suggestion).

 

I hope that was a better-elucidated point

[maxetius]

So how come the ultra hardcores left this game because "there's nothing to do?"

 

Starting to think even 90% of hardcores need things spoonfed to them now. Hats off to the guys who did this though, was pretty awesome.

[MrSchmo]

Far from it. This type of feat requires ... what ... 24 people in raid, communicating on vent, etc.? Needless to say, this is so rare in a dwindling game like this that only ONE guild did it so far and it will remain that way for ages. It's bad enough trying to get a stable 16m Ops going, anything beyond that is not only ludicrous, but completely unrealistic for this game, unless you live in a "cave" and don't know how many people left the game by now and that 16m guilds are a rarity as it is. On the whole server of TOFN there is only one 16m guild that has any merit, and even they can't achieve this insane feat due to the dying population. So, congratulations, BW, you created content which excludes an ENTIRE server.

 

This kind of exclusivity is nothing but a waste of development time, for less than 1% of the of SWTOR population will ever see this (because of population issues, NOT skill issues).

 

Congrats, nevertheless, but it really irks me I'll never be able to do this because of reasons not determined by me.

 

Sour **** much? I cant have so neither should you attitude?

 

That's what games like this need. I lofty goal that maybe only a handful can do. You need a high goal to reach for, even if you may never get there, it's nice to know there is always something big to aim for.

[MariaD]

I said it before. The reason you don't see many 16 man groups is the same reason WoW has been suffering a decline in 25 man raids. It's easier to organize 10 mans over 25 mans. (anip) Personally, I prefer large raid size so I would go with 16 man and force 8 mans to become 16 man raid sizes. Bigger is always better.

 

We have eight permanent 8-person raid teams in the guild, with three to five of them raiding at the same time on any given night. So theoretically, we could raid Vanilla Molten Core (40-person raid). However, most people don't want to do that anymore. In small raids, everybody counts, everybody is visible, everybody is important. DPS, healers, tanks. We sometimes run 16-person groups for fun, or for world bosses of course, but again - most people only want to do that occasionally. So I appreciate the choice we have.

[Krewel]

Sour **** much? I cant have so neither should you attitude?

 

That's what games like this need. I lofty goal that maybe only a handful can do. You need a high goal to reach for, even if you may never get there, it's nice to know there is always something big to aim for.

 

Truly amazing how many in this thread fail at basic reading comprehension or common sense. It's not about me, it's not even about my guild, it's about the status of the entire game, the status of a flawed game, merely a debris of what it was once, and merely a shadow of what it requires to be a game that can accommodate such content. The only useful information I got from defenders of this obscure content here is a theory that this piece of content was developed long before the devs realized the game will have less then a million subs going. Noone in their right mind would put in this game a piece of content that requires a raid of 24 people to do.

 

Please don't patronize people like me who've seen more people leave this game than in the Exodus from the Bible - it surely doesn't help that too many skilled players left long ago, that most of the newcomers are F2P dribblers who can't even read class ability tooltips, and that the average raiders lasts for a few weeks before he smartens up and goes to play a better game that doesn't require 6+ months to implement a new level of raid difficulty by adding one or two more abilities to bosses; oh, and not to mention the fact that a basic feature like server transfer still isn't available, leaving me on TOFN for better or worse. The only thing this type of content will do to servers like TOFN is simply make it invisible. Visionary policy right there.

 

And I just have to laugh at the sad reward the guild who accomplished this feat got - more obscurity. That's right, some orb that not even the devs know what it does. Truly amazing and motivating, I'm sure I'll be able to convince the remaining derpers on TOFN to pull their weight, start being serious, and raid in the glory of 24-man Ops to ... be awarded by an orb that does nothing. I'm sure guild alliances will be formed because of this!

[Nibbon]

Truly amazing how many in this thread fail at basic reading comprehension or common sense. It's not about me, it's not even about my guild, it's about the status of the entire game, the status of a flawed game, merely a debris of what it was once, and merely a shadow of what it requires to be a game that can accommodate such content. The only useful information I got from defenders of this obscure content here is a theory that this piece of content was developed long before the devs realized the game will have less then a million subs going. Noone in their right mind would put in this game a piece of content that requires a raid of 24 people to do.

 

Please don't patronize people like me who've seen more people leave this game than in the Exodus from the Bible - it surely doesn't help that too many skilled players left long ago, that most of the newcomers are F2P dribblers who can't even read class ability tooltips, and that the average raiders lasts for a few weeks before he smartens up and goes to play a better game that doesn't require 6+ months to implement a new level of raid difficulty by adding one or two more abilities to bosses; oh, and not to mention the fact that a basic feature like server transfer still isn't available, leaving me on TOFN for better or worse. The only thing this type of content will do to servers like TOFN is simply make it invisible. Visionary policy right there.

 

And I just have to laugh at the sad reward the guild who accomplished this feat got - more obscurity. That's right, some orb that not even the devs know what it does. Truly amazing and motivating, I'm sure I'll be able to convince the remaining derpers on TOFN to pull their weight, start being serious, and raid in the glory of 24-man Ops to ... be awarded by an orb that does nothing. I'm sure guild alliances will be formed because of this!

 

If the sense of accomplishment, in the face of all those challenges you listed, isn't enough for you - then I feel badly for you.

 

As Carnage GM - I am very proud of what we were able to do and that is enough for me. And actually, we are excited that there is still a mystery to be solved.

[itsmymillertime]

What I posted in another thread, I dont think there is a mystery:

 

This is the effect details for the orb from torhead.

 

 

Effect Subeffect Type Text

0 1 condition IsInCombat: Negated=>1, Actor=>Target

0 1 condition HasEffect: FromActor=>None, Negated=>1, Actor=>Caster, Count=>1

1 1 action CallEffect: FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2

1 1 action PlayAppearance: DependentOnCallingEffect=>1, AppearanceSpec=>epp.qtr.1x4.daily.belsavis.superboss.itm_orb_toss

2 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>15000, Duration=>15000, Toughness=>3

2 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1

2 0 init SetHidden: IsHidden=>1

2 0 condition IfCalledByEffect

2 1 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.qtr.1x4.daily.belsavis.superboss.itm_orb_persist

 

Reading this I conclude, the belsavis superboss is the Dreadful Entity, the animation that displays when you activate the orb is a smaller version of the Dreadful Entity. So the code loads the Dreadful Entity and overlays it onto the targeted player. Also the "PlayAppearance" hints at my theory that it plays the animation of the Dreadful Entity, which it does on the targeted player. Also "MaxDuration" is a time frame, does the "Orb" animation last 15 seconds aka 15000 milliseconds. As a code writer, we write time in milliseconds.

 

Think of it as a Czerka Crate-o-matic.

[Arkerus]

I have no problems with a few things in the game being very hard to get or exclusive to hard content. At the end of the day I could really care less as long as:

 

1. That item or accomplishment doesn't throw the whole server into chaos or create barriers for other people (aka that awful WOW event, "gates of something", was incedibly stupid on Blizzard's part)

 

2.The item or accomplishment doesn't throw PvP into chaos by providing an item significantly more powerful than anything that already exists.

 

 

All games need "something" to strive for and creating a few things that only a handful accomplish is generally good for the game. Its something to admire or even strive for yourself.

 

That said, if a game has too much "exclusive" content and everyone else is left with scraps, that is a serious problem (aka Vanilla WoW or Everquest). No one wants to play if the game creates kings and second class citizens.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Arkerus

[metwars]

What I posted in another thread, I dont think there is a mystery:

 

 

 

Reading this I conclude, the belsavis superboss is the Dreadful Entity, the animation that displays when you activate the orb is a smaller version of the Dreadful Entity. So the code loads the Dreadful Entity and overlays it onto the targeted player. Also the "PlayAppearance" hints at my theory that it plays the animation of the Dreadful Entity, which it does on the targeted player. Also "MaxDuration" is a time frame, does the "Orb" animation last 15 seconds aka 15000 milliseconds. As a code writer, we write time in milliseconds.

 

Think of it as a Czerka Crate-o-matic.

 

then why would it have a 24 hour cooldown if it was only a fluff item.

[Arkerus]

What I posted in another thread, I dont think there is a mystery:

 

 

 

Reading this I conclude, the belsavis superboss is the Dreadful Entity, the animation that displays when you activate the orb is a smaller version of the Dreadful Entity. So the code loads the Dreadful Entity and overlays it onto the targeted player. Also the "PlayAppearance" hints at my theory that it plays the animation of the Dreadful Entity, which it does on the targeted player. Also "MaxDuration" is a time frame, does the "Orb" animation last 15 seconds aka 15000 milliseconds. As a code writer, we write time in milliseconds.

 

Think of it as a Czerka Crate-o-matic.

 

Reading through that (and you don't have to be a rocket scientist) I would agree.

 

Cool stuff.

[Urael]

I have no problems with a few things in the game being very hard to get or exclusive to hard content. At the end of the day I could really care less as long as:

 

1. That item or accomplishment doesn't throw the whole server into chaos or create barriers for other people (aka that awful WOW event, "gates of something", was incedibly stupid on Blizzard's part)

 

2.The item or accomplishment doesn't throw PvP into chaos by providing an item significantly more powerful than anything that already exists.

 

 

All games need "something" to strive for and creating a few things that only a handful accomplish is generally good for the game. Its something to admire or even strive for yourself.

 

That said, if a game has too much "exclusive" content and everyone else is left with scraps, that is a serious problem (aka Vanilla WoW or Everquest). No one wants to play if the game creates kings and second class citizens.

 

Gates of Ahn'Qiraj and "The Sleeper" were epic events. Things of legend. Sadly we don't have more of them. There should be events like this and content that not everyone can achieve. Like REAL LIFE. Remember these were at one time supposed to simulate IRL after a fasion. What we have now is the mind set that "everyone is special", "everyone should have a chance". I say no, No, and NO to this! In a world where everyone is special, no one is. This way leads to mediocrity. I want to play in a game to escape for this prevailing garbage that has been foisted upon society since Rogerian psychology became the rage: "How does that make you feel!" Hokum I say!

Edited February 6, 2013 by Urael