woops ;p Yeah, back in August I thought I'd play more casually. I didn't realize once I stopped raid leading and such that I'd just completely stop playing. Currently playing LoL and will probably try out EQN.

Hi everyone, As you may have noticed, I have stepped away from the game. It has been, probably, a few months since I logged into either the game or the forums. No particular reason except I felt I was done with the game. This isn't meant to be a goodbye thread, I never really made one anywhere. I just thought that I ought to let you all know, especially if the class rep thing starts back up - that I won't be participating in it. I think ktap would be the best person to take over for it if he were up for it, Milas and Orderkin are good choices too - but I haven't been around lately to know if they are still around as well (I'm prob forgetting some people). So as you may guess, I won't be updating the OP anymore. If someone would like the code to start it up again and update it, send me a PM. I think Paowee's website is great, otherwise. The google docs that I use are still linked and active, so feel free to play around with those at any time. Best of luck to everyone, Nibbon

If it is just a textual error rather than an actual systematic error, all the more reason it should be fixed faster. In any case, I don't really play much anymore ;p

Absolutely feel free. I still plan on updating soon but I don't have time until at least next week.

yeah one of my planned questions was something along the lines of why would i ever bring in a sage dps over a slinger.

did a few parses with my sorc in mostly 69s completely unoptimized - was hitting in the mid 2500s - so I'd suspect if I min-maxed the 69 I'd be in the low 2600s as an average and could probably hit 2700 as a lucky PR. Which is a little lower than I originally said. I'm also incredibly out of practice since I haven't played too much lately.

yeah i get 1800 dps in balance spec spamming TK throw with dots up, so that spec isn't very good if that is what you are hitting.

1-yes - a lot, prob 100 or so 2 - 5 minute minimum - usually up to 7-8 minutes depending on how well i timed cooldowns 3- buy them, they arent that expensive and you only need 2-3 per parse (that's really only 15-20 per hour - if my parse is lower than I want at the 2-3 minute mark I don't use the second adrenal and just start over.

Not really the best one to answer TK questions, actually. I believe the answer is disturbance -> wm -> turb. I'm not sure kindran is still around, but maybe stomach, or whatever his name is now, can answer. <3 I'm reasonably sure that is what I was pulling, I'm in 72s now and hit around 2800-2850 very consistently (I havent parsed in a long while, but that is what I hit when I parsed a lot). I was talking about balance spec, I only really ever played balance. I'll remind you I always fully min-maxed according to my guide. Your crit seems high, maybe - seems like you are full 72 now if your accuracy is like that, otherwise you have an error somewhere. If the power item is the adrenal, then I am not sure what is wrong. 69 hilt is the biggest DPS upgrade, I know very well the first time I was parsing on PTS when 2.0 was on there, I was doing 2550 or so. More experience among other things got me to the consistent 2700+ for 69s, though I was not in 69 for very long before getting upgrades to 72 when 2.0 hit live. My sorc is closer to full 69s - I'll see if I can log on this weekend, min-max the 69 gear and try some parses (don't hold me to it though )

I can confirm from my Sage Balance DPS model that applying the debuff you would expect roughly a 6.7% dps increase - this is in full 78s ... or whatever the pts gear is.

In 69s I was averaging 2700 - each tier has been 100-150 dps for me. I parse with reusable stim/adrenal - ive always used power proc and power click relics.

It is not listed because in a stationary fight, using FL will yield more DPS - since FL has no CD - shock is unneeded. Not to mention, in the spec I list, you do not have the crit proc (for the extra 50% damage) so that makes it extra bad.

I will update the actual guide later - but for those wondering these are my prelim results for the new tier: TK: 4 surge, 2 alacrity, 4 accuracy, 61 crit (so, one mod/enhancement worth) Sage: 4 surge, 2 alacrity, 4 accuracy, 185 crit WP augments still the best I threw this together in a hurry so I need to double check for mistakes before I update the guide. For those wondering - this puts our accuracy/miss chance pretty low/high at 99.27 - I checked if accuracy augments would fit in instead of WP - and they dont. If you cannot live with such a high miss chance (I don't blame you) - switch the 1 alacrity enhancement into accuracy - though this will put you way over the cap - alternatively you can trade 1 wp augment for 1 accuracy augment, which is less of a DPS hit but still leaves you at 99.67. For balance, trading enhancements is a very small DPS hit (literally 1 DPS) and only a tad larger for TK (around 3). Trading 1 augment is closer to .6-.7 for each.

without looking at it, I'd probably say 3 surge 7 alacrity. I won't be updating my heal model, just my DPS one.

You might be saving yourself a slightly too large margin for PoM on MC. Otherwise, it is probably the right thing to do. Without adrenals I'd probably expect a 2730 average - I think that boundless ages is probably the best relic too and costing you another 20 dps or so - so you aren't too far off from the 2710 you should be hitting - that is just an estimate. My guess is, on average I'd hit 2800-2850 with adrenal and full min-max.

I'm sure recruitment will remain open to individuals - you can still apply through the old carnage website which is now rebranded for the new guild: http://www.raidordie.com Thanks for the offer! We have already changed our name now, but it was nice of you to offer

name change is in as <Shadowed> Fusion was top choice but was taken I will coordinate the best I can tomorrow to start invites.

That thread illustrates a very narrow view of arbitrarily placing soft caps on things. Observe: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0AgCWcFAbOaZwdDZ2YVBnY3BocnA2dTg2d0xxWWNBZ2c&oid=4&zx=l1kpjvprg677 That was a graphic i did for healing but it illustrates the point. There are two curves for heal, surge and alacrity. If you had 0 of both stats, you would invest in surge first because those are better. Then there is a point where surge diminishes to the point where the added benefit is less than alacrity. You would then invest into alacrity. Eventually, it is possible, that alacrity would fall back under surge - this might happen in future tiers. The point where the two lines cross is where you will switch back from alacrity to surge, once more (simplified truth). You switch from surge to alacrity when surge's benefit dips from the benefit of the first alacrity enhancement. The end result is you take alacrity a lot sooner than you would if you go by an arbitrary "soft cap" that doesn't really exist.

So basically Fusion or Shadowed I do like Fusion - dont really like the shadowed variation. If there is no actual objection to Shadow Republic, I may just go with that.

This will probably be my last post in this thread - we need to finalize guild name today and we can start inviting the guilds whenever. The one word guild name seems to be the most popular idea - so that would eliminate shadow republic - Was talking with someone else and I like the idea of just "Shadow" the other leading choice right now seems to be "Serenity" No more new names please - just pick your preference of these two and we can run with it

Alright enough suggestions - now actually pick one. Personally, I liked Serenity, Quantum, Shaow Republic/Shadowed Republic

keep fighting the good fight, friend

Yes, so I would expect a change here in the next few weeks/months. When that happens I will update the guide, but since I don't know what the change will be, this is the best I can advise towards for now. Milas/Fire - I think those are the same questions, but truthfully, you are making me go into one of those excruciatingly small details, the difference between the two builds is probably rather small (find out for yourself, I have made the excel model publicly available). the simple answer is that bonus damage has proven through modeling to be the strongest stat. So 40 bonus damage is probably pretty significant - and whatever that translates to on each separate attack. I've already explained why WP is better than getting over 110% accuracy in my previous post. But again, any drop over 110% accuracy is an absolute waste, it doesn't amplify damage. The tradeoff is pretty small between most stats as is, but when you are wasting any percent of a stat in a single slot, especially 20%, it is pretty indisputable that something else should go there. 110% accuracy is a hard cap, going over doesn't make sense. Now really, that still leaves the questions of going up to but not over 110% (in the case of ... full campaign I think? my recommendation is 109.51%). The answer is the same as always - average hits. In an average scenario/sample you will get a higher parse than an average sample of a different stat. "But I just tested it 5 times and got worse results!!!" That is how statistics work, the stat difference is so close that random samples could explain that. If 1000 sages did this test, we would get a better sample and probably find a result closer to the truth/math. As for the surge cap (just clarifying so you don't think I'm beating the accuracy dead horse), there are no stat caps on any stat except accuracy. The stats are on a curve - and no curve goes perfectly horizontal without an impossible amount. So the question is, when does the curve distribute less than any of the other tradeoff curves - and that was exactly the point of my modeling. This is a kind of different question, but it has a similar answer - average hit. with the numbers you gave me 6080 and 6197 base hit numbers surge 7379 and 7183 actual base hits of 3498 and 3606 average hit weight of crit 25.98 and 25.12 average hits of 1579.584+ 2589.2196 and 1556.6864 + 2700.1728 gets you ... 4168.8036 and 4256.8592 with the accuracy hit of 0% and .14% is 4168.8036 and 4250.900 So again, the higher bonus damage is hitting, with or without crit, on average, higher than the lower bonus damage with higher surge and crit %. As for the blood thirst, adrenals, relics - all those will only exacerbate the difference between the two, so it isn't worth doing the math (when one damage is higher than the other, the absolute difference will get larger when multiplied). The last thing is auto crit, and it is difficult to examine it, but I can tell you that I don't need to. If the base damage one is critting for a higher amount of damage (which makes sense that it is) than the more autocrit you have, the less non-autocrit you'd actually need since you would hit more with the lower crit value. Hope that helps...

see my sig for my balance/madness guide

gotcha - balance does out perform TK on some fights, though. Particularly: Dash'Roode ... and wait that's it.