Same gender romance discussion

[Tatile]

I think the biggest problem with Theron, is that he started off as a book character. Regardless of the status of the Star Wars EU, he exists elsewhere in it (even if it is in SWTOR publications), and that might make interactions with him stilted and restricted. We are in the "Legends" (aka: what-the-****-ever) category here, so having a canon division between a book series and the game wouldn't be too much of a stretch, but it's whether or not Bioware are willing to have that - possibly why Theron seems so non-committal in his [Flirt]s: Bioware can't commit.

 

Or, you know, we can't have m/m [Flirt]s without someone winding up dead.

[AelixVII]

I think the biggest problem with Theron, is that he started off as a book character. Regardless of the status of the Star Wars EU, he exists elsewhere in it (even if it is in SWTOR publications), and that might make interactions with him stilted and restricted. We are in the "Legends" (aka: what-the-****-ever) category here, so having a canon division between a book series and the game wouldn't be too much of a stretch, but it's whether or not Bioware are willing to have that - possibly why Theron seems so non-committal in his [Flirt]s: Bioware can't commit.

That is a very good point, I can see why they want to *****-foot around characters like that, which is worrying because they're just limiting themselves, oh who am I kidding... they're limiting us with what we can choose to do, so they don't have to put too much effort in. Why even include such a high status character in this case, are we meant to feel privileged that we even get flirt options? I'd rather have one we can explore character development with further over a character that feels so precarious. Lana's exempt of course, being a female LI, but to make it fair they'd thrown in a few extra lines for f/m Theron romances.

 

Or, you know, we can't have m/m [Flirt]s without someone winding up dead.

I'm half expecting Imperials to be able to at least maim Theron in some way, what with him being a Bisexual male of course. The whole flirt section feels like a timid approach to it, even though they don't need to hide it, it's the players' 'fault' if they actually commit to click the flirt option so this shouldn't be a problem. 'Oh no, this character might have flirted with mine, I feel better for being able to kill him'. It just feels like an apology to the straight male gamers for having to 'deal' with such a thing...

 

Perhaps they're just keeping up appearances with today's m/m romance stories in the entertainment industry. Can't have a happy story involving two males without it being ultimately tragic in some way. Except when they are happy, in that case they get slapped with an R rating for 'Romance we don't want our children to see before age 18'.

Edited August 27, 2014 by AelixVII

[Tatile]

That is a very good point, I can see why they want to *****-foot around characters like that, which is worrying because they're just limiting themselves, oh who am I kidding... they're limiting us with what we can choose to do, so they don't have to put too much effort in. Why even include such a high status character in this case, are we meant to feel privileged that we even get flirt options? I'd rather have one we can explore character development with further over a character that feels so precarious. Lana's exempt of course, being a female LI, but to make it fair they'd thrown in a few extra lines for f/m Theron romances.

 

 

I'm half expecting Imperials to be able to at least maim Theron in some way, what with him being a Bisexual male of course. The whole flirt section feels like a timid approach to it, even though they don't need to hide it, it's the players' 'fault' if they actually commit to click the flirt option so this shouldn't be a problem. 'Oh no, this character might have flirted with mine, I feel better for being able to kill him'. It just feels like an apology to the straight male gamers for having to 'deal' with such a thing...

 

Perhaps they're just keeping up appearances with today's m/m romance stories in the entertainment industry. Can't have a happy story involving two males without it being ultimately tragic in some way. Except when they are happy, in that case they get slapped with an R rating for 'Romance we don't want our children to see before age 18'.

 

While of course there's part of me saying "Give Bioware the benefit of the doubt", they've done very little (this particular branch of Bioware, that is, I'm sure if it had David Gaider's influence, from all I've read from his tumblring, our predicament wouldn't be) to earn themselves that doubt, and an awful lot to dissuade it.

 

And gods yes, I saw the trailer and what the American Film - MIPPA? Their answer to the BBFC - have decided of the film. Utter *********** nonsense. Reminds me of the fact that showing a woman being beaten half to death is fine for young teenagers, but they can't see a woman O R G A S M. (Because apparently that's a bad word.)

 

Never mind the fact that this office is in Texas.

 

Unfortunately, as ever, all we have is to sit and wait. Considering that 3.0 likely won't drop until the year's over, that's quite a long time. 2.10 is, from what I can tell, another PvP balance patch. What unbridled joy. And from the fact that we're now getting into second digits, I wouldn't put it past them for us to hit, say, 2.15 before we start getting pre-release bonuses for the whatever expansion.

 

God, I just realised.

 

Lana and Theron will only be free to subscribers.

 

*facepalm*

Edited August 27, 2014 by Tatile

[AelixVII]

And gods yes, I saw the trailer and what the American Film - MIPPA? Their answer to the BBFC - have decided of the film. Utter *********** nonsense. Reminds me of the fact that showing a woman being beaten half to death is fine for young teenagers, but they can't see a woman O R G A S M. (Because apparently that's a bad word.)

Yes, heaven forbid a woman or gay person be shown enjoying themselves that gets labelled 'borderline pornographic' and as the article states, a taboo. I would really love to know how much of film boards' decision making is down to personal bigotry and just how they go about deciding these things. I know ours is a hell of a lot different to the US but we seem to have our share of eyebrow-raising ratings.

 

Unfortunately, as ever, all we have is to sit and wait. Considering that 3.0 likely won't drop until the year's over, that's quite a long time. 2.10 is, from what I can tell, another PvP balance patch. What unbridled joy. And from the fact that we're now getting into second digits, I wouldn't put it past them for us to hit, say, 2.15 before we start getting pre-release bonuses for the whatever expansion.

 

Mild spoilers for swtor future content:

 

 

The 3rd installment of this year-long story is actually meant to be hitting in a few weeks according to this yellow post. The thing I find interesting about this is they've had an information blackout on the PTS before it was taken down today (so soon). 'Something big' is apparently going to happen and they don't want testers spoiling it. My guess probably something Revan-related, leading to 3.0.

Saying that, I hope they don't go and kill off any decent characters because "lol swtor isn't canon!"

 

Edited August 28, 2014 by AelixVII

[Tatile]

SWTOR has SWTOR canon, and should be consistent within itself, but its canon likely won't have much effect on the EU (outside of any major battles or significant political events: e.g we blow up a planet), and especially not the films.

 

That said I'm expecting them to pull a Lord Cytharat with Theron and introduce another dude (probably a woman) to take his place.

 

Now, seeing as I'm levelling another Sorcerer, it is very disappointing to see how few women there are in large parts of the game, I shouldn't be annoyed to think that Bioware might introduce another female character to be significant in a major story line. But I know they'd do it if they could have her as a love interest for straight male characters, to the detriment of the rest of us. God that's annoying. I shouldn't let the cynicist in me do all the talking, though.

 

2.10, you say? September you say? Why, that's only two weeks away! But 2.9 only just dropped! Good god, two content patches in less than three months? Whatever next? SGRA companions?!

[MSFortes]

I am now creating a female character Sith Warrior, when she could have romance with Vette or Jaesa Willsaam? Only Makeb?

[thekashif]

I am now creating a female character Sith Warrior, when she could have romance with Vette or Jaesa Willsaam? Only Makeb?

 

Never which sucks since my Sith Lady has so much chemistry with both. I'm pretty sure only the republic get a woman who is receptive to flirting on makeb. I think there is something during forged alliances though and there is a very funny line during one of Vette's companion quests.

[Tatile]

I am now creating a female character Sith Warrior, when she could have romance with Vette or Jaesa Willsaam? Only Makeb?

 

You can't. There are no companion same-gender romances at the moment. Within the Empire, you may [Flirt] with Darth Acina, in the Seeker Droid missions, the lady who gives you the Czerka lead-in quest, and Lana Beniko.

[MSFortes]

You can't. There are no companion same-gender romances at the moment. Within the Empire, you may [Flirt] with Darth Acina, in the Seeker Droid missions, the lady who gives you the Czerka lead-in quest, and Lana Beniko.

 

Thanks, I'll think about my character and her story.

[Kaenna]

I haven't posted in some time now and haven't kept up with the updates and rumors either.

 

I still haven't finished the dialogue or missions with any of the romance possible companions. Hopeful that maybe, perhaps, some day, if we're lucky, (and we're, not it seems ) that they could become SGR possible. But, I'm wondering what others think about it...

 

Should I go ahead and finish this content because they're never going to make these companions SGR possible and if they do it will be with new dialogue and such? Or wait as it's not a complete waste of story content to wait as we may yet have hope?

[Tatile]

I honestly couldn't tell you.

 

Because, either they make the conversations retro-active, and available pre-50 - and mind I have no idea how that would work for those of us who have completed the conversations - or they make them post-55, regardless of whether or not you've completed the existing story line.

 

Or they don't do it at all.

 

You can probably wait, and watch videos on youtube, but in all honest, we'll only get confirmation for the above when they have a relevant closed beta for the content, and Dulfy tells us, like what happened with Makeb. Bioware themselves will not tell us anything.

[Kaenna]

Yea, sadly true. I wish they could see the harm, lack of trust, or faith, their information policy has.

[AelixVII]

That said I'm expecting them to pull a Lord Cytharat with Theron and introduce another dude (probably a woman) to take his place.

A pretty, bisexual one with no compelling character development other than to cater to the male players' every need, you mean?

 

Now, seeing as I'm levelling another Sorcerer, it is very disappointing to see how few women there are in large parts of the game, I shouldn't be annoyed to think that Bioware might introduce another female character to be significant in a major story line. But I know they'd do it if they could have her as a love interest for straight male characters, to the detriment of the rest of us. God that's annoying. I shouldn't let the cynicist in me do all the talking, though.

I can't speak for the female Sorc but I know the random flirts/temporary storyline relationships for the female Warrior were sparse at best. I think the Imperial Agent got the best deal in that respect. Would have been nice to have gotten a proper love triangle situation like male Warriors had. A one night fling with Pierce isn't exactly the same, lazy implementationthere...

 

2.10, you say? September you say? Why, that's only two weeks away! But 2.9 only just dropped! Good god, two content patches in less than three months? Whatever next? SGRA companions?!

What next? probably a delayed 3.0 well into the new year and no worthwhile SGR content. Wait, that's a little too cynical even for me, hopefully I'm wrong

[Tatile]

A pretty, bisexual one with no compelling character development other than to cater to the male players' every need, you mean?

 

 

I can't speak for the female Sorc but I know the random flirts/temporary storyline relationships for the female Warrior were sparse at best. I think the Imperial Agent got the best deal in that respect. Would have been nice to have gotten a proper love triangle situation like male Warriors had. A one night fling with Pierce isn't exactly the same, lazy implementationthere...

 

That fling with Pierce, *********** hell, talk about a bait-and-switch. You know he and the Warrior would be **** buddies (I revenge ****ed him after the Quinncident) - I'd say also regardless of the Warrior's gender.

 

Also, pretty but with no character development? That's what happens to almost every female character in main stream media when she becomes "the love interest". But we can't really expect much from them, I'm pretty sure the entire writing staff is currently men. Write what you know, after all.

 

((Apparently they know space battles and ancient alien civilisations, but not how two people of the same gender share a romantic relationship without one of them dying.))

[DomiSotto]

After playing a bunch of female characters, and now switching to the males, I came to the conclusion that the vast majority of the male NPCs in this game must be romantically interested in males and repressing, because they pay absolutely no attention to a female toon no matter how beautiful and accomplished, and all the female NPCs of high social standing and power seem suspiciously eager to shower my quite junior male toons with compliments and jump them.

 

Yeah, I am annoyed. I've played game diligently for 6+ months, and the only satisfying intentionally romantic sequence was playing one particular planet and consisted of maybe 8 flirting options and a kissing scene/FTB with an NPC that promptly disappeared afterwards.

Edited September 3, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Tatile]

Well, don't you know that straight men are horribly oppressed in the real world and don't have women constantly flinging themselves with offers of no-strings sexual favours? Gosh, they've got to get their escapist fantasies from somewhere, I mean it's not like they have centuries of books, decades of films and television shows, and at least two decades of other games to find a story of "inadequate male winning the heart of attractive successful female through doing not much". Why don't we give straight men a break? Their lives are so hard.

 

[Xilizhra]

After playing a bunch of female characters, and now switching to the males, I came to the conclusion that the vast majority of the male NPCs in this game must be romantically interested in males and repressing, because they pay absolutely no attention to a female toon no matter how beautiful and accomplished, and all the female NPCs of high social standing and power seem suspiciously eager to shower my quite junior male toons with compliments and jump them.

 

Yeah, I am annoyed. I've played game diligently for 6+ months, and the only satisfying intentionally romantic sequence was playing one particular planet and consisted of maybe 8 flirting options and a kissing scene/FTB with an NPC that promptly disappeared afterwards.

I... er, actually quite liked playing a female character because of how professional everything seemed that way, with the relative paucity of flirt options; it also made the lack of SGRs a bit less glaring. This will, of course, only make me even less inclined to play anyone male.

[Tatile]

I... er, actually quite liked playing a female character because of how professional everything seemed that way, with the relative paucity of flirt options; it also made the lack of SGRs a bit less glaring. This will, of course, only make me even less inclined to play anyone male.

 

There's nothing wrong with having [Flirt] options, to my mind, and having less of them - or their being more sparing and more appropriate for the situation - can help to continue the sense of immersion.

 

I was making fun of some of the stuff that's currently going on in the greater gaming sphere, what with some dudebros deciding to show how little misogyny exists within gaming... by hurling extremely offensive misogynist remarks (and death threats, and rape threats...) at women in gaming.

 

Well done guys *slow clap*

 

Edit: I can get not censoring "minge" because Britishims are "cute" in the US, but "rape" doesn't get filtered? These guys are off their trolley. I can't even say *********** ****** without it getting starred off. ******s aren't offensive! I have two! You have two! Most people have two! (Some have three.)

Edited September 3, 2014 by Tatile

[Xilizhra]

There's nothing wrong with having [Flirt] options, to my mind, and having less of them - or their being more sparing and more appropriate for the situation - can help to continue the sense of immersion.

 

I was making fun of some of the stuff that's currently going on in the greater gaming sphere, what with some dudebros deciding to show how little misogyny exists within gaming... by hurling extremely offensive misogynist remarks (and death threats, and rape threats...) at women in gaming.

 

Well done guys *slow clap*

If this is about Gamergate, I'm extraordinarily displeased with that affair. The gaming journalist network is being both stupid and disingenuous by attempting to leverage feminist issues to block attention from legitimate ethics questions... which the opposition is eating up, while much of it is trying to argue back against feminist positions allegedly held by the journalists despite the fact that feminism was never even the central problem. Both sides are fostering a vile quagmire, and I don't know how much those who do genuinely want to do good in all this could ever get anything done.

 

As for immersion, I agree that I don't see anything inherently wrong with them... I just want more lesbian ones, especially ones that might pay off.

[DomiSotto]

I like having options and deciding when it is appropriate to take it and when it is not. Not having them doesn't feel professional, it feels like being ignored by the developers as a gender. Same goes for Male always flirts with women in power, female never does.

 

EDIT: that goes for SGR and for straight content.

Edited September 4, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Tatile]

Spoilers for Forged Alliances III.

 

 

 

Well, making Theron Shan blush was the highlight of the after party, that's for sure.

 

"Me? Into you?"

 

Yes, yes Theron, I'm pretty sure that's how part of this works.

 

That said, Lana Beinko's last words were not all that promising for seeing Theron and her on our ships or part of our crews any time soon. Even if 3.0 is the start of the big, galactic showdown (or not), I doubt we'll being seeing either of them for quite a while.

 

And while that's thrilling from a story point - the new story does look like it might be quite interesting, intrigue abounds - from the perspective of us getting SGRA companions, it's starting to look bleak. No one else has been set up for new companions, Bioware have said nothing about current companions... in fact, companions themselves seem to have been all but forgotten as of late.

 

 

Thoughts?

[MoistMuffin]

I still think the [flirt] option responses are so generic that they could be applied to same gender characters and it wouldn't be a problem. Since there seems to be no plans at expanding the story lines or companion stories and the overall genericness of the Forged Alliances flirt options it seems like they could just "turn on" the same sex flirt option and people would be happy.

[vadess]

Spoilers for Forged Alliances III.

 

 

 

Well, making Theron Shan blush was the highlight of the after party, that's for sure.

 

"Me? Into you?"

 

Yes, yes Theron, I'm pretty sure that's how part of this works.

 

That said, Lana Beinko's last words were not all that promising for seeing Theron and her on our ships or part of our crews any time soon. Even if 3.0 is the start of the big, galactic showdown (or not), I doubt we'll being seeing either of them for quite a while.

 

And while that's thrilling from a story point - the new story does look like it might be quite interesting, intrigue abounds - from the perspective of us getting SGRA companions, it's starting to look bleak. No one else has been set up for new companions, Bioware have said nothing about current companions... in fact, companions themselves seem to have been all but forgotten as of late.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts are: I'm not sure... From my discussions there is a slight chance of it being possible. I guess everything is in 3.0.

[Maullum]

Spoilers for Forged Alliances III.

 

 

 

Well, making Theron Shan blush was the highlight of the after party, that's for sure.

 

"Me? Into you?"

 

Yes, yes Theron, I'm pretty sure that's how part of this works.

 

That said, Lana Beinko's last words were not all that promising for seeing Theron and her on our ships or part of our crews any time soon. Even if 3.0 is the start of the big, galactic showdown (or not), I doubt we'll being seeing either of them for quite a while.

 

And while that's thrilling from a story point - the new story does look like it might be quite interesting, intrigue abounds - from the perspective of us getting SGRA companions, it's starting to look bleak. No one else has been set up for new companions, Bioware have said nothing about current companions... in fact, companions themselves seem to have been all but forgotten as of late.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Was this on the Imp side? Cause Theron said nothing like that to me, and I've been spamming [FLIRT] like a... flirt spammer. Can I just say it really annoys me that he says "If we have more time... but we don't", suggesting he'd be interested, but we can't even get a goodbye kiss? After all this time in SW:TOR, two men kissing seems almost impossible. Especially as a Pub. I feel so unsatisfied!

 

Also, I've totally headcanoned that Darok and Arkous are together. As in romantically . And I find them cute together. That is all.

Well, were together.... considering they've... erm... passed away.

 

Edited September 11, 2014 by Maullum

[vadess]

Was this on the Imp side? Cause Theron said nothing like that to me, and I've been spamming [FLIRT] like a... flirt spammer. Can I just say it really annoys me that he says "If we have more time... but we don't", suggesting he'd be interested, but we can't even get a goodbye kiss? After all this time in SW:TOR, two men kissing seems almost impossible. Especially as a Pub. I feel so unsatisfied!

 

Also, I've totally headcanoned that Darok and Arkous are together. As in romantically . And I find them cute together. That is all.

Well, were together.... considering they've... erm... passed away.

 

At least my sniper got a man to kiss him on screen... poor pubs