Palar Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 We ALL make off-hand remarks about groups or types of people that we don't actually mean. Show me a person that claims they never do and I'll show you a liar and a hypocrite. "If you don't make all-encompassing insults, you're a hypocrite"... congrats, that makes negative levels of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Ugh, just because someone says gay in a negative context doesn't automatically mean they are *actually* homophobic. Sure, it's not politically correct but political correctness is hypocrisy of the highest order in the first place. Furthermore, words are just words, they are noises we make to convey thoughts. Attributing intent to a word alone without it's context is not only illogical, but pretentuous as well. We ALL make off-hand remarks about groups or types of people that we don't actually mean. Show me a person that claims they never do and I'll show you a liar and a hypocrite. Words are just words, and yet while theirs aren't worthy of such a reaction, mine are? Intriguing. You're also wrong. Bigotry is frequently not overt and deliberate, but the words one uses speak a great deal of what one's subconscious mind thinks and what their true perceptions are. There's truth in carelessness, for the same reason many say there's truth in drunkenness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 "If you don't make all-encompassing insults, you're a hypocrite"... congrats, that makes negative levels of sense. Wow, that's not what I said at all, don't put words into my mouth and then pretend it's what I said. People like you get put on ignore lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Words are just words, and yet while theirs aren't worthy of such a reaction, mine are? Intriguing. You're also wrong. Bigotry is frequently not overt and deliberate, but the words one uses speak a great deal of what one's subconscious mind thinks and what their true perceptions are. There's truth in carelessness, for the same reason many say there's truth in drunkenness. Complete nonsense. People use words and phrases they are used to using in the environment they live and grew in. Most people, especially young people, give no thought whatsoever to what they say and how they speak to other people, if they did they wouldn't speak the way they do. It's ignorance and indifference, not malice or the intent to berate others. Do you ask the intent of someone when you see something you don't like? No, you assume they want to murder homosexuals in ovens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palar Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Wow, that's not what I said at all, don't put words into my mouth and then pretend it's what I said. People like you get put on ignore lists. How so? You clearly said "show me someone who doesn't make cracks about groups of people, and I'll show you a liar and a hypocrite." So unless they say something like "everyone but me is a judgemental *****", your 'hypocrite' line made no sense whatsoever. Edited January 23, 2014 by Palar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakensang Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Complete nonsense. People use words and phrases they are used to using in the environment they live and grew in. Most people, especially young people, give no thought whatsoever to what they say and how they speak to other people, if they did they wouldn't speak the way they do. It's ignorance and indifference, not malice or the intent to berate others. Do you ask the intent of someone when you see something you don't like? No, you assume they want to murder homosexuals in ovens. I partially agree. Most people who make this kind of jokes wouldn't actively pursue the burning of people with different sexual preferences. In fact, unless someone gives them a good rationalization, like those people being carriers of a dangerous disease, they might even protest if they see such people treated differently in person, especially if they are knowingly friends with one. Otherwise, they are mostly indifferent and victims of culturally ingrained prejudices. Now the interresting questions is: If someone tried to impose restrictions on LGBT-people with such a rationalization, would they likely accept it easier, than with a group where negative views due to a common trait are more frowned upon, like for example with skin color? Edited January 23, 2014 by drakensang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Complete nonsense. People use words and phrases they are used to using in the environment they live and grew in. Most people, especially young people, give no thought whatsoever to what they say and how they speak to other people, if they did they wouldn't speak the way they do. It's ignorance and indifference, not malice or the intent to berate others. Do you ask the intent of someone when you see something you don't like? No, you assume they want to murder homosexuals in ovens. You haven't given me a reason as to why you're flipping out about my words yet. Also, being ignorantly bigoted while not thinking you have any malice towards them is very, very easy. One might think that you're doing it now and just being defensive, but who can really say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) How so? You clearly said "show me someone who doesn't make cracks about groups of people, and I'll show you a liar and a hypocrite." So unless they say something like "everyone but me is a judgemental *****", your 'hypocrite' line made no sense whatsoever. I said offhand remarks. Go find a dictionary if you need help with understand the concept. Edited January 23, 2014 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) You haven't given me a reason as to why you're flipping out about my words yet. Also, being ignorantly bigoted while not thinking you have any malice towards them is very, very easy. One might think that you're doing it now and just being defensive, but who can really say? Really, so just ignore the point I made and go for the ad hominems? Edited January 23, 2014 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Really, so just ignore the point I made and go for the ad hominems? **** off. That's actually a misuse of "ad hominem," but no matter. I'm more interested in why you say that words shouldn't anger anyone, and yet you go enraged from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) That's actually a misuse of "ad hominem," but no matter. I'm more interested in why you say that words shouldn't anger anyone, and yet you go enraged from this. I'm direct and to the point, it's how I communicate. I'm not raging, at all. I just woke up in fact. Why are you trying to divert the discussion away from the points I made? It's pathetic. Oh, and you're trying to say I'm "ragign" to make my point somehow invalid without addressing the point at all. That's an ad hominem. You should find a dictionary as well. Edited January 23, 2014 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm direct and to the point, it's how I communicate. I'm not raging, at all. I just woke up in fact. Why are you trying to divert the discussion away from the points I made? It's pathetic. Oh, and you're trying to say I'm "ragign" to make my point somehow invalid without addressing the point at all. That's an ad hominem. You should find a dictionary as well. You were the one who diverted it when you failed to mention my point about how easy it is to be ignorantly bigoted. You don't have to be a *** member to be racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 You were the one who diverted it when you failed to mention my point about how easy it is to be ignorantly bigoted. You don't have to be a *** member to be racist. When you lace something with personal innuendo, I don't respond to it. You seem used to immediately go for personal attacks the moment someone doesn't agree with you. (see what I did there? That's not how you discuss something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 When you lace something with personal innuendo, I don't respond to it. You seem used to immediately go for personal attacks the moment someone doesn't agree with you. (see what I did there? That's not how you discuss something) Very well. It is easy to be ignorantly bigoted. You don't have to be a *** member to be racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Very well. It is easy to be ignorantly bigoted. You don't have to be a *** member to be racist. And if no one has ever had a discussion with you about such casual use of slurs and explained why it's a ****** thing to do, it becomes a matter of not knowing any better and having terrible parents. However, simply using words that can be used as slurs does not automatically mean it's meant as an insult. Making fun of racial stereotypes or using said stereotypes doesn't make you a racist. Just like making fun of the stereotypical flamboyant homosexual does't make you hoomphobic. It's a cultural thing, not seeded in actual racism. Even having prejudices isn't racism, it's ignorance. People throw around the racism and sexism card completely out of turn because it's convenient and it usually stops the debate immediately. Too bad I'm not intimidated by it eh? Actual racism is very rare in the western world. It's more common in South America and Asia. Japanese are probably the most racists people in the world but it's somehow ok because they aren't caucasian. Which is hypocrisy and indeed racist, ACTUALLY racist, against white people, ironically enough. Edited January 23, 2014 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 And if no one has ever had a discussion with you about such casual use of slurs and explained why it's a ****** thing to do, it becomes a matter of not knowing any better and having terrible parents. However, simply using words that can be used as slurs does not automatically mean it's meant as an insult. Making fun of racial stereotypes or using said stereotypes doesn't make you a racist. Just like making fun of the stereotypical flamboyant homosexual does't make you hoomphobic. It's a cultural thing, not seeded in actual racism. Even having prejudices isn't racism, it's ignorance. People throw around the racism and sexism card completely out of turn because it's convenient and it usually stops the debate immediately. Too bad I'm not intimidated by it eh? Actual racism is very rare in the western world. It's more common in South America and Asia. Japanese are probably the most racists people in the world but it's somehow ok because they aren't caucasian. Which is hypocrisy and indeed racist, ACTUALLY racist, against white people, ironically enough. It's a cultural thing, yes, because it's based on a culture steeped in racism or homophobia or what have you. Whether or not something is meant as an insult isn't entirely relevant; some terms used in most contexts simply are insulting due to the perception of the insulted group, the history of the term and the boneheadedness of those using it. Also, "actual racism" isn't rare at all, it's just not overtly seen in mass media very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's a cultural thing, yes, because it's based on a culture steeped in racism or homophobia or what have you. Whether or not something is meant as an insult isn't entirely relevant; some terms used in most contexts simply are insulting due to the perception of the insulted group, the history of the term and the boneheadedness of those using it. Also, "actual racism" isn't rare at all, it's just not overtly seen in mass media very often. You are responsible for your own perceptions. If you get insulted by something that's not meant as an insult, that's on you and no one else. Everyone could get insulted by a plethora of things if they wanted to be offended. There are so many people who look for something to be offended about, it's rather sad and diverts the attention from the REAL problems of cultural, racial and sexual mixing of people. It's crying wolf and we are at the point now that peole stop caring and the real abuse gets ignored. It's always the Russians that are the villains in movies, how is that not racial stereotypes in media? Oh, right, they don't have dark enough skin to warrant such consideration, sorry. Maybe I should get offended and start writing letters because I'm half Russian, even though I was born and raised in Finland. Oh, and racism is incredibly prevelant in media, just not western media and since it's not perpetrated by caucasians, nobody cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 You are responsible for your own perceptions. If you get insulted by something that's not meant as an insult, that's on you and no one else. Everyone could get insulted by a plethora of things if they wanted to be offended. There are so many people who look for something to be offended about, it's rather sad and diverts the attention from the REAL problems of cultural, racial and sexual mixing of people. It's crying wolf and we are at the point now that peole stop caring and the real abuse gets ignored. Typo, or Freudian slip? It's always the Russians that are the villains in movies, how is that not racial stereotypes in media? Oh, right, they don't have dark enough skin to warrant such consideration, sorry. Maybe I should get offended and start writing letters because I'm half Russian, even though I was born and raised in Finland. I thought they stopped doing that. I think that the Russian population isn't high enough in the West to raise sufficient awareness on that, but if you do see it as problematic, go for it (I haven't watched enough movies to confirm for myself). Oh, and racism is incredibly prevelant in media, just not western media and since it's not perpetrated by caucasians, nobody cares. Also because it's not local media, so... fewer local people will care about what foreigners do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Typo, or Freudian slip? No idea what you're referring to.[ I thought they stopped doing that. I think that the Russian population isn't high enough in the West to raise sufficient awareness on that, but if you do see it as problematic, go for it (I haven't watched enough movies to confirm for myself). No, I don't see it as problematic. Also because it's not local media, so... fewer local people will care about what foreigners do? So it's ok as long as you don't see it? Oh.. the irony... it's tangible. Just stop lol, this is too funny now. Edited January 23, 2014 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 No idea what you're referring to. The "mixing" part. No, I don't see it as problematic. Then why are you talking about it? Unless it's just scoring cheap points. So it's ok as long as you don't see it? Oh.. the irony... it's tangible. Just stop lol, this is too funny now. No, I'm explaining why the socially conscious frequently don't see it, because it's not being presented to them. It doesn't actually make it okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The "mixing" part. How could it be taken as a typo? I mean that there are severe problems already when refugees come to a country in large numbers. It's mostly an European thing however and the problems arise because they don't want to be here, they don't want to adapt and the native population doesn't want them. Shouting "Racism" at every opportunity only makes matters worse because it obfuscates the real issues. You're being overly sensitive again towards a phrase that had no malice or hostile intent in it at all. Then why are you talking about it? Unless it's just scoring cheap points. To point out that you can get offended by anything if you wnat to be morally outraged in order to feel better about yourself, or to simply divert attention away from dealing with your own stuff. Not saying that's the case even most of the time, but I've seen it often enough to be saddened by it. No, I'm explaining why the socially conscious frequently don't see it, because it's not being presented to them. It doesn't actually make it okay. Which brings us back to hypocrisy. If you truly cared about social injustice, you would go beyond what's in your face and do some actual research instead of sittng behind your KB, being outraged at ridiculous comments made by an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilizhra Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 How could it be taken as a typo? I mean that there are severe problems already when refugees come to a country in large numbers. It's mostly an European thing however and the problems arise because they don't want to be here, they don't want to adapt and the native population doesn't want them. Shouting "Racism" at every opportunity only makes matters worse because it obfuscates the real issues. You're being overly sensitive again towards a phrase that had no malice or hostile intent in it at all. Opinion noted. To point out that you can get offended by anything if you wnat to be morally outraged in order to feel better about yourself, or to simply divert attention away from dealing with your own stuff. Not saying that's the case even most of the time, but I've seen it often enough to be saddened by it. If we don't educate idiots, they'll remain idiots. Which brings us back to hypocrisy. If you truly cared about social injustice, you would go beyond what's in your face and do some actual research instead of sittng behind your KB, being outraged at ridiculous comments made by an idiot. I already said I wasn't outraged. However, idiocy still damages the community and should be dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 If we don't educate idiots, they'll remain idiots. You finally get to the heart of the matter. Is it their fault they are idiots? Did they choose to be raised by idiots? Did they choose to be born in some sinkhole someone decided to call a town? Since the answer is obviously no on all accounts, should they be banned from using the internet? If yes then how will they ever be anything else? They will either learn on their own in time or get punched in the face enough times. No amount of moral outrage will change the way they think, or rather don't think. I already said I wasn't outraged. However, idiocy still damages the community and should be dealt with. By incineration? Or the internet equivalent of it, banning? I hate to use this word too often but... irony much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eartharioch Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 If we don't educate idiots, they'll remain idiots. I already said I wasn't outraged. However, idiocy still damages the community and should be dealt with. Idiocy <> Ignorance. Education cures ignorance. An educated idiot is an armed idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Idiocy <> Ignorance. Education cures ignorance. An educated idiot is an armed idiot. Life experiences cures idiocy. Sadly, we wrap our kids in cotton today and then wonder why they act like idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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