A case for a more robust preferred status

[Quraswren]

I'm telling you, I've got 5 characters on LoTRO and I only paid for one month,

everything you unlock while a subscriber you keep, EVERYTHING

the only thing that you can't do is advance ranks on the crafting guild, which I had to buy from the store

 

Then you are bugged and at some point it will be fixed as your case in not normal.

 

You also cannot spend destiny points as a premium player. Thats VIP only as well

Edited January 14, 2013 by Quraswren

[pudim]

Then you are bugged and at some point it will be fixed as your case in not normal.

 

You also cannot spend destiny points as a premium player.

I'm not bugged, I'm playing for two years, my brother does too, so my cousin and lots of friends, and they're all like this

 

about destiny points it is true, but I never paid atention to them anyway

[Monoth]

The point of the death issue is to encourage a person to subscribe.... Given I hardly ever die leveling a toon so I don't see any major issue with this... Once your health drops below 25% just take off running the mobs will reset.

 

Also I agree that the credit cap needs to stay due to gold farmers, but I wouldn't mind if there were credit cap upgrades you could buy. Like another poster mention up to a million credits max... Same thing for commendations. Because then Gold Farmers would have to buy stuff which they won't do.

[Lent_San]

Well obviously the incentive to subscribe isn't great enough, if people who want to play and fully experience the game believe they can get a better deal by buying things piecemeal while staying unsubbed.

Therefore, subscribers need the deal sweetened, so that all players desire to be a subscriber most of all.

Most players would unsub in an instant if they gave f2p people more while not increasing the benefits to remaining subscribed.

TL;DR: The OP and others cannot get more stuff unless subscribers also get more stuff.

 

This.

[Zazyl]

What I want to hear are some real numbers. Currently, I've only seen someone say they've payed $100 or so for unlocks. So what would the proposed cost be to unlock EVERYTHING? $150? Which at the current state of the game, in a year, the freemium has paid $150 while a sub has paid $180 (12x15). How is this paying more than a sub?

 

OK, you say you have to pay for xpacs and future unlocks. Let's say future, new xpac is $40 ($20 for subs) and new unlocks for the next period is MAYBE $100. So now freemium has paid (150 + 40 + 100) $290 for 2 yrs of SWTOR... a sub has paid $380!! (180x2 + 20 for xpac).

 

So as it stands with the numbers people are throwing around... it would NOT pay to be a sub... which only further enforces sub arguments that, NO, freemiums should NOT be allowed to unlock everything.

 

Now some REAL freemium numbers (cuz the sub numbers ARE real) that could disprove this, could lend freemium arguments much more weight. But as it stands, subs are getting screwed if freemiums get what they are asking for.

[Coldin]

Credit Cap and Limited Item rewards are two of the worst parts of F2P, mainly because there's no way to get rid of them short of subscribing. Everything else has some kind of unlock, or pass, or boost that brings F2P up to Subscriber level.

 

The mail and chat restrictions are also pretty silly, and I really don't see the need for those to exist for players that have actually put some money down on the game. It's not like those restrictions really stop gold farmers anyway.

[mothear]

What I want to hear are some real numbers. Currently, I've only seen someone say they've payed $100 or so for unlocks. So what would the proposed cost be to unlock EVERYTHING? $150? Which at the current state of the game, in a year, the freemium has paid $150 while a sub has paid $180 (12x15). How is this paying more than a sub?

 

OK, you say you have to pay for xpacs and future unlocks. Let's say future, new xpac is $40 ($20 for subs) and new unlocks for the next period is MAYBE $100. So now freemium has paid (150 + 40 + 100) $290 for 2 yrs of SWTOR... a sub has paid $380!! (180x2 + 20 for xpac).

 

So as it stands with the numbers people are throwing around... it would NOT pay to be a sub... which only further enforces sub arguments that, NO, freemiums should NOT be allowed to unlock everything.

 

Now some REAL freemium numbers (cuz the sub numbers ARE real) that could disprove this, could lend freemium arguments much more weight. But as it stands, subs are getting screwed if freemiums get what they are asking for.

You forgot the 12,000 (at a minimum) cartel coins that the subscriber gets as well which means after 2 years it is still cheaper to be a subscriber.

[eldefail]

TL;DR, sorry, I'm a jerk like that.

 

Anyway I'm a subscriber and will be for the foreseeable future and I can totally get behind letting ANYBODY who spends ANY money on cartel coins or spends coins in the shop getting free customer service when it bugs out.

 

With the bugged tooltips that were there for a while (are they still?) that said certain single character perks were account wide but really weren't, I honestly find it unpardonable that these people, who gave Bioware/EA their MONEY, are not eligible for real customer service and support to get this **** working.

 

Apparently it's technically not theft since you paid for the COINS, but when those coins don't buy what you thought you were buying or what you bought does not WORK, you really should be completely eligible for customer service in this regard.

[Edzew]

Are you aware that even as a subscriber, each time you use a medical probe, the time you have to wait to use it goes up until after using 2 or so it's not even worth it to use them anymore?

 

i have actually used them a lot in instances when im solo. if for some reason i die but take out a few guys i can rez and try and finish off the mob.. there have been a few times where i have died 3 times but since i rezed i was able to complete the mission kuz i whittled them down.

 

i was a subber for the last two months (mostly kuz i forgot to unsub) but i also bought the game when it came out. i totally agree with the OP. i quit playing a few weeks after launch because i didn't think this game was worth the $15 a month subscription. when it went F2P i came back kuz i said if it ever did go free to play i would... well the restrictions were way to much even as a preferred player, the only reason i re subbed was because i saw i could unlock the chis and wanted to make a Jedi Chiss, little did i know i could only have two toons active and i couldn't make any new ones. when my month is over i doubt ill come back due to the limitations, all other Free to play MMOs i play don't have any limitations at all i can make multiple toons on a server, no credit cap, no XP nerf, no extra limitations to PVP areas or dungeons, NOTHING!!! i really wish they would just drop the hole subscription thing all together and truly go free to play or at least buy to play.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I made a suggestion thread about similar things and it'd be great if people who agree with the OP check out my thread and give it some feedback: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5724452#post5724452

 

The basics of my proposal:

1) sell credit and commendation cap unlocks. This benefits both the devs and community in several ways: a) the devs get money because people will likely love being able to increase their in game wallet sizes. b) it benefits GTN sellers because it increases the number of people who can afford expensive items on the GTN to more than just subscribers c) by allowing preferred status people to increase the commendation wallet cap they can gear themselves up as fully as a sub, no more having an undergeared teammate for level 50 content because a commendation cap prevented them from buying the BiS gear for their class.

 

2) allow all players, regardless of account type, to send items/credits between characters within the same Legacy. By just improving the quality of life for non-subs it gives them more reason to keep playing and paying.

 

3) rather than a "death tax" where, once you use up your field rezs you're out until you buy more, make them a weekly allotment. Operating similar to the FP/WZ restrictions you get X number of probes per week and can buy a weekly pass for unlimited field rezs that week. This has several benefits: a) it is forgiving of newbies who may screw up a lot in their first few levels and use up the few field rezs they have within a few hours of playing b) by being forgiving to newbies it means they aren't going to become super frustrated and possibly quite before reaching high levels c) by offering them weekly chances to enjoy field rezs they will have a better chance to understand its benefits and why having that benefit as a sub is nice or why buying a weekly pass may be worth the money; currently they get a few probes and then have to decide, based on what little experience they got with them, whether it is worth it to them to buy more probes; preferred could be given more weekly probes than F2P.

 

4) allow F2P people to trade BoP items they win during a FP with FP group members before the timer binds the item to them. In the event that they accidentally roll "need" on an item they get the chance to make good by trading the item to the group member who should have gotten the item. Just improves community overall by not giving subs/preferred people a reason to hate newbie F2P people who may screw up because they didn't know better but can't redeem their mistake because of account restrictions beyond their control.

[Zazyl]

You forgot the 12,000 (at a minimum) cartel coins that the subscriber gets as well which means after 2 years it is still cheaper to be a subscriber.

 

Since that is included as part of the sub fees, they cannot be counted in a real money argument. Edit: correction, yes 12k coins for 2 yrs, duh I wasn't thinking

 

I'm talking about actual, out-of-pocket dollars comparison here.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Zazyl

[mothear]

Except it's not a true comparison as your $150 doesn't include any unlock for FP/WZ/Ops/Space. If they provide unlocks for these it would probably be closer to $250-350 in the first year then on going unlocks would be more expensive as every 6 weeks there would be an unlock if you wanted to keep up with subscribers (you think EA would let preferred get new FP's/WZ/Ops/Space without paying extra - no chance).

 

So to be honest your comparison, firstly ignores lockouts that make it a fair comparison and then ignores your subscriber cartel coins that most subscribers will use to unlock legacy, something non-subscribers would have to pay even more for.

[Zazyl]

Except it's not a true comparison as your $150 doesn't include any unlock for FP/WZ/Ops/Space. If they provide unlocks for these it would probably be closer to $250-350 in the first year then on going unlocks would be more expensive as every 6 weeks there would be an unlock if you wanted to keep up with subscribers (you think EA would let preferred get new FP's/WZ/Ops/Space without paying extra - no chance).

 

So to be honest your comparison, firstly ignores lockouts that make it a fair comparison and then ignores your subscriber cartel coins that most subscribers will use to unlock legacy, something non-subscribers would have to pay even more for.

 

I'm not asking for a comparison of current f2p vs sub. With the current state, a f2p DOES pay more than a sub for "equal" access, i.e. buying weekly unlocks, etc.

 

I'm talking about the proposed changes for permanent unlocks, which is the contention that lies within this thread.

 

What would it cost? To PERMANENTLY unlock everything?

 

We actually can't know because it doesn't exist, but that's what we have to know before we can truly argue f2p vs sub cost differentials.

 

My numbers were based on numbers given by others in this thread and were just my attempt at showing how it could be unfair to subs in order to show why subs do not like the idea of permanent unlocks for everything.

 

Personally, as long as the cost is equal, if not more than, what a sub pays, then I'm fine with it. Otherwise, there must be sub-only perks with enough incentive to maintain a sub, else why have them at all?

[Ratajack]

I'm a bit confused by the hostility towards the OP as seems to make a great deal of sense to me.

Subsribers know up front how much they pay per month for unlimited access (aparts from x-pacs).

F2P'ers know they have to buy the "bits" that they want or make do with restricted features.

 

Surely it benefits everyone that the F2P'ers can purchase as many items as possible to remove the restirctions.

 

Most F2P models I know make it so restrictions can be lifted permanently but at a high premium. The F2P'er can then choose if it's better in the long run to pay each premium (even if that is permanent) or just subsribe. For subsribers it works out better for them if the F2P'ers decide to pay the Premium as that generates more revenue.

 

Sure in theory a F2P'er could end up owning everything on permanent unlock but as long as a) they have paid a lot more than a subsriber would or b) a good F2P model would never allow a situation where isn't something in the store to purchase, then it doesn't matter.

 

Pay 800 coins to remove currency cap on 1 character / 2600 all toons? Many F2P'ers would do that generating some decent profit for BW whilst also reinforcing to Subsribers that in the short/medium terms they get a much better deal. Sounds a good diea to me.

 

2600 coins for ALL toons, that is less than the cost of 2 months subscription. I thought you were talking about making the cost for a permanent unlock high. I know I shouldn't be, but I am astounded that anyone thinks they deserve full access to all of the games features for a pittance of the cost to subscribe.

[mothear]

I'm not asking for a comparison of current f2p vs sub. With the current state, a f2p DOES pay more than a sub for "equal" access, i.e. buying weekly unlocks, etc.

 

I'm talking about the proposed changes for permanent unlocks, which is the contention that lies within this thread.

 

What would it cost? To PERMANENTLY unlock everything?

 

We actually can't know because it doesn't exist, but that's what we have to know before we can truly argue f2p vs sub cost differentials.

 

My numbers were based on numbers given by others in this thread and were just my attempt at showing how it could be unfair to subs in order to show why subs do not like the idea of permanent unlocks for everything.

 

Personally, as long as the cost is equal, if not more than, what a sub pays, then I'm fine with it. Otherwise, there must be sub-only perks with enough incentive to maintain a sub, else why have them at all?

 

I agree with you that is why ala carte will always be more expensive, but that is no reason not to provide the service, unlike what some in this thread have been suggesting.

[mothear]

2600 coins for ALL toons, that is less than the cost of 2 months subscription. I thought you were talking about making the cost for a permanent unlock high. I know I shouldn't be, but I am astounded that anyone thinks they deserve full access to all of the games features for a pittance of the cost to subscribe.

 

Jeez mate that is for one unlock only they would still have many others to buy, do some proper maths.

[Ratajack]

Troll or can't read. Nowhere did I say that I wanted stuff for free. I want these unlocks to be available for purchase. Read the thread next time please.....

 

You want these unlocks and more for a pittance of the cost of a subscription.

 

Here's my suggestion:

 

Permanent account wide credit cap removal

Medical probes so you don't have to run back to where you died

XP increase

Permanent unlimited FP's

Permanent unlimited warzones

Permanent unlimited OP's

Permanent commendation cap removal

 

Those are all pretty substantial perks that subscribers enjoy over F2P, so they should cost a pretty penny to unlock. I'm thinking about the cost of a year's sub for each unlock. That would make it about $180 per unlock. That equates to about 24000 CC's per unlock. Or you can get them all for the low, low price of a subscription, or $180 year.

 

Edit: On second thought, I'm not sure that the costs I suggested are high enough. I'm wondering if the cost for these unlocks should be higher, given that I'm expecting that this game will be around at least 2 more years, probably longer. The longer this game is around, the cheaper the unlocks become compared to the amount that the subscriber spends.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Ratajack

[Ratajack]

Actually, the way games are going these days, I'm pretty sure that you're just wrong. No other freemium game has an unlockable credit cap, and they seem to be doing fine. People pay subs not to get the whole game, but to have hassle free gaming. People stay preferred because of real life issues (months away from home), or just wanted to permanently unlock things so you can play on your timescale.

 

The thing that goes against you is that people who don't subscribe will be waving their money at bioware waiting for them to release more unlocks in the store. The money that they would get from releasing these unlocks is certainly not negligeable. I think it's only a matter of time. Other games have done it sooner rather than later. Hopefully bioware will realize this.

 

You are just arguing about HOW we pay for the game. One of us pays a very small chunk of money every month. The other pays a huge amount in one go, then spends a bunch of smaller chunks every content release. Both should work out to be the same, or close. Therefore, both should have access to the full game, including credit cap.

 

Hassle free gaming? Isn't that exactly what you want, only for a small one time payment, as opposed to an ongoing subscription? I'm curious as to exactly what you feel would be a reasonable price for these unlocks that you want.

[mothear]

You want these unlocks and more for a pittance of the cost of a subscription.

 

Here's my suggestion:

 

Permanent account wide credit cap removal

Medical probes so you don't have to run back to where you died

XP increase

Permanent unlimited FP's

Permanent unlimited warzones

Permanent unlimited OP's

 

Those are all pretty substantial perks that subscribers enjoy over F2P, so they should cost a pretty penny to unlock. I'm thinking about the cost of a year's sub for each unlock. That would make it about $180 per unlock. That equates to about 24000 CC's per unlock. Or you can get them all for the low, low price of a subscription, or $180 year.

 

Now we know you are trolling, and not very good at it

[Ratajack]

Credit Cap and Limited Item rewards are two of the worst parts of F2P, mainly because there's no way to get rid of them short of subscribing. Everything else has some kind of unlock, or pass, or boost that brings F2P up to Subscriber level.

 

The mail and chat restrictions are also pretty silly, and I really don't see the need for those to exist for players that have actually put some money down on the game. It's not like those restrictions really stop gold farmers anyway.

 

Define "some money". If I can become a preferred status player by spending a whole $4.99 on cartel coins, then what about the subscriber who has already spent over $200 in sub fees since the game launched?

[Ratajack]

Now we know you are trolling, and not very good at it

 

Why am I trolling? I am proposing making the cost of PERMANENT unlocks high enough that subscription is still the better deal, but those that want to pay a one time fee for a PERMANENT unlock can still obtain it.

 

Out of curiosity, what cost for PERMANENT unlocks would you propose?

[mothear]

Why am I trolling? I am proposing making the cost of PERMANENT unlocks high enough that subscription is still the better deal, but those that want to pay a one time fee for a PERMANENT unlock can still obtain it.

 

Out of curiosity, what cost for PERMANENT unlocks would you propose?

 

OK, I'll bite

 

Wz unlock 7500

FP unlock 7500

OP unlock 7500

Space unlock 2900

Heroic space 2000

Medical unlocks 1500

credit unlock 3500

 

Together with the QoL unlocks already available that would probably work out at around $370 and that doesn't include character unlocks over 6. It also allows EA to charge 1200CC for every new FP/WZ/Op released. Effectively you would have to sub for 21/2 years or so for it to be cheaper in pure monetary terms - of course subscribers still have all those free cartel coins to spend on top of that.

 

Just my suggestion.

[leojreimroc]

OK, I'll bite

 

Wz unlock 7500

FP unlock 7500

OP unlock 7500

Space unlock 2900

Heroic space 2000

Medical unlocks 1500

credit unlock 3500

 

Together with the QoL unlocks already available that would probably work out at around $370 and that doesn't include character unlocks over 6. It also allows EA to charge 1200CC for every new FP/WZ/Op released. Effectively you would have to sub for 21/2 years or so for it to be cheaper in pure monetary terms - of course subscribers still have all those free cartel coins to spend on top of that.

 

Just my suggestion.

 

These prices are pretty decent. Maybe a bit on the high side for the WZ/OP/FP though, but still not bad.

 

-edit-

 

To make prices more appetizing, usually games sell instances individually, so it's easier to buy. So 1k cartel coins per permanent access to each instance, something like that. Or you can sell them in groups. I like this system personally, so you can buy what you want.

Edited January 15, 2013 by leojreimroc

[Gavin_Kelvar]

2600 coins for ALL toons, that is less than the cost of 2 months subscription. I thought you were talking about making the cost for a permanent unlock high. I know I shouldn't be, but I am astounded that anyone thinks they deserve full access to all of the games features for a pittance of the cost to subscribe.

 

The account wide unlock to use Artifact quality items costs 2700 CC. Artifact quality items directly impacts how good your character stats can be and thus how effective you are with your class. I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to have an unlock that has no direct bearing on your in game performance, and thus group performance, not cost more than an unlock that directly impacts your character's combat abilities.

 

If they charge 2700 CC for credit cap restriction removal and 2700 CC for commendation cap restriction removal that would cost them more than 40 USD for those two items alone. However, it is quite probable that people would gladly pay that much for those two unlocks. The devs would make a killing selling these items.

 

As for medical probes: have the probes as a weekly allotment functioning exactly like the FP/WZ weekly allotment. Sell a weekly pass that gives unlimited medical probes at the same price for other weekly unlocks (240 CC/week or 940 CC/month/unlock). In order to reap the same sub benefits of unlimited FP/WZ/Space/Med Probes for an entire month it would cost about 3820 CC or over 20 USD per month.

[Edzew]

OK, I'll bite

 

Wz unlock 7500

FP unlock 7500

OP unlock 7500

Space unlock 2900

Heroic space 2000

Medical unlocks 1500

credit unlock 3500

 

Together with the QoL unlocks already available that would probably work out at around $370 and that doesn't include character unlocks over 6. It also allows EA to charge 1200CC for every new FP/WZ/Op released. Effectively you would have to sub for 21/2 years or so for it to be cheaper in pure monetary terms - of course subscribers still have all those free cartel coins to spend on top of that.

 

Just my suggestion.

 

i would be with all that except the space unlocks.... that crap should be free because like i said its crap!!! B^P but then again i wouldn't care kuz i would never use it anyways so bleh!! but to charge for it is a joke!!! now if it was jump to light speed that would be a whole different story!!!! B^)