Is it time we apologise?

[justiceface]

I wholeheartedly agree with the original post. People complain too much on the forum, if I was a developer I would be discouraged by the responses I've read. Bioware has done a great job with this game, while it may not be perfect, it is a work in progress. What people need to remember is that this game just hit one year. The game is being constantly added onto with new items, flashpoints, ops, bug fixes as they are reported (which from what I've seen people tend to prefer to moan and groan on the forums than make an actually constructive bug report and wonder why the game still has bugs), and even more cool stuff is yet to come. So to Bioware I say thank you for this game that we have all waited for years for, and apologies for all the whiny trolls on the forums, don't be discouraged by them, your fans want you to keep up the great work.

 

You ever think that the amount of complaints has something to do with the product? Bioware has made some silly missteps that have annoyed people across the board(see the issue the recent fix to cartel market armor). That the game is new isn't an excuse, if anything it makes some of these issues more annoying, especially when we are talking about the inclusion of features that have proven successful and customer friendly and are in place in similar and older games. Also the complaints are primarily from people who want the game improved and who don't want to see repeated mistakes.

[Ansalem]

apologize? really? I think bioware should apologize to all of us for putting up with this for over a year now. They are slow on bug fixes, ignore hackers, and are now charging us for the expac of makeb which ohlen originally said would be a giant patch that no one had to pay for. I'm amazed they haven't lost all their subscribers because of the sloppiness they have displayed in the first year of this game. It feels like we are still beta testing.

[Lu-Wan]

I'm reading a lot of these comments and how some agree and disagree. Well, guess I'll shell out my two credits:

 

First of all, I have been VERY pleased with what I have seen. I lost my MMO virginity to Star Trek Online and in it's glory days, it was very much like this one. Unfortunately as time went on and after Perfect World Entertainment acquired Cryptic, the game slowly devolved from an MMO out to create something new into a giant marketing scheme. For example, when the game first launched, the developers came out and said, "Tell us how we can create a better game and we will do our best to deliver." Out of the many MANY suggestions people gave, Cryptic did a fantastic job of picking out the most consistent suggestions and applying them to the game. But of course, everyone still had complaints and a lot of them were born out of, "Why isn't this game being specifically tailored for me? I PAY FOR IT!!!" I'm going to take a second to break from my main piece here, and throw a few words to that particular crowd who is reading this right now. If you are unhappy with how BioWare has "Ignored" your specific suggestions, cancel your sub, turn off your computer and go away. An MMO can't be tailored to one person. In fact, any game, MMO or not, can't, unless of course you are the creator of said game and you have no desire to make any sales off of it. Creating a game is about creating something that will appeal to a large group of people playing it. The gameplay and story can't be custom tailored to a select few because what works for three or four people, may not work for a thousand. I am with the original poster all the way on this in that we don't have a right to complain about content and how quickly game updates come out. As a subscriber, what we are REALLY paying for is server use. That's right, server use. So unless the game is on a crash streak, or you're unhappy with the long down time, please do all of us who enjoy the game a favor and shut up.

 

Now back to the main piece. As time went on with my days in STO, things seemed to be getting better and better, that is, until Atari went bankrupt, forcing Cryptic to find a new home. I could go into greater detail, but let's just say that now the game is in a state of, "We're going to release this, and you're going to like it and if your a subscriber, f*** you, we don't care, we're more interested in making money of of our F2P schemes." This beings me to another point, BioWare's AWESOME F2P system. It's like a glorified trial version and I appreciate that. In STO, I got snubbed, and that's an understatement. The F2P system in STO is pretty much identical to those who pay. There are very few and minor perks to being a subscriber, but nothing like the setup here. As a F2Per, I weighed all the pros and cons of pay vs freeload and I must say, freeloading here, just isn't very doable. I mean restricted access to warzones, earn 25% less xp and all the other things really made me feel like an F2Per should. So I chose to subscribe and so far I find it quite worth it. I was also very please with story progression. WAY more impressive than in STO. Anyway, my point in all of this is this. BioWare should consider taking the EVE Online route, because here is the truth: EVE Online has a cult of players who have pretty much always been there since EVE's birth who will never stop playing EVE. If you try to complain about something being unfair in EVE, a developer will reply with "So you think something is unfair? Okay please tell me what that is... oh yeah? Well... TOO BAD!" EVE Online doesn't try and rope people in with free stuff and try to keep them with promises of comforting the player and telling them that everything will be made as best to their liking. No, EVE is a game that has its player base and if new people want to join, they can and if they hate it, they don't care. The same could easily apply to TOR. How? It's freaking STAR WARS!!! There will always be Star Wars fans and therefore ALWAYS be a good amount of people playing TOR. I've heard stories of Star Wars fans who have never played an MMO or any video games for that matter, go out, buy a PC and jump into the game. BioWare and Lucasarts and EA are never going to hurt from this game. Why? Let me put to you this way:

 

Jim: "Hey man, you gotta check out this new game SWTOR."

Bob: "I don't know man. I'm just not sure I want to spend time playing videogames."

Jim: "But you get to explore planets and fight bad guys etc."

Bob: "Yeah, but it's all fantasy. None of it is real."

Jim: "Well yeah, but there are lightsabers."

Bob: "I'll begin downloading right away!"

 

That is a common scenario for getting people to play TOR. It may require a little more persuasion, but you get th gist. I mean who doesn't want to try a game where you get to be a Jedi?

 

So all in all BioWare, I am sorry. Sorry that you have to deal with ungrateful people who can't take a step back and see all the positives about this game. I am sorry that some of your players can't accept that an MMO is meant for all to play, not just a select few and I'm sorry that only one person out of thousands had the balls to stand up, become very humble and admit that the gaming community is wrong to complain the way they do. I would like to say that as a subscriber, I feel like my money is put to good use and that I feel I get the treatment and access to all the features that I feel I should have access to. I wouldn't mind a little higher of a stipend, but it's no big deal. I will continue to pay for my server usage and in return just as that you continue to expand this game and continue to make it the awesome game that it is!

[DigitalDreamz]

You can apologize to them all you want. You can send them roses and tissues because you made them cry and some baby wipes for their bottoms. Pat them on the back and tell them everythings going to be OK but I have information that may be shocking to:

 

The forums didn't cause the layoffs nor did it cause the massive 75%+ drop in subscriptions. The main reason for the drops are quite simple guys. This game has failed to deliver.

 

You know who's fault that is? Take a wild guess!!!

*Judging by some remarks on here I'd suggest some of you apologists don't have the mental capacity to figure it out*

 

I'll answer it for you:

The developers are at fault. Not a single forum member or customer caused ANYTHING.

 

If the developers aren't confident in their product or need people to be gentle to their feelings they seriously need to **** and find a new job. If the devs can't stand up to scrutiny and criticism they're in the wrooooong business.They were given half a decade and 200+ million dollars! 200+ million and now you want to be sensitive to their feelings!?

 

I think with the OPs thread you apologists have hit an all time new low...and it was already pretty low to begin with.

[Tsillah]

I play the game because I like it.

 

Have I had criticism over the past year? Hell yeah. I wasn't happy and even quit playing for a while....but I came back.

 

The thing is people get upset and mistakes were made by Bioware. This is the reality, but it's a reality of life just the same. What I am saying is that even though I feel some things could be better still and also think BW did make some mistakes, I don't think that any of that entitles people to act like total ******es. That is still a personal choice.

 

I don't say it's wrong to be upset, but how you go about that is still your choice. You can't blame anyone else for how you behave in the end here. Have I said some things that I might regret now? I don't know but it's possible. In any case at some point you can be an adult and get over yourself and then decide. Is this game worth it to me or not?

 

To me it is, to others it isn't. Such is life. But raging and yelling and swearing and insulting BW directly...I can understand it as an initial reaction but it still is your behaviour. We all are guilty of it sometimes I suppose but the people who keep at it are the real sad story.

 

In the end I wouldn't say that people have to apologise. That's still your choice. But I will say that I am happy to play SWTOR and pay a sub for it. I know it has bugs but the game works for me. I enjoy it and that's my bottom line.

[MaximusRex]

There is a difference between giving critical feedback and being an a-hole, and the vast majority don't understand that difference. If they did I bet our level of interaction would be totally different.

[Lostpenguins]

Yeah. I'm not apologizing for anything either. I pay for my subscription so that is the largest evidence that says that I currently approve of this game.

 

But that doesn't mean I'm currently happy with this game. I would like to feel 80% happy with this game and 20% unhappy with minor gripes here or there, but it's more like 60/40.

 

The operations are too short with too few bosses. Then it takes them forever to release something new and exciting. It's been several months and we've only had one new Operation: TFB. And now we're stuck doing EC that we were already stuck doing for 5 months before. And the mechanics don't make the fight anymore fun, they're just "if any one of the 10 things happen, your raid is wiped". That's not exactly fun. I like raids where the sloppier you play, the harder the encounter gets until it's unmanageable. The RNG in this game is pretty bad for operations. Also, having bosses where being "too good at dps" can be a negative.

 

Then let's add in the clipping of terrain that we get.

 

Or the ability delay that still happens.

 

Or the lack of a ready check (this one still really, really boggles me on why they can't seem to fix this).

 

And BW's refusal for cross-server pvp and pve lfg.

 

These are all things that really bother me. Clean up operations, ability delay, and terrain and I would be so much closer to 80/20.

 

So, basically, I'm paying because, overall, I enjoy the game, but not nearly as much as I would like. And depending how I feel about the expansion and or the next operation I may be unsubbing.

[SentinelDranoel]

When I compare EA's other MMO TSW to that of SWTOR I see such a difference in attitude from the staff from Funcom in comparison to Bioware. They listen to customers, and are quick in response to deal with any issue whatsoever. Bugged out boss? No problem, less than a minute they have came and reset him. I wish EA would give Funcom this game.

 

I have played The Secret World and I have played Kotor, ME1-3, DA: O and DA2; I think you are joking to even suggest the switch. I do not need to have BW on call like a love sick over possesive boyfriend/girlfriend to enjoy a game. Sorry, as a person who played video games before online patches for every game, I can live with a bugged out boss if the overall package is great. Morrowind is my greatest example.

Edited January 11, 2013 by SentinelDranoel

[Drudenfusz]

I started playing with early access over a year ago and never took a break from my subscroption. I still enjoy the game, but I don't think that everything is perferct, so I complain from time to time on the forums. I don'T see any reason to apologise for that. BioWare does mistakes, and they have to read about it. Sadly they are quite bad at listening to those who pay for their service... and with the F2P model I would say they are even worse to those who don't pay (which is a stupid strategy).

[Apeth]

I support the devs. I believe they are putting their all into game. It has its problems and there is some way to go. But I'm loving their hard work and will continue to do so. I hope they maintain a vision for this game and don't let it stagnate. So far so good keep it coming.

[Philastra]

When I compare EA's other MMO TSW to that of SWTOR I see such a difference in attitude from the staff from Funcom in comparison to Bioware. They listen to customers, and are quick in response to deal with any issue whatsoever. Bugged out boss? No problem, less than a minute they have came and reset him. I wish EA would give Funcom this game.

 

I agree I tried TSW for about a month F2P and ended up buying the year sub. The difference of interactions between DEV's, CS, and programmers is a huge difference. The game (TSW) has a market but it isnt the focus of the game which I see this heading to just a market and content is just not happening ie..

1. class balance the Merc is a prime example.

2. lack of proper quality control on updates.

3. when you goto the homepage here The cartel market is the first thing you see of which they sure are pumping out cartel packs.

I really liked this game but as of late , for me its just not what I was looking for so after a Year and 250 for CE. 5 50 toons.....I unsubbed , hoping they get the game back in a direction of the game and at least showing that you care about the player base having a good experience in the game .Putting items that are desireable to player base for sale for RL money only and not adding somthing in game for your paying customers didnt sit well with me. For me an action/actions like this shows me what the focus is on this game (all MMO's want to generate income). But I belive there other ways to go about it.

 

You guys ,BW have made an amazing game and i'm sure making it wasn't the easiest thing, but please dont lose site of that get back more to the roots of this and not the fluff like the cartel market. Get back to the idea you can generate more income if you add to the game to make ppl want to sub.

 

BTW Love Star Wars, I saw it in a drive in when EP. 4 came out, was hooked ever since hehe

Edited January 11, 2013 by Philastra

[justiceface]

I'm reading a lot of these comments and how some agree and disagree. Well, guess I'll shell out my two credits:

 

First of all, I have been VERY pleased with what I have seen. I lost my MMO virginity to Star Trek Online and in it's glory days, it was very much like this one. Unfortunately as time went on and after Perfect World Entertainment acquired Cryptic, the game slowly devolved from an MMO out to create something new into a giant marketing scheme. For example, when the game first launched, the developers came out and said, "Tell us how we can create a better game and we will do our best to deliver." Out of the many MANY suggestions people gave, Cryptic did a fantastic job of picking out the most consistent suggestions and applying them to the game. But of course, everyone still had complaints and a lot of them were born out of, "Why isn't this game being specifically tailored for me? I PAY FOR IT!!!" I'm going to take a second to break from my main piece here, and throw a few words to that particular crowd who is reading this right now. If you are unhappy with how BioWare has "Ignored" your specific suggestions, cancel your sub, turn off your computer and go away. An MMO can't be tailored to one person. In fact, any game, MMO or not, can't, unless of course you are the creator of said game and you have no desire to make any sales off of it. Creating a game is about creating something that will appeal to a large group of people playing it. The gameplay and story can't be custom tailored to a select few because what works for three or four people, may not work for a thousand. I am with the original poster all the way on this in that we don't have a right to complain about content and how quickly game updates come out. As a subscriber, what we are REALLY paying for is server use. That's right, server use. So unless the game is on a crash streak, or you're unhappy with the long down time, please do all of us who enjoy the game a favor and shut up.

 

Now back to the main piece. As time went on with my days in STO, things seemed to be getting better and better, that is, until Atari went bankrupt, forcing Cryptic to find a new home. I could go into greater detail, but let's just say that now the game is in a state of, "We're going to release this, and you're going to like it and if your a subscriber, f*** you, we don't care, we're more interested in making money of of our F2P schemes." This beings me to another point, BioWare's AWESOME F2P system. It's like a glorified trial version and I appreciate that. In STO, I got snubbed, and that's an understatement. The F2P system in STO is pretty much identical to those who pay. There are very few and minor perks to being a subscriber, but nothing like the setup here. As a F2Per, I weighed all the pros and cons of pay vs freeload and I must say, freeloading here, just isn't very doable. I mean restricted access to warzones, earn 25% less xp and all the other things really made me feel like an F2Per should. So I chose to subscribe and so far I find it quite worth it. I was also very please with story progression. WAY more impressive than in STO. Anyway, my point in all of this is this. BioWare should consider taking the EVE Online route, because here is the truth: EVE Online has a cult of players who have pretty much always been there since EVE's birth who will never stop playing EVE. If you try to complain about something being unfair in EVE, a developer will reply with "So you think something is unfair? Okay please tell me what that is... oh yeah? Well... TOO BAD!" EVE Online doesn't try and rope people in with free stuff and try to keep them with promises of comforting the player and telling them that everything will be made as best to their liking. No, EVE is a game that has its player base and if new people want to join, they can and if they hate it, they don't care. The same could easily apply to TOR. How? It's freaking STAR WARS!!! There will always be Star Wars fans and therefore ALWAYS be a good amount of people playing TOR. I've heard stories of Star Wars fans who have never played an MMO or any video games for that matter, go out, buy a PC and jump into the game. BioWare and Lucasarts and EA are never going to hurt from this game. Why? Let me put to you this way:

 

Jim: "Hey man, you gotta check out this new game SWTOR."

Bob: "I don't know man. I'm just not sure I want to spend time playing videogames."

Jim: "But you get to explore planets and fight bad guys etc."

Bob: "Yeah, but it's all fantasy. None of it is real."

Jim: "Well yeah, but there are lightsabers."

Bob: "I'll begin downloading right away!"

 

That is a common scenario for getting people to play TOR. It may require a little more persuasion, but you get th gist. I mean who doesn't want to try a game where you get to be a Jedi?

 

So all in all BioWare, I am sorry. Sorry that you have to deal with ungrateful people who can't take a step back and see all the positives about this game. I am sorry that some of your players can't accept that an MMO is meant for all to play, not just a select few and I'm sorry that only one person out of thousands had the balls to stand up, become very humble and admit that the gaming community is wrong to complain the way they do. I would like to say that as a subscriber, I feel like my money is put to good use and that I feel I get the treatment and access to all the features that I feel I should have access to. I wouldn't mind a little higher of a stipend, but it's no big deal. I will continue to pay for my server usage and in return just as that you continue to expand this game and continue to make it the awesome game that it is!

 

It doesnt take balls to apologize to a large wealthy corporation, it takes the opposite of that(what ever that is). It's stupid to think that the people complaining are only doing so to get something made just for themselves. It's stupid to think that customers don't have a right to be critical of an ongoing service that they are paying for. If you want to thank Bioware you should do that, but don't do that and then tell people they can't voice their opinions, it makes you sound like an ***.

[bpphantom]

TSW isn't a EA MMO

 

EA co-produced TSW, but that's the extent of their involvement.

[TheIrage]

There is a difference between giving critical feedback and being an a-hole, and the vast majority don't understand that difference. If they did I bet our level of interaction would be totally different.

 

There is little difference between ignoring critical feedback and being an a-hole, and the vast majority understand that difference. If Biowared did, I bet our level of interaction would be totally different.

 

[mavix]

apologize? really? I think bioware should apologize to all of us for putting up with this for over a year now. They are slow on bug fixes, ignore hackers, and are now charging us for the expac of makeb which ohlen originally said would be a giant patch that no one had to pay for. I'm amazed they haven't lost all their subscribers because of the sloppiness they have displayed in the first year of this game. It feels like we are still beta testing.

 

Well said.

I don't enjoy being negative about what is going on, I really don't. I rather be very happy with what there is and what is to come. However I have to honest with myself about the current status this game is in. It is far from impressive, far from the amount of improvements/content talked about, and all new features are far off.

Whatever. I don't want to go over this yet again...

[Sleprock]

I still like and play the game, but their recent shift to the cartel market being the only way to attain 80% of the new gear etc is dreadful and disheartens me. I am tired of seeing new armors go to the Cartel Market when CE vendors have been ignored. I am tired of Character creation armors go to the Cartel Market. I want to earn things again in this game, not dish out money.

[jorill]

There is a term used alot at software companies, IT Support and customer service in general and that is "setting customer expectations."

 

At one of their conferences before launch DE said that you would not repeat a single quest when you level a different character. What he failed to mention was this is only for the class story and not for the planet story arcs. I know what he meant but things like that arent setting proper expectations. When you operate this way people will accuse of "lying."

 

I dont consider things they have done lying in that at the time they thought they could do certain things but for either technical, financial, or gameplay reasons decided to scrap or shelve ideas. Ive been in their shoes so to speak so it doesnt really bother me but there a lot of people who wouldnt know and i feel this has been their biggest flaw to date. Communication is really critical in a business of this type. Look at what happened with the armor set changes. A lot of people were angry and they came out and explained the situation and that it would take a little time to fix and the majority of people were happy with that. Its things like that can really make a big difference.

 

The only people that need to "apologize" are people that hurl insults at the devs but to be honest its not alot of them.

[DarthOvertone]

Apology for what? Many peeps, like myself, have been paying subs to BW since launch. We have done everything in our power to support EA/BW by voting for their efforts with our pocketbooks.

 

Personally, I haven't been that hard on BW. However, there are some facts that can't be ignored. Two million of the 2.4 million players that initially purchased this game decided it wasn't worth paying a sub for and left. F2P has only improved the situation slightly. That's a problem.

 

The PvP in this game is currently worse than it was just six months ago (since 1.2) with no improvement in sight aside from the future equalization of Expertise on all gear across the board. That's a problem.

 

I lost all confidence in BW's Dev team when I saw them turn out patch after patch with gamebreaking bugs and almost no quality control whatsoever. That situation has improved somewhat, although 1.6 did need a Patch to fix the Patch, even if the bugs that required fixing weren't as gamebreaking as some of the bugs in previous patches.

 

So I'm not apologizing for anything. Nor should I have to.

[Turshek]

While I support programmers, artists, ... all the technical people that built this game, I will always have a problem with middle/top management people at BW/EA involved in this game and instead of apologizing to them, I ask them to think again about their work, how they do it and for what reasons and to remember also that they have a job because I (and many others of course !) bought their products, while I don't need them to live.

 

SWTOR is my last BW game, I didn't bought ME3, I won't buy any other, it's a bit sad considering I was a fan since Baldur's Gate, almost 15 years ago. But really, I have to add BW to the list of companies I won't buy anymore.

 

Mass production of unfinished, half-assed designed, buggy games surrounded by PR, lies and dissimulation might be the way to go for EA but it will be without me.

 

 

I really like some things in SWTOR or at least the intent behind but there's also problems everywhere. I don't see why we should have to apologize to the people responsible for thoses mistakes/errors.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Turshek

[Trenter]

Personally, I haven't been that hard on BW. However, there are some facts that can't be ignored. Two million of the 2.4 million players that initially purchased this game decided it wasn't worth paying a sub for and left. F2P has only improved the situation slightly. That's a problem.

 

None of this is actually facts though...

 

As for the OP I think it's a good thing people are suggesting improvements, pointing out flaws and are vocal about where they would like to see the game go. In my opinion there're limits to how nasty you should be however. Constant doomsaying isn't helping anyone. The only purpose of it is to drive people away from the game. You aren't threatening Bioware with anything because you truly don't know how well or bad the game is doing. I also think it goes way too far when people drag individual developers and community managers in the mud. Asking for people to lose their jobs is a bit too much for my taste. I think it'd be better to just step away from the computer for a while if you've gotten yourself so worked up you're about to write something like that.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Trenter

[lasstn]

While I support programmers, artists, ... all the technical people that built this game, I will always have a problem with middle/top management people at BW/EA involved in this game and instead of apologizing to them, I ask them to think again about their work, how they do it and for what reasons and to remember also that they have a job because I (and many others of course !) bought their products, while I don't need them to live..

 

Why, it wasent the middle/top management people who made the game, if you got beef with how the game is, it is the designers, you got beef with, not the management.

[DiabloDoom]

TSW isn't a EA MMO

 

Yes it is.

[lasstn]

Yes it is.

 

No, it is not.

[DiabloDoom]

EA doesnt own TSW they just distributed it

 

They funded a great part of it when funcom ran out of money. I think we all know EA aren't developers but rather publishers....

[DiabloDoom]

No, it is not.

 

http://www.ea.com/the-secret-world