Stop complaining about stun bubble...

[jizerai]

I'm not stun bubble specd and I could wipe the floor with you with any of my 50s.

 

I don't see how this has anything to do with the discussion? "My dad's stronger then your dad"-arguments aren't really relevant.

 

I find myself agreeing with ktkenshinx, the ability itself is a much needed one, but it needs addressing in its current form. Not giving the "correct" amount of resolve, for one, and perhaps if it should only be granted to the caster.

[Caeliux]

Bubble stun is op

 

 

As a healer I hate it. Coordinated (Vent/TS) teams use the strategy called car bomber on enemy healers (me). They bubble themselves up, sprint in, and click it off and stun me. When it wears off 2nd sorc does it again. I have maybe, maybe half resolve so a 3rd stun finishes me off. That's 10 seconds of being Hard Stunned. Then I'm dead. I spend my entire match perma stunned and its ********

 

 

The bubble was designed for squishy lighting sorcs to have some defensive ability. Not to be spammed and clicked off by the entire group.

 

This spec is stupid, dumb and op.

 

 

Whatever you say doesn't matter because Bioware will at least fix the resolve on it. So yeah, broken op spec is broken

 

Sums it up right here ^

 

Anyone arguing those facts will tell people they need to L2P, when in fact bubble stun needs revamped so people can least play their toon and not be hard stunned constantly.

 

I laugh when people say they bubble stun to to survive on a sorc or sage, I never needed this bubble stun to play a sage, never.

 

Ever.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Caeliux

[Calitri]

Make the stun only be able to trigger off on the Sorcerer only, problem solved. Hell have resolve break stuns break completely when resolve fills up and that would solve quite a few problems with CC in the game in general. In my opinion anyway.

[PloGreen]

Make the stun only be able to trigger off on the Sorcerer only, problem solved. Hell have resolve break stuns break completely when resolve fills up and that would solve quite a few problems with CC in the game in general. In my opinion anyway.

 

That only solves the problem for you, not the problem of making sages viable in a rated environment.

 

If you are in agreement that bubble stun is needed for survival for sages then all sages should have it as a baseline ablity that comes with the bubble (self pop on caster only). Meaning balance/madness sages dont have to spec 12 points into tele (making them a hybrid) to use it and gimp their dps output. That is a fair comprimise imo.

 

I forget who suggested that but its a sensible idea.

Edited January 12, 2013 by PloGreen

[Raansu]

I'll stop complaining about bubbles when K.O. gets its 3 second stun back.

[DoppaE]

stun bubble is annoying. but more importantly it needs work on how it fills up your resolve. i chew stun bubblers like bubble gum though. project, force in balance, force breach, bubble comes down it's clobberin' time!!!

[Yeochins]

Bubble stun is op

 

 

As a healer I hate it. Coordinated (Vent/TS) teams use the strategy called car bomber on enemy healers (me). They bubble themselves up, sprint in, and click it off and stun me. When it wears off 2nd sorc does it again. I have maybe, maybe half resolve so a 3rd stun finishes me off. That's 10 seconds of being Hard Stunned. Then I'm dead. I spend my entire match perma stunned and its ********

 

 

The bubble was designed for squishy lighting sorcs to have some defensive ability. Not to be spammed and clicked off by the entire group.

 

This spec is stupid, dumb and op.

 

 

Whatever you say doesn't matter because bioware will at least fix the resolve on it. So yeah, broken op spec is broken

 

There is a reason they do.

 

The "Paper" class (DPS Sorcerer) that is supposed to cover your "Rock" (operative) is not viable in rateds. The DPS sorcerer is the class that is supposed to be able to eat through all of the operatives defensive cool-downs. So naturally since most other forms of stun/CC may not work while you have evasion up with a team of snipers/warriors/assassins, you're left with the stun-bubble as the alternative to a missing "Creeping Terror" caster on your team.

 

The whole stun-bubble issue is a direct result of poor class balance. The DPS sorcerer is not viable because its damage can be clensed (madness), lacks burst, and is squishy as hell. A standard healing sorcerer is barely viable because it needs an incredible amount of support to get heals off. The sorcerer is a highly immobile healer in comparison to the Operative, can be interrupted, and is extremely squishy with no damage mitigation cooldowns.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Yeochins

[Divona]

 

The whole stun-bubble issue is a direct result of poor class balance. The DPS sorcerer is not viable because its damage can be clensed (madness), lacks burst, and is squishy as hell. A standard healing sorcerer is barely viable because it needs an incredible amount of support to get heals off. The sorcerer is a highly immobile healer in comparison to the Operative, can be interrupted, and is extremely squishy with no damage mitigation cooldowns.

 

Someone finaly getting big picture. I have sage main since beta tests and pvp'ed but stopped and went to guard many many patches ago. I saw same problem as you actually pointed out. Its direct result of mesing up class trees and their purpose. Dont forget sage's also got free instant self heal i wonder why was that needed hint hint...

 

Bubble stun is only option to stay alive longer before getting melted by smashers or stupid dps maraduers/sents that still havent been addressed after many patches. Im waiting new expansion to see how they deal with sage trees, shadows imo are very good, but sage dps trees are terrible in pvp without some healing hybrid or bubble spec.....

[foxmob]

I don't entirely disagree with you here, but there's some...misinformation as well....

 

There is a reason they do.

 

The "Paper" class (DPS Sorcerer) that is supposed to cover your "Rock" (operative) is not viable in rateds.

operative dps is in a bad place. every class is their kryptonite. they're a lone wolf class that can't lone wolf anyone. they need a stealth partner. everything they do, one of any number of assassin specs can do better. thus, like sorcs, they only bring one viable spec to the rated table: heals.

 

The whole stun-bubble issue is a direct result of poor class balance. The DPS sorcerer is not viable because its damage can be clensed (madness), lacks burst, and is squishy as hell.

madness will absolutely destroy a vanguard, and iirc, cannot be cleansed by scoundrels. I think a commando healer can cleanse one of the dots (mental effect?) if he's spec'd for it, but doesn't madness dot ppl 3 at a time in a similar way that smash mashes people who aren't even fighting you? (aoe). in any case, madness has good cc, and the dots work very well against most non-force users.

 

A standard healing sorcerer is barely viable because it needs an incredible amount of support to get heals off. The sorcerer is a highly immobile healer in comparison to the Operative, can be interrupted, and is extremely squishy with no damage mitigation cooldowns.

this is why I felt the need to respond. you're kidding, right? there's a reason there are so many sage healers and so few commandos: they're excellent group healers (both classes ate massive dps nerfs early on). no. they aren't op healers. op heals are way atop the mountain. but sage heals are phenomenal. they're the smashers of healing. (easy tiger, talking about aoe not being OP). the only heal class that doesn't need the ops grp to design their strat around them are the ops/scoundrels. although a sage is squishier than a commando, they have more cc and can los any one harasser indefinitely. any healer with more than one opponent to deal with requires support from the rest of the ops.

 

I don't need to repeat what's wrong with bubble stuns. they're definitely broken. Madness does NOT need a buff to be useful in pvp. The heal tree does NOT need a buff to be useful in pvp (that any would say they do made me actually lol). The lightning tree for sorcs is like the gunnery tree for commandos: stationary, prone to interrupts, lacking quick burst, and soft. stun bubble is properly a part of their build, but it's the best thing about their build and belongs on the top of their tree...2nd to top tier at the very least. It's a surviveability tool to make them viable. It's an excellent alternative to the "uninterruptable bubble" that commando medics have and all the roots/stuns & such that snipers have. why it has the same effect on members of the raid or can be popped on call w/o taking dmg or wearing off is beyond me.

 

BW took an excellent defensive ability and turned it into a ridiculously broken offensive abil. remember: all ranged classes received huge side buffs when the ranged abils of VGs/PTs and most stuns got nerfed. that already massively increased ranged survivability. I think,perhaps, they change too much at any given time. but w/e. I'm sure anything I say here won't carry any weight on game dev.

[LarryRow]

I don't get it. Why can't we all just agree that there are just two things that need to be nerfed about stun bubbles.

 

<snip>

 

These are all reasonable things to argue about. Talking about the wholesale REMOVAL of bubble, however, is ridiculous. Sorcs/Sages need it.

 

It's useless to try to reason with him anymore. I know what you say makes sense, you know it, everyone else knows it, but evidently being a mediocre player playing a mediocre class has driven him mad (as in, he's mad, bro). Try to criticize stun bubble and you are instantly branded a FotM lolsmasher who also somehow has all the carnage roots too. You may even buy the "Sun Bubble not OP, just pop from range" argument (even though it can be given to melee, all of whom have gap closers), and are just advocating that stun bubble makes pvp simply unfun. But it doesn't matter, he will still say you need to l2p.

 

If we just keep pointing out all the nonsense in his posts, at least the rest of the community may get a clue.

[Siorac]

That only solves the problem for you, not the problem of making sages viable in a rated environment.

 

If you are in agreement that bubble stun is needed for survival for sages then all sages should have it as a baseline ablity that comes with the bubble (self pop on caster only). Meaning balance/madness sages dont have to spec 12 points into tele (making them a hybrid) to use it and gimp their dps output. That is a fair comprimise imo.

 

I forget who suggested that but its a sensible idea.

 

Yep, that would be fair enough.

[ebado]

I want the guy who thought shields didn't show up as healing to drop by again. He was fun.

[ktkenshinx]

I'll stop complaining about bubbles when K.O. gets its 3 second stun back.

3 second knockdown was broken and unfair. Stun bubbles are only broken in the literal sense that they fill up resolve incorrectly, and they are only unfair in the sense that you can click to remove them.

If you are in agreement that bubble stun is needed for survival for sages then all sages should have it as a baseline ablity that comes with the bubble (self pop on caster only). Meaning balance/madness sages dont have to spec 12 points into tele (making them a hybrid) to use it and gimp their dps output. That is a fair comprimise imo.

 

I forget who suggested that but its a sensible idea.

That sounds reasonable to me, although I don't quite understand what you mean by "self pop on caster only". Does that mean casters can remove it with a right click, but not other targets of the bubble? Or does that mean it would only stun if removed from the caster himself, not another target?

[PloGreen]

3 second knockdown was broken and unfair. Stun bubbles are only broken in the literal sense that they fill up resolve incorrectly, and they are only unfair in the sense that you can click to remove them.

 

That sounds reasonable to me, although I don't quite understand what you mean by "self pop on caster only". Does that mean casters can remove it with a right click, but not other targets of the bubble? Or does that mean it would only stun if removed from the caster himself, not another target?

 

No i think the manual popping needs to go also. It should only stun if it breaks on damage. Should of clarified that. What i meant was bubble stun only works on the caster but its baseline for all trees.

Edited January 12, 2013 by PloGreen

[Yeochins]

operative dps is in a bad place. every class is their kryptonite. they're a lone wolf class that can't lone wolf anyone. they need a stealth partner. everything they do, one of any number of assassin specs can do better. thus, like sorcs, they only bring one viable spec to the rated table: heals.

 

Wrong. A well played Concealment spec.ed Operative can outplay every class besides:

• DPS Tank Assassins
  
• Annihilation Marauder
  

 

The only reason people have problems is because people don't engage and pick their fights smartly. Don't fight a marauder with 30 stacks. Dont fight a Warrior with 4 stacks of shock-wave ready to HULK-smash. Don't fight that deception assassin while he's built up charge-stacks. For a class that is guaranteed the first strike, and get to pick who they fight, the majority of players pick wrong.

 

Well played concealment operatives are kings solo.

 

madness will absolutely destroy a vanguard, and iirc, cannot be cleansed by scoundrels. I think a commando healer can cleanse one of the dots (mental effect?) if he's spec'd for it, but doesn't madness dot ppl 3 at a time in a similar way that smash mashes people who aren't even fighting you? (aoe). in any case, madness has good cc, and the dots work very well against most non-force users.

 

Wrong again. A properly played Powertech will always win. There is no variation of creeping terror, knockback, sprint, Whirlwind, slow and Stun that you can give me that I wont have an answer to as a powertech. Only the baddies loose to the madness sorcerer. Its easy to tell who the baddies are by when they use their grapple or carbonize.

 

Most overly optimized powertech's often don't have to fight an extended fight with a sorcerer due to the sheer faceroll-ness of their rotation. In the cases they do, the lack of skill is pretty visible.

 

this is why I felt the need to respond. you're kidding, right? there's a reason there are so many sage healers and so few commandos: they're excellent group healers (both classes ate massive dps nerfs early on). no. they aren't op healers. op heals are way atop the mountain. but sage heals are phenomenal. they're the smashers of healing. (easy tiger, talking about aoe not being OP). the only heal class that doesn't need the ops grp to design their strat around them are the ops/scoundrels. although a sage is squishier than a commando, they have more cc and can los any one harasser indefinitely. any healer with more than one opponent to deal with requires support from the rest of the ops.

 

So you're trying to turn this conversation into Commando versus Sorcerer healers? Seriously, look at the thread title. Nobody disputes commando's are in a worse place than sorcerers. But comparing one underpowered class to another and saying its overpowered is beyond stupid in terms of an argument.

 

Furthermore, it seems you haven't played a sage judging by your comments. The moment a sage healer is rooted, they can loose 1/2 of their health in 2 GCDs, or 3/4th of their health under focus fire. All it takes is a Carnage marauder to use deadly throw, or a warrior to leap, or a powertech to pull, or a sniper to legshot, etc.

 

You don't seem to understand that line-of-sighting only works against the terribad players. The decent ones aren't going to let themselves be LOS'ed without being stunned/rooted. This is the function of the bubble-stun.

 

I don't need to repeat what's wrong with bubble stuns. they're definitely broken. Madness does NOT need a buff to be useful in pvp. The heal tree does NOT need a buff to be useful in pvp (that any would say they do made me actually lol). The lightning tree for sorcs is like the gunnery tree for commandos: stationary, prone to interrupts, lacking quick burst, and soft. stun bubble is properly a part of their build, but it's the best thing about their build and belongs on the top of their tree...2nd to top tier at the very least. It's a surviveability tool to make them viable. It's an excellent alternative to the "uninterruptable bubble" that commando medics have and all the roots/stuns & such that snipers have. why it has the same effect on members of the raid or can be popped on call w/o taking dmg or wearing off is beyond me.

 

You need to play a madness sorcerer in rateds and let me know how far you get. My predictions is you will be useless beyond compare for every map besides huttball.

 

1. You are not efficient at focus fire due to lack of meaningful burst
   
2. Your damage is spread out over a period of 20-30 seconds. Far too long allowing your damage to be healed.
   
3. Your damage is purgeable by other sorcerers.
   
4. Your DOTs interrupt soft CC (flashbang, whirlwind)
   
5. You require excessive kiting and end up LOSing your own healers depending on enemy placements.
   
6. You are not viable to hold an off-objective.
   
7. Your ability to capture an off-objective requires the other team to be blundering idiots. 20-30 seconds of combat before you can even try to cap is never going to work in terms of moving people from the main-node to the off-node.
   

 

I think before you have the ability to call something over-powered or not needing buffs you need to play that class. I can say smash is overtuned having both a Rage/Unstoppable specced Juggernaught, and Rage specced marauder.

 

Clearly you don't play a healer sorcerer either. Otherwise you would've realize the only reason you can LOS good players is by having the bubble-CC.

 

BW took an excellent defensive ability and turned it into a ridiculously broken offensive abil. remember: all ranged classes received huge side buffs when the ranged abils of VGs/PTs and most stuns got nerfed. that already massively increased ranged survivability. I think,perhaps, they change too much at any given time. but w/e. I'm sure anything I say here won't carry any weight on game dev.

 

It was always used offensively ever since the game started. Back in 1.1.x when there were 2 million players, the hybrid build was used extensively. People would bubble everyone to apply the soft CC. It wasn't a stun, but it was a method of interrupting the Scoundrel/Operative burst at the time. When the Concealment operatives received their first nerfs, the number of sorcerers specced into the bubble-CC decreased dramatically.

 

The Operative/Scoundrel would open, soft CC themselves with their backblast allowing the people time to react, healup and kill.

 

You either haven't been around since the beginning, didn't PvP until 1.1.2 hit, or are purposely being ignorant to nerf the one aspect you can't seem to solve. The bubble-CC has always been used offensively when class balance is out of whack. The sorcerer is the undisputedly the squishiest class in game. When you see the bubble-CC come out in full force, you know they're getting hit far too hard in comparison to their effectiveness at performing their jobs.

 

The scale and popularity of bubble-CC is the litmus test of Bad Class Balance. It always has been since the release of this game.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Yeochins

[ktkenshinx]

Wrong. A well played Concealment spec.ed Operative can outplay every class besides:

• DPS Tank Assassins
  
• Annihilation Marauder
  

 

The only reason people have problems is because people don't engage and pick their fights smartly. Don't fight a marauder with 30 stacks. Dont fight a Warrior with 4 stacks of shock-wave ready to HULK-smash. Don't fight that deception assassin while he's built up charge-stacks.

 

Well played concealment operatives are kings solo.

This isn't a thread about the poor Scrapper/Concealment tree, so I am hesitant to get into this, but you are misrepresenting the class.

 

In terms of duels, you are basically right. I don't think there are a lot of classes I would lose to in a straight up 1v1, so long as all my CDs were up. We just hit too hard, and there just isn't a class that can stand up to us if we also have Disappearing Act ready to reapply FR through another mid-combat Shoot First. If Cool Head is off of CD, we don't even have a problem with resource management. If for whatever reason your target doesn't have his escape up, they are even more screwed. Yes, there are classes that can be troublesome (Pyrotechs and Rage juggs come to mind), but even those fights aren't unwinnable. So if we are just talking about straight up 1v1s, you are more or less right.

 

But as anyone here is going to point out, WZs are not 1v1 fights. Although you do have the occasional 1v1 on a side node, against decent teams, it is quite rare. You can't always choose your battles, especially if your opponents decide to mark you. Once we actually get into WZs, our lack of survivability and defensive CDs relative to other classes is just laughable. The same skillset that makes Scrapper/Concealment players good is, in most cases, better applied on a Sin/Shadow.

[Yeochins]

This isn't a thread about the poor Scrapper/Concealment tree, so I am hesitant to get into this, but you are misrepresenting the class.

 

In terms of duels, you are basically right. I don't think there are a lot of classes I would lose to in a straight up 1v1, so long as all my CDs were up. We just hit too hard, and there just isn't a class that can stand up to us if we also have Disappearing Act ready to reapply FR through another mid-combat Shoot First. If Cool Head is off of CD, we don't even have a problem with resource management. If for whatever reason your target doesn't have his escape up, they are even more screwed. Yes, there are classes that can be troublesome (Pyrotechs and Rage juggs come to mind), but even those fights aren't unwinnable. So if we are just talking about straight up 1v1s, you are more or less right.

 

But as anyone here is going to point out, WZs are not 1v1 fights. Although you do have the occasional 1v1 on a side node, against decent teams, it is quite rare. You can't always choose your battles, especially if your opponents decide to mark you. Once we actually get into WZs, our lack of survivability and defensive CDs relative to other classes is just laughable. The same skillset that makes Scrapper/Concealment players good is, in most cases, better applied on a Sin/Shadow.

 

Warzones are 8 versus 8 fights with a balancing act (for 3 of the 4 warzones) that favors 1 versus 1 superiority.

 

The 1v1 on a side-node should be happening frequently throughout the warzone. Similarly its very common to have team mates segregate enemies from eachother in a brawl. The warrior that just leaped into your group of team-mates is going to be solo'ing. Its very easy to use a shiv or two and move on. Some of the best operatives I've played with have kept the enemy smasher tied up giving us a clear advantage in a straight up brawl.

 

 

Furthermore with expert tranquilizer skills you can very narrowly win a 1 versus 2 on an off-node. The second guy will be a toughie unless his resolve bar fills up and discharges at the right time.

 

You can very easily turn a 1 versus 2 (which you weren't expected to win) into a 1 versus 3, meaning your team is now 7 versus 5 or 6 versus 5 on the main objective..

[dannycarr]

Get rid of this stupid ability its ruining PVP. Yes the bubble stun is fine for the sage/sorc that casts it, but not the whole friggin team. BIOWARE PULL YOUR FINGER OUT AND FIX IT

[ktkenshinx]

Warzones are 8 versus 8 fights with a balancing act (for 3 of the 4 warzones) that favors 1 versus 1 superiority.

 

The 1v1 on a side-node should be happening frequently throughout the warzone. Similarly its very common to have team mates segregate enemies from eachother in a brawl. The warrior that just leaped into your group of team-mates is going to be solo'ing. Its very easy to use a shiv or two and move on. Some of the best operatives I've played with have kept the enemy smasher tied up giving us a clear advantage in a straight up brawl.

 

 

Furthermore with expert tranquilizer skills you can very narrowly win a 1 versus 2 on an off-node. The second guy will be a toughie unless his resolve bar fills up and discharges at the right time.

 

You can very easily turn a 1 versus 2 (which you weren't expected to win) into a 1 versus 3, meaning your team is now 7 versus 5 or 6 versus 5 on the main objective..

That's basically all true, except a Shadow/Sin does everything we do above but they do it better. It also depends on opposing players and teams being bad and not knowing a) when to crack CC, and b) how to guard side nodes. That narrow margin of victory you described is all in gear and skill. In straight up pugs with a solo guy on the side node, the Scrappers shines...but not much more than a Shadow/Sin would in the exact same position. Indeed, some of those things you described (throwing a Shiv down to keep a guy out of a major fight) can be done by ANY class, let alone a Shadow/Sin.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love this class and I have been playing it for a year now. All of the tactics you described are spot on, except for the fact that Shadows/Sins can basically do them better than we can. The sole exception to this is burst over the first 10 seconds of a fight. Scrapper just hit so hard in those first 10 seconds. But past that, the class just falls apart a bit.

Edited January 12, 2013 by ktkenshinx

[Raansu]

3 second knockdown was broken and unfair. Stun bubbles are only broken in the literal sense that they fill up resolve incorrectly, and they are only unfair in the sense that you can click to remove them.

 

There is nothing broken or unfair about it. The class has practically zero survivability when they come out of cloak and their burst opener is pretty laughable. I can close my eyes and burst down 5 people with one button and kill one of them in one to two GCD's on my sentinel but a scrapper scoundrel (who's supposed to have high burst) has to pray to the heavens for a good crit and hopefully burn them down fast enough before the enemy turns around and eats them alive.

 

Scrappers need a buff. And to be honest they were perfectly fine back in the day. The thing that made them over the top (just like every other class) was stacking adrenals and relics and blasting lowbies as a level 50. Those are gone now. Scrappers need to be brought back to how they once were.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Raansu

[foxmob]

Well played concealment operatives are kings solo.

the only ppl who lose nodes to a solo concealment op are ppl who don't know how to kite. hypergate aside.

 

 

Wrong again. A properly played Powertech will always win. There is no variation of creeping terror, knockback, sprint, Whirlwind, slow and Stun that you can give me that I wont have an answer to as a powertech. Only the baddies loose to the madness sorcerer. Its easy to tell who the baddies are by when they use their grapple or carbonize.

 

Most overly optimized powertech's often don't have to fight an extended fight with a sorcerer due to the sheer faceroll-ness of their rotation. In the cases they do, the lack of skill is pretty visible.

if you're dying to equally geared PTs, then you're trapped in a box (it can happen in a couple wz's) or you're trying to face tank them. you have to pick your fights. you don't take a PT head on. your rape him while he's fighting another melee or trying to deal with another ranged unit. madness dps is good. know your role. you're mobile and have decent cc.

 

 

 

So you're trying to turn this conversation into Commando versus Sorcerer healers? Seriously, look at the thread title. Nobody disputes commando's are in a worse place than sorcerers. But comparing one underpowered class to another and saying its overpowered is beyond stupid in terms of an argument.

 

Furthermore, it seems you haven't played a sage judging by your comments. The moment a sage healer is rooted, they can loose 1/2 of their health in 2 GCDs, or 3/4th of their health under focus fire. All it takes is a Carnage marauder to use deadly throw, or a warrior to leap, or a powertech to pull, or a sniper to legshot, etc.

 

You don't seem to understand that line-of-sighting only works against the terribad players. The decent ones aren't going to let themselves be LOS'ed without being stunned/rooted. This is the function of the bubble-stun.

no. I don't play a sage. three of the best healers on my server are sages. sages put up monster numbers in every wz. wz's are littered with sage healers. stop whining about sage healing. seriously. you are fine. ops are a little too hard to kill, but even they are manageable. there are 3 heal classes. you want to cry and complain cuz your practical ceiling isn't as good as the BEST heal class, but you don't want to look at the fact that you're head and shoulders better off than the third heal class? dude. sage healing is fine. it's where it should be. you heal in rated, you're gonna get raped unless your team protects you. that's a fact of life as a healer. ops are obscenely mobile. that doesn't mean you should be too.

 

 

 

I think before you have the ability to call something over-powered or not needing buffs you need to play that class. I can say smash is overtuned having both a Rage/Unstoppable specced Juggernaught, and Rage specced marauder.

 

Clearly you don't play a healer sorcerer either. Otherwise you would've realize the only reason you can LOS good players is by having the bubble-CC.

again, you're smoking something sweet, cuz most healers ARE sage healers, and they do excellent numbers, even in rated - my rated team was carried by a sage healer (I'd know, I was his commando counterpart), and there was only one team that beat us. No. I don't need to play the class to see this.

 

no. I don't play madness. I've encountered a couple good madness sorcs, and they do monster dmg - admittedly in reg. rated is and always will be stocked with fotm classes. on that, I'll have to take your word.

 

 

You either haven't been around since the beginning, didn't PvP until 1.1.2 hit, or are purposely being ignorant to nerf the one aspect you can't seem to solve. The bubble-CC has always been used offensively when class balance is out of whack. The sorcerer is the undisputedly the squishiest class in game. When you see the bubble-CC come out in full force, you know they're getting hit far too hard in comparison to their effectiveness at performing their jobs.

 

The scale and popularity of bubble-CC is the litmus test of Bad Class Balance. It always has been since the release of this game.

now you're just comparing epeens and nitpicking semantics. it's an issue *now.* it wasn't an issue since late december/early january *a year ago.* and the fact that it's now a stun is significant. it's no longer simply an escape mechanism. it doesn't break on dmg. that's huge. like every other stun in the game, it thus becomes more than just an interrupt or an opportunity to escape. it's a means of attacking in a way that it wasn't before. are you happy now with my wording? I'll have my lawyer go over it in the morning for you. he charges extra for night calls.

Edited January 13, 2013 by foxmob

[PloGreen]

the only ppl who lose nodes to a solo concealment op are ppl who don't know how to kite. hypergate aside.

 

Gunslingers and snipers have a hard time vs scrappers/ops.

 

 

if you're dying to equally geared PTs, then you're trapped in a box (it can happen in a couple wz's) or you're trying to face tank them. you have to pick your fights. you don't take a PT head on. your rape him while he's fighting another melee or trying to deal with another ranged unit. madness dps is good. know your role. you're mobile and have decent cc.

 

[A balance sage can kill any class if they are not actually fighting them so not sure what you are getting at here. Pts eat balance sages for breakfast, simply because you cannot kite them, or cleanse their dots. They will win this 90 percent of the time in equal gear, and if they are competent so not sure what you are saying here at all. Basically you are wrong.

 

 

 

no. I don't play a sage. three of the best healers on my server are sages. sages put up monster numbers in every wz. wz's are littered with sage healers. stop whining about sage healing. seriously. you are fine. ops are a little too hard to kill, but even they are manageable. there are 3 heal classes. you want to cry and complain cuz your practical ceiling isn't as good as the BEST heal class, but you don't want to look at the fact that you're head and shoulders better off than the third heal class? dude. sage healing is fine. it's where it should be. you heal in rated, you're gonna get raped unless your team protects you. that's a fact of life as a healer. ops are obscenely mobile. that doesn't mean you should be too.

 

So you don't play a sage? Then how would you know about balance sages eating pts for breakfast (they don't). As for the point about healing sages, most are using bubble stun because they are so squishy in rateds, and need the extra utility.

 

again, you're smoking something sweet, cuz most healers ARE sage healers, and they do excellent numbers, even in rated - my rated team was carried by a sage healer (I'd know, I was his commando counterpart), and there was only one team that beat us. No. I don't need to play the class to see this.

 

Without a doubt the best healers in the game are OPs healers not sages, I would take an OP healer over a sage healer every time. Sage healers are very good because they offer utility other healers cannot, but that utility is much better with bubble stun, because it improves their survival and their team mates. Plus the bubble can be applied much much faster than a dps bubble stun. Commandos, they need a buff to, dont think anyone is arguing against that really.

 

no. I don't play madness. I've encountered a couple good madness sorcs, and they do monster dmg - admittedly in reg. rated is and always will be stocked with fotm classes. on that, I'll have to take your word.

 

If you play it you might gain a more well-rounded perspective.

 

 

now you're just comparing epeens and nitpicking semantics. it's an issue *now.* it wasn't an issue since late december/early january *a year ago.* and the fact that it's now a stun is significant. it's no longer simply an escape mechanism. it doesn't break on dmg. that's huge. like every other stun in the game, it thus becomes more than just an interrupt or an opportunity to escape. it's a means of attacking in a way that it wasn't before. are you happy now with my wording? I'll have my lawyer go over it in the morning for you. he charges extra for night calls.

 

I agree with this part. Bubble stun needs to be addresssed, as does smash. Dps sages need a buff, not a complete nerf. No one was complaning about sages pre 1.4 except sages. Everyone else was happy with free kills. l2p was bandied about alot at sages who were trying to bring this to the devs attention, this went on for months. So basically as OP as bubble stunning has become, try actually understanding what it is like to be a sage since 1.2. I admit it needs nerfing but sages will need something so they get to do rateds. I dont agree that that bubble stun should be a mezz though. Not with all aoe around.

 

Bioware made some changes but sages are still not viable without bubble in a rated environment and are the most unforgiving class except commandos for new players.

 

Oh and I dont use bubble stun btw. I play balance/madness.

Edited January 13, 2013 by PloGreen

[darthgamer]

I agree with this part. Bubble stun needs to be addresssed, as does smash. Dps sages need a buff, not a complete nerf. No one was complaning about sages pre 1.4 except sages. Everyone else was happy with free kills. l2p was bandied about alot at sages who were trying to bring this to the devs attention, this went on for months. So basically as OP as bubble stunning has become, try actually understanding what it is like to be a sage since 1.2. I admit it needs nerfing but sages will need something so they get to do rateds.

 

Bioware made some changes but sages are still not viable without bubble in a rated environment and are the most unforgiving class except commandos for new players.

 

Oh and I dont use bubble stun btw. I play balance/madness.

 

HERE HERE!!! I understand sages/sorcs needed to be tuned down but what they did was over kill id play my sorc ALOT more if I knew i didnt have to hybrid out to get into rateds

[underpantsgnomes]

Maybe make the bubble 40-50% bigger but limit it to one at a time?

[PloGreen]

Maybe make the bubble 40-50% bigger but limit it to one at a time?

 

Nah.

 

Nothing wrong with bubbling team mates. The problem is the stun works on team mates. Another problem is it can be triggered by declicking the debuff (been like that since the start), that needs to be fixed. Correct resolve? I dunno if its on the sage only i dont think it needs to be, but will see if that was the change implemented.

 

Make the stun caster only but a baseline talent, so all trees get it automatically but it cannot be applied on other team mates. That way dps arent speccing 12 points intto hybrid and hurting their damage output just for survival, and healing sages get the extra survival they need without gimping their heals. The trade off being bubble stun is not an abused mechanic anymore, just a survival mechanic.

 

To those that say that would be OP, I do not think so, the bubble can be popped at range, and sages are focused more often than not, dps or heals.

 

EDIT: Should point out this is not my idea, and I can't take credit for it (some clever sod suggested it), but it is such a good idea I think it needs to be reposted.

Edited January 13, 2013 by PloGreen