Stop complaining about stun bubble...

[DaedalusV]

Are you angry man? The stun-bubbler completely locked down our team. 1 wp bubbler, and some coordination on releasing manually the bubbles combined with basic focus fire = auto-win.

 

Tell me it ain't broken when 1 guy can cripple a whole team for the rest of his team to burn in AoE or focus-fire 1 by 1.

 

Anger leads to the dark side, so nope, I'm not angry.

 

I would suggest you read my previous post again. I am actually FOR a nerf to the bubblestun (No more manual clicking to get on-demand CC)

Your issue with the bubble spec would be fixed then.

 

 

Stun bubble is fine if it was only used by TK Sages/Lightning Sorcs (which is what BW tested probably since i bet they are not testing hybrids)

 

The hybrid builds are broken tho when you have no cooldown on the bubble and it costs less force so you can spam it is just meh wrong plus the ability to still heal decently so you dont take over a dps spot in your group

 

Both skills (Preservation and Kinetic Collapse or Efficacious Currents and Backlash) should be moved up in their skill trees to remove the possibility of the hybrid builds. For example both tier 5 instead of the current tier 3 and 4.

 

If you want to heal you wont have the stun but you'll still have the reduced cool down and resource. If you want to stun with it you wont be able to heal but will have to dps ( specially since to be able to afford bubbling other ppl you have to use attacks to trigger Effusion) plus the 5 sec cooldown on the bubble will prevent you to bubble spam and guard more than 2-3 ppl

 

There are skills that can be moved down in both trees without breaking anythng else.

 

Give me incentive to play a full spec healer and I'll respec right away. I don't want to run with bubblestun to be a useful healer, moving talents around will NOT give full spec sage/sorcs more viability.

 

Give sages/sorcs the stun bubble as a baseline ability and make it self-only (bubbles can still be put on others, just no stun) = a fair trade

Make it stun on self-cast only = WAY too big a nerf (we use 17 points in a dps spec to get this talent)

so stun on self-cast as a baseline ability would be a decent compromise. (most whiners say that stunbubble is needed for sage/sorc survivability, so wth make us spend talent points for something we all need?)

putting the talent in tier 1 or 2 would alse be a fair deal (if it was self-cast only)

 

Rethinking the AoE heal would also be a nice QoL change for pvp. Sage/sorc survivability = kiting/CC, Having a stationary AoE heal as the 31 point ability = counterintuitive.

[DaedalusV]

So you're ok with the stun giving half the resolve that it's supposed to?

 

(In before "but it's not on-demand." Then why didn't it give 150 resolve when it was a mez?)

 

Yes I am (IF the manual triggering gets fixed)

 

Before resolve change you could whitebar yourself by breaking 4 bubbles with a smash (3x300 + 600 = 1500 resolve)

After resolve change you recieve 300 resolve no matter how many bubbles you pop on a smash.

 

The true issue is NOT bubbles. The true issue is how resolve works now.

[Siorac]

Then ask for marauder CC to be toned down

 

Of all the things to complain about Marauders, you picked their effing CC as number one? Awe + Stasis, that's it, neither is a hard stun in the manner of Electrocute/Cryo Grenade/Dirty Kick etc.

 

I usually like your posts when you're not over the top about the deficiencies of Sorcerers but complaining about Marauders's CC is stretching reality. Complain about their defensive cooldowns and their retarded stealth but CC?

[fungihoujo]

Of all the things to complain about Marauders, you picked their effing CC as number one? Awe + Stasis, that's it, neither is a hard stun in the manner of Electrocute/Cryo Grenade/Dirty Kick etc.

 

I usually like your posts when you're not over the top about the deficiencies of Sorcerers but complaining about Marauders's CC is stretching reality. Complain about their defensive cooldowns and their retarded stealth but CC?

 

Because they have all of those things, plus burst.

 

Also- baseline sorcs vs baseline mara.

Mara- 15 second uncounterable leap with root through resolve

Sorc- no root, 20 second force speed which can be countered by roots

 

Mara- baseline perma snare

Sorc- snare has half the duration of its CD

 

Mara- baseline aoe instant mez

Sorc- 2 second cast single target mez

 

Mara- 3 second stun, channeled but at 1300 expertise I've had it tick for 1.5k (with crits, that's over 5k damage)

Sorc- 4 second stun, not channeled, considerably less damage

 

Sorc- short range, conal KB with the least actual push of all the KBs in the game

 

 

Going deep into lightning can get you root on the KB and a stun on the bubble (which people are trying to get removed)- the bubble sometimes hits targets, sometimes it gets popped, sometimes it's used on someone who's CC immune- stun bubble is great, but, it's not as reliable as an activated stun, which is why it doesn't give resolve like an activated stun. Also- unviable RWZ spec.

 

Marauder carnage- on top of the speed buffs which are great for countering CC/gap wideners.

- 12 sec CD 3 sec root, 15 sec CD 3 sec root, 27 sec CD 3 sec root. That's up to 9 seconds of root, through resolve, in a row- up to 36 seconds of root per minute, aka, over 50% of the time you can be rooting someone, through resolve.

 

That's as much if not more of a problem than the 7k smashes- and ravage can easily do well over 10k damage alone.

 

So yes- mara do have extremely good CC, and any mara saying they don't clearly doesn't know how to play their class.

 

So again- I'm not going to support getting a class that relies entirely on their CC to survive due to lack of defensives, and kite/kill due to lack of good burst, and is so easy to shut down because everything has a cast, or is purgable, and you have to stand still half the time- getting their one ticket into RWZ (group utility) nerfed out of the game... while a class that has three great specs, top damage, great healer killing abilities, top defensives, great mobility and great CC isn't even being looked at for their ability to keep someone rooted regardless of white bar over 50% of the time- is the one doing the most whining to try to get the bubble nerfed.

 

People see a problem- too much CC- and the only solution they want is for other classes to be nerfed and their own to be left alone even when it contributes as much or more to the problem.

[fungihoujo]

My main is a full min/maxed Deception Assassin, I eat Mauraders for lunch so I have no reason to complain about them rolling their faces across the keyboard lolsmashing while they're force slowed to death.

 

What I am tired of though is 1/2 the warzone holding their eyes blinded by lolzsTunz. Nothing wrong with Sorcs having the stun bubs, you guys need it to help survivability because I can beat you down too but the rest of your team doesn't need stun bubbles.

 

The cost for being a joke in pvp for damage and- as you likely know- being a free kill for a sin and many other classes is- and I am quoting what mara, juggs, PTs and sins have all been telling us for the past 8 months- "Sorcs are supposed to suck because you're a group utility class".

 

Well, now we have group utility- and suddenly there's a big problem with that?

 

It's the same thing you people are constantly saying. "Yes, sorcs aren't so great 1v1, but that doesn't mean they should be good for a team."

 

A 3 second stun doesn't help us survive all that much- because in the end we have no defensives, the worst mititgation in the game, our escape is the easiest escape to counter and every class has multiple abilities that can do so, no CC breaks and only a root break if you're a healer, huge reliance on dots while a chunk of our CC breaks on dots, we don't even have a radial KB or a long range stun anymore.

 

With a team though- that stun helps cap doors, helps herd players into a cluster for aoe, and I can use bubbled allies as a stun on those marauders chain rooting/leaping me to survive a little longer- the stun bubble on team mates is our best survivability, so anyone saying removing it isn't going to effect sorc survivability has never played a sorc and has absolutely no clue what they're talking about.

[LarryRow]

Because they have all of those things, plus burst.

 

Also- baseline sorcs vs baseline mara.

 

Dude it's pointless to compare baseline, without looking at what's available to spec. Root/snare-removing force speed is really potent. Knockback + root is really potent, esp against Marauders.

 

I had to lol at your inane list anyway. "Uncounterable" leap? Maybe for Juggs, but you can knockback a Marauder before they even land. Marauder snare is melee range, yours is 10m. You can spec for instant Whirlwind, and either way it's 2 sec longer (same as cap times). You stun less damage because you have 2 gcds to attack afterward (not channeled). These are important details conveniently left out.

 

Also, love how third tier is "deep in the lightning tree." Like saying 29 point defense Guardians go "deep" in Vigilance for Unremitting.

 

Marauder carnage- on top of the speed buffs which are great for countering CC/gap wideners.

- 12 sec CD 3 sec root, 15 sec CD 3 sec root, 27 sec CD 3 sec root. That's up to 9 seconds of root, through resolve, in a row- up to 36 seconds of root per minute, aka, over 50% of the time you can be rooting someone, through resolve.

 

So yes- mara do have extremely good CC, and any mara saying they don't clearly doesn't know how to play their class.

 

You hate Carnage. We get it. One spec with a lot of roots and insanely predictable burst. But no hard stun. No knockback or pull.

 

In other words, a L2P issue.

[LarryRow]

Before resolve change you could whitebar yourself by breaking 4 bubbles with a smash (3x300 + 600 = 1500 resolve)

After resolve change you recieve 300 resolve no matter how many bubbles you pop on a smash.

 

The true issue is NOT bubbles. The true issue is how resolve works now.

 

It sounds like the true issue is people standing in clumps and/or sorcs wanting to hand out bubbles to their whole team without having to worry about consequences.

[Kahndraga]

They need to take out stuns and redo the whole thing. Not every class needs a stun. make so only some advance classes get them, and you actually have to spec into them. The stuns in this game are killing pvp. I spend on average 45% of the time stunned in a WZ and the other time chasing the sorc that is healing or the op healer.

Its simple less stun abilities across the board.

[TDRedmage]

Dear people who think I'm OP,

 

I'm not OP because this is the only way I can play. Without the thing making me OP I'll be horrible and useless. Please BW, don't make me horrible and useless.

 

Signed,

 

OP

[zaknaphein]

 

 

All i can say about this thread....seriously...learn to use paragraphs..

[Devinia-Hex]

Even if the OP's comment was a block of text he made good points.

 

There is a 17 second debuff before Bubble can be placed on a target for a second time anyone in the game can be killed in 17 seconds a 3 second stun vs a 17 second cooldwon the bubble itself only absorbs about 3500 damage which if your getting hit by any class which can do 5k in a single hit (everyone but sorc and sages go figure) then this is very little protection.

 

Where it can become semi annoying is if you a cluster of melee who are not focusing a healer and are just playing patty cake with other melee in a large group. This allows a healer to sit back and bubble his melee and when the stuns go off they are stunning all around them if they have the resolve to allow it.

 

Other abilities resolve is working correctly so the only true way for you to be stunned more then three times by is by not having any other cc placed on you and being in a 3 meter range of the person with the bubble for an extended period of time. If this is you, you are either bad and are keyboard turning your way to victory or you think that if you use smash enough eventually you'll kill something.

 

The stun offers a fair amount of resolve and can only be used on a target 3 times at most before they are full on resolve this means you didn't have the Horsepower to score a kill in 51 seconds on a light armor healer. You should re-roll if this is the case.

[darthgamer]

Okay, let's say they do that. Then without anything to compensate for the lost ability to share that with others, the Sorcerer has no more use in PvP except as a pure spec healer. Might as well delete the Lightning & Madness trees. Better yet, just do away with the Sorcerer and Sage if they do not give these ACs something that makes them viable in 31+ builds in these skill trees. Otherwise, they are useless.

 

Sorry man Madness is fine in pvp not great but still gets the job done I know have two of them.

[LanceCorporalDan]

Heh, "only" three times before resolve is full. 3x3500=10500 protection on a single target.

[Domatron]

People have been saying the same thing about marauder root locks through resolve, and facing the absurd defensives and damage of marauders in general for months now- not fun to face a class doing double your burst damage, who isn't taking any damage, jumping all over, stealthing, moving extra fast, etc... and getting some of the top group utility on top of having so much damage and mitigation.

 

Marauders have been the biggest fun suckers in the game since 1.2- nobody likes taking two steps, being leap smashed, another step, leap root ravage root throw executed, etc... either.

 

Basically all you're saying is- what makes the game unfun for melee classes is a huge issue that BW needs to address right now- but what has been making the game unfun for certain classes for well over half a year still isn't something that needs to be addressed.

 

I love when people whine about maras to defend bubble stun while not realizing that a bubble stun will give a marauder an on demand hard stun. I can't tell you how many times I've set up a gore+ravage or a smash by clicking off the bubble first. Your stun bubbles are OP in the current form as it gives your whole team an extra on demand 4 sec hard stun that gives 1/2 resolve, end of story.

[Riggz]

Bubble stun is op

 

 

As a healer I hate it. Coordinated (Vent/TS) teams use the strategy called car bomber on enemy healers (me). They bubble themselves up, sprint in, and click it off and stun me. When it wears off 2nd sorc does it again. I have maybe, maybe half resolve so a 3rd stun finishes me off. That's 10 seconds of being Hard Stunned. Then I'm dead. I spend my entire match perma stunned and its ********

 

 

The bubble was designed for squishy lighting sorcs to have some defensive ability. Not to be spammed and clicked off by the entire group.

 

This spec is stupid, dumb and op.

 

 

Whatever you say doesn't matter because bioware will at least fix the resolve on it. So yeah, broken op spec is broken

[Devinia-Hex]

Sorcs as many non sorcs always like to turn a deaf ear to have been lacking A LOT since 1.2. People still don't understand the Sorc themselves is still squishy and can be killed rather easy. If you allow one person to beat you by just tossing out bubbles all day while doing their nails it's likey your in a group of randoms.

 

The spec has low crit value and bad bonus healing add to the fact that it is on a 17 second cooldown with a 2 piece Mystic set the class needs something it has been over looked since it was nerfed back in 1.2.

 

The Bubble stun being removed as a castable buff on other players doesn't bother me in the least if they adjust the resolve on the self bubble it will more or less be useless and there will be no reason to spec into it.

[Chlomamf]

Hello, my main is a sorcerer

 

Stop right there, you no longer have the right to say nothing is wrong with Stun Bubble.

[Haitou]

for those who thinks that stun buble is not a game-breaking thing, just watch this video and ask yourself honestly whats wrong in this video?

 

 

Edited January 12, 2013 by Haitou

[fungihoujo]

Stop right there, you no longer have the right to say nothing is wrong with Stun Bubble.

 

And you and everyone else whining about bubbles in this thread no longer have the right to say nothing is wrong with sorcs without stun bubble.

[Skylancewalker]

lol a sorc stop complaining about stun bubble thread is kinda funny for one...and yes it is op considering u can put it on everyone on ur team and stun all the other players all the time preventing damage when it barely effects the person getting stunned resolve. Im a dps sage and I can tell you its OP but keep it goin bioware i love killin all these noobs

[fungihoujo]

Dude it's pointless to compare baseline, without looking at what's available to spec. Root/snare-removing force speed is really potent. Knockback + root is really potent, esp against Marauders.

 

I had to lol at your inane list anyway. "Uncounterable" leap? Maybe for Juggs, but you can knockback a Marauder before they even land. Marauder snare is melee range, yours is 10m. You can spec for instant Whirlwind, and either way it's 2 sec longer (same as cap times). You stun less damage because you have 2 gcds to attack afterward (not channeled). These are important details conveniently left out.

 

Also, love how third tier is "deep in the lightning tree." Like saying 29 point defense Guardians go "deep" in Vigilance for Unremitting.

 

 

 

You hate Carnage. We get it. One spec with a lot of roots and insanely predictable burst. But no hard stun. No knockback or pull.

 

In other words, a L2P issue.

 

You hate stun bubbles, we get it, one ability in a class with poor burst and lots of cast, easy to interrupt attacks, with no defensives, the worst mitigation in the game and only one ability in any spec that grants 2 seconds of root immunity.

 

In other words, your whining for stun bubbles to be nerfed is a l2p issue.

[Sleprock]

Nerfing bubble will have to go hand in hand with Smash. If one or the other getting nerf batted alone, there will be glorious array of outrage from one of the two camps.

[ktkenshinx]

You hate stun bubbles, we get it, one ability in a class with poor burst and lots of cast, easy to interrupt attacks, with no defensives, the worst mitigation in the game and only one ability in any spec that grants 2 seconds of root immunity.

 

In other words, your whining for stun bubbles to be nerfed is a l2p issue.

I don't get it. Why can't we all just agree that there are just two things that need to be nerfed about stun bubbles.

 

1) Stun Bubbles fill up the right amount of resolve

2) You can't remove stun bubbles from yourself with a right click.

 

These changes are just so elementary. They are just the right thing to do, both mechanically and from a balance perspective. I can't even imagine a good argument against these two changes.

 

EDIT: The only other changes that we COULD debate are the following

1) Should we move the spec up the tree to discourage hybrids? (Maybe, maybe not)

2) Should we increase the CD of shield? (Definitely not, IMO)

3) Should we make bubbles pop only when cast on self? (Maybe, maybe not)

 

These are all reasonable things to argue about. Talking about the wholesale REMOVAL of bubble, however, is ridiculous. Sorcs/Sages need it.

Edited January 12, 2013 by ktkenshinx

[Chimerako]

As long as the buff stays on smash I say leave the bubbles as is. I play both classes and to be honest it's really hard to get away from a melee class above lvl 40 no matter what spec you are. Normally if I'm in good form I can get multiple bubbles up during the same fight and I can be really hard to kill. Which is great considering I play a tele sage on one of my alts which nobody ever really plays in PVP. The class is really really really hard to play and is considered unplayable and would be just...beyond words without that ability. Also its fun to cast a bubble on a teammate and ruin a smashers fun.

 

I'll admit I've been in WZ with two or three hybrids and it was just completely annoying. But then again three of a lot of specs can be Annoying. Try going near a node with three eng snipers spamming that damn probe everywhere. Oh yeah nerf mercs and ops btw.

[JidaiDerriphan]

Stop right there, you no longer have the right to say nothing is wrong with Stun Bubble.

 

I'm not stun bubble specd and I could wipe the floor with you with any of my 50s.