All participants were willing and learned quite a bit. Any questions they had on their class or pvp in general were answered, we did nothing but help other players. The fact is we currently do more to promote PvP than BioWare does. I think there is a stark contrast between doing something to help the community and doing something to win a warzone. Entitlement is not our motivation. Not being at a disadvantage because we rolled fresh while others have been here since launch, coupled with finding players who don't pvp because they can't match the gear of people who also engaged in kickball matches (who currently criticize us) and have full conqueror sets 2 weeks after the expansion launched is (run on sentence, sorry). We are simultaneously being criticized for not participating in ranked and taking steps to gear up faster so that we can. We do not like the idea of being at any disadvantage, however small, and being criticized or judged for the outcome of the match. If both parties are on equal terms in regards to gear and composition, then the outcome could only be because of player skill and teamwork. This is the match we want. Not gear v gear or comp v comp. When it happens we want no question as to why. I would argue it's moderate. Have you added up the stats of gear sets and compared the totals? Even if it's minimal, it exists. And yes, I've killed my fair share of both those guilds. However the "every advantage" argument applies this time as well. Why can't I have the advantages my opponent has before facing them? Then the fault lies with them for exploiting, not with us for refusing to put up with it. As stated by other Watchmen we DO NOT throw this accusation around lightly. It's starting to sound as if we accuse anyone of cheating, and that's far from the truth, very far. And with that I have said all there really is to say and I will no longer reply to any posts regarding these issues. If you wish to engage me then you missed your window. This thread has a truly excellent intention and it is unfair to the server to derail it with drama. If anyone has other questions or comments you may contact me directly.

I was not suggesting matches are won by 1v1s. The team is a sum total of it's members, meaning a fully conq team still has a distinct advantage over a fully partisan team, or a half conq/half part team. Slice it however you like. And again, the argument was for opponents of equal skill. If both teams play well as a team then it will come down to gear. Not to mention the fact that the argument is not solely about gear, but also composition. We have recruited new members and are still learning each other. Because of this we probably do not function as well as a team than the guilds we would be up against. This takes time and practice. Thank you for your patience and understanding. We have stopped corner caps and invisicaps many times. That doesn't make it ok. The fact is if they are willing to cheat we don't know how far that extends. Having to factor in enemy cheats - known and unknown - is not how we play the game. We have the right to make that choice, just as you have the right not to respect it, just as we have the right not to care what you think.

I wanted to take the time to respond to this. When we arrived here we heard stories of a few guilds dominating pvp and many players not participating because of it. PvP in SWTOR, ranked and regs, requires max participation to be much fun. So the intention was to gear ourselves and others to encourage them to participate in pvp on this server. I find the ire this draws interesting because according to some of the accounts we've heard, this is exactly how some of you geared up. However, whether or not this is true is completely irrelevant to the point. Our intention was and still is to help the server as a whole as well as ourselves because as previously stated - pvp thrives on max participation. It was very disappointing when we saw members of Guerilla /spitting and trash talking us in general when they tried to queue against us, knowing we were at the time fresh 55s and thus undergeared. This paints the picture of people who don't care about a healthy pvp environment or healthy competition. It's equally disappointing to hear disapproval of something that only helps the community as a whole while simultaneously defending exploits and glitches - something that discourages honest players from participating in pvp. In regards to "limp wristed" excuse of gearing up, and how competitive partisan gear is. I'm sorry but we don't view it this way. This is a game of stats. If two players of equal skill face off, one in partisan the other in conqueror, the conq will win every time. Even a 10 point stat difference is an advantage, any pvp guild worth it's salt knows that. Please don't tell us the stat gap is too small to matter. We know better and so do you. Why people don't accept a guild trying to get equal footing before facing them in ranked is very indicative of the level of sportsmanship these guilds have. Both /stuck and corner capping are not how the game was intended to be played. When an objective is being capped there is supposed to be a visual indicator of it. You are not supposed to be able to kill yourself to get to an objective faster. By this logic, I should be okay with having my home ransacked by burglars since I'm capable of ransacking other people's homes. But no, it does not make you a better team. A better team would be able to capture an objective without resorting to these tactics. The bottom line is this. The Watchmen reserve the right to a fair game. This means two things: First, we will not do ranked until we are on equal terms with enemy teams both gear wise and composition wise. We are working hard but currently we are not, so you'll just have to wait. Second, we will not play against any persons who are known to engage in exploits or glitches. If anyone doesn't like that then that's their problem. Finally, this is meant to be a thread to call out other players who are doing well. So in the spirit of returning this thread to it's intended purpose I'd like to give a shout out to Letho (I hope that's correct spelling) - you are one tough SOB to kill. Also Scheukradeur (almost certain I butchered that, I'll edit that if someone corrects me) - you are an excellent sniper and throw up a ton of damage whenever I see you.

Bolster is messed up? THANKS OBAMA!

Milly's mental process- 1. Come to a discussion thread about how to make pvp better for your faction. 2. Refute someone's claims about min/maxing while giving no supporting evidence. 3. When given detailed explanation to the contrary, use hyperbole and strawman arguments to refute the other person's claims - again giving no supporting evidence. 4. When confronted about my horrible arguments, troll. 5. Troll 6. Troll 7. Log in to SWTOR and lose more warzones. 8. Log back into forums and troll. Your faction is filled with people like this. That in a nutshell is why you guys are losing.

Something about goons? Sounds pretty retarded.

Cool story bro.

Yup, willfully.

If that's all you gathered from that, then your assessment probably includes yourself. This is exactly the problem. Willful ignorance.

This. I have no idea what runs through these people's heads. They completely fail to care about objectives to the point you almost wonder if they've stopped caring and only play for kills. I could understand if they're new to the game, but people have been playing like this for a year now. Sounds good I haven't done ranked in a while. What happens when an organized team shows up?

Well what else is there to do? Ranked is dead and imps can't get their sh*t together...

Everyone always talks about this "sweetspot" and never puts up any evidence to back it up... Fellow guidie said it best so I'll just copy and paste: "Anecdotal evidence gets you nowhere in these discussions. "Sweet spots" and so on don't exist unless there's a real dropoff above that, which isn't true for expertise. http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp45/Antimony_photo/2500RatingBenefit.png The curves don't magically drop off above 1250, they don't even drop off at unattainable numbers. I've run the numbers, and the long and short of it is this: If you want to hit the largest possible numbers on someone ELSE in low expertise gear, wear ~1100 expertise yourself. You'll get the most damage output this way, by a small margin (an ~1100 expertise player hits another ~1100 expertise player harder than a ~1400 expertise player hits an ~1100 expertise player). The difference comes in when you're fighting ~1100 expertise vs. ~1400 expertise. The 1400 expertise person will ALWAYS hit the 1100 expertise person harder than the 1100 expertise person will hit back, 100% guaranteed. The 1100 expertise person will have slightly more health and slightly lower mitigation, and slightly more effective health. This is where it gets interesting, because in an actual 1v1 between these two characters the 1100 expertise player would win due to the HP being a bigger boost than the mitigation in EHP, if zero healing occurs during the fight (also assuming zero damage multipliers from abilities, which isn't ever true and actually swings the fight in favor of the high expertise player in pretty much every imaginable situation). If a healer is involved or the players can heal themselves, the mitigation quickly overtakes the max HP in terms of EHP for the fight (the number is below 1000 total healing done). An exaggerated example would be two DPS's hammering on each other with one healer healing each one. The higher expertise DPS would win in this scenario (it would take forever) because his EHP with healing factored in is higher. Some classes do healing in terms of their max hp (as do medpacks), in which case having the slightly higher max HP would cause them to do more healing, but in none of the calcs I performed did the small amount of healing gained outweigh the mitigation in terms of EHP for the entire fight. TL;DR: Get max expertise if you want to win. If you want pretty numbers against scrubs, use PvE armorings and power crystals. " I suspect the reason people think they don't need max expertise is because they're fighting the ignorant masses who also don't max expertise.

Dear people who think I'm OP, I'm not OP because this is the only way I can play. Without the thing making me OP I'll be horrible and useless. Please BW, don't make me horrible and useless. Signed, OP

Probably nothing.

Bioware shouldn't do anything. It's up to the player to get better. Two things I notice: 1) Pubs form premades about 100x as often as imps. Something about socializing and getting organized in pvp that you imps just don't like - and you pay the price for it. 2) I'm sorry to say this because it's incredibly insulting, but it's also true - overall lack of skill/knowledge of the game. Don't get me wrong there are some good players on imp side, and bad players on pub side. But there's a noticeable lack of good dps, competent healers, and overall min/maxing of pvp stats. PVP STATS - Expertise is the most important stat for pvp, you need to get it as high as you can and THEN worry about your other stats. Seek knowledge about your class. Shin'arika has the most amazing shadow/sin videos out there, and there are plenty of guides to help you. All in all its a lack of organization, and a lack of seriousness about PvP.