Why the Vocal Minority Won PvP

[Corwingeorge]

The Combat is perfectly fluid. You just need to not be an idiot and play it like it's WoW.

 

This is a different game with different mechanics. People who play Call of Duty go over and try to play Battlefield 3 all the time, but they say it sucks because the combat speed isn't fast enough.

 

Try not sucking, it seriously helps.

 

the combat is slow and delayed. boring

[DarthOvertone]

Sayonara!

 

Ahhh...one less spot in the queue...

[Jargonaut]

The op may have a valuable opinion when it comes to instanced pvp but he clearly hasn't experienced open pvp in a game that was designed for it and provided incentives to do so.

[Zantul]

I have ZERO problems targetting and have ZERO lag.

 

Are U mad bro?

 

Cuz your complaining about nothing.

 

I dont have a pinch of lag ever.

[Zantul]

ROFL, I like how you equate wonky targetting, poor combat fluidity etc with "roleplayers" wanting a community (because only roleplayers care about a server community?) and try to imply that arena is the only option for PvP in MMORPGs.

 

You and your ilk are holding the industry back, one that is a big reason that there is no innovation in this genre anymore. You want the same garbage fed to you over and over, and when you get it you still don't like it.

 

Im glad you can see right through this cat..

 

Love that !!!

[-Fenix]

I am a hardcore PVPer.

 

I am against arenas. They're for e-sporters, not PVPers.

 

I am against cross-server BGs. Warzones are meaningless enough as it is.

 

I am for more open world PVP, and less restrictions and no carebear protections on PVP servers.

Edited December 20, 2011 by -Fenix

[Kalfear]

Except, of course, in a game like this with a well known IP hardcore Pvpers are expected to be the minority.

 

not just this game

 

If you give a player a option they will include PVP as a concentual activity

 

If you force a player to choose between PVE and PVP,

 

PVP losses out and is a massive minority every single time

 

Its why PVP MMOs never succeed!

 

So OP delusional thinking PVP is a non vocal majority!

 

If the vocal minority had won as he claims, PVP would be exactly how he wanted it.

 

And none of that means anything because we knew day one of '08 this was going to be a HEAVY PVE / RP centric game with OPTIONAL (as a side game) PVP. Anyone that convinced themselves from a few obvious PR Quotes this was anything but that was ignoring what was REALLY BEING SAID!

[Nitengalez]

I don't want to be stuck in another game where I sit in a city and wait for a queue to pop so I can fight.

 

agreed.

[ukikithemonkey]

I am a hardcore PVPer.

 

I am against arenas. They're for e-sporters, not PVPers.

 

I am against cross-server BGs. Warzones are meaningless enough as it is.

 

I am for more open world PVP, and less restrictions and no carebear protections on PVP servers.

 

I agree with this. Open world pvp is much more enjoyable then instanced. And it is funny how people who keep wanting arenas, keep forgetting that the WoW devs regret ever adding them into the game.

[Emaka]

Do people really think the Devs read posts here and take them into account ? I would put money down now that they have a 6 to 12 month road map already laid out for what will happen and where pvp will head. This may well include some sugestions mentioned in this thread, however I highly doubt that anyhting we type here will make the slightest difference. Would be lovely to think it might but until I see a dev post in this thread I stick by this.

[Kunda]

"I've been playing through early access and I'm now a higher level than new players, damn you RPers!"

 

Most disjointed argument I've read today, certainly.

[SWImara]

I'd prefer that this game was more like Shadowbane with laser rifles. Open world FFA PvP with real consequences. Is that guy right there bothering you? Blast him. It doesn't matter if he's in front of his trainer or his mother. It doesn't matter if he's Republic or Empire. But you better be ready for the inevitable fire fight. People that band together stop from killing each other not because artifical game mechanics won't let them, but because they believe in a common cause and are willing to group together long enough to achieve it. Low level characters join guilds for protection from gankers and for safe havens to pursue the class quests.

It always warms my heart when people talk about Shadowbane, at times I wonder if everyone who played it just quit MMOs. A FFA PvP server I would totally join, its honestly a different type of experience, I even went back to Age of Conan again for a while when the Blood and Glory server came out.

 

...and make the big open world fights have consequences. Let guilds create outposts for their faction on strategic hotpoints. Dynamically alter the game world based on player and guild actions.

The above is the essence of what the "world PvP crowd" has against battlegrounds and instances. Ultimately they are all hollow and pointless, just another flavor of grind. Granted it is very fun to grind players rather than random npcs, but at the end of the day you're just running in your hamster wheel for the PvP equivalent of your PvE raid gear.

 

Shadowbane had the right idea but poor technological implementation. Terrible lag, AFK macro levelling, and bugs that were abused by the player base when they were discovered to give an edge.

Lets not forget that the game was old, and however much I may have loved it not actually that good. It was a great game in theory, and crazy fun, but in practice it was really terribly flawed.

 

But the core idea of protectionist guilds that exist for REAL reasons, to protect their own and to spread their power across the game world with real and visible effects...that kind of game play isn't for everyone, but it certainly deserves at least a single server with a true open world, FFA PvP ruleset.

 

Give guilds the ability to plant trainers in strongholds that they can organically grow, giving guilds a reason to protect them, so they can train their members.

 

I know I'm just pining away and nostalgic for a game long gone, but everytime I come to a game and see coded game rules enforcing 'Realm vs. Realm' or instanced PvP it just makes me cringe. At the very least, a separate ruleset for 'FFA PvP' servers would make for a great experiment...

 

DJF

Sadly I doubt we're going to see this kind of game again, its definitely too niche for most, but it is good to read that I'm not the only one who'd love to see this again. Its for sure stings a little reading people talk about how non-arena/battleground isn't "real PvP" I can't help but wonder if they'd have even enjoyed the PvP I remember and loved.

[gallbi]

Please. if you want to push 7 buttons that have perfectly timed cooldowns in rotation, go back to WoW. Having a staggered cooldown system makes a person think and plan. It also opens the fight to unpredictable scenarios.

 

In WoW, if you miss a part of your rotation, your fight is lost... you are completely ****ed. Here, if you miss, you have an opportunity to recover. Take your thoughtless trolling elsewhere.

 

Sure at the s***ty ratings you played at. Have you seen arena streams? Probably not.

[Phaedrynn]

I'm guessing that you didn't play DAOC or Warhammer. DAOC is the perfect model for RvR/OPVP. Warhammer was close but suffered from server performance issues and keep design flaws. Both games offered a populated open PVP experience where ganking was less common than 8-mans or larger units operating over a vast area, usually in close coordination with allies.

 

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

 

This...

 

Arena/Battleground P-cough-v-cough-P is a joke. It's there for the impatient little kids who get a sense of personal self-worth (epeen) and only care about individual rewards. Cage fights without any meaning or consequence.

 

No thanks. Give me world PvP with actual, factional, consequences and rewards. I don't care about personal points/rating/shinypixels. However, give me world PvP where my entire faction can win/lose buffs, or access to zones or crafting materials and Im there.

[Repefe]

What was that ... 3 paragraphs of nothing ? Cross server BGs are bad bad idea. Level boosting works surprisingly well ... higher level players have an advantage, but you can still beat them. Arena even Blizzard admitted that it is flawed design. And lag ... what lag ? My client runs smoothly.

 

I feel a bit dumber after reading OP

[LordofDecay]

I am a hardcore PVPer.

 

I am against arenas. They're for e-sporters, not PVPers.

 

I am against cross-server BGs. Warzones are meaningless enough as it is.

 

I am for more open world PVP, and less restrictions and no carebear protections on PVP servers.

 

Exactly.

 

BG/WZ are crap and destroyed the PVP environment.

 

In the time being I hope Ilum is fixed. Damn planet was crap with anymore then 10 vs 10.

 

Looks like I will have to wait for PlanetSide 2 for actual meaningful open world PVP.

[TheBigBee]

 

If you force a player to choose between PVE and PVP,

 

PVP losses out and is a massive minority every single time

 

Its why PVP MMOs never succeed!

 

 

Ummm... Ultima Online? Dark Age of Camelot?

I dont recall who made DAoC (mythic??) but Ultima was Origin. SURPRISE!!!

[Draemos]

So you are the self appointed vocal majority huh? Sounds to me like your just making stuff up.

[Phaedrynn]

Ummm... Ultima Online? Dark Age of Camelot?

I dont recall who made DAoC (mythic??) but Ultima was Origin. SURPRISE!!!

 

DAoC = Mythic...who are now part of the Bioware team and involved in SWTOR.

 

You would think that might mean something, no?

[SWImara]

DAoC = Mythic...who are now part of the Bioware team and involved in SWTOR.

 

You would think that might mean something, no?

 

Yeah this is part of my hope for eventual quality additions to the PvP system. What exists now as a framework honestly isn't terrible so long as a great deal more is contributed.

[inseeisyou]

I like PVP the way it is.

 

It sounds like you are outraged you didn't get to backstab some level 1s on launch day.

[Tnice]

Yeah this is part of my hope for eventual quality additions to the PvP system. What exists now as a framework honestly isn't terrible so long as a great deal more is contributed.

 

That is the way I see PvP now. It is a framework and helps sith some PvP class balancing. Hopefully the Warhammer influence will prevail itself soon. Warhammer was a great idea but poorly implemented due to releasing too early. Hopefully they have the design in the works for meaningful PvP but wait to make it work this time.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Tnice

[Bdaw]

ROFL, I like how you equate wonky targetting, poor combat fluidity etc with "roleplayers" wanting a community (because only roleplayers care about a server community?) and try to imply that arena is the only option for PvP in MMORPGs.

 

You and your ilk are holding the industry back, one that is a big reason that there is no innovation in this genre anymore. You want the same garbage fed to you over and over, and when you get it you still don't like it.

 

He's not blaming the role players he's blaming the devs for catering to only one type of player when PvP is huge. I know most people don't care and this will probably get attacked, but go check out youtube. People don't make PvE videos (besides tutorials) because after you've seen a boss killed once, cool...that was fun it was exactly like that time I killed him already. Whereas PvP is always changing and therefore dominates youtube.

 

All I'm saying is give PvP the credit and attention it deserves. Clearly there is a massive fan base for PvP (I never saw anyone live streaming their guild running end game) I like watching and participating in PvP because it's different every time. Which is actually the only thing I disagree with the OP on. I believe world PvP deserves just as much work as staged PvP in WZ. Unfortunately it's a lot of work to balance out and make world pvp fun and I'm not even going to bother getting into the possibilites (there are posts for that) but I will ask BW to please give PvP and open world PvP the dedication it deserves. Otherwise this is going to end up like WoW with one entire faction of PvPers chilling in one city bored waiting for queues, and the other one sitting in their cities waiting for queues.

[Tremont]

Over my time in beta and now over launch, I think it's fair to say many people are disappointed in PvP. Huttball is the only one that pops because apparently no one rolls Republic. Targeting is difficult not to mention the new amounts of lag that now permeates throughout warzones. There are no brackets, so last night as a 38 I found myself fighting lvl 10s. PvP, which Bioware promised would be a viable end game, is looking more and more like space combat than anything associated with endgame.

 

So how did this happen? Well it's really, the dedicated, crazy fan base full of Roleplayers despised anything practical with PvP. They hated the idea of cross-server BGs, because that would ruin the sense of "community". They despise the idea of arena because then in some arbitrary situations there are nerfs to classes, so they can't role-play in Cantina's as well. They talk about world PvP as if it's the only type of PvP, and anyone who has ever played a serious MMO knows world PvP zones are empty, gank zones, no strategy, no fun, but hey, you're fighting for a cool Tower we can role-play in right?

 

The list could frankly go on and on, but many people, myself included, who have ever only really played MMOs for competitive fun PvP, are left disappointed, and wanting. My statement to BioWare, do what's best for business, not whats best for the vocal minority of forum children.

 

I was in Beta since last spring, and yes the PvP is not great, in fact its worse than other MMO's. This game was designed around the story of SWTOR and not designed to be a great PvP MMO, which explains the lack of warzones, objective based PvP areas and Arenas.

[EasymodeX]

Arena is a pretty ****** vehicle for PvP content.

 

That is all.