Master_Nate Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Don't even get me started on that... no matter how many times I try to explain that to people in game they insist on going to "delay" the cap... which is only helping the other team not only on the node and kills but also leaving our team short handed in mid. Giving the enemy team even more kills. Makes me want to kick a kitten. Straight out the gate people head mid and anticipate action for whatever reason....not helping secure our pylon....not even running interception so we can get OURS. People "fear" to be stuck left guarding the pylon since there are no objective points added for guarding yet. I'm assuming this is what is happening at times and I see most just head towards mid and wait. What I see in most matches is people think this game is purely a death match with no real objective to do other than secure a pylon. However, it seems like there are more things going on here that aren't fully explained as I see the score jump like crazy at times and even I'm wondering how that just happened. What I'm getting at is that I support a response to this thread in hopes that the PvP community as a whole better understands where the points come from and how to handle themselves when this map shows up in Q. Edited January 7, 2013 by Master_Nate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 What I'm getting at is that I support a response to this thread in hopes that the PvP community as a whole better understands where the points come from and how to handle themselves when this map shows up in Q. It would be nice... I expected at least a vague description in the holonet but I was embarrassed for them when I saw it wasn't even added at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanReagan Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 How do kills apply with both pylons controlled? Do kills in closer proximity to one pylon apply ONLY to that one? Say I own both pylons and get 100 kills at the east pylon and only 5 at the west. 8 seconds before detonation the east pylon is taken. How many points do I have at the end o that round? I don't think the kills are registered to a specific pylon. They are just multiplied by the round multiplier at the end of the round as long as you have one pylon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilas Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I don't think the kills are registered to a specific pylon. They are just multiplied by the round multiplier at the end of the round as long as you have one pylon. so if you control both, is the kill count essentially doubled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanReagan Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 so if you control both, is the kill count essentially doubled? I've never noticed it doubling if you have both pylons. I can't say for sure that it doesn't. THe score becomes so lopsided by just keeping them from scoring for an entire round, I don't think it would matter either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkiestj Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Don't even get me started on that... no matter how many times I try to explain that to people in game they insist on going to "delay" the cap... which is only helping the other team not only on the node and kills but also leaving our team short handed in mid. Giving the enemy team even more kills. Makes me want to kick a kitten. Exactly... so many variables that are left to assumptions. And one thing I can definitely say is not clear is how are kills added up? Is it in the same way that kills are added up on the scoreboard? Kind of hard to blame them when a student of the game such as yourself does not have full understanding of basic scoring scenarios (I blame Bioware, not you for this). Given the relative complexity of the kill scoring, a proper explanation should include a walk through of interesting scenarios (e.g. the ones brought up in this thread). Once we have a sticky that clearly enumerates the kill scoring then it will be time to kick a kitteh. Orb scoring and scoring kills when you hold 0 pylons at the end of a period seem pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkiestj Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 It is the number of killing blows that are applied to the team. not sure about bres's. Killing blows? Is that the same as opponent deaths? I.e. there is always exactly 1 killing blow per death? (in the time interval of interest)? TANGENT: I think this is how Voidstar ties are decided -- by deaths (killing blows?), not summing the "kills" column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlomamf Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Seriously, what's so confusing about it? It's just like all the other WZs, control a Node or both. The only differences are the lowered cap time, kills count to score and the orbs. Infact no screw it, people do need a guide as I constantly see people go over to the enemies Node at the match start. I'm like "dudes, two of you are not going to kill 4 people and cap a Node. Thanks for giving the enemy extra score." Unless ofcourse they manage to take 2 or 3 with them, then I guess it doesn't matter if they die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Seriously, what's so confusing about it? It's just like all the other WZs, control a Node or both. The only differences are the lowered cap time, kills count to score and the orbs. Infact no screw it, people do need a guide as I constantly see people go over to the enemies Node at the match start. I'm like "dudes, two of you are not going to kill 4 people and cap a Node. Thanks for giving the enemy extra score." Unless ofcourse they manage to take 2 or 3 with them, then I guess it doesn't matter if they die. What makes it different are the variables that come into play when kills are counted towards points. Like I said... most of us have a general understanding but it's clear that many players don't. And even those who do can't be 100% certain of how player kills work towards the score in certain situtations. Just as an example... can you say that you know 100% that kills that your team gets while no nodes are captured count or don't count towards the end of the round score as long as your team captures a node before the round is over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsakenKing Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) can you say that you know 100% that kills that your team gets while no nodes are captured count or don't count towards the end of the round score as long as your team captures a node before the round is over? I have an answer to this one. They do and here is how i found that out. the base score, x1, for capturing a pylon with no kills/orbs is 25 points. That was easy to figure out by capping our pylon quickly (before anyone was killed). During another match, the other team prevented us from capping our pylon till the 10 second mark. However, because we had killed so many of them while trying to capture, we ended up with a score of ~120 after the first round explosion. Obviously, we didnt have any orb scores because we didnt own a pylon until the end of the round. So, the points above 75 could only come from the kills. Also, I can tell you that kills count towards your score between the timer finishing and the actual explosion. aka, the time when node control is locked and those small balls are being filled in to countdown the large explosion. However, i couldnt tell you 100% what happens to kills between rounds. I think that they dont count at all towards the point system but that is just my semilogical guess. ill pay attention to that next time I play a match. Edited January 8, 2013 by ForsakenKing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 I have an answer to this one. They do and here is how i found that out. the base score, x1, for capturing a pylon with no kills/orbs is 25 points. That was easy to figure out by capping our pylon quickly (before anyone was killed). During another match, the other team prevented us from capping our pylon till the 10 second mark. However, because we had killed so many of them while trying to capture, we ended up with a score of ~120 after the first round explosion. Obviously, we didnt have any orb scores because we didnt own a pylon until the end of the round. So, the points above 75 could only come from the kills. Also, I can tell you that kills count towards your score between the timer finishing and the actual explosion. aka, the time when node control is locked and those small balls are being filled in to countdown the large explosion. However, i couldnt tell you 100% what happens to kills between rounds. I think that they dont count at all towards the point system but that is just my semilogical guess. ill pay attention to that next time I play a match. Thanks... while this is mostly what I expected to be true just from playing it so many times I tend to simplify things and pay more attention to what works and what doesn't and not the finer details. But the fact that it's near the end of page 4 and multiple posters and many views that it's clear that BW should have broke it down for us. This shouldn't be something that needs to be tested and dissected by players. Which is exactly the point of this thread. There is no reason that this and other factors shouldn't be available for players to read on this site. It's very clear from playing regs that most players do not understand even the basic concept of this map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaane Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Kills from Explosion are COUNTED towards your total during the next round. We found our the hard way, had an entire team suicide and next round when they capped a pylon they got a huge boost in score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsakenKing Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) This shouldn't be something that needs to be tested and dissected by players. Which is exactly the point of this thread. There is no reason that this and other factors shouldn't be available for players to read on this site. It's very clear from playing regs that most players do not understand even the basic concept of this map. I completely agree. It is really annoying not knowing how many points you get through kills/orbs/pylon and have to figure it all out yourself. It took way to many games to answer the questions I had about this WZ when BW could have easily summarized the point system to us. however, i doubt the devs will ever be specific about a WZ. I still remember debates about how HB/VS ties were decided. Another strange thing to add for the 5 people who read this post, the timer for capturing an orb is reduced by having Alacrity. just another annoying thing I had to figure out for myself lol. Kills from Explosion are COUNTED towards your total during the next round. We found our the hard way, had an entire team suicide and next round when they capped a pylon they got a huge boost in score. and thx for the info Edited January 8, 2013 by ForsakenKing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlomamf Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 What makes it different are the variables that come into play when kills are counted towards points. Like I said... most of us have a general understanding but it's clear that many players don't. And even those who do can't be 100% certain of how player kills work towards the score in certain situtations. Just as an example... can you say that you know 100% that kills that your team gets while no nodes are captured count or don't count towards the end of the round score as long as your team captures a node before the round is over? Well if both sides have a Node and they're tied, the one who gets the last kill will be infront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Another strange thing to add for the 5 people who read this post, the timer for capturing an orb is reduced by having Alacrity. just another annoying thing I had to figure out for myself lol. LOL... really? I wonder if that was intended.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsakenKing Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 LOL... really? I wonder if that was intended.... well, that is the .5-1 second question now isnt it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerensk Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 So does the multiplier affect the orbs like it does with the kills? Because I've noticed that playing to get orbs usually results in a loss, overall they don't have as much of an effect as killing. Because besides being vulnerable while picking them up and getting shot in the back you have to run them back to the node so your team is now weaker at mid. Better strategy seems to be to get your pylon then just camp at mid out-killing the enemy when they try to pickup the orbs. Just have 2 people defend and the other 6 kill at mid (ignore orbs while waiting for the enemy to come back). Or better yet stage a massive rush on the enemy pylon a minute before they both blow and capture both. That's always hard to come back from. And everybody has learned that the timer in the pylon diagram tells you when they'll blow right? I see so many people wasting time picking up orbs when the timer has only 10 seconds left; you'll never make it to the pylon before it blows. Just heal up and get ready to kill incoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 the strat for this wz is pretty simple. cap a node -> 2 defenders/rest to mid -> control mid and be good at rotating to defend if need be. if your node is getting overloaded, you dont need a heavy presence in mid, and vice versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 LOL... really? I wonder if that was intended.... I doubt it, but it is quite advantageous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhorlok Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Ancient Hypergate - worst designed warzone ever... period... no question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilas Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 LOL... really? I wonder if that was intended.... it's true, base cap time is 5.0 seconds. my sorc's alacrity brings it down to 4.7 or 4.6 pylon cap time is unchanged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-ToXiN Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Thanks... while this is mostly what I expected to be true just from playing it so many times I tend to simplify things and pay more attention to what works and what doesn't and not the finer details. But the fact that it's near the end of page 4 and multiple posters and many views that it's clear that BW should have broke it down for us. This shouldn't be something that needs to be tested and dissected by players. Which is exactly the point of this thread. There is no reason that this and other factors shouldn't be available for players to read on this site. It's very clear from playing regs that most players do not understand even the basic concept of this map. Yes yes yes. The info on how the WZ is scored should be presented officially and clearly, not left to players to figure out for themselves and guess and wonder. The basics are simple enough but its the little details that arent always obvious, and these can make a difference in games where it comes down to a couple points and can effect how you play in rateds. Yet another great example of BWs great communication. Did learn a few little things from this thread though, props for posting it Ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappadin Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Well there's 2 types of points, hard points and soft points. Hard points us your current score. Soft points are potential points. Pylons and kills are soft points that are converted into hard points when the pylons detonate. Kills are added to soft pointa throughout the game. Kills remain soft points until a pylon is capped and are awarded Whether or not a team caps a pylon in a round. To be converted to hardpoints you must cap a pylon Orbs are hardpoints that can be acquired when you have a pylon in posession. They are added to the hardscore instantly. This is how teams win with 2 minutes left to last detonation Orbs award 2 points, kills award 1, they are thenultiplied per the number on the wz objective tracker. Kills seem to be more effective because you can wipe a team multiple times during one orb run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilas Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How do kills apply with both pylons controlled? Do kills in closer proximity to one pylon apply ONLY to that one? Say I own both pylons and get 100 kills at the east pylon and only 5 at the west. 8 seconds before detonation the east pylon is taken. How many points do I have at the end o that round? Still like to get an answer on this or any other thoughts. When you take both pylons your soft point total definitely increases.. Just not sure on the calculation, is it a straight doubling of your kill total's points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin_of_Vinheim Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 LOL. I came here trying to figure out exactly how points are scored too and apparently its a mystery! Are kills and orbs worth the same, it's just orbs always get added to your total regardless if you control a pylon? Are they worth double a kill, the same, or less? Last night someone was SCREAMING at our team because we were slaughtering the other team at mid. "Stop killing them and get the orbs!" he kept typing. I was like dude, kills are worth just as much as orbs but I didnt say anything and just kept on killing. I refuse to get into typing arguments in the middle of a match. While he was screaming at us, the enemy ninja'd the node he was guarding but we still won the match in the next round. I finished the match at 32-0, a player on their team finished 3-11. It was the only time I have ever seen a team win after getting two capped. I play this WZ like deathmatch, and try to not die and give the other team points while always owning at least one node. I only collect orbs if there are no enemies around. I do agree though, this is the worst WZ, especially for medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts