Why There is All The Complaining

[Ardim]

The majority of the complaining about the new expansion is not about money. After all, if subs can afford to pay $15 a month to play this game, I'm sure they can afford $10 for another planet. No, I'd say it's about principle.

 

After all, Bioware listed Makeb as a content update months or so before, but now they turned it around and called it expansion and are charging us for it. In short, they basically lied to us. Again.

 

That's just how it is. But then again, some people will just continue to defend Bioware no matter what happens, even after all the bad decisions, horrible communication, and broken promises. Even though the state of the game is blatantly obvious (If you think it's going well, think again... Or just continue thinking what you want and keep your heads in the sand.)

 

I will admit, I bought the "expansion", but this is me giving Bioware one last chance. The only reason I even still play this game is because I have good friends and a good guild, but even that's not going to be able to keep me around if this game doesn't get turned around. I've stuck by with this game since the very beginning, having to endure both the good and the bad, but there's no point if the state of the game just won't get better.

 

Well whatever, I said what I wanted to say so I bid you all good day.

[sstanks]

people wonder why they don't tell the players more about upcoming content, well this is why.

 

Here's the thing LONG before F2P was announced in an interview at a E3 i believe one of the developers said that

"Makeb would be the largest content update of any MMO outside of a full expansion"

 

That's it.

 

Then the game was announced going F2P and when asked if Makeb would be free they said they weren't sure.

 

 

Take it how you want i'm just telling you what happened.

[DarthRamette]

Fair enough but w/out knowing more why would I want to spend 10 bucks not knowing anything but the bare bones of the expansion/patch ect. For many like me, its not about the 10 bucks, hell I spend 3x that in diapers a month, its the being asked to buy something we know little about and take it on good faith it will be awesome. No class story line, just a generic Imperial/Republic Story that is slightly tailored to your class, yea 5 new levels, ok I am down with that. I want to know more about what is in this new expansion/patch before I give BW more money. I am only still playing due to having a 3 month sub or else I would have probably left the game as I am getting bored with it. I paid the money so I'm going to use it.

[sstanks]

Fair enough but w/out knowing more why would I want to spend 10 bucks not knowing anything but the bare bones of the expansion/patch ect. For many like me, its not about the 10 bucks, hell I spend 3x that in diapers a month, its the being asked to buy something we know little about and take it on good faith it will be awesome. No class story line, just a generic Imperial/Republic Story that is slightly tailored to your class, yea 5 new levels, ok I am down with that. I want to know more about what is in this new expansion/patch before I give BW more money. I am only still playing due to having a 3 month sub or else I would have probably left the game as I am getting bored with it. I paid the money so I'm going to use it.

 

now this i can fully understand and I agree they should have released more info before they put it up for sale.

[DarthRamette]

now this i can fully understand and I agree they should have released more info before they put it up for sale.

 

That is my main complaint, not enough information for me personally to make me want to buy it but not enough to make me NOT want to buy it. I don't feel I am making an informed decision. I would like to get it but w/out more info I will either wait till it comes and see what happens and get then or not.

[VegaPhone]

I remember seeing a quote that they were still deciding to treat it as a expansion or content update.

 

Also you dont know whats in the expansion, and there could be more then they were planning on releasing as well.

 

And for the state of the game, thats a big general topic, bringing nice reason to rant and rave about that.

 

General issues still are:

 

-Engine optimization

-Large WZ

-Mini games

-Chat bubbles

-player ship decoration

-datacron legacy unlock

-more legacy perks

-Color dye system

-Better draw distance - green patches without grass look too much like tlies in a repeating pattern

-Alien NPCs - more of them

-Catina activities - players play music - maybe have certain features to not have 'noise pollution - like close radius playing ciricles and /ignore music features

-Alien races for character creation - Robots / non-humanoid looking races - who cares about romance arcs looking right - they are already are alien. Im sure their private areas look different (****** with teeth)

- Choice / NPC alignment

-Open world pvp / large scale pvp (could be large WZ) - with sieges

-day/night cycles and weather cycle

-duel arenas / tournament system/ solo rank for pvp

- More events

- More horizontal progression / more end game

- Less re-gearing for pvp gear in the lvl 50 pvp bracket - or having one set system of definite tiers for a bracket which does not get re-geared with stats (maybe new gear and different rewards - but not adding more to the gear grind) or a system that translates progression for alts as well

 

add more if you like - start of new thread

[Draloch]

I'm not too interested in the "they lied" angle.

 

My main problem is that they are moving away from the industry standard of "no extra fees for subscribers," and toward a business model that is more about extracting as much money as they possibly can from anyone who uses their product.

 

"Oh, this flight doesn't come with a meal, but you can buy a sandwich for $10."

 

"Oh, did you have a bag to check? We offer that service. That'll be $50 for the first bag."

 

"Oh, you didn't check in from home before you got to the airport. That's ok, we offer airport checkin for a $20 fee."

 

The reason the airline industry got away with doing this is because they basically colluded and all went along with the new fees.

 

The problem for Bioware is that there are so many other options out there where you can pay a subscription to play an MMO and not be worried about being hit with a surprise fee (and Makeb was very much a surprise for me). Admitedly, the MMO market is filled with games that are good and bad, but there are a fair number of good ones out there that I can play.

 

If Bioware wants me to pay a fee to download a content patch, then I will thank them for the past 13 months, wish them absolutely no luck in developing this new business model, and give my video game budget to another company.

[Knightsire]

people wonder why they don't tell the players more about upcoming content, well this is why.

 

Here's the thing LONG before F2P was announced in an interview at a E3 i believe one of the developers said that

"Makeb would be the largest content update of any MMO outside of a full expansion"

 

That's it.

 

Then the game was announced going F2P and when asked if Makeb would be free they said they weren't sure.

 

 

Take it how you want i'm just telling you what happened.

 

Yes, you are right about the history. However, not releasing more information is going to cause this kind of reaction from customers because it opens much up to speculation to fill the missing gaps of information.

[Tumedus]

people wonder why they don't tell the players more about upcoming content, well this is why.

I see this excuse posted a lot, and its not a very good one. The problem with BW's info stance is they have a "we only tell you if its set in stone" type of policy. Meaning every morsel that does come out of their mouths is seen as concrete, almost guaranteed to be the way it is. That is BioWare's fault, not the consumer.

 

It also means, because it doesn't come very often, that each and every piece of information is picked apart and analyzed to death. And any misinterpretation gets compounded and repeated over an over again. And they aren't likely to correct a misinterpretation themselves so it becomes nearly stated fact after a time.

 

If they were more open, told people things as they were in flux, and explained, when things didn't go as planned, the hows and whys, many would be much more forgiving. I have seen a lot of developers that take this approach and it is largely successful.

 

Would there still be complaints when players didn't get what they want? Of course, that is going to happen regardless. But these people are going to find fault in anything you say anyway, so there is no value in hiding from them. And its better to fight misinformation with fact than silence anyway.

 

Edit: Granted its been this way with BW for years. It was a policy that worked much better when people didn't follow games in the same way they do today. BW just never adapted to the new culture.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Tumedus

[LordFarragut]

First of all they didn't lie, once F2P started, it changed everything. Now as a f2p game, it needs to make money, and if they didnt charge for a new major expansion, it wouldnt make money. However, most f2p games make their money off of the cosmetic stuff and the box of unknown goodies.

[DigitalDreamz]

people wonder why they don't tell the players more about upcoming content, well this is why.

 

This ... quite frankly has to be the most idiotic thing I've read in a LOOOONG time. So you mean to tell me, that a company who solely relies on customer revenue doesn't like the negativity they've received. So to counter they want us to purchase goods/services without knowing ANY INFORMATION?!

 

Let me see ... sorry I'm trying to understand what kind of stupid pills a person must take to think this is a good idea.

 

EA's new marketing strategy:

 

EA Shill: Purchase the all new game!!

 

Customer: What's the game about? What's it called? What's in it?

 

EA Shill: Listen just don't worry about it ok? It's only 10 bucks so just buy it!

 

Customer: Ughhh how am I supposed to purchase it without knowing any information?

 

EA Shill: Damnit enough with your self entitlement! You want information now eh? You guys are seriously spoiled! Last time I ever tell you anything!!

 

 

 

 

 

What alternate universe does this work on again???

[AshlaBoga]

Why is there complaining?

 

BUGS. BUGS. And BUGS.

 

Seriously, SWTOR has so more bugs than Alderaan has Killiks.

[sstanks]

This ... quite frankly has to be the most idiotic thing I've read in a LOOOONG time. So you mean to tell me, that a company who solely relies on customer revenue doesn't like the negativity they've received. So to counter they want us to purchase goods/services without knowing ANY INFORMATION?!

 

Let me see ... sorry I'm trying to understand what kind of stupid pills a person must take to think this is a good idea.

 

EA's new marketing strategy:

 

EA Shill: Purchase the all new game!!

 

Customer: What's the game about? What's it called? What's in it?

 

EA Shill: Listen just don't worry about it ok? It's only 10 bucks so just buy it!

 

Customer: Ughhh how am I supposed to purchase it without knowing any information?

 

EA Shill: Damnit enough with your self entitlement! You want information now eh? You guys are seriously spoiled! Last time I ever tell you anything!!

 

 

 

 

 

What alternate universe does this work on again???

 

not at all. The problem is nothing in a MMO is set in stone. They have plans yes but plans do change.

 

Lets take a look at Diablo 3. Now during production they released this video

One of the new features that was going to be in the game was boss fatalities ie if you died on a boss instead of just falling over the boss would kill you in a cool way.

 

This got a lot of people excited. But there was a problem it didn't work right. So they droped it. What happend? People freaked out. The same thing happened with PVP in Diablo 3. It was said they were going to have PVP areneas like in WoW. But they have since cut it.

 

The problem with releasing information or plans you have for a game is that a lot of times those plans don't happen. The fans however take everything you say as if it is the word of god and heaven help you if you break the word of god.

 

 

Now you are also missunderstanding my post. I do belive they should tell us more about whats in the "expansion" But I am refering to the off hand comment made by a developer that said "Makeb will be the single largest piece of content in an MMO outside of a full expansion" People heard that and thought "oh it must be 100% free" Which maybe he meant that maybe he didn't. It's hard to say. But things change and people are now claiming that they said ti would be free multiple times which never happend. In fact the exact opposite happened.

 

oh and this alternate unvierse that it works in? is called this unvierse. The film industry has been doing it since the beginigng. How many trailers have you seen that look amazing and then the movie is crap?

Edited December 30, 2012 by sstanks

[SnoggyMack]

After all, Bioware listed Makeb as a content update months or so before, but now they turned it around and called it expansion and are charging us for it. In short, they basically lied to us. Again.

 

I don't think it's about principle at all.

 

I think it's about people having some new flesh to feast on in the forums.

 

It's DLC. It's 10 bucks. It most likely combines what was going to be a "patch" with new stuff, like added level cap, and thus plans changed and it now carries a price tag.

 

But plans changing is just a red flag for forum flamefests.

[annabethchase]

My issue is this was supposed to be 2012 content. This was the big E3 reveal and it didn't happen.

[annabethchase]

oh and this alternate unvierse that it works in? is called this unvierse. The film industry has been doing it since the beginigng. How many trailers have you seen that look amazing and then the movie is crap?

 

99% of the time, the content in the trailer is in the movie. And 95% of the time the movie comes out when they say it will. People get very upset in those situations as well, for the same reasons we do here.

[JustTed]

My issue is this was supposed to be 2012 content. This was the big E3 reveal and it didn't happen.

 

This. We were getting this planet along with a "major story update" in 2012, as a content patch.

 

Then the game tanked. Now we have to pay for this "expansion."

[Lord_Karsk]

Players complain when they feel they are alone with the game because the company is quiet.

Like kids in a room, no adults and the screaming and fighting will start.

Sadly bioware dont know the meaning of communication.

[CritasStorm]

It's not an expansion...

 

Not all expansions include a level cap raise, but MOST expansions do and MMO players generally relate a level cap raise with an expansion.

 

EA Suits: "Ok Bioware, how do we try to justify this as an expansion so we can charge for it?"

 

Bioware Devs: "Add new abilities to classes and raise the level cap"

 

EA Suits: "Good idea, so raise the level cap so we can charge for this content pack...err expansion I mean."

 

Bioware Devs: "The problem is that we don't have enough new content to justify a level cap increase - just a new planet and some story missions."

 

EA Suits: "Find a way to justify calling this an expansion, we need to charge for it."

 

Bioware Devs: "I guess we can just scale some of the old content so that it is still relevant at the new level cap."

 

EA Suits: "Whatever, just get it done."

 

Bioware Devs: "So how much are you charging for this "expansion?"

 

EA Suits: "$20 for F2P, $10 for Subs"

 

Bioware Devs: "Oh nice, so subs will just be able to use their monthly cartel coins to purchase the "expansion."

 

EA Suits: "(laughs), I like you. Also, no."

[Xenith]

It's not an expansion...

 

Not all expansions include a level cap raise, but MOST expansions do and MMO players generally relate a level cap raise with an expansion.

 

EA Suits: "Ok Bioware, how do we try to justify this as an expansion so we can charge for it?"

 

Bioware Devs: "Add new abilities to classes and raise the level cap"

 

EA Suits: "Good idea, so raise the level cap so we can charge for this content pack...err expansion I mean."

 

Bioware Devs: "The problem is that we don't have enough new content to justify a level cap increase - just a new planet and some story missions."

 

EA Suits: "Find a way to justify calling this an expansion, we need to charge for it."

 

Bioware Devs: "I guess we can just scale some of the old content so that it is still relevant at the new level cap."

 

EA Suits: "Whatever, just get it done."

 

Bioware Devs: "So how much are you charging for this "expansion?"

 

EA Suits: "$20 for F2P, $10 for Subs"

 

Bioware Devs: "Oh nice, so subs will just be able to use their monthly cartel coins to purchase the "expansion."

 

EA Suits: "(laughs), I like you. Also, no."

 

 

You're right it's not an expansion if we're going off of what info is out for it. However, BW can change that--but we'll have to see what else they're going to announce for it. As for you play-by-play, that was funny. Also, it's probably not far from what actually happened. lol

[DorkTrooper]

If you think it's going well, think again

 

The game is going well for me, because I enjoy playing, and there are plenty of people on my particular server. If and when things change and I don't enjoy playing any longer, I'm not going to add to the whinefest on these forums, I'll just be gone and take my sub money with me. No harm, no foul.

[ShaideCa]

First of all they didn't lie, once F2P started, it changed everything. Now as a f2p game, it needs to make money, and if they didnt charge for a new major expansion, it wouldnt make money. However, most f2p games make their money off of the cosmetic stuff and the box of unknown goodies.

 

Those boxes are going to put me in the poorhouse. BW should just gimme 2 boxes instead of a stipend, it would save me from having to go in and buy 'em.

 

Sorry about taking this off topic slightly. In an attempt to keep it on track, I partially agree with whats been said here. I would love to know more about the expansion, all they gave us in terms of info was "5 new levels, and a new planet", then they asked for 10 bucks.

 

Yes, I did pre-order(Which totally could have gotten me like..3 boxes...just saying!) but only because i didnt want to pay 20, and I am assuming(And I know i could be wrong, and probably am wrong) that there will be a couple class quests. If there is, I am fine with 10 bucks.

 

Doesn't change the fact that they are selling something sight unseen.

[Divona]

You know why there is alot complaining, simply because every decent enough IQ human can put bits together unless they are totally blinded fanboy.

 

Think for a moment, "expansion" cant be bought with CC's? Now that just really odd, they made sure those who saved all CC cant use them. On top of that its 10$ for subscribers. Most EXPANSIONS other MMO's release cost alot more but also have full of new content. I belive gamebreakernation site analyzed it correctly - this "expansion" doesnt have even half of other triple A MMO's expanions content. Reason why they cant ask more money for this is that then people would actually see and start questioning if it was even worth it. Bioware did smart move, they changed content update into "expansion" but asked very little as its not actually fullsize as we know from other MMO's.

 

So in conclusion it is just pure money grabbing by EA from subscribers and thats all. Take a look last cosmetic outfit price.... answer is there.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Divona

[Pathlight-]

The majority of the complaining about the new expansion is not about money. After all, if subs can afford to pay $15 a month to play this game, I'm sure they can afford $10 for another planet. No, I'd say it's about principle.

 

After all, Bioware listed Makeb as a content update months or so before, but now they turned it around and called it expansion and are charging us for it. In short, they basically lied to us. Again.

 

That's just how it is. But then again, some people will just continue to defend Bioware no matter what happens, even after all the bad decisions, horrible communication, and broken promises. Even though the state of the game is blatantly obvious (If you think it's going well, think again... Or just continue thinking what you want and keep your heads in the sand.)

 

I will admit, I bought the "expansion", but this is me giving Bioware one last chance. The only reason I even still play this game is because I have good friends and a good guild, but even that's not going to be able to keep me around if this game doesn't get turned around. I've stuck by with this game since the very beginning, having to endure both the good and the bad, but there's no point if the state of the game just won't get better.

 

Well whatever, I said what I wanted to say so I bid you all good day.

 

My 2 cents:

 

Complaining is a waste of time and shows immaturity. Constructive criticism is good for the game and the community. It's all about attitude and trying to understand the myriad of challenges behind making and maintaining a multimillion dollar MMO.

 

Personnaly, I have a blast with the game. It's my first MMO and I played since late December 2011. I tried WOW and GW2, got bored with both after a day or 2 and kept playing TOR with some breaks here and there. The day I stop having fun I'll leave. No need to whine and accuse BW day in day out. The people who have such feelings toward a game or a game company need to go out, do some sport, get laid, party, spend time with their family... You know... meaningful stuff.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Pathlight-

[ShaideCa]

So in conclusion it is just pure money grabbing by EA from subscribers and thats all. Take a look last cosmetic outfit price.... answer is there.

 

To be fair, anything cosmetic, BW should charge out the nose. If someone wants to pay just to look cool, let em! BW makes some money. Good for them. As long as it doesn't unbalance the game for the rest of us.

 

Secondly, Nobody even really nows exactly what will be added in the EP completely. They just know bits and pieces. Sure, there's a lot of assumptions and guesses, but we have been pretty much in the dark in terms of content, at least as far as I know. If there has been concrete breakdown of everything included in the expansion somewhere, i would love to see it, because all I have found is a partial list. I'm assuming there must be more listed somewhere, otherwise most of these comparisons are pointless and have about as much validity as posting a review for the next upcoming Disney Starwars movie right now.