Sniper PvP Guide by Express

[Z-ToXiN]

Wow this is INSANE. In a good way of course

 

Ive been meaning to play a Sniper for months but am finally getting around to it. This is the perfect hting to get me started. Not too long ago, i remember looking for a Sniper guide since it seems like a complex class and not finding one... Looks great nad looking forward to playing my Sniper.

[Zoidrinali]

A sniper isn't really that complex to play the thing you have to watch and I guess takes the time to get used to is knowing when to pop your defensive cooldowns and where to position yourself (i.e. don't be too mobile and at the same time don't stay still too long).

[Mythurin]

Excellent post Dhrasur. All Snipers should pay heed to these posts to be competitive. I rolled a 50 Sent(Watchman-am I one of the last holdouts?) just to see the mechanics of the Class and came to enjoy it as much as my Sniper.

 

I find my Leth Sniper to be more of a damage dealing hold the line and attack/defend at all costs toon. Ranged DPS is a must have for any Competitive WZ's.

 

The Sent is my somewhat sneaky bastard who can generally 1v1 most 1-manned turrets or doors and get the 3-cap for a short time. And without a doubt makes an excellent method of tracking down HEALs to their doom or at least the other teams doom. The Group buffs of Predation/Transcendence/Inspire/Bloodthirst can not be overstated.

 

-J:cool:

[DarthOvertone]

Why is this not stickied? The Sniper Forum is in dire need of an informative thread like this that peeps can use as a resource, especially when starting out.

[Infalliable]

Why is this not stickied? The Sniper Forum is in dire need of an informative thread like this that peeps can use as a resource, especially when starting out.

 

Definitely, it was long overdue that someone put a good guide thread together.

[NoTomorrow]

I need to correct a few things, i learned that evading cull with evasion does not save you from yellow damage (i thought that those applied only when white damage hit). I still need a good assassin providing me some insight on their standard rotation against snipers depending on spec.

[Dhrasur]

I'm pretty sure the reason this hasn't been stickied is that the devs are too busy but I'll contribute anyway : please sticky this!

 

On my server we tried a full agent team in ranked and I do think it has potential. I'll tell you if we manage to play it more and start getting some team chemistry and results.

[Tamanous]

Well devs have nothing to do with these boards. Community managers do. But please sticky indeed.

 

So many classes *caugh* glow sticks *caugh* have multiple stickies often for each individual spec within the class. Trying to get anything at all listed for agents is frustrating. Perhaps not buffing force using classes over and over and over again and making us play Huttball over and over which only advertises forces using classes may help somewhat. God knows facing teams nearly every time NOT made up of 80%+ force classes would be nice.

 

BTW ... please read what I typed above. Read it over and over again ... it does not say "nerf Operatives". I repeat, it does NOT say "nerf Operatives". There seems to be a history of confusion about this topic when players complain about the horrible state of some specs for certain classes. They are not asking to be nerfed and when 80%+ of a team is made up of smash builds or assassins and the boards are rage posting about it it does not mean "buff them please!!1!".

Edited January 4, 2013 by Tamanous

[BambulaGTS]

Some errors (imho):

 

Evasion gives 200 % ranged/melee dodge, therefore no accuracy buff on Earth can make you hit operative under evasion.

 

In cover your ranged defense is 25 % (not 20 %) due to basic 5 % value.

 

Cover pulse root is not cleansable, opposite to leg shot root, only way to remove it - evasion/force shroud.

 

Armor reduction (shatter shot) =/= armor penetration (ambush talent/target acquired). Armor penetration makes your shot ignore given % of target's armor, thus it has equal efficiency on every target. Armor reduction reduces target's armor rating for 20 %, but since jugg tank and sorc (for example) has different ratings, the % of reduction in damage reduction section will be different, because armor reduction in % grows non linear with the grows of armor rating. That means shatter shot is less effective on high armored targets and more effective on low armored targets (sorcs). If your lower jugg's armor rating from 7000 to 5600 it will be less in armor reduction %, than if you lower sorc's armor rating from 2600 to 2000.

 

Oh forgot: a lot that was written about marksman vs other snipers is not fully correct. Marksman sniper has 2 hard hitting instants basicly on 6 sec CD. And if someone think that it can los so easy or it would not be losed by marskman using this mecanic - it is a big mistake.

 

There is a guy on ToFN one of the best (in my opinion) "marksman" players, gunslinger nick - Trigga, sniper - Roofer, he is like pillar lower back best friend, despite playing marksman.

Edited January 9, 2013 by BambulaGTS

[NoTomorrow]

Some errors (imho):

 

Evasion gives 200 % ranged/melee dodge, therefore no accuracy buff on Earth can make you hit operative under evasion.

 

In cover your ranged defense is 25 % (not 20 %) due to basic 5 % value.

 

Cover pulse root is not cleansable, opposite to leg shot root, only way to remove it - evasion/force shroud.

 

Armor reduction (shatter shot) =/= armor penetration (ambush talent/target acquired). Armor penetration makes your shot ignore given % of target's armor, thus it has equal efficiency on every target. Armor reduction reduces target's armor rating for 20 %, but since jugg tank and sorc (for example) has different ratings, the % of reduction in damage reduction section will be different, because armor reduction in % grows non linear with the grows of armor rating. That means shatter shot is less effective on high armored targets and more effective on low armored targets (sorcs). If your lower jugg's armor rating from 7000 to 5600 it will be less in armor reduction %, than if you lower sorc's armor rating from 2600 to 2000.

 

Oh forgot: a lot that was written about marksman vs other snipers is not fully correct. Marksman sniper has 2 hard hitting instants basicly on 6 sec CD. And if someone think that it can los so easy or it would not be losed by marskman using this mecanic - it is a big mistake.

 

There is a guy on ToFN one of the best (in my opinion) "marksman" players, gunslinger nick - Trigga, sniper - Roofer, he is like pillar lower back best friend, despite playing marksman.

 

Thanks for feedback.

 

Evasion is 100%, force shroud is 200%, i do not recommend trying to force the odds with TA, but you still have a minimal chance to hit, higher than 0%.

Shatter shot, whatever are the mechanics its not worth wasting one gcd on a sage, unless you want healing debuff, against a heavy armored class its ok to use if you can spare a gcd.

 

Snipers vs sniper, those were mostly situations when nether side could escape the line of sight. if one has the ability to LOS while the other is in the open field of course the sniper with los opportunities will have the advantage no matter the spec because he can at least retreat if he is behind the DPS race. If played slopy of course you can get bursted down by MM while being 1m away from the pillar.

 

A sniper can use libe of sight to his advantage if he is the one that hides. But saying that two equal skilled snipers, the MM sniper staying in the open feels comfortable against anyone with close LOS opportunities is just not true. The instant snipe and ft are useful, but they will not win you the duel alone. Any sort of CD usage by the sniper in the open can easily be countered by just waiting them to expire while out of sight.

 

What is the root type of cover pulse? If its physical than both mercs and ops should be able to cleanse it, as well as talented sorc healers. I dont know what other type could it be. No type at all? Can this be possible?

Edited January 9, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Jenzali]

The Cover Pulse root is Tech and can most certainly be cleansed by Mercs and Ops but not Sorcs.

 

I'm also confused about Evasion. It seems to not work for me against one Guardian on my server. I can't think of any accuracy buff that a Focus Guardian would have but his Master Strike hits me even with Evasion up.

[CJNJ]

The Cover Pulse root is Tech and can most certainly be cleansed by Mercs and Ops but not Sorcs.

 

I'm also confused about Evasion. It seems to not work for me against one Guardian on my server. I can't think of any accuracy buff that a Focus Guardian would have but his Master Strike hits me even with Evasion up.

 

Could just be a timing issue, both last 3 seconds unless you get a set bonus so it depends on who uses it last, if you use evasion just before that last tick will still hit. Or that guy just stacks the crap out of accuracy for some reason and you got crap luck lol

[BambulaGTS]

Evasion gives exactly same defenses vs melee/ranged as force shroud against force/tech:

 

Evasion - ModifyStat: AmountMin=>2, Stat=>Melee Defense, AmountMax=>2

 

Force shroud - ModifyStat: AmountMin=>2, Stat=>Tech Defense, AmountMax=>2

 

2 means 200 %.

 

In case of "miracle" guardian, either he just was skilled in timing and watched your buffs, or just cancelled master strike and used something like force sweep or blade storm.

 

Cover pulse root for dispel purpose is not tech. Everything tech dispellable by oper/merc has "(tech)" in popup when mouse pointed on debuff, for example "Interrogation Probe (Tech)". Some effects have no (something), I guess for balance reason, thus being not dispellable, for example sorc talented roots from knockback ("Immobilized"). Root from sniper knockback is the same thing as sorc's ("Immobilized", compare to root from leg shot: "Immobilized (Physical)" - means could be dispelled with physical dispell).

[imehiel]

Absolutely perfect. All the information Sniper could need, can be found here.

Thank you for taking time, to make this exceptionally informative guide.

[Krayshawn]

Please Sticky this thread!

[NoTomorrow]

Evasion gives exactly same defenses vs melee/ranged as force shroud against force/tech:

 

Evasion - ModifyStat: AmountMin=>2, Stat=>Melee Defense, AmountMax=>2

 

Force shroud - ModifyStat: AmountMin=>2, Stat=>Tech Defense, AmountMax=>2

 

2 means 200 %.

 

In case of "miracle" guardian, either he just was skilled in timing and watched your buffs, or just cancelled master strike and used something like force sweep or blade storm.

 

Cover pulse root for dispel purpose is not tech. Everything tech dispellable by oper/merc has "(tech)" in popup when mouse pointed on debuff, for example "Interrogation Probe (Tech)". Some effects have no (something), I guess for balance reason, thus being not dispellable, for example sorc talented roots from knockback ("Immobilized"). Root from sniper knockback is the same thing as sorc's ("Immobilized", compare to root from leg shot: "Immobilized (Physical)" - means could be dispelled with physical dispell).

 

i guess i shouldn't trust tool tips in this case, as i remember something about evasion being 100% range/meee defense bonus, while force shour being 200% force/tech.

 

Also i fixed the engineering 7/31/3 spec, for some weird reason did not have engineering tool belt taken, which was stupid

 

I made some corrections based on your feedback. I still dont have time to assemble something against assassins and jugs. I got some PMs about jugs. I will try to feel these gaps.

Edited January 14, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Mel_the_Jedi]

• Ability keybinding

Bind your abilities in a way that those that can be used as instant cast on the move do not interfere with your moment keys. By this reason a series of shots which requires you to stand still, can be placed somewhere where you could lift your hand from movement keys. An ablity like followthough or takedown should be placed in a way that you shouldnt need to lift your fingers away from WASD.

Also make sure you have focus target set up and acquiring focus's target's target. It will allow you to aid your main DPS in your team with the help of a single button. If we go 2 snipers, and the other one picks the targets, i make him my focus, and i just acquire his targets.

 

 

This is a great guide, so very informative! Could you possible provide an additional little part here about what abilities you don't need to have keybinded for certain specs? Like where Marksman might not use Corrosive Dart so much?

[NoTomorrow]

This is a great guide, so very informative! Could you possible provide an additional little part here about what abilities you don't need to have keybinded for certain specs? Like where Marksman might not use Corrosive Dart so much?

 

Thank you! Personally i think that you need to have different slot bars for different specs. The main reason why you need to do this is because of Snipe which has a totally different priority in Marksmanship compared to other specs. I am not saying that you will not be sniping at all in full engineering. At least once a minute taking advantage of laze target is definitely worth it.

 

Still i am not removing any ability from my slot bars even if i may rarely use it. If you play MM, and some stealthers messes arround with your team, why not DoT him? May be his DoT cleansing is on CD or he just forgets to do it before combat stealthing, then he pops up just because you cared to DoT him. So keep them all.

 

Hell, i've had a gunslinger interrupting me on civil war with suppressive fire, he was on the other side of the terminal, quite far away and he no line of sight to shoot me or even grenade me. Supressive fire interrupted my caping.

 

Here are a few of my hints about keybinding i can come up quickly:

• Entrench keybind should be next to take cover, you need to be able to pop-up entrench almost instantly the moment you go in cover.
  
• Your CC breaker should be next to take cover or very close. Many classes have multiple stuns, and they will restun you if you use cc breaker, this usually forces you to eat the first stun and save the breaker for the second one, with entrench in mind, and if you do it quickly, you can break and immediately get the immunity from entrench
  
• All specs need an easy access to Takedown (for me its C)
  
• MM needs easy access to Laze Target, Snipe, Followthrough, Ambush, SoS, legshot, explosive probe
  
• Engineering needs easy access to interrogation probe, plasma probe, EMP detonate, grenades, eplosive probe, SoS
  
• Lethality needs easy acccess to Corrosive dart corrosive grenade, weakening blast, cull, SoS
  
• For engineering you need keybinds for Interrogation Probe, EMP detonation and Adrenaline probe to be next to each other. You see a target, you are low on energy, select the target press all 3 buttons in succession and you have your energy restored (for those situations when AP was on cooldown).
  
• MM needs rapid fire and SoS next to each other.
  
• Take advantage of Shift + Scrollup/Scrolldown, Alt + Scrollup/scrolldown, middle button click, shift+middlebutton, all these combos are easy to use, you can even chain one of those abilities listed above this way.
  

[Mel_the_Jedi]

Thank you for the detailed answer. Sparked another question though...hehe

 

[*]Take advantage of Shift + Scrollup/Scrolldown, Alt + Scrollup/scrolldown, middle button click, shift+middlebutton, all these combos are easy to use, you can even chain one of those abilities listed above this way.

 

I always have camera issues and find myself zooming in and out with the default scroll up and scroll down. What did you move those to?

[Z-ToXiN]

Ive read through the guide up to section 5, very well done. Havent read the rest of the thread either.

 

What advice would you give to a brand new sniper?

Im mostly wondering what abilities i should be using when, and what the basic priorities would be, even at low levels.

 

The cover system definitely takes some getting used to too - how should i be using it?

[Jenzali]

I am going to be competing in a 1v1 tournament on my Gunslinger. Full heal specs are not allowed so don't need to worry about that. Am I making the correct assumptions here about the best spec to use against the following classes?

 

In general I view Engineering to be the best pure 1v1 spec due to its balanced toolbox of CC, non-white damage, and defensive capabilities, but Marksmanship has a lot more fine-grained control with Flashbang and Diversion which I believe will be necessary in the Marauder matchup. I am unsure about what to use against some of the classes however.

 

vs. Juggernaut: ? Perhaps Lethality vs. Immortal, Engineering vs. Vengeance, Marksmanship vs. Rage?

vs. Marauder: Marksmanship

vs. Assassin: ? I'd like to use engineering for the survivability here but they can basically play a waiting game and nullify your burst by saving Force Shroud for as soon as you drop the Explosive Probe on them. However it seems Marksmanship would take too long to bring their health down with the defensive cooldowns and if they decide to equip a shield.

vs. Sorceror: Engineering

vs. Powertech: Engineering

vs. Mercenary: Engineering

vs. Operative: Engineering

vs. Sniper: ? Is there some rock-paper-scissors going on here? Marksmanship > Engineering > Lethality > Marksmanship? Or perhaps Engineering would lose against Lethality as well since LoS will be available? Plus I wouldn't be able to know beforehand which spec they are so it may be safest overall to just go Lethality and try to LoS them?

 

My idea with the Marauder matchup was to open with white attacks and Leg Shot, use Evasion and then Diversion to kill some time once they reach melee range, and then Flashbang, wait out their defensive CDs, then drop an Orbital Strike, Explosive Probe, Ambush, and Followthrough for a ton of burst all at once. However, this means the next CC ability I use will white-bar them. Is it best to Entrench right from the start and use Debilitate right after so even if they break the Flashbang they will be stuck in your Orbital Strike? But in this case they will be white-barred and you can't knock them back, leaving you with only Evasion to counter a Ravage. In a perfect world it would also be nicest to have Debilitate Available for when they use Undying Rage but this doesn't always work out.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Jenzali

[NoTomorrow]

Can you be more specific about the dueling rules? Are you allowed to change your spec between fights? can you change spec between individual duels? Can you learn what spec your opponent will be before you choosing your own?

 

Engineering and MM are both very decent for dueling. I do think however that MM diversion is the trump card in many duels. I mean against heavy proc reliant classes chaining Evasion with Diversion can leads to incredible results. Against carnage for example, it's very very good to chain these two.

 

Sniper vs. Sniper, check my guide, i believe MM is still the best spec here, i don't think you will be given the opportunity to LoS.

 

What are the dueling rules imposed on Stealthers?

Do they start from stealth? How long can they stay in stealth after combat stealthing? Can they out-of-combat mezz you and heal?

 

All these are very important questions. If they start from stealth, then can combat stealth and stay stealthed for as long as they please, then you will have an extremely tough fight.

 

Against deception assassins there is very little room for you to increase your odds of winning if they can combat stealth for unlimited time. If you by some miracle or knowledge or just luck you manage to beat them in a 3 duels fight with these rules, then I bow down you and express my deepest respect.

 

If the amount of time they can stay stealthed is limited however, they i guess there is a chance for you to win if you plan ahead how you will react to his moves.

 

What advice would you give to a brand new sniper?

Im mostly wondering what abilities i should be using when, and what the basic priorities would be, even at low levels.

 

Well first of all concentrate on a single spec. Take Marksmanship. First concentrate on feeling comfortable with cover system, then focus on your rotation, specifically 2 aspects: getting used to proc Followthoughs on every CD (as its a very powerful instant attack that is very cheap, and can be used on the move), then get used to proc reactive shots on ambush (1,5 s activation time). After you get the grip on your rotation, start looking at the individual matchups how they play out. At this stage you should focus your attention on using the rest of your tools: CC, roots and devensive CDs. Learn first of all to deal with DPS specs, then Healers, then Tanks, then Stealthers.

 

Also consider checking if you have the right mindset when playing the sniper: never forget that you are basically an artilery class that needs support to be effective. If you will build your confidense on this premise, you will very soon start to feel comfortable.

Edited January 16, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[BaineOs]

Jenzali, regarding sniper v sniper. I'm an engineering sniper (I can play other two but I prefer engineering) and yes MM and lethality have their strengths against us but ours is survivability.

 

Use the shield probe, interrogation probe and EMP discharge for another shield probe and you can absorb a lot of damage which helps a great deal (adding ballistic shield in there too). Together with the standard interrogation probe + plasma probe, explosive probe + series of shots combo's that alone can win you the duel.

 

The thing to watch is marksman snipers. For example someone like Express would watch out for our burst rotation (series of shots) and then use diversion to interupt it. When that happens that's the time to use your evasion, timed right of course, (diversion is normally followed by an ambush/snipe + followthrough) and your shield probe. After that flashbang can be used as an interupt assuming they haven't got entrench up.

 

In his guide he says that you can use diversion to start with to delay the explosive probe + series of shots. Against me that would cause me to use interrogation probe + plasma probe to give a 2 sec stun that's only 4 secs left of diversion to go. Can easily use that time to drop a corrosive dart for extra damage and a grenade. Even if after diversion they have entrench up that plasma probe is going to cause a fair bit of damage and we haven't evne gone into our big burst. For me starting with diversion is not the best thing to do against engineering snipers.

 

In fact for me the sooner they use their diversion the better because that's when I can put my entrench up and make sure my burst is uninteruptable. The burst for me includes orbital strike. Sure mm has a skill that limits it but engineering also makes our AOE a lot more powerful than mm's versions. It all helps

Edited January 17, 2013 by BaineOs

[NoTomorrow]

Es'carli, we should practice that stuff. With siege bunker i should be able to mitigate some good chunk of AOE damage, I will probably eat the initial EP explosion and the first second of SoS, i know its not easy to time diversion, but this is probably my best bet, alternatively i can go for evasion which is probably easier to handle, in any way my objective is not to allow you to fully cast SoS.

 

Probably its better to keep diversion to disrupt entrench and ballistic shield and use evasion on first SoS. Just message me when you come online, i really want to try this stuff.

 

BTW, lost a sniper duel because my Takedown missed 25% ranged defense is pretty damn huge, which makes this matchup so much more hectic.

Edited January 17, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Zoidrinali]

Es'carli, we should practice that stuff. With siege bunker i should be able to mitigate some good chunk of AOE damage, I will probably eat the initial EP explosion and the first second of SoS, i know its not easy to time diversion, but this is probably my best bet, alternatively i can go for evasion which is probably easier to handle, in any way my objective is not to allow you to fully cast SoS.

 

Probably its better to keep diversion to disrupt entrench and ballistic shield and use evasion on first SoS. Just message me when you come online, i really want to try this stuff.

 

BTW, lost a sniper duel because my Takedown missed 25% ranged defense is pretty damn huge, which makes this matchup so much more hectic.

 

You will receive less damage for our AOE stuff than other builds yes but we do gain a damage bonus to our AOE attacks. Not able to check the exact figures right now but with the extra crit chance on orbital strike the AOE damage you recieve from engineering snipers is far more than lethality or mm specs.

 

My own personal burst rotation is normally shatter shot, explosive probe, target aquired, series of shots followed up by an ambush (or sometimes I switch the series of shots and ambush around). So for me disrupting my series of shots completely is the worst that can happen. Evasion I think only works on white damage doesn't it? The extra damage given to SOS by series of shots is yellow (I think!) so whilst evasion will remove the white you'll still receive some damage. So if I was mm against engineer I'd try to use diversion for series of shots and evasion for ambush, that way you've received 2 huge chucks of damage relatively easy.

 

Even if SOS is disrupted you've lost that skill for the ambush my spec takes advantage of the +20% ignore armour in mm so with the shatter shot as well that's a nice amount of damage. With the shielding we have it all helps versus mm. The times when I've come up against competent snipers (can't remember if we've ever had a 1on1 in a warzone dude) they're normally the ones that are extremely fast with their burst too fast for me to counter them. So that's the instant snipe and follow through normally followed by a diversion to disrupt my stuff at which point I'm at a heavy disadvantage already.

 

To put it simply I think the winner of a mm/engineer duel is likely to be the one that uses his defense cooldowns/interupts the best. A mm can get his burst of quicker, an engineer can survive more damage than the mm. Every duel I win versus a sniper of any spec is normally down to the defense cooldowns/interupts and depending on how good the sniper is depends on how much damage they've taken off me.

 

In a warzone situation for me against a good sniper of any spec it all boils down to who saw the other sniper first. If they've seen me first then they're already a step ahead and that's a huge disadvantage. Lethality specs are the worst in that regards I don't tend to notice them until my health is dropping like a stone