smash/force sweep spec is faceroll in pvp

[JustinxDuff]

Wrong. 10% increase to armor pen isn't a big buff. Its very small. Our base damage has been the same since day 1.

 

Good try though, please try again.

 

While indirect expertise was changed.

[RTCBrad]

And said chimp couldn't do the same with a bubble sage/sorc right now? Pot, meet kettle

 

Suggesting for 1 tinie tiny second that bubble is even nearly as bad as smash/sweep is just insane. If anything bubble stun is the only thing that stops you people from hitting 1million+ damage in a single warzone

[BobaStyx]

They are both absolutely ruining PvP right now. Before now, it was "OMG marauders defenses are so OP". Now it's "Jesus F-Bomb *** if I'm not blinded and clutching my face I'm getting roflstomped by flying dervishes of death". Keep telling yourself one is worse than the other. Keeping your head buried in the sand isn't going to make either side's argument more justified than the other.

[Racter]

Bubble doesn't bother me as smash spec. If it doesn't pop, cool, if it pops, oh well. Smash is on CD anyway

[Mugsybugs]

I love getting hit by 4 bubble stuns back to back and not having full resolve yet... Simple fix for it is to move bubble stun skill up to 4th or 5th row of Lightning spec, thereby killing any heal/stun bubble spec.

[Naej]

I love getting hit by 4 bubble stuns back to back and not having full resolve yet... Simple fix for it is to move bubble stun skill up to 4th or 5th row of Lightning spec, thereby killing any heal/stun bubble spec.

 

Please do the same with Unremitting... Nothing annoys me more than an unstoppable LoL-Smasher with 4 full seconds of immunity to any stuns while I'm rooted for 3 seconds from his jump. Maybe with a Stun-bubble on, it would annoy me more then.

 

Unremitting should be in the last freaking row, WAAAAYYYY up there in the Vigilance tree, so that only us Vigilance Guardian would get to use it. Wanna play Rage? No love for you!

 

And they need to rework the 100% crit chance after the jump. It's simply plain dumb. Make it 50% at max. Then them guys would need to respec some crit rating in their gear, nerfing some of that surge/power. AND it would miss sometimes.

 

As Vigilance, I have 1 very strong attack you wanna avoid at all cost : Master Strike. It hits 1 target though, channels for 3 sec, and is easily countered with moving out, or stunning. You basically will miss most of the time if the player doesn't suck. Only way to get it to land, is to jump the guy, which gives you the stun immune AND the 3 sec root. Still, doesn't hit AoE, and damage is applied over 3 seconds (you have plenty of time to pop a defensive CD or be healed, or pop your CC breaker and flee).

 

If it was me, I'd nerf the auto-crit on smash, and give them a DPS boost on other skills. Maybe make it based more around Slash, like giving it a certain debuff or like a buff that makes the next one have a shorter GCD. Or like make Smash lose it's AoE when you have stacks of singularity, and make it hit the player you are targeting. Plenty of stuff comes to mind, they just gotta do something about it now.

[NoTomorrow]

I love getting hit by 4 bubble stuns back to back and not having full resolve yet... Simple fix for it is to move bubble stun skill up to 4th or 5th row of Lightning spec, thereby killing any heal/stun bubble spec.

 

Do you know how many asassin BS we would have to move 1-3 tiers above? Class is plagued by tons of ridiculous stuff way low in skill trees.

Edited December 21, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Taciturnul]

Just wondering if there are any plans in the works to make expertise reduce chance to be crit and/or crit damage taken? I have 1300~ expertise yet consistently get obliterated on my sage by bunny hoppers. The average damage taken is between 4-5k, which is bad enough since i only have about 17k hps, but i just had a warzone where a Smash crit hit me for 7300+. 7300+...And that's not just to me, but everyone near me too... No other class has anything even nearly approaching that. A look into this would be much appreciated.

 

Suporting the OP 100%. I feel Your pain...through the force ofc.

[Leafy_Bug]

Smash is good, probably the best thing that has happened in this game .

[Twighead]

Please do the same with Unremitting... Nothing annoys me more than an unstoppable LoL-Smasher with 4 full seconds of immunity to any stuns while I'm rooted for 3 seconds from his jump. Maybe with a Stun-bubble on, it would annoy me more then.

 

Unremitting should be in the last freaking row, WAAAAYYYY up there in the Vigilance tree, so that only us Vigilance Guardian would get to use it. Wanna play Rage? No love for you!

 

And they need to rework the 100% crit chance after the jump. It's simply plain dumb. Make it 50% at max. Then them guys would need to respec some crit rating in their gear, nerfing some of that surge/power. AND it would miss sometimes.

 

As Vigilance, I have 1 very strong attack you wanna avoid at all cost : Master Strike. It hits 1 target though, channels for 3 sec, and is easily countered with moving out, or stunning. You basically will miss most of the time if the player doesn't suck. Only way to get it to land, is to jump the guy, which gives you the stun immune AND the 3 sec root. Still, doesn't hit AoE, and damage is applied over 3 seconds (you have plenty of time to pop a defensive CD or be healed, or pop your CC breaker and flee).

 

If it was me, I'd nerf the auto-crit on smash, and give them a DPS boost on other skills. Maybe make it based more around Slash, like giving it a certain debuff or like a buff that makes the next one have a shorter GCD. Or like make Smash lose it's AoE when you have stacks of singularity, and make it hit the player you are targeting. Plenty of stuff comes to mind, they just gotta do something about it now.

 

You cannot have the leap/cc immunity skill and be a 31 point rage spec. It takes 12 points in vigilance to have that skill. Not that it matters much for this thread, but thought I'd just throw that out there.

[RragnarR]

Smash/sweep

 

Is not the same since day 1. Anyone claiming that is a fool.

I play a Sentinel myself and I feel that smash/sweep is way op in warzones to tell the honest truth.

 

Btw, to back up my words on this not being the same since day 1, here goes.

 

shicho form used to reduce the force cost of your slash by 1. I was changed to give you 2 fous every 0.5 seconds for 3 seconds total. - regenerating 12 focus over 3 seconds + it was changed so you can spec for 4 stacks of singularity with it as well... This lets you throw out a whole lot more dps than earlier.

 

Slash/smash had it's effective cooldown reduced by 3 seconds and damage boosted 20%, "for sentinels"

 

Slash / strike attacks were changed so that they reduce the effective cooldown of your sweep. Meaning your sweep get down to roughly 5-6 seconds cooldown depending on how many attacks you can throw in.

 

So anyone claiming that this spec's damage hasn't been changed since launch is a fool...

[RayGonJinn]

Sorry but...lmfao a sweep derp player telling me to l2p just pure lol omg lol.

 

Seriously you are one broken class, sweep damage needs to be cut in half you will still hit hard enough you just won't be able to go in around spamming away 40% of everyone's HP every few seconds.

 

Sages need serious TLC stun bubble makes us viable sure but is it fun for me to run spending 70% of my time casting bubbles? Of course not I would much rather some better survivability and much higher DPS to match our incredible squishyness but since we don't have that bubble stun is better than being utterly useless. Take away bubble without a buff and you may as well ban sages from war zones because we will be utterly useless.

 

Cut in half huh? Really? Let me enlighten you on how the spec works. The spec needs "singularity" (increases the damage of the automatic crit sweep). Sigularity is acquired by ticks from either force exaustion or force stasis. So While Focus guys are waiting four valuable seconds for the Singularity to stack. You other classes are trying to crit 2k-3k or 3k-4k on us in those 4 seconds, in a row. So that sweep evens the odds. So your saying or its ok for operatives to pop out of stealth on us (We're get knocked down) and as our characters are getting up our health is at 20%10% (if we let them do what they want to do) so that operative hit for 4k on his first attack then 2 more back stabs before we get to our feet. they got the first attack on us doing 10k+ damage over 3 seconds and u want our sweep to crit for 3k on them instead of 6k-7k on them to even the odds in that fight? you guys are nuts.

[Leafy_Bug]

Cut in half huh? Really? Let me enlighten you on how the spec works. The spec needs "singularity" (increases the damage of the automatic crit sweep). Sigularity is acquired by ticks from either force exaustion or force stasis. So While Focus guys are waiting four valuable seconds for the Singularity to stack. You other classes are trying to crit 2k-3k or 3k-4k on us in those 4 seconds, in a row. So that sweep evens the odds. So your saying or its ok for operatives to pop out of stealth on us (We're get knocked down) and as our characters are getting up our health is at 20%10% (if we let them do what they want to do) so that operative hit for 4k on his first attack then 2 more back stabs before we get to our feet. they got the first attack on us doing 10k+ damage over 3 seconds and u want our sweep to crit for 3k on them instead of 6k-7k on them to even the odds in that fight? you guys are nuts.

 

 

 

Interesting posts, refresh my memory, does the operative crit like that on one target or multiple ones ? Thanks

[SharpG]

Cut in half huh? Really? Let me enlighten you on how the spec works. The spec needs "singularity" (increases the damage of the automatic crit sweep). Sigularity is acquired by ticks from either force exaustion or force stasis. So While Focus guys are waiting four valuable seconds for the Singularity to stack. You other classes are trying to crit 2k-3k or 3k-4k on us in those 4 seconds, in a row. So that sweep evens the odds. So your saying or its ok for operatives to pop out of stealth on us (We're get knocked down) and as our characters are getting up our health is at 20%10% (if we let them do what they want to do) so that operative hit for 4k on his first attack then 2 more back stabs before we get to our feet. they got the first attack on us doing 10k+ damage over 3 seconds and u want our sweep to crit for 3k on them instead of 6k-7k on them to even the odds in that fight? you guys are nuts.

 

The ignorance is strong with this one, you do realize operatives don't have automatic crits on ANY abilities first of all right? Second, if our opener doesn't crit itll hit for all of 2.5k. Third, the knockdown lasts for 1.5s, any decent player will immediately stun the said operative after getting up from the knockdown effectively ruining their entire opener. Sure I could understand complaints if we were seeing auto crits of 7.5k from stealth as an operative, the highest an operative can hit right now is just over 5k, and that's not a guaranteed crit bud . (Its also only usable with stealth which is even less frequent then smashes with singularity being gained much faster and a low CD on smash/force sweep)

Edited December 21, 2012 by SharpG

[Wainamoinen]

Cut in half huh? Really? Let me enlighten you on how the spec works. The spec needs "singularity" (increases the damage of the automatic crit sweep). Sigularity is acquired by ticks from either force exaustion or force stasis. So While Focus guys are waiting four valuable seconds for the Singularity to stack. You other classes are trying to crit 2k-3k or 3k-4k on us in those 4 seconds, in a row. So that sweep evens the odds. So your saying or its ok for operatives to pop out of stealth on us (We're get knocked down) and as our characters are getting up our health is at 20%10% (if we let them do what they want to do) so that operative hit for 4k on his first attack then 2 more back stabs before we get to our feet. they got the first attack on us doing 10k+ damage over 3 seconds and u want our sweep to crit for 3k on them instead of 6k-7k on them to even the odds in that fight? you guys are nuts.

1) You chose to ignore that you get instant 4 singularity when you use Combat Focus (40s cd), along with a load of focus. Got Combat Focus up? On-demand mega-smash. Also, if you have any sense, you use it well before the beginning of a fight to have it ready again soon after the start.

2) The two other singularity-building abilities you do mention that you're forced to default to when CF is on cd: one is choke, that stuns and damages your target while you build up the 4 stacks of singularity to smash him to high heaven again; the other is Force Exhaustion, a fire-and-forget dot that lets you use big hits like Blade Storm or Dispatch while it quickly ramps up 4 singularity again. Oh, and it does damage and snares too, how terrible for you.

 

So while you're waiting those 4 terrible seconds to build full singularity again (if the ability you ignored that gives you it instantly is on cd), rather than the 90 seconds to get Disappearing Act off CD for another Shoot First, you've either stunned or snared your target and he's definitely taking damage - possibly a lot of it. You're definitely not stood there like a lemon being thumped (well, unless you are a lemon).

 

I'll be charitable and assume you don't realise how easy you have it.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Wainamoinen

[RayGonJinn]

lol Ignorance... I don't have a problem with any class I kill them all both with vigilance and focus spec. When an operative pops out of stealth on me i use awe (AoE stun) as soon as it can pop it. Yes as soon as i use awe I pop combat focus to gain my singularity. Yes I use zealous leap to get my auto crit and pop my sweep on that operative. Im not ignorant I just didnt mention all that because Im coming from an understanding of all the classes. I've seen Operatives/Scoundrels kill players in 3 hits in WZ's popping out of stealth. I never seen a sage stun someone who was behind them... I never seen a commando Cryo someone behind them... I never seen a sorc force wave someone behind them since they changed the force wave. You say I'm ignorant but You guys only thinking about 1 class when I'm coming from a point of view of all the classes. Point is... If focus gotta get cut in half... so does every other classes dps. If focus has to get cut in half the you shouldn't be able to attack someone while u run circles hopping around like a broke chicken. lol Ignorance...

 

Force Stasis/Choke is a 3-4 second stun so who is hitting me while my Sweep is on cooldown? That dang Vanguard/Powertech you brought with you thats setting me ablaze and railshot/HiB my *** thats who.... oh and maybe that second operative you brought with you... you sit in your high and mighty chair throwing the ignorance word around like you innocent of tactics in warzones. Go 1v1 the best damn Focus spec guardian or juggy in private (outside of WZ) and give it all you got in that fight. Then you come on here talking about nerfs. oh and Ilmarinen pls don't be some recruit geared scrub going against a full optimized pvp geared augmented player and expect a good result. PvPers work hard for there gear... too hard for you half geared cry babies to come on here crying about nerfs

 

and Hell YES! im glad its an AoE crit for 4-7k on up to 5 players... for you Premades "Grouping with my friends" (they wouldnt be your friend if they weren't good and you know it) where you got a healer thats hard to down and your protecting them... and then there's another healer next to ur super good healer and the pug isn't downing any of them... hell yes I give the healers work to do. either they die or their team dies which one? you guys can complain all you want... try solo Q'n and PvP'n with the people sometimes and you will see a dfference in WZ until then don't come on here talking about ignorance while your trying to farm pugs with your super 4man group. as long as pugs are as bad as they are I will be focus and give you healers something to do.

Edited December 21, 2012 by RayGonJinn

[EtiMos]

Here is a question to ponder on. Rage/Focus has done the same amount of damage since day 1. So why is the damage so OP all of a sudden? They reworked focus/rage management for quicker sweeps.

 

Really? Rage spec didn't have FREE (no action cost) smashes. Also didn't have 15% crit increase for Vicious Throw/Dispatch.Remove these and you will see the true dmg of the spec.

Edited December 21, 2012 by EtiMos

[byteresistor]

Really? Rage spec didn't have FREE (no action cost) smashes. Also didn't have 15% crit increase for Vicious Throw/Dispatch.

But what they did have was 10% more smash damage (sorry maras) and the ability to use adrenals for those 9k-10k crits.

[xContex]

Really? Rage spec didn't have FREE (no action cost) smashes. Also didn't have 15% crit increase for Vicious Throw/Dispatch.Remove these and you will see the true dmg of the spec.

 

Why is it so hard to comprehend what I'm asking. Force Sweep/Smash, the skill everyone and their mother is whining about, has not changed in damage. It has 10% increased armor penetration. That is it. All these other skills are irrelevant because the #1 complaint is force sweep/smash. That is the only point I am trying to get across. And my reasoning for that question is to get you guys to understand it isn't 1 force sweeper that is a problem. Its 5 of them. This is the sole reason why force sweep does NOT need a nerf in damage, but they need to nerf the ability to stack 5 of them and be just as effective IE what I suggested pages ago.

 

Force Sweep producing a debuff to the affected targets essentially reducing X% of damage from other force sweeps for X amount of seconds.

 

Please do the same with Unremitting... Nothing annoys me more than an unstoppable LoL-Smasher with 4 full seconds of immunity to any stuns while I'm rooted for 3 seconds from his jump. Maybe with a Stun-bubble on, it would annoy me more then.

 

Unremitting should be in the last freaking row, WAAAAYYYY up there in the Vigilance tree, so that only us Vigilance Guardian would get to use it. Wanna play Rage? No love for you!

 

You my friend do not know what you are talking about. It is impossible for a focus/rage guardian/jugg to get unremitting without sacrificing force exhaustion/force crush. Without Force Exhaustion that focus bomber is essentially useless. Again, nice try. Please come again.

Edited December 21, 2012 by xContex

[SharpG]

lol Ignorance... I don't have a problem with any class I kill them all both with vigilance and focus spec. When an operative pops out of stealth on me i use awe (AoE stun) as soon as it can pop it. Yes as soon as i use awe I pop combat focus to gain my singularity. Yes I use zealous leap to get my auto crit and pop my sweep on that operative. Im not ignorant I just didnt mention all that because Im coming from an understanding of all the classes. I've seen Operatives/Scoundrels kill players in 3 hits in WZ's popping out of stealth. I never seen a sage stun someone who was behind them... I never seen a commando Cryo someone behind them... I never seen a sorc force wave someone behind them since they changed the force wave. You say I'm ignorant but You guys only thinking about 1 class when I'm coming from a point of view of all the classes. Point is... If focus gotta get cut in half... so does every other classes dps. If focus has to get cut in half the you shouldn't be able to attack someone while u run circles hopping around like a broke chicken. lol Ignorance...

 

Force Stasis/Choke is a 3-4 second stun so who is hitting me while my Sweep is on cooldown? That dang Vanguard/Powertech you brought with you thats setting me ablaze and railshot/HiB my *** thats who.... oh and maybe that second operative you brought with you... you sit in your high and mighty chair throwing the ignorance word around like you innocent of tactics in warzones. Go 1v1 the best damn Focus spec guardian or juggy in private (outside of WZ) and give it all you got in that fight. Then you come on here talking about nerfs. oh and Ilmarinen pls don't be some recruit geared scrub going against a full optimized pvp geared augmented player and expect a good result. PvPers work hard for there gear... too hard for you half geared cry babies to come on here crying about nerfs

 

and Hell YES! im glad its an AoE crit for 4-7k on up to 5 players... for you Premades "Grouping with my friends" (they wouldnt be your friend if they weren't good and you know it) where you got a healer thats hard to down and your protecting them... and then there's another healer next to ur super good healer and the pug isn't downing any of them... hell yes I give the healers work to do. either they die or their team dies which one? you guys can complain all you want... try solo Q'n and PvP'n with the people sometimes and you will see a dfference in WZ until then don't come on here talking about ignorance while your trying to farm pugs with your super 4man group. as long as pugs are as bad as they are I will be focus and give you healers something to do.

 

First of all your post is COMPLETE gibberish, I can hardly make out a point that you are trying to make. I'm not sure how an operative being behind a commando/sage prevents the commando/sage from turning around and stunning them. As for your claim about having a point of view from every class, that's obviously a joke, you clearly know nothing about any class other then your own focus guardian to be making wild accusations like these.

 

I have five different 50s so I'd say I have some knowledge of what classes can do. Next time you try to argue a point, make sure it isn't complete gibberish and actually gets a point across, because basing your arguments off of things "you've seen" is ridiculous.

Edited December 21, 2012 by SharpG

[BobaStyx]

Smash/sweep

 

Is not the same since day 1. Anyone claiming that is a fool.

I play a Sentinel myself and I feel that smash/sweep is way op in warzones to tell the honest truth.

 

Yeah here's Day 1 Sweep/Smash

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHuwPm6aDhs

 

You really want that back?

[RTCBrad]

Cut in half huh? Really? Let me enlighten you on how the spec works. The spec needs "singularity" (increases the damage of the automatic crit sweep). Sigularity is acquired by ticks from either force exaustion or force stasis. So While Focus guys are waiting four valuable seconds for the Singularity to stack. You other classes are trying to crit 2k-3k or 3k-4k on us in those 4 seconds, in a row. So that sweep evens the odds. So your saying or its ok for operatives to pop out of stealth on us (We're get knocked down) and as our characters are getting up our health is at 20%10% (if we let them do what they want to do) so that operative hit for 4k on his first attack then 2 more back stabs before we get to our feet. they got the first attack on us doing 10k+ damage over 3 seconds and u want our sweep to crit for 3k on them instead of 6k-7k on them to even the odds in that fight? you guys are nuts.

 

Hmm I know how the spec works I have a guardian myself as well as my sage. Difference between me and you though is I'm not a sweep derp noob because I refuse to encourage this monumental imbalance.

 

The damage needs to be halved. Difference between you and an operative you do a 7k+ aoe. And lets not forget your sweep crits are 100% guranteed everytime, operatives are not. Also singularity can be charged instantly with combat focus I think you need to be enlightened about the spec, not me.

Edited December 21, 2012 by RTCBrad

[xContex]

Hmm I know how the spec works I have a guardian myself as well as my sage. Difference between me and you though is I'm not a sweep derp noob because I refuse to encourage this monumental imbalance.

 

The damage needs to be halved. Difference between you and an operative you do a 7k+ aoe. And lets not forget your sweep crits are 100% guranteed everytime, operatives are not. Also singularity can be charged instantly with combat focus I think you need to be enlightened about the spec, not me.

 

I think sages should have their heals cut in half. Oh and their damage and dots? Just remove those from the game. Sages don't need to DPS anyway.

 

Oh btw I have a sage I know what I'm talking about.

/endsarcasm

 

See how easy it is to look stupid? Try to avoid that.

Edited December 21, 2012 by xContex

[RayGonJinn]

First of all your post is COMPLETE gibberish, I can hardly make out a point that you are trying to make. I'm not sure how an operative being behind a commando/sage prevents the commando/sage from turning around and stunning them. As for your claim about having a point of view from every class, that's obviously a joke, you clearly know nothing about any class other then your own focus guardian to be making wild accusations like these.

 

I have five different 50s so I'd say I have some knowledge of what classes can do. Next time you try to argue a point, make sure it isn't complete gibberish and actually gets a point across, because basing your arguments off of things "you've seen" is ridiculous.

 

Dude you sound like a person who doesnt know what their talking about so welcome to the club. How can the commando, sage whatever the class is turn around and stun the operative/scoundrel before they die from the dps? clearly yoou go against some stationary ops/scounds cause the one i go against... turn around isnt fast enough. The good players I have to go against is WZs are mobile... very mobile. 50% movement speed increase mobile so with that being said simply turning around (the solution you submitted) doesn't work. You guys do need to learn to play your class better instead of crying about force sweep crits. I wish we were on the same server to show you that no matter the spec I am whether Focus or Vigilance I'd beat you. Practice dps'n from range buddy. It sounds like thats all you got.

Edited December 21, 2012 by RayGonJinn

[Ghost_Spectre]

Yeah here's Day 1 Sweep/Smash

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHuwPm6aDhs

 

You really want that back?

 

That is really...insane. No AC should have the ability to generate that type of damage in a single attack, no one. And people are complaining that my Static Barrier is OP?