So much for not charging subs for Makeb

[Kazaganthis]

What was datamined was the original content that was makeb. It pretty apparent since that's happened they took makeb, added new levels, added whatever else they added (a new OP, etc) and made it an expansion.

 

 

I'm ok with that.

 

Sure they did. Cause BW has been so generous with content. I mean theyve hit their 6 week schedule every time...by...releasing the already finished held back content...

 

No its the same thing. Its a game update just like RoR and the Dread Guards TfB storyline. If you think they are going to add in an op and FPs for 10 bucks you are delusional. Hell they can barely get the Ops we have to stop bugging out. TfB is still broken and doesnt even spawn annomilies. Theyll just claim its "a feature" and probably charge us for it.

[Arkerus]

Sure they did. Cause BW has been so generous with content. I mean theyve hit their 6 week schedule every time...by...releasing the already finished held back content...

 

No its the same thing. Its a game update just like RoR and the Dread Guards TfB storyline. If you think they are going to add in an op and FPs for 10 bucks you are delusional. Hell they can barely get the Ops we have to stop bugging out. TfB is still broken and doesnt even spawn annomilies. Theyll just claim its "a feature" and probably charge us for it.

 

Well see what's really in it when the time comes. 10 is fine by my pocketbook. If you don't like it...theres a hole shaped like a door over there.

[VegaPhone]

We can also hope someone robs a bank and gives it to swtor... but really... I am skeptical the money is being spent wisely.

 

All I know is I am not happy with the lack of new since 1 year of release. More of the same... and sure Makeb is coming soon, but thats all I know...

 

What about other important things which dont even have timelimes. What is the SSSP?

 

So... I would like to see swtor devs get a boat load of cash to get er done... but I want to see the right things being developed as well. And Makeb hopefully will be a good sign.

[Kazaganthis]

We can also hope someone robs a bank and gives it to swtor... but really... I am skeptical the money is being spent wisely.

 

All I know is I am not happy with the lack of new since 1 year of release. More of the same... and sure Makeb is coming soon, but thats all I know...

 

What about other important things which dont even have timelimes. What is the SSSP?

 

So... I would like to see swtor devs get a boat load of cash to get er done... but I want to see the right things being developed as well. And Makeb hopefully will be a good sign.

 

Be careful what you wish for. They HAD a boatload of cash and this game launched (ill give them that it was most likely EA pushing it out the door ready or not) with so many missing features, game breaking bugs, and the horrible CS we still have it could hardly be called a AAA MMO. Now they lost so many people or fired so many...

[Exly]

Yes they did originally intend for it to be free. But then many things changed as a I said before there were layoffs they converted to f2p etc. So it no longer seems feasible for them to give it away for free. And it's not really a bomb. They have been saying for several months that they are considering charging for it.

 

Also when are people gonna realize that they have teams of people doing several different things. It's not like everyone was writing f2p code. Probably no more than 5 people were doing that, the rest were developing new content. Now whether or not this content was released when it had to or not is up to marketing who decided to wait after f2p.

 

Back to makeb, it seriously isn't that much I don't really understand why people complain about it. And as far as your paying for subscription before f2p argument, that was all payed off by the Cartel Coins reward program.

 

Again I'm gonna try another analogy. Let's imagine that we have a deal in which you state that you will never harm me in any way ever whatever i do. But then I kidnap your whole family and I kill them. Are you gonna keep your promise and not kill me or are you gonna rip my heart out? Maybe the more brutal version will get through.

 

My point is when the circumstances change so does everything else.

 

Point 1 - EA/Bioware knew when they told us about Makeb that they were prsenting us with a carrot on a stick, and they did this in order to pacify us at a time when so many were leving the game (or at least that is how I perceived what they did). The good news for them is that it worked, and I stayed because I believed them. Now they have pulled the rug out from under us with their current decission to charge for the content that they led us to beieive that we would get without an extra charge. I for one am not happy with their decission.

 

Point 2 - I do realize that they many people working for them, and that only a select number of them were tasked with writing f2p code. However, I still believe that if they had not retasked their employees, that those employees would have been free to help code actual game content.

 

Point 3 - Makeb was supposed to be given to us at no extra charge. They now want to charge for it because too many peolpe became disenchanted with the game and unsubbed. I for one think that by deciding to charge for the content has had a detrimental effect on me, and has caused me to rethink my willingness to continue to do business with them. Think about it, you say that it is not that much money, and that everyone should just suck it up and pay what they are asking wtihout becoming upset. Well if the amount is that small, why don't they just reverse their decision, and not charge for the content. After all if it is not that much, how can they miss it if they do not receive it.?

 

Point 4 - Your example is a pretty extreme one, and I will not speculate how you or I might act in such an extreme situation. Instead, lets say that paid a fixed maintenance fee to care for you car, and the company providing you with the service stated the it would include new wiper blades at some fixed point in time in the future, but when the time arrives for you to get them they inform you that you will have to wait three months for them, and that you will have to pay for them when when you do get them. I am guessing that you would not roll over as easy for them as you are doing in this case. Well you can call it a maintenance fee, or you can call it a subcription fee, but whatever you call it, the company offering the service should be held to the same standard even if curcomstances change.

[SilentKitty]

Below is a re-post of what I wrote in another thread, but I feel like it applies here as well.

 

 

I'm sure there is a disconnect of info. But the James quote is quite old (may/June) and the Jeff Hickman is from August. Sorry but the latest Hickamn quote supercedes the James quote as it was the most recent.

 

Well yes, I agree.

 

Link to interview with Jeff Hickman in which he says they are not sure if subscribers will have to pay or not. Dated August the 18:th.

 

From interview.

What (if anything) will subscribers have to pay for after F2P launches?

 

Jeff Hickman: I wish I had a solid answer for you on that. We’re still in discussion about some of the larger content updates that we’re planning. Great example is the planet Makeb. We’ve talked about Makeb, we have a lot of plans around Makeb. I wish I could give you more details, but I can tell you that I think the playerbase is going to be really, really pleased. More story content. New and interesting things for the players to do. More systems and interesting functions in the game … I can’t go into a lot of detail, but around things like that … This is a pretty big piece (of content). It is probably all that I can say. It is definitely still for discussion whether we sell that to the subscriber or the subscriber gets that for free because it is a big beefy chunk of content.

 

So we do know that in August they were not quite certain on whether or not to charge for Makeb and they said so. Now it appears that it will be charged for. They feel there is a big amount of content. If you feel that it costs too much, then perhaps you should wait a little to actually see what is in it. If you are complaining that at some point it was free. Well.. Then I agree with MrSchmo here.

 

In August they were thinking about charging for it since they believe that it was a big update. And they said so. They were at least coming with information to us. I do not feel that this is a unfair price nor that they are wrong to charge. If the only reason one is complaining is because at one point they thought about doing things a different way. Well, then we know why they do not communicate with us. Because we take all their first information as gold plated not up for change truths. We do not see them as talking about things in the future and how they are now thinking about implementing them. We apparently see it as a word from above, this is how it shall be, woe us if there is any future change. Which is why we have no more communication until things are actually ready to go into the game. They know that if anything changes from their first statement on a fact, we will lash out. So now we get silence. Not sure that this is better.

 

I subscribe, so the money I spent pre-ordering this expansion is less than what I spent going to see The Hobbit last week, it seems like a reasonable sum. Why I've already got it ordered, because I play everyday pretty much and have fun. I vote with my wallet so this is easy to do for me. And I do understand that things change, for me I would actually prefer that they could come with information, come up with updates on that information if it was needed. But I do see how they might reason that silence until it is packed and ready to go might be an option.

[chuixupu]

I really wish people would stop buying Hickmans false advertising. This is NOT an expansion. It is original content update 1.4. .

 

http://www.torhead.com/guide/leak-1.4

 

Doesn't say anything about Makeb on there...because they started writing Makeb long after this old layout was created. Go back and read the Darthhater interview with Daniel Erickson and you can get a better picture about how Makeb came about and why.

[Oggthebase]

From june this year at E3, James Ohlen, game director (maybe not anymore...):

 

 

Starting at the 5th minute mark:

"Makeb will be the biggest, non expansion pack, piece of content that any online game ever released"

 

- for free (read "included in the subscription")

- before the end of the year

 

He also speaks about Ancient Hypergates and Terror from Beyond being developed, so all of that content was being worked on and almost ready for release in june.

 

Then some idiot from Bioscrooge decides to go F2P, shaft the subscribers by giving all that content piecemeal and making Makeb a fake paying expansion.

[Kazaganthis]

http://www.torhead.com/guide/leak-1.4

 

Doesn't say anything about Makeb on there...because they started writing Makeb long after this old layout was created. Go back and read the Darthhater interview with Daniel Erickson and you can get a better picture about how Makeb came about and why.

 

All they did was change the name Varl to Makeb.

[Stradlin]

Well, this is awkward..

[HammersteinSW]

Well in June it was already evident that their whole (idiotic) masterplan of having 5 millions subscribers was not working. So Ohlen's plan was already obsolete by then, only he didn't want to realize it.

[Machine-Elf]

I don't believe Makeb has been ready to go since June.

However, it's pretty clear that every single piece of content they released since they announced their intentions to churn out smaller patches at a faster rate, has been done for many, many months. That means 1.4, 1.5, and 1.6 are all pieces of content which were done and ready to go way back when, and the same will apply for 1.7, 1.8, and 1.9, up until 2.0—which will feature Makeb as its centerpiece.

 

The funny thing is we still haven't gotten to see any content from this new development team. Their job so far has only been to repurpose content which the old devs had produced for the new f2p model.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Machine-Elf

[Trollokdamus]

10 bux... 10 bux... 10 bux...

You guys are starting to become really annoying with your "10 bux" mantra. And calling everyone who disagrees with you kids.

Loads of people have already told you numerous times that the issue is not the price of this so called expansion. The issue is the way this game is ruled by devs and their attitude.

Heck, i'm willing to pay them 50$ or even more for the real expansion, which includes class story continuation on a number of new planets, end game content and new features like mini games. In other words, if they can show us that they are capable of turning to the right direction.

[Machine-Elf]

Mini-games are coming with Makeb. That's from way back in the Erikson days.

[Zaemiel]

Mini-games are coming with Makeb. That's from way back in the Erikson days.

 

Where did you get this, may i ask?

[grombrinda]

Apples =/= Oranges. Section X is a small zone. Makeb is an entire planet with content for 5 new levels of advancement, new datacrons and places to explore. We are not talking a $50 expansion. $10-$20 is not nickel and diming anyone for that amount of content.

 

Also, it is completely optional. If you are still torn about paying for the new stuff, then you do not have to buy it.

 

As I said, many of the complaints over this would go away if allowed to buy with cartel coins. Simple.

 

And Section X is optional, the way they are setting this up is not an option as character progression in terms of gear and skills makes this a requirement, I can skip Section X as I have been doing.

[DeadlyConqueror]

Mini-games are coming with Makeb. That's from way back in the Erikson days.

 

Lol i hope that's a joke.

[kidatwood]

I preordered last night 10 bucks is well worth the expansion. but I've also cone to the conclusion that in MMO's things are subject to change.

[KariTalRathe]

All MMOs require payment for expansions. All "F2P" MMOs I have ever played require payment for "DLC", all of the "DLC" from those games are little more than a small increase in the amount of content available to play. Stop pretending that this isn't a rehash of "successful" "F2P" model games.

 

This is not true. Lineage 2 - my first MMO and, along with Lineage, the king of MMOs before WoW launched - did not charge for expansions. For me it was quite the culture shock to find that wasn't the case with all sub-based MMOs. And in my experience, MMOs designed to launch as FTP also never charge for additional content, but I agree these are not usually 'expansions' as we know them.

 

Even LotRO, the sub-based turned FTP MMO, allows a way for all players to 'buy' the expansions with in-game credit and I hope to see BW do the same for SWTOR. I don't mind waiting a week or a month, but I will object if a FTP game turns into a FTP with bits you have to pay cash for.

 

I know my sub allows me access to MMO servers, but I've always felt it was more than that. Subscriptions also mean a steady income for the company to continue to develop their gameworld (as NCSoft recognise). I paid for it once - I'm still paying! - why should I be made to pay a second time?

 

These are my own thoughts that apply to MMOs generally, regardless of whether I am a fan of the game or not. It's all very well defending company A because of the goodwill you feel toward them or a particular product of theirs, but goodwill has to flow the other way if a steady (paying) population is to be maintained. There are too many companies out there competing for the same custom and many offer better deals than we get here currently.

[tzagheru]

What happened to Never paying for an expansion?

 

EA happened, and its DLC not expansion.

Edited December 20, 2012 by tzagheru

[Machine-Elf]

Developers have been talking about integrating new systems into Makeb. If this doesn't mean mini-games per se, it's bound to be as close to them as we're going to get (at least in the foreseeable future).

[SilentKitty]

As I said, many of the complaints over this would go away if allowed to buy with cartel coins. Simple.

 

And Section X is optional, the way they are setting this up is not an option as character progression in terms of gear and skills makes this a requirement, I can skip Section X as I have been doing.

 

I don't know. We will just have to see what happens

 

Allison wrote this in another thread

 

Hi everyone! While we can't address every concern raised in this thread right now, we can reassure you that the gear you've obtained in our current endgame will continue to be relevant after the expansion is released, and it will provide a great bootstrap into the higher-level content offered by Rise of the Hutt Cartel. You won't be replacing your Dread Guard gear with gear you pick up as you level, and thanks to improvements in the way item power is calculated, we won't be handing out any entry-level gear at the new level cap. You'll hear more about RotHC as we approach its launch, and we'll continue to answer questions and provide more details!

 

Here's the link to her post

 

I think that they are trying to battle Power Creep, or at least I hope so

 

Penny Arcade has a really good episode on it so I'm linking it as well. Will we have new gear, yes I would be surprised if we didn't but I also hope that they will keep the older things relevant. Since Dread Guard gear seems to be still good it sounds promising to me at least.

 

Link to Penny Arcade's episode on Power Creep, it's good

Edited December 20, 2012 by SilentKitty

[UltimateKrucible]

Did a lot of people complaining about the cost of Makeb miss the whole 'F2play' thing?

 

Guys- SWTOR is a Free to Play game now. That means its major source of income comes from people buying stuff from the cash shop.

 

All the plans made before the conversion are dust now. Times have changed. It's sad, but that's where we're at.

 

Did the whole Life Day thing not tell you something? There will be no more freebies. Ever. Deal with it.

 

 

 

Personally, I've pre-ordered. The cost to subscribers is about the same as a coffee and cake daliance at my local deli. That gives me an hour's pleasure - Makeb will give me many more. Win-win.

[SalvorHardin]

And it was the plan at the time. But then there's been the late July EA's earnings call which kicked every BioWare's plans in the face...

 

It's getting harder and harder for BioWare to communicate as they pretty much have to lie to us, hide facts et go back on their words in order to keep EA's executives from sinking the last piece of wreckage by going all out on a rotten economic model that will kill the spirit of the core community. Because at this point, if BioWare admits or even hintly acknowledge they are now trying to get more money out of subscribers to keep the game afloat, it will sink.

 

So yes, Makeb was supposed to be an awesome free AAA expansion that other MMOs never dreamed of... But we have to realize that things have changed and that we're now required to help them out by giving 10 bucks for it. If we want to continue playing this game that is !

 

I'm not happy about it, but I made my choice : I want to continue playing this game and this Makeb mess is not yet the last straw for me (but I'll admit, it's getting closer by the minute).

[SWaotc]

For people who have subbed since launch this is BS, what exactly have subs been used for? This game was circling the toilet bowl of fail for a long time and then F2P came along and saved the day. That day next year however i expect will be a very different story.

 

This **** may not be expensive but it still amounts to RIP OFF no matter how you cut it.