Gamasutra: The Burning of Star Wars - The Old Republic

[NasherUK]

You could say this about most MMOs though.

 

E.g. Wow's recycled content is FAR worse than SWTOR's (as is the extremely dull level grind), the "story" content is almost non-existent and not in the slightest bit interesting. The end-game content has been mediocre since about mid way through expansion 2. Yet Blizzard still charge premium prices with no F2P, then wonder why the recent expansion didn't sell well and people are quitting in bus loads.

 

No new MMO is going to survive without a "free" option any more. They just have to make it work and at the moment there's no real advantage to subscribing if you don't run ops...

Edited December 17, 2012 by NasherUK

[Xemini]

No one can say this game is perfect, it is far from it. But, after reading this article I couldn't help but think to myself that this guy had some serious hate for this game. Now, I don't know that the fact that he used to work for EA had anything to do with this hate he was spewing, but I wouldn't be surprised. Oh, and I can't tell you how tired I am of hearing how BW/EA never told anyone that they had to subscribe to get their cartel coins, as I either read a blog/forum post/watched a livestream video of them telling people this at least 10 different times combined.

 

I just can't help but think that this article was written by someone scorned somehow. I would have enjoyed the article more if it was written with less bias and more facts. The following quote made me chuckle and shake my head at how unprofessional and childish this made the author of this article look.

 

you buy a box, which might have a mount, but probably has a piece of **** in it instead. Literally. Like, an object you right-click on and it smears it on your character's face, just to remind you how bad an idea it was to buy a gamble box.

 

Really?

 

So there is my two cents about that article. While I agree that there are many problems in this game that we all hope will be fixed, I don't think this article gives a fair portrayal of this game.

[Taorus]

It wasn't posted here, I searched prior to posting. What better place to discuss than where consumers of SWTOR can comment on it directly and hopefully those comments will be read and taken into consideration by EAware.

 

A new article has been written about SWTOR's transition to F2P and more, check it out for yourself. Though be warned if you are easily offended you should probably not read it, the author does not pull any punches.

 

http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/183525/the_burning_of_star_wars_the_old_.php

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5581370

 

Ya it was already posted. must not have looked to hard.

But hating on SWTOR is the new Kim Kardashian.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Taorus

[Urael]

Ya it was already posted. must not have looked to hard.

But hating on SWTOR is the new Kim Kardashian.

 

Hmmm ... I searched on "gamasutra" prior to posting and didn't get any hits.

 

When I post 3rd party articles I usually mention the source in the title.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Urael

[iamthehoyden]

There are some inaccurate pieces of information in that article, which damages his credibility for me, but I don't disagree with his assessment that f2p was designed as an extended trial. If you are *only* interested in the story, it's not bad, although the xp nerfs have made that part of the game more grindy. I think he's overestimating the amount of damage it's done to existing subscribers, although 1.6's cartel/Life Day/1 year "celebration" disaster isn't a good sign for the future.

[Taorus]

Hmmm ... I searched on "gamasutra" prior to posting and didn't get any hits.

 

When I post 3rd party articles I usually mention the source in the title.

 

But go figure a former employee of EA bashing a gaming title from EA, How new and bold.

[Taorus]

Hmmm ... I searched on "gamasutra" prior to posting and didn't get any hits.

 

When I post 3rd party articles I usually mention the source in the title.

 

I meant it was already posted here on these forums, my bad wrong link.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5581370

[Urael]

But go figure a former employee of EA bashing a gaming title from EA, How new and bold.

 

Your better that his T. EA was listed as ONE of the companies he worked for with no time period as to when he worked at EA. You also, don't know, because he never stated, how he felt about working there in the article. He seems to have kept his feelings about EA directly (good or bad) out of the article. I will counter with this: Former employee's of EA must wrtie possitive artlcles about EA for the article to be valid! You do see the irony in your post now, right?

Edited December 17, 2012 by Urael

[MarkoJinn]

I think the problems that this game faces today are largely due to rushed release and then the lack of population and slow merging of servers. This is where the majority of people were lost. If those two things didn't happen I guarantee that a lot of those who quit would still be playing today...

 

Imagine if the group finder, customizable interface, server transfers and other features like that were available at the launch... Then the devs would be able to focus on story or PVP or end game in the past year... The way it turned out they spent the last year trying to catch up to what the game was supposed to be at launch...

[Urael]

I think the problems that this game faces today are largely due to rushed release and then the lack of population and slow merging of servers. This is where the majority of people were lost. If those two things didn't happen I guarantee that a lot of those who quit would still be playing today...

 

Imagine if the group finder, customizable interface, server transfers and other features like that were available at the launch... Then the devs would be able to focus on story or PVP or end game in the past year... The way it turned out they spent the last year trying to catch up to what the game was supposed to be at launch...

 

Indeed.

[Spiritinblack]

Your better that his T. EA was listed as ONE of the companies he worked for with no time period as to when he worked at EA. You also, don't know, because he never stated, how he felt about working there in the article. He seems to have kept his feelings about EA directly (good or bad) out of the article. I will counter with this: Former employee's of EA must wrtie possitive artlcles about EA for the article to be valid! You do see the irony in your post now, right?

 

It does not really matter Urael.

 

You can show people all the posts, reviews, and anything related to This game having problems.

 

They will just say the person has something out for the game.

 

But you know Damn well, if the same writer said the game was perfect, they would have it posted on this site within minutes......

[Spiritinblack]

I think the problems that this game faces today are largely due to rushed release and then the lack of population and slow merging of servers. This is where the majority of people were lost. If those two things didn't happen I guarantee that a lot of those who quit would still be playing today...

 

Imagine if the group finder, customizable interface, server transfers and other features like that were available at the launch... Then the devs would be able to focus on story or PVP or end game in the past year... The way it turned out they spent the last year trying to catch up to what the game was supposed to be at launch...

 

/agree

[Taorus]

Your better that his T. EA was listed as ONE of the companies he worked for with no time period as to when he worked at EA. You also, don't know, because he never stated, how he felt about working there in the article. He seems to have kept his feelings about EA directly (good or bad) out of the article. I will counter with this: Former employee's of EA must wrtie possitive artlcles about EA for the article to be valid! You do see the irony in your post now, right?

 

Well...I could flip that first statement back on you. I do understand your anger because of the issue's 1.4 caused you. My heart goes out to you, But posting a link, this link...again. When you and I both know, There is not a single constructive word in that article. This is plain food for those that lurk under bridges;) and forums.

 

BTW and off topic: I do hope you and your family have a Joyous Holiday season...what ever Holiday you celebrate or don't.

[Urael]

It does not really matter Urael.

 

You can show people all the posts, reviews, and anything related to This game having problems.

 

They will just say the person has something out for the game.

 

But you know Damn well, if the same writer said the game was perfect, they would have it posted on this site within minutes......

 

Agreed. Unlike many "hit pieces" on SWTOR this article did offer some solutions to fixing things and wasn't entirely negative on the game. The author did say at the end that he wasn't ready to give up on SWTOR just yet.

 

I'm not writing SWTOR off entirely -- not just yet. To be sure, BioWare could still hire someone who knows what they're doing and give them enough power to make the decisions that need to be made (P.S.: I'm available). But that window of opportunity is closing fast and there may not be enough leadership left at BioWare to act in time.

 

A tich snarky but, not without hope.

[DarthZak]

TL;DR F2P is bad and shouldnt be used as a tool to get subscribers...

 

Then *** is the point of F2P?! Now I agree that BioWare is taking bad steps but F2P and its restrictions arent one of them. What better way than to convince people to pay than say "Look heres a lite version of the game, pay up and you get the better version."

 

I bet some of these people are using programs with trials past its expire date without ever paying to get the full version and if it ever goes down they'll say "Huh.. wonder what happened."

[Taorus]

It does not really matter Urael.

 

You can show people all the posts, reviews, and anything related to This game having problems.

 

They will just say the person has something out for the game.

 

But you know Damn well, if the same writer said the game was perfect, they would have it posted on this site within minutes......

 

Well...if the young man did not already have a history of bashing SWTOR I would agree. But, Since he does he get called out for it.

 

Last article that was posted on these very forums.http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SimonLudgate/20120807/175480/In_Defense_of_SWTORs_Subscription_Launch.php

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SimonLudgate/20110926/90280/Star_Wars_The_Old_Subscription_Model.php

Edited December 17, 2012 by Taorus

[Darka]

SWTOR ran into and identity crisis, what they wanted and what they ended up with seem to be on opposite sides of the room. Things change and devs know that, but seems to me that TOR never really found what it wanted to be. They had a few incidents pre launch, and threw in the towel in less then a year after launch which to many showed that they had given up when they fired everyone.

Things can be saved but attitudes and approach need changing first

 

Also I love how Bioware always gets away with out blame, anything and everything gets blamed on EA regardless of the level of involvement.

 

 

I just hope the next Star Wars MMO learns from the mistakes of SWG and TOR

[Urael]

Well...I could flip that first statement back on you. I do understand your anger because of the issue's 1.4 caused you. My heart goes out to you, But posting a link, this link...again. When you and I both know, There is not a single constructive word in that article. This is plain food for those that lurk under bridges;) and forums.

 

I disagree that nothing was constructive in this article. I didn't read it that way. He echoed what I have been saying on these forums. I feel about SWTOR like Obi-wan expressing his dismay that Anakin fell to the darkside. I'm a huge Star Wars fan since 1977. I was disapointed that SWG didn't take off in it's original form only to be a watered down WoW by the time the NGE came about. I was hoping for more from SWTOR given "Bioware", who prior to this, produced quality products, was the developer. My enthusiasm for SWTOR was waning prior to taking a patch 1.4 to the knee. Things are piling up. To me it seems like EA is trying to sueeze as much cash out of SWTOR before they just let it languish.

 

BTW and off topic: I do hope you and your family have a Joyous Holiday season...what ever Holiday you celebrate or don't.

 

Thanks, Merry Christmas T!

Edited December 17, 2012 by Urael

[sang]

The author does bring up some relevant points, but you can't take this article at face value when the author classifies Operations as 20-man raids. Amateur mistake made by someone who does not fully understand everything about the game. Edited December 17, 2012 by sang

[Spiritinblack]

SWTOR ran into and identity crisis, what they wanted and what they ended up with seem to be on opposite sides of the room. Things change and devs know that, but seems to me that TOR never really found what it wanted to be. They had a few incidents pre launch, and threw in the towel in less then a year after launch which to many showed that they had given up when they fired everyone.

Things can be saved but attitudes and approach need changing first

 

Also I love how Bioware always gets away with out blame, anything and everything gets blamed on EA regardless of the level of involvement.

 

 

I just hope the next Star Wars MMO learns from the mistakes of SWG and TOR

 

I agree Darka.

 

I remember in beta there was one build that seemed perfect. Like they were doing everything right. Then, when the next build came out, everything was so different.

 

I can't say that I know what is better for the game as a whole. But I can say from my perspective, something went very wrong.

[SilentKitty]

Hmm..

 

Not too impressed by the article but then I guess I am not the target since I am happy playing SWTOR

 

He says

 

"My primary focus for monetization would be on additional stuff to sell, rather than unlocking basic functionality. Costumes and mounts, like BioWare already implemented, are an obvious choice, though so far those have been done in very small numbers and with a very unpopular reliance on "gamble boxes" -- you buy a box, which might have a mount, but probably has a piece of **** in it instead. Literally. Like, an object you right-click on and it smears it on your character's face, just to remind you how bad an idea it was to buy a gamble box."

 

Oki, he does not like the boxes because you get things other things than the valuable mounts and weapons. And he does this in a very eloquent manner....

 

But then he goes on to say

 

"The monthly Cartel Coin stipend to subscribers, along with general unlocks of the storyline and legacy, would be the bulk of what being a subscriber would mean. Perks like priority queues to log into your server of choice are a given, and perhaps priority queues in-game with Flashpoints and Warzones. And a bunch of small math boosts to XP and credit fees for services like fast-travel and auction house."

 

If you sub you do get Cartel Coins for free. These could be used on boxes if you like. These boxes sometimes has mounts or weapons of great worth. Other times they have xp-boosts, credits un-locks. The things he apparently thinks are crap, but quite a few things that he would like to have for subscribers are actually available in these boxes. I know, because I have quite a few of them in my cargohold.

 

Hmm... I would have enjoyed a calm article pointing out the positive and negative much more.

Edited December 17, 2012 by SilentKitty

[SNCommand]

Well one thing out of the F2P I consider positive is that it combats the "SWTOR is dead crowd"

 

Had a lot of friends who never tried it because they heard it was a flop and nobody played and they weren't going to risk paying money for a MMO with no players, then when F2P arrived a few of them tried it and found out the game actually does have people playing and actually has a lot of content

[TUXs]

I remember in beta there was one build that seemed perfect. Like they were doing everything right. Then, when the next build came out, everything was so different.

 

3rd from the final?! Where you could mod all your gear at the stations and all quest rewards seemed to be some mod/enh/armoring?

[Master-Nala]

I disagree with the author and the OP. But not on the fundamental point that SWTOR has problems and needs to retool to survive, it does. What I disagree with is this insane insistence that everything is doom and gloom. Where honestly, we have a decent, but ultimately uninspired MMO and 8 very good personal stories.

 

SWTOR faces a number of problems, some of Bioware's making and some that they can never fix. Here's what I think they can fix:

 

1) Slavishly copying WoW - You might say that all games do that to some extent, but that's the same as saying all games follow Ultima Online and EQ. No, what I mean when I say "slavishly" follow is that they take nearly every mechanics idea from WoW. There are very, very few original ideas mechanics wise and many of them are more annoying than anything.

 

2) Falling into the endgame trap - I have never seen a game avoid the trolls when the only thing to do is grind gear to grind more gear.

 

3) Not recognizing the deep need that many have to connect with their characters - This is a major one for me. The story disconnects the player a bit as you can't fully create your own Star Wars story when the story is laid out for you. But more to the point, the devs make it almost painful to customize your character. From the former sky-high mod removal costs to the dearth of outfits that fit the IP, this is a place that SWTOR needs to work on and fast.

 

4) Ignoring what crafting (crew skills) can bring to your game - Properly designed, this should be a legitimate way to develop your character. As it is, it is mostly irrelevant except as supplemental income.

 

5) Making world PvP organic - There are plenty of opportunities to PvP, but hardly anyone does. Why? Well, there's nothing in it for the player. The player is vastly better off queuing for warzones. PvP is disconnected from the game which is sorta weird since we're in a war. Pull world PvP to the forefront. Grant rewards, glory, etc. to those who engage in it, and they will come.

 

6) An 'endgame' story is necessary if they want the game to appeal past level 50. I guess the article author and I agree on that. You can't have one game from 1-50 then expect people to switch gears completely and do something else. Bioware should have had a plan for the war to continue and go forward at 50. I don't think each of the class stories need to continue into perpetuity. But you have to have...and quickly offer something chewy for LORE and story junkies to bite into.

 

Those are the major things I think they can control to a certain extent. SWTOR also suffers from ailments the devs cannot control. To wit:

 

1) It isn't Star Wars Galaxies 2. This game is very different from SWG. SWG had its day and its dead, but its fans haven't let go. I understand, I'm still grieving City of Heroes.

 

2) It isn't what any given player dreamed of. This is a problem that all Star Wars properties suffer. People love this IP and are very possessive of it. I'm sure all of us have this fantasy of how they would change this game if they could. But.... we each have that fantasy and many of our goals would be contradictory. It puts Bioware in an incredible catch-22.

 

3) The hate parade. This game gets denounced for things that other games have done with little fanfare. The hate this game has directed to it is well out of proportion to its actual faults.

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

So to sum up, while I normally defend the devs and feel that many posters are unfair, I think the game has problem that need fixing. I think some will be fixed, other probably not, and a few are impossible.

[Spiritinblack]

Well...if the young man did not already have a history of bashing SWTOR I would agree. But, Since he does he get called out for it.

 

Last article that was posted on these very forums.http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SimonLudgate/20120807/175480/In_Defense_of_SWTORs_Subscription_Launch.php

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SimonLudgate/20110926/90280/Star_Wars_The_Old_Subscription_Model.php

 

It's not just this article, it's any.

 

Not that haters are any better either, because that does not help.

 

I just laugh at people who think this game has done nothing wrong. ( not you ).

 

As I'm sure people have laughed at me when I bring up something that is wrong.

 

Just wish for once Bw/Ea would sit with some of the people on the forums,( Fanboys and haters) so they can see what kind of game they are looking for. And then come to something in the middle.

 

I could give them a list of forumites , who would actually help this game, regardless if they have been called a hater/fanboy.