Just spammed surgical probe for 15 times in a row

[clubdeeko]

Do you not think that operatives/scoundrels have been butt-****** enough? Anymore nerfs to this class would be the final nail in the coffin.

 

I say this as I've had to deal with Nerf after Nerf until I specced into medicine in order to keep playing my beloved operative. I'm praying that we get a deserved buff next update, although I'm not holding my breath. :(

[Piam]

Do you not think that operatives/scoundrels have been butt-****** enough? Anymore nerfs to this class would be the final nail in the coffin.

 

I say this as I've had to deal with Nerf after Nerf until I specced into medicine in order to keep playing my beloved operative. I'm praying that we get a deserved buff next update, although I'm not holding my breath. :(

 

Clarification: DPS operatives have been nerfed since launch. Healing operatives have been relatively buffed, and have been the strongest healing class since 1.2.

[AMKSED]

Clarification: DPS operatives have been nerfed since launch. Healing operatives have been relatively buffed, and have been the strongest healing class since 1.2.

 

It's funny because they were already the strongest prior to 1.2

[Vacarius]

I can spam it against recruit geared attackers too

 

Seriously, any good dps knows to time his cooldowns to smash an operative through the final 30%. It's like stunning a mara using UR (though not always the best idea), you just have to learn how to deal with a classe's advantages. Laziness shouldn't be rewarded.

 

Also, healer operatives were not the strongest healers prior to 1.2 (most would say we were the worst).

Edited December 5, 2012 by Vacarius

[Ravashakk]

1. If you haven't PVP'ed extensively as a healer at 50, then your opinion matters very little here. Last thing we need are a bunch of dps complaining that they didn't kill a good healer.

 

2. If you cripple the healing tree for ops/scoundrels, they will have 0 viable specs for pvp. Conceal/Scrapper is "ok" but outshined by a lot of other dps classes.

 

3. Since bioware, in their infinite wisdom, decided to lower TTK, healing has become harder. You have to use higher healing abilities that cost more of your resource to keep ppl alive. Anyone saying that Ops/scoundrels don't have to worry about energy have never played a decent game before. You will have energy problems when the **** hits the fan. Mainly because you have to make the decision of higher hps or energy efficiency. You can't have both. If the ball carrier is dying, you don't get the luxury of making that decision. On top of that, if you have so much energy stored up, you should be helping the dps focus down targets. This attributes to energy starvation.

 

4. Your example of spamming SP 15 times on a tank is kind of borked. A tank is generally sturdy enough that ANY heal spammed would have kept him alive. It is a gimmick heal. Strong in some situations, dang near useless in others. The ppl that have issues against it, don't know how to counter it. I love killing other operatives/scoundrels off because I know what affects me the most when the table is turned.

[NoTomorrow]

1. If you haven't PVP'ed extensively as a healer at 50, then your opinion matters very little here. Last thing we need are a bunch of dps complaining that they didn't kill a good healer.

 

2. If you cripple the healing tree for ops/scoundrels, they will have 0 viable specs for pvp. Conceal/Scrapper is "ok" but outshined by a lot of other dps classes.

 

3. Since bioware, in their infinite wisdom, decided to lower TTK, healing has become harder. You have to use higher healing abilities that cost more of your resource to keep ppl alive. Anyone saying that Ops/scoundrels don't have to worry about energy have never played a decent game before. You will have energy problems when the **** hits the fan. Mainly because you have to make the decision of higher hps or energy efficiency. You can't have both. If the ball carrier is dying, you don't get the luxury of making that decision. On top of that, if you have so much energy stored up, you should be helping the dps focus down targets. This attributes to energy starvation.

 

4. Your example of spamming SP 15 times on a tank is kind of borked. A tank is generally sturdy enough that ANY heal spammed would have kept him alive. It is a gimmick heal. Strong in some situations, dang near useless in others. The ppl that have issues against it, don't know how to counter it. I love killing other operatives/scoundrels off because I know what affects me the most when the table is turned.

 

That tank would have died if he was healed by any other healer class. Simply because many people cannot play concealment to its full potential does not warrant medicine to stay in its current overpowered form.

 

Take the 4% damage resistance skill alone, this is fricking huge. You have no idea how powerful such a low tier talent is. It basically transforms a 25% DR medium armor target into a 29%, close to the mitigation that heavy armors have.

 

I understand you dont want your faceroll spec to be nerfed, but currently the only threat to ops have is a rage lol'smash, which is an overpowered spec by itself. PTs? They are just an annoyance, i just don't understand how scoundrels can loose to my PT, when their rotation is so damn predictable. And god forgive me for having a guard, as this becomes a complete utter joke. Me and my assassin tank friend can keep groups of 5 people busy for quite some time, effortlessly.

 

May be you are one of those ops that like to go in WZ naked without pvp adrenals, heals and cybertech grenades. Well it's not my fault that you cannot take advantage of all those tools.

 

Oh and if you are saying that free surgical probes are not such a big deal and would not actually save somebody from death, why are you so adamant at keeping it this way? You are lying, you know it is huge and you know it gives you an extreme edge in healing that other healers dont have.

 

And the energy problems? ***** please. I want to see you playing a merc healer in a similar way. A single surgical probe, offers you are free GCD worth of energy regen, and that while you have stim boost active, and the 66 energy probe as a back-up. If you get into trouble that you run out of energy for heals, that it means that you party is taking so much damage that you shouldn't survive anyway.

 

You are probably one of those that thinks that being the only healer in group should be able to keep alive all 4-5 team mates arround him effortlessly. Is this the energy problem moment you are talking about? LOL.

Edited December 5, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Ycoga]

Eh, the <30% part isn't that OP. It's there to get you out of "Execution" ability health range.

 

So why's there no CD? The point is, its spammable - a spammable effect that hard-counters execution abilities.

[NoTomorrow]

So why's there no CD? The point is, its spammable - a spammable effect that hard-counters execution abilities.

 

Here is an example of probably the most powerful execution ability in game:

Sniper Takedown: 40 meters range, can reach up to 5000 crits, but! it's ranged and energy damage. Which means it can miss, get shielded, and mitigated. oh and it has a 15s CD.

 

My assassin friend just pops-up the deflection skill whenever he is close to 30%. Problem solved.

Edited December 5, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[CaptainApop]

So yeah, hits almost twice as hard as a surgical probe would. Interesting.

 

I'll take a 10 second cool down on the proc if my probes hit for 5k sure.

Edited December 5, 2012 by CaptainApop

[NoTomorrow]

So yeah, hits almost twice as hard as a surgical probe would. Interesting.

 

I'll take a 10 second cool down on the proc if my probes hit for 5k sure.

 

that's the damage i get on a sorc, and only in full MM. Expect it to hit for like 3000 in normal conditions and that is like 60% of the times.

[Masarko]

LOL Not every DPS has a 8s mezz,

 

Far as I know thats only a Powertech / Vanguards concern, and if they cant outdps your probes, they are the problem

Edited December 5, 2012 by Masarko

[CaptainApop]

that's the damage i get on a sorc, and only in full MM. Expect it to hit for like 3000 in normal conditions and that is like 60% of the times.

 

And still more than surgical probe under similar non-crit conditions ( around 1.6k -2k).

 

Executes will usually cancel out my probe and then some,putting me low enough for their follow throughs to kill me. That's what they're for. All the probe buys you is one or two GCDs of time. Valuable yeah,it's a chance to run, Los, stun or for a teammate to help. game-breaking? Only against bads.

Anyone you can effectively heal by spamming 15 surgical probes was either taking **** all damage or you got a coincidental chain of crits.

Edited December 5, 2012 by CaptainApop

[RogueNights]

People just need to understand how op healing works..

Generally super efficient, slow, spread out...

They can concentrate it if and only if:

1. They sacrifice efficiency

2. Targets are low health

 

In order to counter it you need to..

1. Not spread damage out over multiple targets

2. Kill focused targets quickly, especially towards the end

 

Would say practically the first thing anyone rolling an op healer learns from lowbie is that op healing w/ out surgical probe is terrible..

[Pvtcarnage]

People just need to understand how op healing works..

Generally super efficient, slow, spread out...

They can concentrate it if and only if:

1. They sacrifice efficiency

2. Targets are low health

 

In order to counter it you need to..

1. Not spread damage out over multiple targets

2. Kill focused targets quickly, especially towards the end

 

Would say practically the first thing anyone rolling an op healer learns from lowbie is that op healing w/ out surgical probe is terrible..

 

I play scoundrel and the good teams do above, focus fire is your friend

[Scotland]

Is this seriously a thread about nerfing healers?

 

Wow.

[Riggz]

Why regranting Tactical Advantage on using surgical probe on <30% hp target does not have a cooldown? Any other powerful proc ability in game has a cd.

 

Can we stop with this easy mode effortless healing of operatives? Its a faceroll no skill healing class. Its so damn easy to survive as an op healer that it is mind-boggling. Every damn rwz will have an op healer, nobody will miss other healers if ops will replace them.

If they nerfed this ability I would unsubscribe

 

Ffs if you think one of the most balanced classes in games needs nerfed you need help. People like you are the reason unneeded nerfs happen

[Scotland]

i bet op isnt even lvl 50 yet.

[Riggz]

Also if you can out dps surgical probe you suck out loud

 

Why don't you, I don't know, stun an operative when he's at 30% hp. No lol that would require too much thought just nerf it.

 

People who want this nerf are in recruit gear (or worse pre 50) and trying to kill by themself an operative. Then want a nerf

[Riggz]

Actually you are right

Nerf operatives

Since you are nerfing our trademark heal

 

Nerf sorc bubbles and AOE heal. Double the cool downs

 

Nerf mercs even more, double their heat cost

 

That way stupid derps like the op and other posters here can finally kill a healer solo in recruit gear. Seriously L2P

 

 

P.s I bet op was in pre 50 PvP against bads. Also show some videos of you taking advantage of the ability. I would LOVE to check that video out.

[MelliMelon]

As Urdnought said, "spamming surgical probe" is not going to keep you alive. They balance pvp to fit high end matches where, tbh, anyone below 30% is likely going to die in your one GCD anyway, so they keep it for PvE I suppose (since it doesn't negatively affect pvp).

 

If it's giving you trouble, save some of your cooldowns or stuns for when that pesky operative gets to that point and just starts running around, or tell some of your friends to switch to them. Good luck!

 

... why do I teach people how to kill me?

[Motoeric]

not true, you are bad, cant keep someone alive just spamming surgical probe in a 1200+ rwz

 

nothing to see here people, simple l2p issue

[TyrellJonez]

I am leveling a OPs healers. You know how i did when i'm spamming?

 

they stun me, then hit their big attacks. Crazy thing eh? They time their attacks and don't just faceroll. Go fig.

[Ravashakk]

That tank would have died if he was healed by any other healer class.

 

Sorc/Sage placing a stun bubble on him? Would have shielded him for double the amount of a SP/EM in half the gcd's. Also when breaking would have halted some of the incoming dmg through CC. Giving him time to land a big heal, where you are shoe-horned into using 1 ability to HOPE for breathing room to get him any higher than 30%. Also when breaking would have halted some of the incoming dmg through CC.

 

Simply because many people cannot play concealment to its full potential does not warrant medicine to stay in its current overpowered form.

 

Lot of ppl play concealment well, but why bring them when you can bring a smasher or pyro for their MUCH higher burst potential and group utility. They fill such a small role in this game, so it doesn't really matter how well you play them in their current form. And if you're talking about node guarding in stealth, why not bring an assassin? Generally speaking, they are going to last longer solo guarding than an concealment operative of equal skill/gear.

 

Every healing class has their own group synergy. You are comparing apples to oranges. Why do mercs get a 25% dmg mitigation shield that increases healing received (when specced) by 20%, and prevents them from being interrupted for the duration? Why do sorcs get force sprint, aoe knockback (with root if specced), and a bubble that is NOT affected by trauma debuff? (Mind you, this accounts for a large portion of their healing done). You can't compare different classes like that on an even level. Healing ops are in a good place. Mercs and sorcs need a buff if anything.

 

Take the 4% damage resistance skill alone, this is fricking huge. You have no idea how powerful such a low tier talent is. It basically transforms a 25% DR medium armor target into a 29%, close to the mitigation that heavy armors have.

 

So now you are complaining about the tree in general? Me thinks you are not an operative and just here to complain about their mechanics.

 

Yes, the 4% dmg reduction is nice. Just like a LOT of classes have great abilities in the first 2 tiers of other trees (game breaking in some cases). Some so powerful in the third tier you easily give your 31 point talent for it. (Unstoppable for tanks)

 

I understand you dont want your faceroll spec to be nerfed, but currently the only threat to ops have is a rage lol'smash, which is an overpowered spec by itself. PTs? They are just an annoyance, i just don't understand how scoundrels can loose to my PT, when their rotation is so damn predictable. And god forgive me for having a guard, as this becomes a complete utter joke. Me and my assassin tank friend can keep groups of 5 people busy for quite some time, effortlessly.

 

Let's see, we have a 25 pt talent that is near worthless in PVP, a heal NO GOOD OPERATIVE uses, and a lack of combat defensive cooldowns (evasion is good, but such a small duration, and don't EVEN mention disappearing act. Not only can you not cast heals while stealthed, the healing that is ticking away and done to you is reduced to 0 for 10 seconds). So we need those abilities to pick up the slack on everything else. It is called "balance".

 

As for PTs, they are the ONLY dps class that, if geared, can burst down a healer without having to interrupt/cc them. And smashers? Not going into that. So the 2 classes that do well against us comprise 75% of war zones these days. GG

 

In reference to you and your assassin friend.....permission granted to play against dps worth a damn. Hell, if 2 of those 5 were smashers you'd be taking a dirt nap. Or are you insinuating you can pull the 2-3k hps required to keep you both up? Yes, I've facerolled against 5 bad players before without guard, but didn't hold it as any achievement because they were terribad. 3 coordinated dps will kill you and your tank. Ones that know to attack the tank to bypass his taunting, and cc/interrupt you or just pull out a lot of aoe burst like smash.

 

IMay be you are one of those ops that like to go in WZ naked without pvp adrenals, heals and cybertech grenades. Well it's not my fault that you cannot take advantage of all those tools.

 

Oh and if you are saying that free surgical probes are not such a big deal and would not actually save somebody from death, why are you so adamant at keeping it this way? You are lying, you know it is huge and you know it gives you an extreme edge in healing that other healers dont have.

 

And the energy problems? ***** please. I want to see you playing a merc healer in a similar way. A single surgical probe, offers you are free GCD worth of energy regen, and that while you have stim boost active, and the 66 energy probe as a back-up. If you get into trouble that you run out of energy for heals, that it means that you party is taking so much damage that you shouldn't survive anyway.

 

You are probably one of those that thinks that being the only healer in group should be able to keep alive all 4-5 team mates arround him effortlessly. Is this the energy problem moment you are talking about? LOL.

 

IMay be you are one of those ops that like to go in WZ naked without pvp adrenals, heals and cybertech grenades. Well it's not my fault that you cannot take advantage of all those tools.

 

That's all good, but I'd like to know your secret on using those when you get chain stunned for 5-8 seconds everytime your resolve bar resets.

 

IOh and if you are saying that free surgical probes are not such a big deal and would not actually save somebody from death, why are you so adamant at keeping it this way? You are lying, you know it is huge and you know it gives you an extreme edge in healing that other healers dont have.

 

Never said it wasn't strong. The class is balanced around this ability being this way with talents. If your team can't work around it then it is YOU that needs to fix yourself, not changing a spec. You were not CC'ed for 23 seconds while spamming SP.....NEWSFLASH any healer that isn't being bothered will put out great healing numbers. In fact, sorcs will put out MORE throughput if not bothered. It is a tradeoff.

 

And the energy problems? ***** please.

 

I do not have substantial energy problems, because through experience I've learned how to manage it properly.

 

I want to see you playing a merc healer in a similar way. A single surgical probe, offers you are free GCD worth of energy regen, and that while you have stim boost active, and the 66 energy probe as a back-up. If you get into trouble that you run out of energy for heals, that it means that you party is taking so much damage that you shouldn't survive anyway.

 

You are probably one of those that thinks that being the only healer in group should be able to keep alive all 4-5 team mates arround him effortlessly. Is this the energy problem moment you are talking about? LOL.

 

You got increasingly whiny as your post went on. I'm going to ask you to back up your claims with some screenshots. Let's see some of your games where you facerolled everyone on your op healer.

[Tfranco]

I agree with this ^ Please put Commandos back to pre 1.2 levels when we were actually able to keep people alive and ourselves. The sentinel damage outputs in 50 warzones are far greater than our healing for the most part.

 

I'm a commando healer, I keep people alive just fine in wzs. I'm not pulling 500k heals a wz or anything, usually 350k-400k but I'm only in bm gear. Not to say I wouldn't like a slight buff, specifically making...I can't remember the name the 10 charges of healing probe thing, but take away the ammo cost again. That and let us self target hammer shot!! That would help a lot with self healing.

I have a scoundrel, though only 36ish, and I in no way feel over powered. I don't have all my spells yet either though.

It still seems like they aren't as OP as they used to be.

[Theodulus]

That tank would have died if he was healed by any other healer class. Simply because many people cannot play concealment to its full potential does not warrant medicine to stay in its current overpowered form.

What? A command healer is damn near immortal paired with a decent tank.