why is pvp not getting better, ever

[Polymerize]

Community

 

Hands down the worst pvp community ever seen in the online gaming history.

Cant really complain since we are talking about a game catered to sw fans, pve based etc...so from the start we could guess that the pvp wouldn't be outstanding compared to what is out there(talking about competitive pvp)

 

BUT, the community is proving to be one of the biggest "walls" to not let pvp in the game get better.

 

If you compare what you find on this forums to other online (serious) gaming pvp forums you will see how these swtor pvp forums are a joke.

 

Everything that is asked,argued, discussed, explained and DEFENDED goes against competitive online pvp basics.And the thing is, its a majority we are talking about here, and that will drag the pvp quality down, not contribute to the devs or the game development and in the end, ultimately, will kill pvp and have somewhat an effect in the game itself(even though the pvp community is a minority in this kind of mmo)

 

If you go through some pages on this threads you can find things like:

 

"pls make it easier to get gear" kind of welfare begs..

"dont make it cross servers because that will RUIN the community"..(lol)

"Teaming up is wrong and shouldn't be allowed"

"keyboard turning and clicking are NOT BAD"

"pls dont put rated pvp ingame"(before rated wzs got here)

"pls dont put arenas ingame" (i assure you they will get here to..)

"pls dont put rating requirements on gear"

"PLS keep up this system where "time" is rewarded and not "skill"

"Swtor pvp has a lot pf depth, specs are ahrd to play, classes are hard to master" (lmao)

etc

 

etc

 

etc

 

Everything aimed at an exaggerated non competitive casual pvp sistem.If we as a community dont ask for it to be competitive, ti wont ever be, and soon it will become boring and stall...Casual gamers can co-exist with competitive ones btu there has to be a difference, and perks for both sides.

 

You CAN be CASUAL AND COMPETITIVE...take wow for exmaple..you can get top pvp titles playing 10 arenas per week...thjats like..2 hours TOPS of game play per week..it cant get more casual then that mmo wise..Still it remains competitive..rewarding titles and gear upon accomplishments..(no this is not a swtor vs wow thread..dont turn it into it, it was jsut an example)

 

If we keep going liek this this community wont ever evolve..the gameplay will keep going down..epopel will go from playing bad or below average to even worse...etc..

 

 

 

(sorry for my english)

 

First time seeing this thread.

 

I concur with most of this.

[Kaedusz]

To OP.

 

You want competitive pvp? Do what i do.Play Starcraft 2 and do sports in real life.This game is about immersion,Star Wars,story lines and casual fun,not competitive pvp or competitive anything.

rpgs and mmorpgs make poor competitive pvp games, in general.

* * *

 

Also its funny when you say ''other games out there'', because there are *no* other games out there with good competitive pvp except Starcraft 2/1 and 1 or 2 mobas.If you are refering to WoW then all your arguments are invalid,because clearly you are ignorant.

 

PS:though i agree with the backpeddle,keyboard turning and keybinding point.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Kaedusz

[sirullrich]

UGLYMRJ why can I not message you?

[sirullrich]

To OP.

 

You want competitive pvp? Do what i do.Play Starcraft 2 and do sports in real life.This game is about immersion,Star Wars,story lines and casual fun,not competitive pvp or competitive anything.

rpgs and mmorpgs make poor competitive pvp games, in general.

* * *

 

Also its funny when you say ''other games out there'', because there are *no* other games out there with good competitive pvp except Starcraft 2/1 and 1 or 2 mobas.If you are refering to WoW then all your arguments are invalid,because clearly you are ignorant.

 

PS:though i agree with the backpeddle,keyboard turning and keybinding point.

 

This guy. LOL's. So if something's quality is not high we can't make it better? Instead of trying to improve on something we like we need to just stop and not do anything about it? What I don't get is that the OP just wants to have better PVP and I don't see why there all these haters about someone trying to make something they like better. You say sports for competition, but even sports if something is not working properly they try to fix it. Football use to be the least favorite major sport, but now is king. If football use the same idea of "if it's not good lets not change anything and lets all just join the basketball team" would football be around now. The NFL knew that the product they had was good so they kept working at it until it became popular. What if they just quit and we had no football anymore?

[Invictusthetaru]

Holy necro.

[Xeroborn]

the simple fact of the matter is swtor failed (in the eyes of EA) and you can tell the effort has only been half-hearted to improve the game.

 

/thread

[Individual]

Community

 

Hands down the worst pvp community ever seen in the online gaming history.

Cant really complain since we are talking about a game catered to sw fans, pve based etc...so from the start we could guess that the pvp wouldn't be outstanding compared to what is out there(talking about competitive pvp)

 

BUT, the community is proving to be one of the biggest "walls" to not let pvp in the game get better.

 

If you compare what you find on this forums to other online (serious) gaming pvp forums you will see how these swtor pvp forums are a joke.

 

Everything that is asked,argued, discussed, explained and DEFENDED goes against competitive online pvp basics.And the thing is, its a majority we are talking about here, and that will drag the pvp quality down, not contribute to the devs or the game development and in the end, ultimately, will kill pvp and have somewhat an effect in the game itself(even though the pvp community is a minority in this kind of mmo)

 

If you go through some pages on this threads you can find things like:

 

"pls make it easier to get gear" kind of welfare begs..

"dont make it cross servers because that will RUIN the community"..(lol)

"Teaming up is wrong and shouldn't be allowed"

"keyboard turning and clicking are NOT BAD"

"pls dont put rated pvp ingame"(before rated wzs got here)

"pls dont put arenas ingame" (i assure you they will get here to..)

"pls dont put rating requirements on gear"

"PLS keep up this system where "time" is rewarded and not "skill"

"Swtor pvp has a lot pf depth, specs are ahrd to play, classes are hard to master" (lmao)

etc

 

etc

 

etc

 

Everything aimed at an exaggerated non competitive casual pvp sistem.If we as a community dont ask for it to be competitive, ti wont ever be, and soon it will become boring and stall...Casual gamers can co-exist with competitive ones btu there has to be a difference, and perks for both sides.

 

You CAN be CASUAL AND COMPETITIVE...take wow for exmaple..you can get top pvp titles playing 10 arenas per week...thjats like..2 hours TOPS of game play per week..it cant get more casual then that mmo wise..Still it remains competitive..rewarding titles and gear upon accomplishments..(no this is not a swtor vs wow thread..dont turn it into it, it was jsut an example)

 

If we keep going liek this this community wont ever evolve..the gameplay will keep going down..epopel will go from playing bad or below average to even worse...etc..

 

 

 

(sorry for my english)

 

It's not up to the community to make it better. It's up to the developers. Many many times I've seen good posts on critical aspects of pvp, and many many times I've seen Bioware go the wrong route with the classes despite the feedback they recieve on these forums. Look at the Mercs / Commandos in pvp for example. They have been the worse class for pvp for over a year now, and Bioware has barely lifted a finger to do anything about. it. Sure, they've made some adjustments, but they put their adjustments in the wrong areas that don't need them. How many times this last year did we see warrior buffs, when warriors were the last class that needed buffs? Then you have people wondering, like yourself, why we are upset.

[DarthRaika]

Early on I thought the pvp community was pretty good but the lack of premade matching along with the low skill softcaps and the strength of certain compositions really killed pvp.

 

I knew a decent number of skilled pvprs early on but many of them complained as I did at the horrible matchmaking system. I premaded with them and almost every match was just a complete runover. Good pvprs hate constant easy wins even more than constant horrible losses.

 

This same thing that drove many skilled pvprs away drew in a lot of mediocre pvprs who were willing to gear up the "correct" classes and form good composition premades. They knew they would fight mostly pugs and win most of their matches. This also made many casuals who don't understand pvp think that these premaders were skilled players and it fed these premaders' egos.

 

What made this even easier was the guard mechanic along with low skill softcaps. I actually do believe swtor has some decent skill involved at the TOP lvls but it is very easy to meet the softcaps once you have some gear and especially if you are in premade.

 

Vguard and sent are great examples of this. Any idiot with gear can do very well on these classes if they are in a premade and/or their team is not being pressured. This makes premades all the more alluring. However, if these classes are not in a premade and are being extremely pressured then you will notice a big difference between the great and the mediocre players. What is even funnier is many of the "good" vguards just dot spread and don't stack nades on important people (cause they will get less aoe if they do that!!!!) and most sents won't smash that healer at 50% when they have 2 other randoms at 100% they could smash.

 

Add the fact that premades can make up 50% of a team and also that super q'n is actually very easy to do then you should be able to see how bad this is for a community.

[Ottoattack]

There are several issues discussed in the forum:

 

1- The game desperately needs a match making system, based on valor, LOE rating or something else. This will help match equally skilled and geared people in WZs. Unfortunately, with the current population on the servers its not possible to achieve this goal. Without cross que it would not work.

 

2- Exclusivity of gear. This should not and would not exist. Gear should be accessible to everyone who works towards getting it. You remove the carrot people will stop stop playing. There should be no advantage that you are running with an 8 man team while others are not. I am highly geared and reasonably skilled on my dps and healer. I usually lead most WZs in dps, hps and objectives. I consider myself in the top 3% to 5%. My guild does not PvP much, thus running ranked is semi impossible. For me to penetrate the top 1% means I have to switch guild and probably buy a gaming mouse, and invest much more time in the game. I am not interested in either. If the game restricts the top tier gear for the top 0.5% to 1%, most people, including me will unsubscribe.

 

3- Game should not be tailored to casuals. Why not? Hardcore gamers represent less than 0.5% of the population. Why should BW only target them? Trust and believe, if it was more profitable for BW to make the game geared towards hardcore gamers, they would have. Obviously this is not the case (and never will be for any game).

 

4- Competitive system needs to be improved. I agree. If the ultimate competitive system is to run RWZ, no question that currently competion is not that interesting. The game needs a tournament system for that to work, and again cross server ques.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Ottoattack

[DarkPharohEclip]

It is only going to get worse, especially when they make pvp gear obsolete by adding that stupid bolster... I totally agree with you, I am beginning to think that these people are just trolls that dislike pvp, and only do raids or other PVE flash points in the game.

 

Making any asanine post in an attempt to pursuade the devs, which are very easily swayed, to cater to them and make pvp as boring and ****** in this game as they could.

 

Why wouldn't anyone want cross server warzones? Faster ques, more people, different people, and the increased chance of wins.

Secondly, it is already easy enough to get gear in pvp, it took me about a week to get full wh gear. Not to mention that ridiculous bolster thing we got coming up in 2.0 unless the devs grow a brain and realize that they are making the end game less of an end game for pvpers, and certainly will lose subs because of it.

People will decide there is no point to pvp anymore, or they don't need to pvp as much because anybody can go in the warzone and have the same gear basically with bolster.

 

A true pvper would never make threads QQing like the ones that you gave us examples of, so I can only determine that these people are not real pvpers, and are trolls or anti- pvp players who want to ruin the pvp aspect of this game, if they aren't in any of those categories, then they could possibly be just players that really have no clue how to play this game.

 

Oh i just noticed you said something about Time vs skill.... what does that mean?

 

If you had any skill at all in this game, you would have enough sense to buy your War Hero gear in advance before you reached lvl 50, or used that recruit gear for a week until you can get the wh gear, which is pretty much the same as EWH gear. that small percentage really doesn't make that much of a difference, if you know your class you will know how to beat the player... as long as you don't go in there with all greens , or some pve gear with no expertise in it.

I did just fine when I first hit lvl 50 at pvping, and never once complained about other players, maybe you should just learn your role and how to play it? If you take gear out of pvp, than there will be alot less people pvping and alot less warzones.. most players already have full wh or ewh gear the game has been out for over a year now. Everyone is pretty much on a level playing field if you have any clue how to gear up your toon.. This kinda posts are what piss me off, I agree with most of your points , but then you start defending that ridiculous bolster idea.. Please, part of the fun of pvping is progressing your toon... I know I am the underdog in a way, but I don't ***** because I take out my targets just as easy, but there are alot of other players with full ewh , when I only have some WH and some EWH... I still take out my targets with little problems, why? Because it is skills. Also as a dps operative I swap out some expertise in favor of other mods, mainly the 2 weapon crystals for power, and 2 pieces of rakata gear for the 15 percent back stab bonus...OFC I do put 2 of the wh mods back in both pieces, but I lose out on alot of expertise so mine only sits at 1208 atm.. but I am doing just fine.

Edited March 12, 2013 by DarkPharohEclip

[DarkPharohEclip]

Bolster is going to ruin pvp in this game... Tons of people will quit when they realize they no longer have that extra incentive to do their warzones, people enjoy gearing up their toons and modding it up, perfecting their gear. Progression is very important to a real pvp player, because that is their end game. You add something like bolster it takes all the incentive out of gearing up your toon, why bother when you can throw on some empty shells and go into the warzone and have all your stats that you wanted to earn just handed to you.

 

It makes the pvp boring. It's already boring enough as it is doing match after match, they really should add a real pvp planet with real open world objectives. Go ahead and take away the gear devs by adding bolster, you will suck the fun right out of the game.. It is a joy when you finally get enough comms to buy that new blaster, but what is the point of it if 2.0 comes out and they still have that bolster crap in place? I want to earn my gear not be given the gear, I don't give a damn how many maxed out players I have to run through to get it.

[MotorCityMan]

Blah Blah

 

Necro a troll thread. Blah Blah

[DarkPharohEclip]

Necro a troll thread. Blah Blah

 

w/e the case is here, whether this thread was necro'd by somebody the OP does have some good points, but then again if they are in favor of a bolster like system at lvl 55 then, I cannot completely agree with this man.

 

I think I should get some support from the pvp ocmmunity on this , aswell, it is our end game that they are trying to make obsolete.

[dcgregorya]

Gear being a factor in PVP by its very nature makes it non-competitive. Point me at any other serious competitive PVP game that does this.

 

All the games acclaimed, watched as an e-sport, or otherwise considered to be professional competitive online games do not have the concept of "I was here longer, I get 20% more stats than you."

 

And as to the guy saying people will 'mass quit because they won't need their dailys/weeklies' - please do. They're exactly the people I generally don't want in my matches anyway.

Edited March 12, 2013 by dcgregorya

[DarkPharohEclip]

Gear being a factor in PVP by its very nature makes it non-competitive. Point me at any other serious competitive PVP game that does this.

 

All the games acclaimed, watched as an e-sport, or otherwise considered to be professional competitive online games do not have the concept of "I was here longer, I get 20% more stats than you."

 

And as to the guy saying people will 'mass quit because they won't need their dailys/weeklies' - please do. They're exactly the people I generally don't want in my matches anyway.

 

This is not an e-sport, this is an MMORPG where gear progression is one of the key components.. Part of the joy of playing these games is to watch your toon progress and buy new and better gear, and show it off to your guildies.

 

Getting kind of tired of hearing the same old arguements. E-sport this, skill that, competitive....

You are competing to win so yea it is a competition. Not at all hard to gear up your toon in this game, and I thought that was a major part of the fun and end game for a pvper. Not sure if you really are a pvper, because if you were you wouldn't have a problem with gearing up your toon and you probably wouldn't have that much trouble taking out somebody with a tad bit better gear than yourself. Not to mention the fact that they already give you starter gear which isn't too bad.

 

Go play a game like Counter Strike or something, what is the point of this game if everybody is the same.. nobody is ever gonna be the same, because classes are all different.. people know or do not know how to play their toons.

 

I rape players who are full ewh with no problem, and I like the fact that I owned a player who outgeared me, it was more of a challenge.

 

I think some people are looking for the easy way out, the free pass, the easy win.. but once they realize that the gear wasn't that much of a difference they just sucked, it will sink into their heads and maybe they will look at how to improve , or they will just quit the pvp and go back to pve. Bro, if gear was an issue for you at lvl 50 on live, then I hate to see what happens when everybody has bolster... I never once had a problem even when I first hit 50 , I was ****** ppl and winning warzones, so maybe it's just you and not the gear. The difference isn't that huge. You want a crutch so that you don't have to participate in the pvp endgame aspect of progressing your character, but when they give you the crutch you are gonna realize it wasn't the gear, it was just you the whole time.

 

The real skill is knowing how to play with that small disadvantage and winning the game... not like they don't give out recruit gear, and not like it takes long to get the war hero gear at all.

 

As far as pointing you to any other game that does this. Try all of the MMORPG games, they ALL do the system we have on live right now.. Yes, MMORPGs are about gearing up your toon, big shocker there huh?

Edited March 12, 2013 by DarkPharohEclip

[dcgregorya]

This is not an e-sport, this is an MMORPG where gear progression is one of the key components.. Part of the joy of playing these games is to watch your toon progress and buy new and better gear, and show it off to your guildies.

 

Sorry, I was posting on the topic of the thread. I'm sorry that for you, the entire point of the game is "OOOH SHINY I GOTS NEW SWORD".

 

Which camp are you in, the camp of the OP that only gear progressions are "competitive" or the camp of "DERP I NEED NEW GEAR OR MY LIFE IS EMPTY?"

 

FWIW : " think some people are looking for the easy way out, the free pass, the easy win.. but once they realize that the gear wasn't that much of a difference they just sucked" - the gear difference between augmented EWH and recruit is *between 30 and 50%*. That's who is looking for the easy win. And also FWIW, I own in recruit gear . I just think its a dumb and self-defeating aspect of this games PVP.

Edited March 12, 2013 by dcgregorya

[DarkPharohEclip]

Sorry, I was posting on the topic of the thread. I'm sorry that for you, the entire point of the game is "OOOH SHINY I GOTS NEW SWORD".

 

Which camp are you in, the camp of the OP that only gear progressions are "competitive" or the camp of "DERP I NEED NEW GEAR OR MY LIFE IS EMPTY?"

 

I'm in the camp of , this game has no real open world pvp, the warzones blow donkey dick, and the PVE players are so rude, that I would rather gear up my toon through pvp... Yes, I do like something new and nice to look forward to.

 

I don't care so much about outgearing players, I just like to earn something in pvp. Wouldn't care if they opened up some kind of arena seperate from warzones where gear didn't matter, just don't take away the end game for pvpers that like gearing up their toons.

Edited March 12, 2013 by DarkPharohEclip

[Caeliux]

Simple fix, add arena 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5

 

/end thread

 

 

ps. Also add a bigger warzone kinda like Wintergrasp in WoW, 40 vs 40 and make it epic with like speeders and ships.

 

k thanks

[DarkPharohEclip]

 

FWIW : " think some people are looking for the easy way out, the free pass, the easy win.. but once they realize that the gear wasn't that much of a difference they just sucked" - the gear difference between augmented EWH and recruit is *between 30 and 50%*. That's who is looking for the easy win. And also FWIW, I own in recruit gear . I just think its a dumb and self-defeating aspect of this games PVP.

 

Yes, but you do realize that some people actually like to have a set of goals to accomplish in the game. If there isn't a goal than they feel like it is just repeatition. I have a goal, that is gearing up my toon. That is what keeps me pvping and playing the game.

 

Certainly they could add some kind of arena where gear does not matter for people that like it that way.

 

No I'm not looking for an easy win, I am outgeared by most of the people I am in the warzone with. I just don't notice the problem I guess because I know how to play my class. Yes I do have wh and a few EWH pieces, and my goal is to finish gearing up my toon and watching my hit damage go up and my toon grow stronger. Of course most other players that know what they are doing , even in recruit gear can take me down if they know how to fight, and most people in this game already have all their ewh gear. If they don't it doesn't take long to get wh gear which is so close to ewh gear the difference is negligible.

 

I just don't get why you fail to grasp why people like gear progression. I guess if PVE is your end game preference than I can see why you wouldn't.. See you have something to look forward to, all I have is the repeatitive warzones,

 

Why would I want to que up for an Operation for some gear that isn't gonna do me any good in pvp, especially when the player base and pve community is extremely rude in this game.

 

The difference is pvp is a side game for you, pvp is my end game. Let's face it the pvp endgame isn't very good in TOR.. I am hoping it gets better, but I doubt it wont for a long time at least.

 

What's gonna be my end game in pvp if they take away gear progression. Screen shotting my wins and posting it on the forums? Who cares about that.

Self defeating is gonna be when the pvp player base gets bored of the same old warzones and just move on to the next game, that's gonna be self defeat right there, by taking away the carrot on the stick that alot of players enjoy chasing after.

Edited March 12, 2013 by DarkPharohEclip

[DariusCalera]

Simple fix, add arena 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5

 

/end thread

 

 

ps. Also add a bigger warzone kinda like Wintergrasp in WoW, 40 vs 40 and make it epic with like speeders and ships.

 

k thanks

 

While a WIntergrasp type area would be cool, I really don't think that the game engine could handle it.

 

Fought in an assault in the Black Hole where the Imps and Pubs kept pushing each other back and forth. It had, maybe, 20 people on each side and the lag was absolutely terrible. Half the time you couldn't see what you were shooting at because they hadn't been rendered yet.

 

Still like the idea in theory though.

[Givemedanger]

It sounded like QQ about casuals and them being the the evil persons in this game. Much of the QQ from casuals stem from them being forced to meet the elite that completely rolls them. Some complains about premades and some about gear to find a reason for their apparent suckage. We would see less QQ if the bads only met bads and the good people only met the good people. Until x-server and matchmaking everyone are just going to have to enjoy the QQ from exactly everyone.

 

I agree with u 100%.

 

The OP says some bs.

 

NO. There will be no arenas.

 

Luckily SWTOR is NOT WoW.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Givemedanger

[Enexemander]

Advocates for serious competitive pvp.

 

Holds WoW up as a standard to strive for.

 

What a silly, silly little thread.

[ripamorame]

Raising the cap on pvp games for f2p players would be nice also a sub even i think 3 a week is very low and doesn't offer a real taster how is a pvp player base supposed to grown when the f2p/trial gives them little to no feel.

[Katszc]

I agree with u 100%.

 

The OP says some bs.

 

NO. There will be no arenas.

 

Luckily SWTOR is NOT WoW.

 

Arena ain't WoW exclusive.

 

And don't think I've ever seen a Dev ever blatantly say they will never implement an Arena.

 

-Someone who hopes they will, some day, add an Arena.

[sirullrich]

Raising the cap on pvp games for f2p players would be nice also a sub even i think 3 a week is very low and doesn't offer a real taster how is a pvp player base supposed to grown when the f2p/trial gives them little to no feel.

 

I agree that it should be raised to alteast 9 so they can finish weekly. But if they really want to pvp more they can just buy weekly wz passes.