Slackfumasta Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 If only it were that easy but eventually if you want to participate in endgame you'll have to use them or you won't be allowed to raid...they are unnecessary, they take the skill out off the game and imo only lazy people who want to press one button while they watch something on tv as they raid want addons. Completely incorrect. Addons do not move you out of the fire. Addons do not interrupt boss abilities. Addons do not pick targets to heal. Addons do not pick the target you need to burn down. In short, addons do not allow you to watch TV while raiding. Quit spreading incorrect information about addons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroPlus Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 ... As for the meters, I have a suggestion: an <End Flashpoint/Operation Report>, just like in the end of Warzones. Voilá, you can consult who's doing their jobs right. DPS, Healing, Protection, MVP vote also (why not?)... It's all there. +1 Funny how a great suggestion in the very FIRST post got drowned out in the usual add-ons debate. The above suggestion would give the "I want to improve myself so I need add-ons" crowd what they want. Or would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slackfumasta Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 +1 Funny how a great suggestion in the very FIRST post got drowned out in the usual add-ons debate. The above suggestion would give the "I want to improve myself so I need add-ons" crowd what they want. Or would it? Actually, it wouldn't. Total damage means nothing, as anybody who PvPs or has played any other MMO could tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenthletter Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I love the people using Gearscore as their reasoning for no Addons. You do realize that WoW implemented Gearscore into the game right? You cannot queue for certain dungeons unless your average ilvl is a certain threshold. It ensures that your character is geared enough to not be a liability in the dungeon. Even this system can be gamed however, by using pvp gear, or higher ilvl gear that is not proper for your class (it looks at the best item in your inventory for each slot, so for example a Mage could have a Leather Agility Helmet of high ilvl and a Green Int Helm of a low ilvl and it would count the leather item for purposes of dungeon entry.) The tool is not perfect, but it does its job well in most cases. Gearscore did this exact same thing but assigned an arbitrary number to your gear and gems/enchants instead of just taking the average ilvl. It also did its job well, provided the raid leader used it properly, which most people did not. Gearscore is no longer used in WoW because it is no longer needed, WoW has a version of it in the game already. In short, you cannot blame addons for their misuse or abuse by players. Using this abuse as a basis to not have them in the game at all is asinine. I suppose we should ban hammers as well because some nutcase in Alabama bludgeoned his wife to death with one. Clearly the hammer is the problem, not the psychotic wielding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatsalightsaver Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I love the people using Gearscore as their reasoning for no Addons. You do realize that WoW implemented Gearscore into the game right? You cannot queue for certain dungeons unless your average ilvl is a certain threshold. It ensures that your character is geared enough to not be a liability in the dungeon. Even this system can be gamed however, by using pvp gear, or higher ilvl gear that is not proper for your class (it looks at the best item in your inventory for each slot, so for example a Mage could have a Leather Agility Helmet of high ilvl and a Green Int Helm of a low ilvl and it would count the leather item for purposes of dungeon entry.) The tool is not perfect, but it does its job well in most cases. Gearscore did this exact same thing but assigned an arbitrary number to your gear and gems/enchants instead of just taking the average ilvl. It also did its job well, provided the raid leader used it properly, which most people did not. Gearscore is no longer used in WoW because it is no longer needed, WoW has a version of it in the game already. In short, you cannot blame addons for their misuse or abuse by players. Using this abuse as a basis to not have them in the game at all is asinine. I suppose we should ban hammers as well because some nutcase in Alabama bludgeoned his wife to death with one. Clearly the hammer is the problem, not the psychotic wielding it. ^ Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss....sssssssssss Edited January 20, 2012 by Whatsalightsaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroPlus Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Actually, it wouldn't. Total damage means nothing, as anybody who PvPs or has played any other MMO could tell you. Of course it doesn't! So why insist that having an add-on that measures it is needed? Someone may be assigned the job of interrupting, or kiting a mob, or any other thing that involves low total damage/DPS. If that person does the job well and the boss dies, why measure their damage contribution? On that point: if the boss dies, does it really matter if JoeBH did more/less damage than JackJugg? If one of them is a dick, and you don't want him in your raid group then don't invite him and tell him he's a dick. Don't look for excuses. Even when the boss doesn't die and no mistakes were made, (standing in fire, not interrupting, not executing tactics), it just means that the GROUP needs to prepare better. It doesn't mean that add-ons are needed so blame can be placed. If a boss enrages at the 10 minute mark, it means that it was designed to be killable in 10 minutes time. There is no *need* to kill it in 6 minutes time. Going back to the OP's suggestion, it would give an overall view of what had been done. Remember, the suggestions states "DPS, Healing, Protection"... not just total damage. That would be more than enough to see if more DPS/Healing/Protection was needed and allow the GROUP to prepare better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noevra Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) No addons.... Come one, they help the game out, and increase the fun, they help you manage your bank, bags, and even create your own UI. Foks saying addons is the reason people leave a MMO are forgetting WOW is/was a game that run 7 YEARS! You didnt leave because of the addons you left because of Star Wars... I my self find it annoying that there arent addons in this game to a extend that im already getting borred with it, and making me think of wow agan... Edited January 22, 2012 by Noevra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexis Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 again, Addon's suck. No one should have to depend on outside resources to enjoy the game. All of the tools and features you guys want should be built into the default UI. That way when they update the game, they update its features too. No more patch day broke my ui blues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubblegumYeti Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No addons please. Some of the addons in "other" MMOs almost play the game by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubblegumYeti Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Completely incorrect. Addons do not move you out of the fire. Addons do not interrupt boss abilities. Addons do not pick targets to heal. Addons do not pick the target you need to burn down. In short, addons do not allow you to watch TV while raiding. Quit spreading incorrect information about addons. Enjoy pressing buttons when an addon tells you. Rise of the machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiHeilos Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Of course it doesn't! So why insist that having an add-on that measures it is needed? Because a half decent log parser doesn't just tell you how much damage you did. It tells you what skills were used and in what order, how often you crit, how much damage you take and mitigate, how much you got healed, what skills you got hit by, and a lot of other useful information that min/maxers and raid leaders want to be able to find out what went wrong and how to make it right. Someone may be assigned the job of interrupting, or kiting a mob, or any other thing that involves low total damage/DPS. If that person does the job well and the boss dies, why measure their damage contribution? What if the boss doesn't die? We just smash our heads against it repeatedly while someone sits in the back of the raid with sub-par dps and no way to tell? Even when the boss doesn't die and no mistakes were made, (standing in fire, not interrupting, not executing tactics), it just means that the GROUP needs to prepare better. It doesn't mean that add-ons are needed so blame can be placed. If the boss didn't die, someone made a mistake or wasn't prepared. The whole group shouldn't suffer because of a few people sucking. Enjoy pressing buttons when an addon tells you. Rise of the machines. All PvE encounters are scripted, you press a certain button when an on screen prompt informs you that it needs to be pressed. If you think otherwise, then you have been brainwashed by the machines. Edited January 23, 2012 by KaiHeilos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlurcher Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Honestly, give me Recount, a CombatLog, clickable Nameplates, a better Cooldown Tracker and 2 more QuickSlots per Bar and i'm fine. Oh yeah and a effin target of target frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubblegumYeti Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 All PvE encounters are scripted, you press a certain button when an on screen prompt informs you that it needs to be pressed. If you think otherwise, then you have been brainwashed by the machines. Ha so we agree that you don't need pluging for that. Close this thread now plz. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRaevin Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Stop being scared your DPS or Healing isn't good enough and learn how to play your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thyferra Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I would rather see Bioware implements all these tools themself then someone from the outside does it. This way Bioware could give us information like our dps but keep other stuff hidden from us that would make encounters too predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostAgent Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 uh... no? The only conclusion I can derive from every person that hates addons, is that they don't want to be called out for their poor performance and be carried. We left a guild because a GM was so bad at their job, that it dragged the entire party down with them. Unfortunately, we don't have an addon to prove this, so we had to use a companion. How so? Well we kept hitting the enrage at 30% HP remaining on the bulwark boss in HM D7. We had a hunch that it was him, but could not definitively prove it. Instead, we dropped him, used my companion Vette, in green gear, and tried the boss again. Guess what? The boss enraged at 10%HP remaining instead... She did 20% MORE damage than an actual player. If we had recount, we wouldn't have to go through this period and would find out right away who was holding us back. A freakin NPC in GREENS outdps'd an actual player... is it really fair to subject the other 3 players to one player's fail? I for one want a tool that can show me exactly what is going on, who is doing their share of contribution and who is outright just sitting back on the backs of other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yummymango Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) uh... no? The only conclusion I can derive from every person that hates addons, is that they don't want to be called out for their poor performance and be carried. . ^ This. I was healing Hard mode Black talon pug 2 days ago and we were wiping on each and every boss because of hitting enrage timers. Can you imagine hitting enrage timers on the easiest instance in the game. This was happening when even i was throwing dps when ever i could. We wiped like 5 times on the last boss. You tell me one good reason why I should waste my time like this and not replace the person who was being carried and not doing enough dps to clear the easiest content. The best part is that both the dps were acting as if they were seasoned raiders and were doing everything "Right". It ruined WOW for you because you wanted to be carried in the raid and not pointed out that you were not doing your job properly. I understand not everyone likes to compete and be on top. That is just fine but don't say that the addon ruined the game for you just because you were bad and did not want to improve. Just don't use the addon and don't raid in environment which requires you to get better. Edited January 23, 2012 by Yummymango Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcato Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 OP, what is your thought process behind something like HealBot turning the game into something like "90's Nintendo"? I didn't use HealBot, I used Grid, but any raid frame addon that caters to healers isn't a huge leap from what we deal with by default. We look at the raid frames and essentially play whack-a-mole with them while our peripheral vision looks at the floor and maybe catches a glimpse of the boss. It's no different in TOR, in fact, it's perhaps worse since there is no ToT in this game. Something like HealBot or even better, Grid, just makes the information you get from the raid frames cleaner and better displayed. With Grid you could set things up like HoT timers and custom debuffs for certain boss fights. These are slight advantages but the HoT tracking in particular is a real quality of life feature. The way these addons display who is debuffed is also another good thing. Some elaboration as to why you think these things are bad would be nice. I'd love to hear a good explanation on why I should heal with a 10yr old UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AureliaKarrde Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The problem with add-ons is that they change how the game evolves. I've played WoW, I didn't have a problem with add-ons at start. Hell, I even used them. But eventually, they became so widely used and made so many raid encounters easier, developers started to design encounters with the use of these add-ons in mind. In reality, it became sort of obligatory to use add-ons if you wanted to compete in any way. Add-ons give individual add-on developers the power to influence game evolution. I want that power to remain solely in Bioware's hands. Not to mention the whole gearscore debacle/drama that wow has seen. Gearscore debacle/drama? You mean people with ***** for gear wanting to go places they aren't geared for? Yeah, it's annoying. Fortunately, we CAN inspect people at least.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felioats Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Agreed, no addons, especially not ones that make the game easier. Once you get addons that make the game easier, the developers have to start balancing that content on the assumption that you have those addons. You also become "stupid" for not using them, just like Biochem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChefTuz Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 As for the meters, I have a suggestion: an <End Flashpoint/Operation Report>, just like in the end of Warzones. Voilá, you can consult who's doing their jobs right. DPS, Healing, Protection, MVP vote also (why not?)... It's all there. I like this idea with one small addition. The tabs at the bottom should separate individual boss encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I would rather see Bioware implements all these tools themself (sic) then someone from the outside does it. This way Bioware could give us information like our dps but keep other stuff hidden from us that would make encounters too predictable. You would rather that Bioware implement all these tools because you know they'll never get to it in a timely fashion. Personally, if I was Bioware I'd be embarrassed that a bunch of nerds in their basements could design parts of the UI better than I could. That really goes for other developers as well (hi Bethesda). Edited January 23, 2012 by Excedrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentone Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Addons are not needed. Bioware is arleady making UI customization soon. But we can do without meters. Players are already clearing content without them . I for one will keep fighting to keep meters out of the game. It just brings to much unwanted drama. I can carry myself in raids and groups. Its annoying seeing another person getting yelled at over what the meters are showing. We don't need any drama in swtor. So devs if your reading this please no meters. Keep the drama out of the game. Edited January 24, 2012 by Innocentone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewMystery Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I am a fan of mods but i understand logic of ppl who are not but could this not be solved by divideing servers as they do pvp pve to mod no mod servers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCanUseTheForce Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Why exactly do you not want addons available? If you don't like them, don't use them. It's not about using them. Their existance changes the game. That's a fact. I played WoW (as I'm sure many of you did) and I hated the almighty damage meter deciding which class is best by fractions of percentages and healbot making healing uninteresting. I'm all about customizing the UI, allowing better access to the tools provided by Bioware. They are on top of many things WoW didn't offer by default (ie - map coordinates) and they will learn what needs to be added and what doesn't. But please, I don't want the 1337's screaming about gearscores, dps toppers, and stupid crap like that. I'd rather we tailor our playing to the content, not make Bio adjust the content because our add-ons are making beating an Operation a brag fest rather than an enjoyable ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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