apla Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 terrible, terrible example about the car. you are taking things out of something that comes standard. a better example would be that it is possible to drive a car as it comes standard off the lot. I don't need to add a radar detector, turbo charger, larger wheels, digital odometer, fuel effeciency module, custom dash and radio display, or any other number of (OMG!!!) Add-ons in order to have a slight edge over other drivers. Edge over other drivers in what? Driving comfort? That's not a bad thing. Speeding? That'll get him caught and his license removed. And if the guy did get edge in comfort, does it make the driving of other people less comfortable? Should they care? (Of course they care, because everyone should be at most as comfortable as they are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellFlame Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Actually a question to all of those who dont want addons: Did you guys actually kill Soa on any Nightmare mode? Just asking. Would be kinda sad if people moan about addons when they didnt even clear the whole content. Its like hey am not doing any operations but addons suck. The content at the moment is a joke and im very serious. You always wanna improve something... thats not possible without addons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSkate Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) @OP: sure it's possible to play without addons. It's also possible to drive a car without brakes or seats. It's very uncomfortable and cumbersome but it's totally possible. However, when I buy a new car for a fairly steep price then I expect it to have the same comforts and other features that all the previous cars had. Otherwise it's simply a badly designed car (and the manufacturer would be shredded in all the reviews of their product - even if he went and stuck some Star Wars stickers on the sides). So YOU want addons because WoW has them. Got it. BTW, bad analogy (first paragraph) is bad. Actually a question to all of those who dont want addons: Did you guys actually kill Soa on any Nightmare mode? Just asking. Would be kinda sad if people moan about addons when they didnt even clear the whole content. Its like hey am not doing any operations but addons suck. The content at the moment is a joke and im very serious. You always wanna improve something... thats not possible without addons. YOU want addons because the game is too easy right now. Seriously all this "dont turn turn this into to WoW crap" "dont make it easy bla bla bla" 95% of the people posting this are 100% nabcake and wanna act l33t on the forums. Freaking clueless nabcakes..... please go play with lego and **** ! And YOU want addons because you don't like crackers and hate Legos? You three have convinced me. I was wrong this whole time. Add-ons are necessary. That way the game can really be WoW in space, get harder to play and people will stop hating on Legos. Boy am I glad I read the forums today. Edited February 1, 2012 by TheSkate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostdurell Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) after reviewing the upcoming content commentation by the lead director, people are going to get a lot of the add-ons they want. other add-ons weren't mentioned, and i don't know what will be excluded. it's still in development, and we will all have to wait and see. give the developers a chance to get there. nothing happens because someone says so. and threatening to end subscritions over it won't bring it any faster. that's just a little hissy fit over getting their own way in my view. and all these add-ons are going to be completely optional. i still won't know how to use them. Edited February 1, 2012 by nostdurell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Healing and damage metrics need to be in place for raid leaders to make wise decisions based on the performance of their players, period. I play an MMO to be the best that I can be and raid with the best. That is what is fun about an MMO to me, I am competitive. I also enjoy the story aspect and the epic lore that goes along with it, ie, the "RPG" element. If you only like the RPG element, good for you, join an RP guild and disregard addons. For those of us that want it, we should get it. The OPs solution to addons is "play the game how the anti addon people want you to play it". No thanks, it's a video game, I'll play how I want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostdurell Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 the developer blog upcoming content is a very good source of info. i'm just working with what was there. the add-ons are coming, like or not. we just have to wait to see what that will be. all this conflict over it won't change anything. why keep the debate? screaming back and forth will not help the subject. bantering each other won't fix it. it's down to wait and see. just look at the developer blog, and decide for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSkate Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Healing and damage metrics need to be in place for raid leaders to make wise decisions based on the performance of their players, period. I play an MMO to be the best that I can be and raid with the best. That is what is fun about an MMO to me, I am competitive. I also enjoy the story aspect and the epic lore that goes along with it, ie, the "RPG" element. If you only like the RPG element, good for you, join an RP guild and disregard addons. For those of us that want it, we should get it. The OPs solution to addons is "play the game how the anti addon people want you to play it". No thanks, it's a video game, I'll play how I want to play. That is just it. In this game you don't have to be the best you can be. You don't need meters because middle of the road is good enough for all but NM. The pro addon crowd is saying "play the game the way I want to play it, not the way it was designed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Healing and damage metrics need to be in place for raid leaders to make wise decisions based on the performance of their players, period. I play an MMO to be the best that I can be and raid with the best. That is what is fun about an MMO to me, I am competitive. I also enjoy the story aspect and the epic lore that goes along with it, ie, the "RPG" element. If you only like the RPG element, good for you, join an RP guild and disregard addons. For those of us that want it, we should get it. The OPs solution to addons is "play the game how the anti addon people want you to play it". No thanks, it's a video game, I'll play how I want to play. How you want to play and because of this everyone must play like you? Well sorry, thats not the way life goes young one. I have been a raidleader for years at the game with the 3 big letters and never had to check the performance of my dps, healers or tanks by looking at meters and yes it was a competetive guild competing for high ranks. All you need are 2 eyes and a brain, you will see when people make mistakes if you dont then you should not be a raidleader. To think that someone who does 1k more dps than another is the better player, is also wrong und wont bring you anywhere near the top rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leneux Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 How you want to play and because of this everyone must play like you? Well sorry, thats not the way life goes young one. I have been a raidleader for years at the game with the 3 big letters and never had to check the performance of my dps, healers or tanks by looking at meters and yes it was a competetive guild competing for high ranks. All you need are 2 eyes and a brain, you will see when people make mistakes if you dont then you should not be a raidleader. To think that someone who does 1k more dps than another is the better player, is also wrong und wont bring you anywhere near the top rankings. How about this, lets ALL have the option to play the game how we like! That way I can look at my parses and you can minimize yours, and then we all are happy happy joy joy. 1k dps alone may not be a deciding factor or whatever, but there's TONS more statistics to monitor! Threat, DPS, HPS, Mitigation, Absorbtion, Activity, Deaths, Revives, Killing blows, omg it goes on and on. Why would someone just big fat not want to know what those numbers are is beyond me, but either way - we should have the option. nuff said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostdurell Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) the developer blog upcoming content on the swtor homepage said that the add-ons are coming. for them, against them, the developers made up their minds. this arguement is pointless. just watch the developer blog. your questions will be answered there. petitioning on this forum for either side is really best left at customer service. attacking each other's statements isn't going to solve anything. but it is nice to see people are really getting into the game. Edited February 2, 2012 by nostdurell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 How about this, lets ALL have the option to play the game how we like! That way I can look at my parses and you can minimize yours, and then we all are happy happy joy joy. 1k dps alone may not be a deciding factor or whatever, but there's TONS more statistics to monitor! Threat, DPS, HPS, Mitigation, Absorbtion, Activity, Deaths, Revives, Killing blows, omg it goes on and on. Why would someone just big fat not want to know what those numbers are is beyond me, but either way - we should have the option. nuff said? Because those numbers are meaningless. A good guild doesn't need all that crap. This is why I say addons are crutches for bad players. You act like you can't live without them and that you can't succeed without them and most of them are pointless e-peen addons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxxr Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Because those numbers are meaningless. A good guild doesn't need all that crap. This is why I say addons are crutches for bad players. The game is nothing but numbers, so you couldn't be more wrong with your first statement. And if a player is playing bad he'd show up on the low end of any given chart. How can that be called a crutch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillltrot Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Car drivers that want a speedometer, tachometer, and fuel gauge are baddies because they can't feel the connection between their vehicle and their environment. It is as simple as that. Bioware provides the speedometer, tachometer and fuel gauge. Everything a skilled Nascar driver needs and is allowed to use. People who like add-ons want to add 1. anti-lock brakes 2. brake-assist 3. rain-sensing automatic windshield wipers 4. tire pressure monitors 5. a satellite view of the road ahead 6. a HUD displaying the speed, tachometer, and fuel gauge of nearby drivers 7. A computer display recording the average and instantaneous speed of all the drivers. 8. More only an add-on junkie could think of. Oh, none of these are allowed to Nascar drivers because they are suppose to have skill. Add-on cause lots of problems and solve none. Trying to add add-ons will only make customers who are going to leave anyway happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kynesis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 How can you "feel the connection between your damage" when you don't see a single number of outgoing damage on your screen? Not to mention "feelings" are very inaccurate because of selective memory. It's too easy to focus on those few big crits and overestimate that ability's overall effect, when it could be insignificant in the big picture. I have to know.. how exactly do you 'feel the connection' - literally, tell us how the game conveys to you the sense and feedback that your actions are not only achieving your goal in general but in specific. Are your bleed attacks more effective than just repeating your default attack? Do you need more Accuracy rating? Is Alacrity giving you an edge over Crit, did many of your attacks miss, which ones? What exactly killed you that last fight, was it the aoe, an extra attack from the boss or did you stand in fire? Is it worth some portion of the group standing in fire to avoid another attack that presents a greater risk? Who's being targeted by the mob you're targeting? Are you healing efficiently, are multiple people healing the same person at the expense of others because they can't see incoming heals? People don't often make good decisions when they rely solely on feelings, maybe you're just one of those people with a great 'gut instinct'... for all I know, you can drive with your eyes closed. Without mechanisms in play to give us appropriate feedback it's all just guesswork. I've mentioned it before but I'll mention it again - I'd much rather have the tools within the game rather than having to rely on third partials. If third parties it must be though, I'm quite prepared to work with that - there have been some truly excellent game mods made that the game company I'm thinking of had absolutely no interest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I personally hate those DPS/heal meter programs. They ruined WoW for me. I played a ret pally from day one and I did pretty good except for solo, which was a PITA having no pulling ability. But 5 mans, raids, did what I was supposed to do, what hybrids are meant to do. Fill in where ever there's a need. Very few wipes in any group I was in. I could be DPSing then stepping back and throwing some extra heals around, even off tanking when needed. When ever some one had a look at the percentages I was in the middle for DPS, but same for heals. After BC it was "your a ret pally you should be putting out more DPS", etc. Playing became more of a formula with rotations, and burst damage, and less about paying attention and reacting as needed. H@ll a trained monkey could play a pally after awhile. Those meters and PVP ruined playing a ret pally for me. Isn't a game supposed to be about having fun? I've found most add-ons are for either the lazy (can't pay attention to who needs heals or buffs) or anal retentive (we all have to play this way) and they suck the fun out of playing a MMO. If you were a ret pally in a raid setting trying to offheal and do a "little bit of everything" you were doing it wrong. Ret in a raid is a dps class. Let the healers heal, let the tanks tank and you go Pew Pew. It's no wonder you didn't like dps meters. In WoW, a pally is a hybrid because they can spec to heal, to tank, or to DPS. Even a Prot Pally can do damage and heal. Hybrid doesn't mean you are supposed to be a jack of all trades in an instance. =\ Edited February 2, 2012 by Rasstavad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimaweap Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Only kind of addon I woould like is an IU. H8 dps and heal addons:S NEVER GONNA USE EM:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameenachan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hmm, Make a built in DPS/Threat and Heal meter. Solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verdunkelt Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) will I think addon are ok great even fore 1 thing. Right now lot of the ui is miss up like we have no combat log, no /roll, no target target, on some of thous bosses kinda be nice to have that like the lass boss in ev with the orbs, not being able to see if your friend has a debuff and you need to remove it and lot more thing. If they let use have addons people can make the addons to help use with this stuff in tell they can make it and put it in game theme self kinda like how wow took some of the addons that are being use and made there own in game version of it work out great fore theme way not do the same because there a lot of thing right now they need to add to help out raiders. sorry about some of the spelling i do have a spelling disorder so hop you under stand were I'm coming form Edited February 2, 2012 by Verdunkelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apla Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Bioware provides the speedometer, tachometer and fuel gauge. Everything a skilled Nascar driver needs and is allowed to use. I can't see any of those meters BioWare provides me. And even if I did, my speedometer would constantly go between 0 and 300mph, and I'd have to "feel" my average speed. Without seeing out of the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoEsprit Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 ToR is a classic MMO and in time we'll need to monitor dps, threat, heal, etc... A built in tool to monitor that will be the best option imo. Atm it's useless, the difficulty is minimal and there's no real need of high performances in HM flashpoints or Operation but the last flashpoint (Kaon) shows that Bioware wants to increase the difficulty a little bit. BIOWARE decided to put ENRAGE on HM boss with very tight timers. All is said there - timer and enrage, two little words but A BIG conclusion... If you constantly wipe on a boss that keep enraging and you can't monitor who's doing his job wrong how can you expect players to progress ?! For god sake we don't even have access to combat log ! It's just the way it goes... without ALL the information, you can't progress cause you'll never know if what you do is right or wrong. So sure, intelligent being who read forums and try different things and can spend money IG to try different optimization will get somewhere eventually but I find that being unable to SEE actual results other than the numbers poping on the screen is very frustrating. I can't imagine being blocked on an encounter because one or two group members unable to do their job right and the Raid leader having no idea who's to blame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyuk Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Why exactly do you not want addons available? If you don't like them, don't use them. Agreed, people like this just make me laugh "addons make the game boring for me so don't let anyone use them" selfish and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentis Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 If you were a ret pally in a raid setting trying to offheal and do a "little bit of everything" you were doing it wrong. Ret in a raid is a dps class. Let the healers heal, let the tanks tank and you go Pew Pew. It's no wonder you didn't like dps meters. In WoW, a pally is a hybrid because they can spec to heal, to tank, or to DPS. Even a Prot Pally can do damage and heal. Hybrid doesn't mean you are supposed to be a jack of all trades in an instance. =\ Actually, for the first two years it pretty much did, the Ret pally could not do DPS worth anything. The failure to adapt to the new model from BC on however can't be explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumbz Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 All I need is somthn like power auras. Somthn exactly the same as PA. I want to look at the game and not just at the bottom of the screen buff/debuff frame or cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagu Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The problem with add-ons is that they change how the game evolves. I've played WoW, I didn't have a problem with add-ons at start. Hell, I even used them. But eventually, they became so widely used and made so many raid encounters easier, developers started to design encounters with the use of these add-ons in mind. In reality, it became sort of obligatory to use add-ons if you wanted to compete in any way. Add-ons give individual add-on developers the power to influence game evolution. I want that power to remain solely in Bioware's hands. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verdunkelt Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 This. You do know developers can control what kinda of add-ons are used in the game right. from 3ed party to meeter then can make it so that add-on work or does not work in that game and if they see you using the kind they don't like you got ban or removed form the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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