Problems with the solo queue idea....

[Doomsdaycomes]

How is wanting to be matched up against similar players community breaking or against the idea of team work?!? They are not asking for solo WZs, they just don't want to be pair up against pre-mades teams packing top of the line gear using voice communications.

 

What will never happen is -not- a better system that is healthier for PvP. What he's saying is (hopefully) MMO Dev's can see that a solo only queue only targets 1 specific problem, and can cause more issues than it fixes.

 

I doubt the OP (Uglymjr) is -against- a proper matchmaking system, though I can not speak for them. I also doubt they are -against- a more level playing field, but being for a more level playing field doesn't mean blindly agree with any suggestion that -might- improve that.

 

The queue time would be an issue but they already have it set up so if rated WZ TEAMS can not get a game after a certain time they are matched up against non rated WZ players. So the same could be done for solo vs group queue as well.

 

No, they do not. They spoke of it in the 1.2 update (before they pulled it 16 hours before the patch), but that was with the inclusion of a solo ranked option. In the actual 1.3 Patch notes there is no mention of cross queue matching, nor is it mentioned in the 1.3 article and more indepth 1.3 ranked pvp blog post.

 

I feel confident to say that no one has actually had this happen in game and it is not a current feature (Unless the wait time is like 2 hours, in which case it is ineffective).

 

Step off your high horse. Solo playing doesn't mean they are bad players. Hell they could be playing on off hours and their friends are not online. Just because someone doesn't have the same play style as you, doesn't automatically make you better than them. So stop stroking your ego...

 

Time for my infamous Strength Geared Trooper analogy!

 

If a person decides that strength on a trooper is a good idea (looks pretty, maybe they're a vanguard and think melee damage good... etc...) and wears it, more power to them, but they shouldn't expect they're going to win.

 

The false assumption is that Premading and Solo queue are different, viable playstyles. They are not.

[Altheran]

Time for my infamous Strength Geared Trooper analogy!

 

If a person decides that strength on a trooper is a good idea (looks pretty, maybe they're a vanguard and think melee damage good... etc...) and wears it, more power to them, but they shouldn't expect they're going to win.

 

The false assumption is that Premading and Solo queue are different, viable playstyles. They are not.

 

Arguable. Not the Trooper part, but Premade vs Solo.

 

Many premades (guild premades) are made of people who want to have support, and sometimes to compensate a lack from the player himself (but hence, sometimes they aren't aware of it).

 

If I take the exemple of an average player, who have some lacks in positioning and self-defense, and imagine he join a guild premade... He will have a support of a tank and a heal making him to not have to do any efforts on this side, and he will focus on his DPS. He will have better results, but has he become better ? No, he just joined a premade.

Now, if what if he kept playing solo ? The lack of vocal and battle plans would force him to improve himself at defending himself when in a pinch, to learn to read a battle and know who need support without any kind of vocal or wrote communication.

Best premades are made of people who are the best solo queuers (who can give the same support as if they were in a premade while in solo). Put 8 men not knowing each other of this kind in the same WZ, and make them fight a random premade, there are chances the premade will be rofl-stomped and will think they're facing a ranked premade... But no.

 

Personally, I respect only players who can be a hard time in solo. I don't give a **** of rofl-stomping team players unless they show me they can be strong by themselves and they are not carried by other players. From my experience I saw many people said to be good players because their group rofl-stomps in PvP, and then saw them join a solo queue and saw them suck.

 

In my opinion, good players rules in both queues : good soloers would make good premade part, and good premader (not the ones who get carried by the team) are good solo players, so for me the two playstyles are perfectly equivalent and viable.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Altheran

[Doomsdaycomes]

Arguable. Not the Trooper part, but Premade vs Solo.

 

Many premades (guild premades) are made of people who want to have support, and sometimes to compensate a lack from the player himself (but hence, sometimes they aren't aware of it).

 

....

 

In my opinion, good players rules in both queues : good soloers would make good premade part, and good premader (not the ones who get carried by the team) are good solo players, so for me the two playstyles are perfectly equivalent and viable.

 

You are correct, good players are good players. As someone else said, Premades don't make good players, Good players make Premades.

 

But we're talking about different "Play styles" which is effectly different ways to the same goal. A Melee Dps and a Ranged Dps are different play styles, but they should be roughly equal in achieving the same goal... Dps. Likewise, a Sin tank vs. a Jugg tank is a matter of play style as well. They should both be roughly equal in what they do (tanking).

 

Now switch back to Premade vs. PuG. The goal is winning (as opposed to dpsing or tanking). The goal of Objective/Team based pvp is always to win, to complete the objectives. Forming your own team is a tactic to complete that goal. Can you say PuG'ing is a tactic? If anything, it's an Anti-tactic (whatever that is.)

 

Someone else summed up that PuG'ing is like the lottery (or a box of chocolates), which I find true. Sometimes get good players, sometimes get sucky players, sometimes get all mercs!

 

Yet no -sensible- person plays the Lottery as an investment. There is a reason it's called a "Stupidity Tax."

[Draekos]

Been busy so just got to see this. Alot of what you say is true, but it works for FPS and RTS games. They had a chance to try something new, open this up in a MMO, but they again fell back on the WoW model. This game doesn't innovate, so I am sure this got scrapped too.

[Ashaari]

This is just a list of problems I see with the idea and of course just my opinion. Now let's get this started so we can have a mature and friendly debate. No... just kidding... we all know that won't happen.

 

1. It will never happen: The developers have stated time and time again that they want to promote community and team work. This idea completely goes against that idea.

 

2. Populations: Even if it did happen, I don't believe most servers have a strong enough population to support the idea without drastically affecting queue times. Populations are better now with the F2P players, but most of those players will not hit 50 for a few weeks, we will not see many of them in WZ's with the limited amount of matches they get and we'll likely see another population drop when the novelty wears off.

 

3. It will not help the problem: Most of the supporters of the solo queue idea want it because they're tired of being "rolled" by pre-mades. This idea won't help that. If you are solo queuing, you are near as likely to have a pre-made on your team as you to be up against one. Besides that... it decreases both teams chances of having anything close to proper team composition. Which would just in turn create more imbalance within each match.

 

4. Not all pre-mades are good: There are several guilds on just my server alone that make me cringe when we're teamed with them. The idea that all pre-mades are composed of face rolling gods is ridiculous. There are probably more bad pre-mades than good ones.

 

5. It does not promote competitiveness: Rated WZ's are slow enough currently with little incentive to join them. We have a very casual PvP community who do not strive to be better players already. Personally I hate the idea of a bracket that would cater to mediocracy and gives players no incentive to improve or become more competitive.

 

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The one thing that most can agree on is that for MOST fresh 50's the PvP experience can be frustrating. While I'm personally fine with the system as is. Many fresh 50's don't enjoy the fresh 50 grind and I definitely don't think the F2P'ers who enjoy PvP will either, especially with limited play time. However a solo queue will not solve the problem or promote subscriptions. Personally, I think THIS would be a better idea. Maybe not perfect... but I definitely don't think a solo queue bracket would be a positive change or even pacify those who support it. It would likely be a just as frustrating experience for those who are struggling against pre-mades.

 

1,It will never happen - never say never in an MMO, developers have an inbuilt ability to do the dumbest things based on their lack of knowledge of actually playing their game - occasionally, and quite by accident, they get something right, unfortunately it is much too rare.

 

2. The low population argument - If the current population is too low then it would indicate changes need to be made to make it more appealing to a broader cross section of the player base.

 

3. But at least it will take their excuses away and at the same time provide and alternative and different play experience.

 

4. And not all PuGs are bad - not relevent to the conversation in my opinion as your statement talks about the qualities of individual players/groups not about the games mechanics.

 

5, Again your value judgement of individual skills is irrelevent to the discussion - you could equally argue that solo queues promote better individual skills (my actual experience) so that when the individuals do group queue they are able to contribute even better to the team than they otherwise would. In other words it would be more competative but on a more individual level i.e. not carried by the rest of the team provides incentive to optimise gear and build.

 

The summary of your post comes down to one real reason which is population - I have given a response above which challenges your paradigm i.e. is tha population small becuase of the current system - would it be advantageous to change? Who knows, but writing off the idea without suggesting alternative suggestions will always be seen as l33t players trying to maintain their easy face roll opporunities no matter how good your intentions.

[Doomsdaycomes]

1,It will never happen - never say never in an MMO, developers have an inbuilt ability to do the dumbest things based on their lack of knowledge of actually playing their game - occasionally, and quite by accident, they get something right, unfortunately it is much too rare.

 

1. I would agree that saying -never- is not a good argument. I would instead argue it hasn't been done successfully without a large population.

 

2. The low population argument - If the current population is too low then it would indicate changes need to be made to make it more appealing to a broader cross section of the player base.

 

2a. Two points here. The first being this thread is entirely about 1 option that has been proposed, which is the split/solo queue option. It doesn't cover any other option, or say that there isn't an issue with the current system.

 

2b. The state of the current population is caused by multiple problems, which we (as players) have no accurate data to determine why. It could be premade vs. pug, too much competition, the gear gap, the grind, lack of content, more interest in other content, lack of other content, the economy, class imbalance, faciton imbalance, an angry skydaddy, mismanagment... etc...

 

3. But at least it will take their excuses away and at the same time provide and alternative and different play experience.

 

3. At what cost? Just to take someone's excuse away isn't a good enough reason to use a flawed idea.

 

4. And not all PuGs are bad - not relevent to the conversation in my opinion as your statement talks about the qualities of individual players/groups not about the games mechanics.

 

4. No comment really, other than perhaps this was a comment to the falsehoods that are spread about both sides. Not all premades are good, not all Pug's are bad, and not all twi'leks are dancers.

 

5, Again your value judgement of individual skills is irrelevent to the discussion - you could equally argue that solo queues promote better individual skills (my actual experience) so that when the individuals do group queue they are able to contribute even better to the team than they otherwise would. In other words it would be more competative but on a more individual level i.e. not carried by the rest of the team provides incentive to optimise gear and build.

 

5. The same could be argued that solo play makes worse individual skills. Just as a solo queuer is not guaranteed a healer or tank (support) their opponents are not. Therefore, they may never learn how to deal with cross heals, or a healer being guarded, how to stop from being peeled, and how to avoid/counter being focus fired. They may never deal with someone slowing them down while a team mate takes a node/caps a door, or a coordinated blitz stealth assault (it has a counter).

 

Like wise, they may not know what to do -when- supported. How many healers (and dps) have I seen run away from their guard (which becomes useless). What may seem like an unwinnable fight (2 dps vs. 3-4) suddenly becomes possible with a dps and healer (if not winnable, a long drawn out fight.).

 

Solo-only brackets have no guarantee of promoting individual skill building, and in fact may hurt them in the long run.

 

The summary of your post comes down to one real reason which is population - I have given a response above which challenges your paradigm i.e. is tha population small becuase of the current system - would it be advantageous to change? Who knows, but writing off the idea without suggesting alternative suggestions will always be seen as l33t players trying to maintain their easy face roll opporunities no matter how good your intentions.

 

I think you should re-evalute your summary. Population, less team-oriented play, leads to more excuses, and doesn't solve the problem.

 

As for changing the current system, I agree, but I do not agree to this method. Matchmaking on some criteria would trump a split bracket in terms of serving the entire community. However, the only reason the OP did not post an alternative suggestion is because this thread is -specificly- targetted at the weaker of two suggestions.

[Ashaari]

I accept to some degree your comments, as with my own they lack some detail due to the need for brevity.

 

I also accept that match making would provide a better solution in principle, however, I have little to no faith in the developers to deliver such a system a) In my lifetime, and b) without major issues and bugs which would totally ruin PvP due to the loss of the player base that would almost certainly result.

 

Just so there is no misunderstanding as to my motives, I care a lot more about the size of the player base than whether we have solo or group only queues. I believe something needs to be done and I get frustrated by the people who only argue for no change - If they are against solo queues fine - so suggest other solutions to the population issues in PvP.

[Doomsdaycomes]

I accept to some degree your comments, as with my own they lack some detail due to the need for brevity.

 

I also accept that match making would provide a better solution in principle, however, I have little to no faith in the developers to deliver such a system a) In my lifetime, and b) without major issues and bugs which would totally ruin PvP due to the loss of the player base that would almost certainly result.

 

Just so there is no misunderstanding as to my motives, I care a lot more about the size of the player base than whether we have solo or group only queues. I believe something needs to be done and I get frustrated by the people who only argue for no change - If they are against solo queues fine - so suggest other solutions to the population issues in PvP.

 

We are then, more or less in agreement. I only hope that the change that comes is a combinition of system (matchmaking) and community (mentality/growth), and it comes both in time and properly. <.< Sadly, I have little faith in the PvP dev's either.

[Jadescythe]

Depending on the trolling I get, this will probably be my last statement on the matter of premades.

 

Simply put, I am yet to see an argument from ANYONE on the forums that lists the core issue of why they don't win solo as the fact that there are premades in the warzone. Every single point is in reference to some other imbalance that they feel exists and blame grouping for this issue. If I see one more person say that it's because premades are stacked with geared to the teeth elite warlords, I might actually lose it. Add in that everyone assumes all people queuing solo have nothing better than unaugmented recruit gear and the argument gets ridiculous.

 

People can scream at the top of their lungs about how PVP isn't fun because they don't even have a chance at winning against these uber teams, but everyone will have to endure the exact same complaints when they run into a significantly more geared group that randomly gets put together in the solo queue.

 

Warzones, as they are made, are supposed to be a team game where you coordinate with other players to achieve an objective. Is anyone surprised that people would want to queue with other people that they know play objectively and intelligently? Is anyone surprised that when you have people on your team that know what they are doing and care about winning that they tend to win more often?

 

I'm not saying everyone is this way, but when you are going into a warzone alone, you have a different mindset than when you enter with a group. The simple fact that you WANT to go into the match without the possibility of teams tells me that you do not want a team based game, but rather a series of 1v1 deathmatches. These are the same people that will never play a tank or heal role in warzones because it relies too heavily on other people.

 

I'm not saying that queuing with other people is not an advantage, it clearly is. The alternative of having a solo queue simply does not promote improvement in the player base. It does not promote team based play in warzones. It does not promote building a massively multiplayer online community. It does not resolve the root issues that people are truly complaining about (gear imbalance, faction imbalance, class imbalance, composition imbalance, etc).

 

I simply do not want to see what little team aspect there is to warzones lost because the community wants to pander to those who are going against the basic principle of warzones: play as a team. And those calling for this are not necessarily "casual", it is a range of players who simply do not want to rely on others to complete the mission. It's all the people in FPS games that go lone wolf and keep dying while the other people on the team are travelling in a pack, destroying anyone they run into. Don't be a lone wolf.

[Theodulus]

1. It will never happen: The developers have stated time and time again that they want to promote community and team work. This idea completely goes against that idea.

If this actually was true they would never have caved in and added a groupfinder and they would have removed the ability to queue anything less than 8 people for warzones.

2. Populations: Even if it did happen, I don't believe most servers have a strong enough population to support the idea without drastically affecting queue times. Populations are better now with the F2P players, but most of those players will not hit 50 for a few weeks, we will not see many of them in WZ's with the limited amount of matches they get and we'll likely see another population drop when the novelty wears off.

I don't think that many are actually premading anymore. I only face a premade in about once every 3 or 4 matches.

 

3. It will not help the problem: Most of the supporters of the solo queue idea want it because they're tired of being "rolled" by pre-mades. This idea won't help that. If you are solo queuing, you are near as likely to have a pre-made on your team as you to be up against one. Besides that... it decreases both teams chances of having anything close to proper team composition. Which would just in turn create more imbalance within each match.

Yes a proper matchmaking algorithm is needed so idiots play with idiots and if there are not enough idiots queuing let both teams have the exact same amount of idiots.

4. Not all pre-mades are good: There are several guilds on just my server alone that make me cringe when we're teamed with them. The idea that all pre-mades are composed of face rolling gods is ridiculous. There are probably more bad pre-mades than good ones.

Yes those bad premades always seems to end up on my side. They are often the cause that the warzone are lost. Even premades from "good" guilds are quite annoying to deal with. They are so used to face easy competition that when they face a competent pug they start blaming the pugs on their side when the premade fails to call incs or just plainly have tunnel vision and lose the objective. I've yet to see a premade that consistently call incs and are being good team players. If you want to do voice com warzones with your buddies and ignore the chat and the rest of the team then RWZ is that way --->.

 

5. It does not promote competitiveness: Rated WZ's are slow enough currently with little incentive to join them. We have a very casual PvP community who do not strive to be better players already. Personally I hate the idea of a bracket that would cater to mediocracy and gives players no incentive to improve or become more competitive.

Improperly balanced teams does not promote competitiveness. If you pit the 8 best on the server against the 8 worst neither side will learn anything new or feel their competitive spirit increased. I don't really care if group queue is separate from the solo queuers since what the game need is proper matchmaking. Yes you can have a pop once every minute but if the games aren't fair then they won't queue again. I've seen PvP died on one server due to a single dominant guild rolling everyone else. The state of normal warzones were worse off than RWZ today. Before I rerolled I could get a single queue pop once every week against the same guild. Then everyone else stopped queuing. And we all need new cannon fodder if PvP is going to survive in the 50s bracket.

[UGLYMRJ]

It does not resolve the root issues that people are truly complaining about (gear imbalance, faction imbalance, class imbalance, composition imbalance, etc).

 

Add skill imbalance... and then control as many of these factors as possible and... win.

 

I just don't get why people would rather solo queue and not control as many advantages as possible.

 

Was that "resolve the root" pun intended?

Edited November 21, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Crawelc]

Add skill imbalance... and then control as many of these factors as possible and... win.

 

Was that "resolve the root" pun intended?

 

If it wasnt intended this guy has witt to spare, i lol'd

[Jadescythe]

Add skill imbalance... and then control as many of these factors as possible and... win.

 

I just don't get why people would rather solo queue and not control as many advantages as possible.

 

Was that "resolve the root" pun intended?

 

Truthishly (bonus internet points for getting the reference), it was not intentional. Made myself LOL when you pointed it out though.

 

I do have some ideas for resolve though, might have to start a thread up here soon.

[UGLYMRJ]

Truthishly (bonus internet points for getting the reference), it was not intentional. Made myself LOL when you pointed it out though.

 

I do have some ideas for resolve though, might have to start a thread up here soon.

 

Honestly I'd like to see it, I haven't seen many resolve threads that I agree with and... resolve is one thing that I really think could be improved and my best solution would be to put it back to pre 1.4.

 

I really don't have any good, solid, original ideas on the resolve thing. Things have crossed my mind but I can't think of a fix that would actually improve it all around.

[livinlife]

The answer that solo q's are bad because this is a mmo and mmo's are about groups and community make me laugh. The swtor pvp community is one of the main reasons i think this game failed to begin with lol. Its all fine encouraging community aslong as its in everyones best interest but we can't forgot that people are indiviuals and soon as u dont repect the indivual then they dont respect the community and off we go on the downward spiral thats called the imperial fleet. All the elitist left wow played swtor to death within a month or two and then moved on. Having played two other long-lived mmo's both of which have survived years, not due to elitists but to caring polite adults, i do have to say swtor is by far worst mmo community that i've seen (wish it wasn't so). At the age of 37 i feel like a dinsouar on my usual server were the avg age i would judge between 15-25 ( worst age group to get advice from bioware).

[UGLYMRJ]

i do have to say swtor is by far worst mmo community that i've seen.

 

This... over all... I agree with completely.

[Kyuuu]

The fix is simple.

 

Grouped People=RWZ

Solo= WZ

 

This fixes the problem of people not doing RWZ and Groups Ruining Solo people fun Cause

A. They cant find RWZ

B. Few people and or groups do manage to get groups but not people groups to fight from Rolling over the solo people.

C. Solo people from be ***** from the same premade group over and over again

D. IT actual makes it so people actual do RWZ

 

 

It a simple concept i dont why it not done. seeing it fix the problems with both warzones. Only thing it dont fix is the the Stun and CC fetish going on in there. Only people that would complain about system like this is people that actual get RWZ groups 8 together but cant find people to fight and like running over solo people and use voicechat Which is easily fixed by adding an in game voice chat for RWZ. THis would level out the whole problem of lack of people rwz and groups ruing solo query. Saddly i dont see this happening. And the fun of wz as solo is completely gona at this point.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Kyuuu

[UGLYMRJ]

The fix is simple.

 

Grouped People=RWZ

Solo= WZ

 

This fixes the problem of people not doing RWZ and Groups Ruining Solo people fun Cause

A. They cant find RWZ

B. Few people and or groups do manage to get groups but not people groups to fight from Rolling over the solo people.

C. Solo people from be ***** from the same premade group over and over again

D. IT actual makes it so people actual do RWZ

 

 

It a simple concept i dont why it not done. seeing it fix the problems with both warzones. Only thing it dont fix is the the Stun and CC fetish going on in there. Only people that would complain about system like this is people that actual get RWZ groups together but cant find people to fight and like running over solo people. THis would level out the whole problem of lack of people rwz and groups ruing solo query

 

Because 6 people in a guild who are online and want to play together should not be forced to play alone. I'm sorry but that idea is horrible. Refer to problem #1 in the original post.

Edited November 21, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Crawelc]

The fix is simple.

 

Grouped People=RWZ

Solo= WZ

 

This fixes the problem of people not doing RWZ and Groups Ruining Solo people fun Cause

A. They cant find RWZ

B. Few people and or groups do manage to get groups but not people groups to fight from Rolling over the solo people.

C. Solo people from be ***** from the same premade group over and over again

D. IT actual makes it so people actual do RWZ

 

 

It a simple concept i dont why it not done. seeing it fix the problems with both warzones. Only thing it dont fix is the the Stun and CC fetish going on in there. Only people that would complain about system like this is people that actual get RWZ groups together but cant find people to fight and like running over solo people. THis would level out the whole problem of lack of people rwz and groups ruing solo query

 

Im guessing German because the only word used in proper context is Fetish. JK!

On a serious note the only optimism I have is that the new practically free WH gear will make RWZ's happen, but my glass is barely half full.

[Kyuuu]

Because 6 people in a guild who are online and want to play together should not be forced to play alone. I'm sorry but that idea is horrible. Refer to problem #1 in the original post.

 

again grouped people would be put in RWZ hence that still all together... Which leave the solo people alone but for that to work the 8 man group requirement need to be removed rwz. it easy to get system that put groups of 6 with a group of 2 and other combination.

 

Im guessing German because the only word used in proper context is Fetish. JK!

On a serious note the only optimism I have is that the new practically free WH gear will make RWZ's happen, but my glass is barely half full.

 

no it wont it will still be easier to get comms by make groups of 4 and go **** solo quiery. which is the whole problem right now. only people that have problem with changes like that are people that abuse the fact that it can be done. so much easier then get a require 8 man team to fight another 8 man team that rwz needs which is one reason why there so hard to get.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Kyuuu

[UGLYMRJ]

again grouped people would be put in RWZ hence that still all together... Which leave the solo people alone but for that to work the 8 man group requirement need to be removed rwz. it easy to get system that put groups of 6 with a group of 2 and other combination.

.

 

This is broken all around for reasons that have been mentioned already.

 

1. Rated is intended for pre-made groups of 8 to compettively play against each other with optimal gear and class composition. It should not be filled with random groups of whoever happens to be queuing.

 

Yes, I'm aware that it's slow and not many are queuing for rated. That still doesn't justify changing it completely from how it was intended.

 

2. Let's say a 6 man group and 2 man group together. One disconnects.... replace him with... oh wait... that's right. No one.

 

Say it's late night... Not so prime time. I'm grouped with 4 people and want to PvP. There are 5 other groups queued as well. 6 groups total

 

The groups are comprised of:

 

- 4 players

- 4 players

- 3 players

- 2 players

- 4 players

- 4 players

 

Just as one example... but hopefully you see my point. People get screwed. The groups with 2 & 3 players in this example will never get a queue unless something changes. This is just a simple example but people would be forced into changing group sizes randomly just to promote a pop. Potentially waiting unfair amounts of time waiting to get in a war zone.

 

And you want to screw over people who are grouping and using the community functions as intended because you want to implement an idea that goes against everything an MMO is because you're tired of getting rolled?

 

Form a guild perhaps... maybe form a group after that and fight back. MMO's do not have a difficulty setting... stop asking for an easy mode queue.

[LenrocNewDawn]

Because 6 people in a guild who are online and want to play together should not be forced to play alone. I'm sorry but that idea is horrible. Refer to problem #1 in the original post.

 

Well then start recruiting you "god gift to SWTOR PvP" you. Get your **** together and get the likes of you in a titan clash of skill and awesomeness in ranked. Why do you want to keep fighting the inept? Oh, right you want to promote community and nothing builds community like a good whooping from ones betters. I have to

"LOL" at the claim "Ehm it takes work to form a 4 man premade and so we deserve to win". ROTFFL You know how hard that is? This hard: " Guild Chat: anyone for PvP,p1 >me,p2>me,p3>me, oki guys get in channel two in "insert pref voip"". Maybe a "P2 change to your heals, pls" as an extra effort. For this you deserve a win for sure. "Oh, but I had to work to get in that guild" no you didn't have, you just had to stick around long enough to make some friends.

 

Oh, and there is no problem with the solo que idea. Anyone can do solo as anyone can do premades. The fact that your preferred pool (premades) it's not big enough to support a decent queue time it's not a PuGer's problem. It's yours and you are aggravating it by destroying Pugers willingness to PvP and move to the next level which I agree is grouped combat. And don't forget something veteran players had a better experience in their time because the game was new and most of the other players were at similar level of gear and the guilds were just forming while the new comers now have a much steep learning and progression curve to deal with not to mention sometime stupid prerequisites for joining a guild .

 

Oh common BW, FFS just remove the stupid "solo queue" button already and be done with this. Let's build community and skilled PvP playing field .

Edited November 21, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

[Doomsdaycomes]

Well then start recruiting you "god gift to SWTOR PvP" you. Get your **** together and get the likes of you in a titan clash of skill and awesomeness in ranked. Why do you want to keep fighting the inept? Oh, right you want to promote community and nothing builds community like a good whooping from ones betters. I have to

"LOL" at the claim "Ehm it takes work to form a 4 man premade and so we deserve to win". ROTFFL You know how hard that is? This hard: " Guild Chat: anyone for PvP,p1 >me,p2>me,p3>me, oki guys get in channel two in "insert pref voip"". Maybe a "P2 change to your heals, pls" as an extra effort. For this you deserve a win for sure. "Oh, but I had to work to get in that guild" no you didn't have, you just had to stick around long enough to make some friends.

 

Oh, and there is no problem with the solo que idea. Anyone can do solo as anyone can do premades. The fact that your preferred pool (premades) it's not big enough to support a decent queue time it's not a PuGer's problem. It's yours and you are aggravating it by destroying Pugers willingness to PvP and move to the next level which I agree is grouped combat. And don't forget something veteran players had a better experience in their time because the game was new and most of the other players were at similar level of gear and forming up in guilds while the new comers now have a much steep learning and progression curve to deal with.

 

Oh common BW, FFS just remove the stupid "solo queue" button already and be done with this. Let's build community and skilled PvP playing field .

 

Answer me this:

 

I have a full time job, errands, chores, and weekly engagements, and I have done the grind (going away in 1.6!), I've invested some tme in a guild, and I've built my friendslist. I did all of this on my new main after coming back shortly after server mergers, so yes, I did it under the exact same conditions as most PvP'ers these days. I am successful at PvP... so why can you not do as I have done?

 

 

Group Play and Solo Play are not "different play styles." One is a tactic/strategy and a use of a tool, the other is the complete absence of it. Sometimes we all have to PuG, and Solo players play a vital role in filling and backfilling matches, but any one serious about "competition" would be premading as often as they can.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Doomsdaycomes

[UGLYMRJ]

Well then start recruiting you "god gift to SWTOR PvP" you. Get your **** together and get the likes of you in a titan clash of skill and awesomeness in ranked. Why do you want to keep fighting the inept? Oh, right you want to promote community and nothing builds community like a good whooping from ones betters. I have to

"LOL" at the claim "Ehm it takes work to form a 4 man premade and so we deserve to win". ROTFFL You know how hard that is? This hard: " Guild Chat: anyone for PvP,p1 >me,p2>me,p3>me, oki guys get in channel two in "insert pref voip"". Maybe a "P2 change to your heals, pls" as an extra effort. For this you deserve a win for sure. "Oh, but I had to work to get in that guild" no you didn't have, you just had to stick around long enough to make some friends.

 

Oh, and there is no problem with the solo que idea. Anyone can do solo as anyone can do premades. The fact that your preferred pool (premades) it's not big enough to support a decent queue time it's not a PuGer's problem. It's yours and you are aggravating it by destroying Pugers willingness to PvP and move to the next level which I agree is grouped combat. And don't forget something veteran players had a better experience in their time because the game was new and most of the other players were at similar level of gear and the guilds were just forming while the new comers now have a much steep learning and progression curve to deal with not to mention sometime stupid prerequisites for joining a guild .

 

Oh common BW, FFS just remove the stupid "solo queue" button already and be done with this. Let's build community and skilled PvP playing field .

 

Seems pretty obvious you only read the comment you quoted. Try reading the original post. There are many problems with the solo queue idea as it goes against the base design of the game and the intentions of the game developers.

[kcol]

Answer me this:

 

I have a full time job, errands, chores, and weekly engagements, and I have done the grind (going away in 1.6!), I've invested some tme in a guild, and I've built my friendslist. I did all of this on my new main after coming back shortly after server mergers, so yes, I did it under the exact same conditions as most PvP'ers these days. I am successful at PvP... so why can you not do as I have done?

 

 

Group Play and Solo Play are not "different play styles." One is a tactic/strategy and a use of a tool, the other is the complete absence of it. Sometimes we all have to PuG, and Solo players play a vital role in filling and backfilling matches, but any one serious about "competition" would be premading as often as they can.

 

Anyone serious would be q'ing for ranked