Warzone Cartel Pack - would you buy/do we need one?

[Invictusthetaru]

What you're suggesting with buying comms for coins is exactly pay2win. With your idea, a person can simply buy the best pvp gear with real money, and I think that is a very, very terrible idea.

 

Puhlease, BiS gear helps players a lot, but there are a ton of players with amazing gear that suck ***.

 

If someone wants to spend money to get the best gear because they don't have the play time, more power to them, how does it effect you and I?

[DarthMaulUK]

if you think 'bioware needs to address the gear grind' then you're playing the wrong game kid. go play a REAL mmo that makes you REALLY grind for gear, and then come back and thank bioware for making the gear grind easy(that's right, i said EASY)

 

A 'real' mmo doesn't make you grind for gear, pvp is based on skill - kid.

 

On topic, interesting that someone found a PvP coms box but no other info.Maybe it was just data mining, so clearly is already somewhere in the coding.

[LeonHawkeye]

Cartel packs that give Adrenals and medpacks perhaps tolerable although still feel out of place, selling Valor boosts is questionable but since Valor is pretty much useless at this point it doesn't matter much but selling Commendations is crossing the line; that will effectively start the trend into a Pay to Win model, which is absolutely terrible. If this game every goes P2W I am officially and completely done with the game and am very certain I am not the only one.

[Smashbrother]

Puhlease, BiS gear helps players a lot, but there are a ton of players with amazing gear that suck ***.

 

If someone wants to spend money to get the best gear because they don't have the play time, more power to them, how does it effect you and I?

 

Are you seriously asking how being able to buy gear with money affects other players? Really? Wow.

[Smashbrother]

Is there any reason pay to win is bad?

 

I'm leading you into a trap here, so please be thoughtful with your response

 

Because any business model where you throw a bunch of money in order to win is bad. It's also unfair to the people who don't have the money to buy all their gear. It's also a slippery slope model where you'll eventually get to the point where you HAVE to spend real money in order to be competitive. Finally, tons of people will stop playing this game if the game goes P2W, including me. If you want the game to flourish, P2W is not the way to go. BW doesn't need to charge money for gear in order to make a profit either because previous games that have cash shops and only sell cosmetic stuff do very well (LoL being a prime example).

 

Pay 2 win is a terrible idea. Look at the Yankees and the Lakers.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Zunayson]

Because any business model where you throw a bunch of money in order to win is bad. It's also unfair to the people who don't have the money to buy all their gear. It's also a slippery slope model where you'll eventually get to the point where you HAVE to spend real money in order to be competitive. Finally, tons of people will stop playing this game if the game goes P2W, including me. If you want the game to flourish, P2W is not the way to go. BW doesn't need to charge money for gear in order to make a profit either because previous games that have cash shops and only sell cosmetic stuff do very well (LoL being a prime example).

 

Pay 2 win is a terrible idea. Look at the Yankees and the Lakers.

 

Because any business model where you throw a bunch of time grind in order to win is bad. It's also unfair to the people who don't have the time to grind all their gear. It's also a slippery slope model where you'll eventually get to the point to where you HAVE to grind months in order to be competitive (Oh, wait...). Finally, tons of people will stop playing this game if the game goes Grind 2 win, including me (Oh, wait...). If you want the game to flourish, G2W is not the way to go. BW doesn't need to make us grind for gear in order to make a profit (to keep us playing? wut?) either because previous games that have gear grinds that only reward cosmetic stuff do very well.

 

Grind 2 win is a terrible idea. Look at WoW and SWTOR.

 

 

See? I don't personally see the difference, so please educate me. If PvP measures skill, then yes P2W is bad. But if this is so, then G2W is equally as bad. If you justify grind to win, then, by definition, you support one of these conclusions:

 

1. PvP does not measure skill

2. IF Grinding to win is perfectly valid, THEN paying to win is perfectly valid.

 

Both of which you disagree with, I hope.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Zunayson

[Boyana]

1. PvP does not measure skill

2. IF Grinding to win is perfectly valid, THEN paying to win is perfectly valid.

 

Both of which you disagree with, I hope.

 

Doesn't have to mean that one who has the money doesn't have the time and vise verse.

Also, with (so-called) grind you can eventually get the gear. If one doesn't have the money, he/she simply cannot buy the items that, trust me, won't be/aren't cheap.

I think that is the problem with pay-to-win.

Pay-to-win also includes grind, not only in game, also in your real life.

 

That is the way I see it.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Boyana

[Count_Midnite]

The thing about buying comms is most people would be scared as hell to see a newbie in BiS War Hero Gear.

People complain on here all the time it doesn't take War Hero to be on top, and for the most part at sometimes... It's true.

Still it's not necessarily Pay 2 Win if you all have a shot of getting the same gear.

 

Now I have done the grind of War Hero, but I haven't BiS mine yet. All in all it takes about 200+ of PVP in order to get the damn things. Now whoever brought up "Wasting your real life to buy in-game gear" I'd rather buy my full set of gear and it would probably take me less time to do it, rather than have a grind against organised premades losing a lot of games just to get to my mark for a couple of pieces.

 

But honestly that's just me. Still the Valor and WZ Health Pack boosts would be good

[Iggster]

With the upcoming Cartel Market, I noticed that there isn't any love for PvP. With that in mind, would you welcome such a pack littered with PvP gifts? Suggest some ideas and your thoughts -

 

I would like to see one with a roll for

WZ Med Packs

WZ Adrenals

100 either WZ coms or Rated coms(a bit like the old Champion bags)

WZ Valour Boost

 

Ideas?

 

Has Bioware ever shown love for PVP with this game?

[DarthMaulUK]

The pay2win argument is something that I hope Bioware are mindful of - which could be the reason why there isn't any PvP love with the Cartel Market - that or they clean forgot.

 

But if everyone is chasing the same gear(armour/selection of weapons) then it isn't essentially pay2win because the War Hero/Elite stuff is open to all to get. However, if a certain weapon that offered increased stats/bonuses were only sold then you could argue an unfair advantage.

 

Creating a world of the 'haves' and the 'have nots' is something I have and always will be dead against - especially in todays world were money is tight for everyone.

 

A very interesting debate from both sides. I wish I could have added a poll now, it would have been interesting to see how the voting would have gone. If a Mod could help there, please

Edited November 13, 2012 by DarthMaulUK

[CommanderKeeva]

The pay2win argument is something that I hope Bioware are mindful of - which could be the reason why there isn't any PvP love with the Cartel Market - that or they clean forgot.

 

But if everyone is chasing the same gear(armour/selection of weapons) then it isn't essentially pay2win because the War Hero/Elite stuff is open to all to get. However, if a certain weapon that offered increased stats/bonuses were only sold then you could argue an unfair advantage.

 

Creating a world of the 'haves' and the 'have nots' is something I have and always will be dead against - especially in todays world were money is tight for everyone.

 

A very interesting debate from both sides. I wish I could have added a poll now, it would have been interesting to see how the voting would have gone. If a Mod could help there, please

 

I think it's a pretty safe guess that the opponents of P2W would far far outweigh the proponents. But, please, do so and let the numbers speak.

[Erudain]

No Warzone commendations you say?

 

What's this then?

 

http://www.swtor-spy.com/item-single/Major_Warzone_Commendation_Pack/18188/

 

wait...what??? can anyone confirm/deny this?

[Invictusthetaru]

Are you seriously asking how being able to buy gear with money affects other players? Really? Wow.

 

Do you seriously think you will lose to these players? The answer is a resounding no.

[DegreesOfFreedom]

I would like to see one with a roll for

100 either WZ coms or Rated coms(a bit like the old Champion bags)

Ideas?

 

This is a terrible idea. I like your other ideas though (medpack and adrenals).

Edited November 13, 2012 by DegreesOfFreedom

[Veniras]

wait...what??? can anyone confirm/deny this?

 

Just because it's been coded and datamined doesn't mean it will be in game.

[Erudain]

cool...scared for a while.

Bad Morgoth...go back to the void!!!!

[KhalDrogoe]

PERHAPS, they could even sell the "extremely rare combat reusables" that were promised to be in the supply packs back in the day that never actually existed in the game. I would drop 1000 cartel coins on a reusable combat medpack and another 1000 cartel coins on another reusable combat adrenal!

[UncelSam]

Is there anyting useful for us pvpers at all in the cartel market?

[DarthOvertone]

What you're suggesting with buying comms for coins is exactly pay2win. With your idea, a person can simply buy the best pvp gear with real money, and I think that is a very, very terrible idea.

 

You may think it is a terrible idea, but it is not P2W. P2W is being able to purchase an item in the Store which gives a player an unfair advantage over other players that cannot be acquired through normal gameplay. WZ/RWZ Comms are easily acquired through normal gameplay. Thus purchasing those through the Store would be a matter of convenience, not advantage, and therefore not P2W.

[MorgothQuick]

PERHAPS, they could even sell the "extremely rare combat reusables" that were promised to be in the supply packs back in the day that never actually existed in the game. I would drop 1000 cartel coins on a reusable combat medpack and another 1000 cartel coins on another reusable combat adrenal!

 

Damn straight. Its damn annoying having to buy these when you need the comms for mods/gear.

 

Also those comms in the cartel packs probably will be in the game, however they're random whether you get them or not, so its not too big of a deal I think.

[Doomsdaycomes]

You may think it is a terrible idea, but it is not P2W. P2W is being able to purchase an item in the Store which gives a player an unfair advantage over other players that cannot be acquired through normal gameplay. WZ/RWZ Comms are easily acquired through normal gameplay. Thus purchasing those through the Store would be a matter of convenience, not advantage, and therefore not P2W.

 

Just thought I'd copy and paste my message from the other forum here. Not that I overly disagree with what you're saying, but I honestly do not trust a company once it's started down the road of selling power.

 

I tend to agree, though true P2W (which is what is being discussed) is items being sold that can not be received in game (or if they are available, the amount of effort to get them is so much... it's literally not possible.)

 

For Example:

 

Perfect World International has a refining system for gear, where you use a mirage celestone (uncomon item) and attempt to get a +1 on to an item (Which adds damage or Hp depending on the type of item.) Each refine adds another +1 (so +1, +2, +3, +4...) up to +12.

 

Now the first +1 is like a 33% chance, but the second is 20%. If you -fail- a refine attempt, the item resets to zero. The third +1 (+3) is like 5%, and +4 is down to (1%)... and it keeps getting worse. Anyone one can tell getting above a +4 with limited mirage stones is next to impossible. Yet the cash shop sells Dragon orbs, which guarantee a refine up to the level of the orb. So to get the maximum refine (12) Your have to buy a Dragon Orb 1, Dragin Orb 2, Dragon Orb 3... all the way up. (Literally a few hundred dollars.) The difference on an item +3 (possible for free) or +8 (must buy orbs) is -noticeable.- Like +50 hp vs. +300 hp.

 

Then there is the gear. Gear doesn't drop from Instances, only pieces for it (both common and rare mats.) Rare mats have a drop rate down in the 1-2% and you need 2 of them... even worse... everyone needs 2 of them so there is constant fighting over who gets it. Of course, you can -buy- those rare mats... A bit expensive, but even at minimum wage you could still afford those rare mats in 1/20th the time it would take to farm them.

 

To tie into my earlier arguments, P2W takes the challenges out of the game and gives you the rewards. PWI didn't start that bad, they just got worse and worse, starting with just selling currency and a few exp boosts to finally selling gear you literally could not get by playing the game.

 

As I mention in the last paragraph, PWI didn't start out being such a horrible, greedy company (though they always had the refine system.) Probably about 6 months into me starting playing, they started selling these dollar packs, that held tokens and a chance at some high level gear. Then they removed a few features/buffed some bosses, and it became almost impossible to get that gear normally. Then they added reputation increasing items so they could "sell" rep gear... etc... Finally, they nerfed exp and added in super exp called hypers...

[Xekiestr]

Having played the f2p games that sell "indirectly" gear for money, I'd have to say -no-.

 

Would be great cash for BW, but if we as players care about the game, boycott any idea involving money for comms/consumables/boosters.

 

 

Edit: On a side note, offtopic I know but... Q.Q I'm so pissed I was too young/late for SWG. That game sounds awesome, way better than the sad theme park game we got here.

Actually.. im on the verge of asking for them to add Warzone Commendations in the cartel market.. because Battlemaster has become the new recruit armor, its worthless and no matter what i do i can barely dent people.. i doubt my Sith Juggernaut is a tank cause he dies in so few hits

[DarthOvertone]

Now the first +1 is like a 33% chance, but the second is 20%. If you -fail- a refine attempt, the item resets to zero. The third +1 (+3) is like 5%, and +4 is down to (1%)... and it keeps getting worse. Anyone one can tell getting above a +4 with limited mirage stones is next to impossible. Yet the cash shop sells Dragon orbs, which guarantee a refine up to the level of the orb. So to get the maximum refine (12) Your have to buy a Dragon Orb 1, Dragin Orb 2, Dragon Orb 3... all the way up. (Literally a few hundred dollars.) The difference on an item +3 (possible for free) or +8 (must buy orbs) is -noticeable.- Like +50 hp vs. +300 hp.

 

What you appear to be describing is content specifically designed to enrich the Store. I don't consider that P2W, but I do consider it repugnant. Let's hope that SWTOR doesn't go down the road of creating content in this manner, specifically to encourage the purchase of certain items in the Store.

 

PWI didn't start that bad, they just got worse and worse, starting with just selling currency and a few exp boosts to finally selling gear you literally could not get by playing the game.

 

This is always a danger. F2P is a slippery slope to be sure. It could lead to P2W very easily. I don't know what BW's marketers or F2P peeps think, but if they simply make decisions based on the convenience, not advantage mantra, they can safely navigate that slope.

[Jadescythe]

Actually.. im on the verge of asking for them to add Warzone Commendations in the cartel market.. because Battlemaster has become the new recruit armor, its worthless and no matter what i do i can barely dent people.. i doubt my Sith Juggernaut is a tank cause he dies in so few hits

 

This is more likely caused by the fact that half of the tank gear stats don't function in PVP. It is why hybrid tank specs are the true tanks and they wear DPS gear for the most part. On a side note, if your jugg is actually Rage spec, it is probably one of the least tank like specs in the game, I feel more tanky on my sorc.

[Nassik]

Actually.. I'm on the verge of asking for them to add Warzone Commendations in the cartel market.. because Battlemaster has become the new recruit armor, it's worthless and no matter what I do I can barely dent people.. I doubt my Sith Juggernaut is a tank cause he dies in so few hits

 

I have no problem with buying warzone/ ranked warzone comms through the cartel coin market. As was stated earlier, it would add convenience to the game, not an advantage. You're trading money for time and you can only catch up with the top gear. You can't surpass it. And if a player lacks the skill to properly compete then not even fully optimized War Hero is going to help anyone.